The Kings and Freeagency:

[Bricklayer]

You don't have to be a shot-blocker to be a good help defender. You have to be someone who rotates & switches when he is supposed to, and knows when to double-team and still get back to his own man quickly. I haven't seen anything that would make me think that Hayes doesn't do those things. Of course, it helps when you have someone who comes from the weak side and blocks a shot, but I would point out that Donte did that more than anyone for the Kings last season. Most of Dalembert's blocks always seemed to be against the man he was guarding. I would also point out that the biggest part of playing good team defense is TALKING, and that is something the Kings did very little of last season (including Dalembert).

Sounds good in theory.

Not the way it works in real life.

You can be a good help defender wihtout being a shotblocker, you can NEVER vbe a defensive anchor without being one. The only elite defnsive teams who have got it down without a major shotblocker have been teams with seriously all world perimeter defenders. Not just 1 either. But 2, 3 of them at a time amongst the best of the league at their positons. The why of it is very simple. The shotblocker protects EVERYBODY. He's by far the most important defensive player on the floor because he plays behind everybody and is back there still inbetween the pposing player in the hoop for every single one of his teamates. The greatest SG defender int he world is till out there at SG. He's not going to have any effect on the SF in the corner, the PF posting up on the other side of the lane, etc. The shotblocker has an effect on all of them. Changes their offense. Deters them with his mere presence. So you choices are a) get a single player, the shotblocker, to stand back there and make every single one of your other defenders better by deterring forays to the rim by opposing players. Or get 2,3,4 all elague type defenders out on the perieter so that they never need the help. It can be done the second way. But its FAR easier and more logical to do it the first way. Get your defensive anchor and have a lot more room for error on the perimeter.

 

[Uncia03]

Wow! It seems that suddenly the Free Agents frenzy came to a halt after NBA vetoed the Paul to LA trade.

BTW, Cleveland might amnesty Baron Davis and he might be taking his services to NY. Wow! If NY gets both Davis and Chandler. They could easily jump to the top of the East. WOW!

The only way Baron would wind up on the Knicks is if no-one under the cap bid for his services, and I would be very surprised to see something like that happen.

I think everyone is a little bit in shock after this CP3 development, but I do expect things to get crazy soon enough.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

The only way Baron would wind up on the Knicks is if no-one under the cap bid for his services, and I would be very surprised to see something like that happen.

I think everyone is a little bit in shock after this CP3 development, but I do expect things to get crazy soon enough.

Baron to the Lakers perhaps??

I wonder if the light in Geoff's office is still on, too?

 

[JB_kings]

I'm not going to join those whining about the NBA blocking the trade. It was going to set up the Lakers to get Paul now and create an exception to just about ice a deal for Howard. And on top of that they were going to reduce their salary enough to probably avoid paying a huge luxury tax.

But even with the Lakers being handed a major all star talent isn't what this is about in a one sided trade yet again. I for one get really frustrated watching players call the shots on going to big market teams while the small market teams are left to overpay mediocre players. Wasn't that a big reason why so many fans supportted this lockout so that teams like the Kings could compete for the name players? The vote wasn't even in on the new agreement and the Knicks and Lakers had major star players who weren't even free agents this year muscling their way to the bright lights and big cities.

So no tears will be shed here for the Lakers or the Chris Paul's out there. I see you guys trying to abuse the new CBA before the ink was even on the page - let alone still wet. I'm no fan of David Stern, but even he had to just say, knock this crap off!

 

[rainmaker]

I'm not going to join those whining about the NBA blocking the trade. It was going to set up the Lakers to get Paul now and create an exception to just about ice a deal for Howard. And on top of that they were going to reduce their salary enough to probably avoid paying a huge luxury tax.

But even with the Lakers being handed a major all star talent isn't what this is about in a one sided trade yet again. I for one get really frustrated watching players call the shots on going to big market teams while the small market teams are left to overpay mediocre players. Wasn't that a big reason why so many fans supportted this lockout so that teams like the Kings could compete for the name players? The vote wasn't even in on the new agreement and the Knicks and Lakers had major star players who weren't even free agents this year muscling their way to the bright lights and big cities.

So no tears will be shed here for the Lakers or the Chris Paul's out there. I see you guys trying to abuse the new CBA before the ink was even on the page - let alone still wet. I'm no fan of David Stern, but even he had to just say, knock this crap off!

This trade wasn't one sided at all. NO and Hou both came out great. The NBA knew what was happening for weeks, were updated, told Demps he could trade CP3, and then vlocked it for no reason.

This is horrible for the league. CP3 isn't muscling himself anywhere. He can go where he wants in 6 months. He's letting NO get A LOT for him, well they had, not anymore, instead of getting nothing in return. He's free to leave, just as Tyreke will be at some point. If Reke was going to go elsewhere, wouldn't you hope to get something like what NO got in return? Not to mention, the NBA can not dictate where players go. This was completely within the rules.

 

[JB_kings]

NO got enough talent to go from 1-3 lottery pick to 10-13. Not great for a team that would need a star. Plus lose the anchor talented star they could use to build and attract talent with. I'm sick of watching players hold so much sway over where they get to play. That is the bottom line. It's a few serious teams and the rest are supposed to spend star money for who?

We fight to keep the team here and then watch the Lakers choose which star lands in their laps. Players have too much control for a 30 team league. Should just close down about 24 cities and let the rest of the players try their luck elsewhere.

 

[Kings Faithful]

This trade wasn't one sided at all. NO and Hou both came out great. The NBA knew what was happening for weeks, were updated, told Demps he could trade CP3, and then vlocked it for no reason.

This is horrible for the league. CP3 isn't muscling himself anywhere. He can go where he wants in 6 months. He's letting NO get A LOT for him, well they had, not anymore, instead of getting nothing in return. He's free to leave, just as Tyreke will be at some point. If Reke was going to go elsewhere, wouldn't you hope to get something like what NO got in return? Not to mention, the NBA can not dictate where players go. This was completely within the rules.

Not as much as they should be getting. The problem isn't him wanting to leave... the problem is him saying he won't sign anywhere but New York or the Lakers which is ridiculous. That prevents the Hornets from getting any real rebuilding pieces. Instead they receive a couple of band aids that would only have kept them in mediocrity for the next few years. They would be better off letting Paul walk, putting in their dues as a trash team for 2 or 3 years and rebuilding through the draft.

 

[rainmaker]

NO got enough talent to go from 1-3 lottery pick to 10-13. Not great for a team that would need a star. Plus lose the anchor talented star they could use to build and attract talent with.

I don't know what this means. NO got great talent, and were quite happy.

I'm sick of watching players hold so much sway over where they get to play.

How much sway did Pau hold in this?

That is the bottom line. It's a few serious teams and the rest are supposed to spend star money for who?

CP3 isn't holding sway anywhere. He's a FA in 6 months. Free to leave. Now, does NO wants something, or nothing? What do you mean what are the rest supposed to do? Yes we're at a disadvantage, but we could have offered Reke or Cousins. GS could have offered Curry, which NO wanted. LAC could have offered Gordon, which NO wanted. LA gave up a star in Pau, and one of the most versatile, experienced played in the league.

We fight to keep the team here and then watch the Lakers choose which star lands in their laps. Players have too much control for a 30 team league. Should just close down about 24 cities and let the rest of the players try their luck elsewhere

He didn't land in their laps. It was NO which would have lost him, and NO which wanted players on LA's roster. NO also liked players on other rosters, as I mentioned, but those teams didn't want to pull the trigger. LA did. CP3 might not have signed an extension elsewhere, but why should he? It's his right to be a FA.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

This trade wasn't one sided at all. NO and Hou both came out great. The NBA knew what was happening for weeks, were updated, told Demps he could trade CP3, and then vlocked it for no reason.

This is horrible for the league. CP3 isn't muscling himself anywhere. He can go where he wants in 6 months. He's letting NO get A LOT for him, well they had, not anymore, instead of getting nothing in return. He's free to leave, just as Tyreke will be at some point. If Reke was going to go elsewhere, wouldn't you hope to get something like what NO got in return? Not to mention, the NBA can not dictate where players go. This was completely within the rules.

Legally they can if they own the team. They can stop a trade involving their team just like any owner can. The problem here is that the league owning a team in the first place is a huge conflict of interest and never should have happened.

 

[rainmaker]

Not as much as they should be getting. The problem isn't him wanting to leave... the problem is him saying he won't sign anywhere but New York or the Lakers which is ridiculous. That prevents the Hornets from getting any real rebuilding pieces. Instead they receive a couple of band aids that would only have kept them in mediocrity for the next few years. They would be better off letting Paul walk, putting in their dues as a trash team for 2 or 3 years and rebuilding through the draft.

Why should CP3 sign away 3-4 years of his career, and sign an extension, 6 months before being a FA, to play for a team he doesn't want to?

 

[JB_kings]

So a trade that gets the Lakers a star PG, a trade expection nealry twice what a MLE gets them and neatly sets them up for Howard all the while saving huge on salary is not a huge win for the Lakers? I mean not since Kobe and Shaq were neatly wrapped.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Its sooo quiet all of a sudden. Ok...so 12:01am(EST) is when the free for all starts??

Not, not until 2 PM EST tomorrow. Or technically today, if you're in EST.

Of course, with the smoke of the CP3 trainwreck rising to the heavens, tomorrow ought to be interesting enough even before the signing period begins.

 

[JB_kings]

Why should CP3 sign away 3-4 years of his career, and sign an extension, 6 months before being a FA, to play for a team he doesn't want to?

See that is the trick. Free agency pays less than extensions. So they force the team to sign and trade them or trade to a place they want to be. They want their cake and eat it too.

 

[rainmaker]

So a trade that gets the Lakers a star PG, a trade expection nealry twice what a MLE gets them and neatly sets them up for Howard all the while saving huge on salary is not a huge win for the Lakers? I mean not since Kobe and Shaq were neatly wrapped.

This isn't even about the Lakers. It's the small market NO, which got screwed. They did everything right. Demps kept the league informed the entire time this trade was brewing. Demps got the go ahead from the league to trade CP3. he got very good value in return, and now what? Can't trade CP3. That would be Stern dictating where he goes, picking and choosing. If CP3 walks in 6 months, NO is out Odom, Martin, Scola, Dragic, and a draft pick.

As for LA, CP3 hasn't shown he's the same since his knee injury. Kobe has maybe 2 years at a high level left. Dwight wants to go to NJ, as was just reported. No one knows if Bynum is even enough to get him. Doubt it. Bynum and Gasol, maybe. But Gasol wouldn't have been there. They'd have no depth.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Why should CP3 sign away 3-4 years of his career, and sign an extension, 6 months before being a FA, to play for a team he doesn't want to?

He shouldn't. He should play out the remainder of the current contract he signed and sign with a team that he likes and can afford him in FA. If he has to be traded he should have let the Hornets choose where he goes instead of limiting their choices. The way he chose to do it is going to turn the NBA into a 4 team league.

 

[Kings Faithful]

This isn't even about the Lakers. It's the small market NO, which got screwed. They did everything right. Demps kept the league informed the entire time this trade was brewing. Demps got the go ahead from the league to trade CP3. he got very good value in return, and now what? Can't trade CP3. That would be Stern dictating where he goes, picking and choosing. If CP3 walks in 6 months, NO is out Odom, Martin, Scola, Dragic, and a draft pick.

If they ever want to become relevant again, that was the best case scenario.

 

[rainmaker]

He shouldn't. He should play out the remainder of the current contract he signed and sign with a team that he likes and can afford him in FA. If he has to be traded he should have let the Hornets choose where he goes instead of limiting their choices. The way he chose to do it is going to turn the NBA into a 4 team league.

Oh ok, so NO is better without Odom, Scola, Martin, Dragic, and the draft pick? These is a much larger gap between NO next summer without CP3, or the guys in the trade, than with. So blocking this trade was great to keep it a 4 team league, if that's what you believe. NO is now far worse off. How does that help them close the gap with the "top 4"?

He's free to leave. If NO wants to trade him, that's up to them. CP3 doesn't need to help them by their rules. He doesn't need to sign an extension with a team he doesn't want to play for, to help out his former team. It was NO which decided not to let him walk for nothing, and decided to trade him. CP3 didn't trade himself.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Oh ok, so NO is better without Odom, Scola, Martin, Dragic, and the draft pick? These is a much larger gap between NO next summer without CP3, or the guys in the trade, than with. So blocking this trade was great to keep it a 4 team league, if that's what you believe. NO is now far worse off. How does that help them close the gap with the "top 4"?

He's free to leave. If NO wants to trade him, that's up to them. CP3 doesn't need to help them by their rules. He doesn't need to sign an extension with a team he doesn't want to play for, to help out his former team. It was NO which decided not to let him walk for nothing, and decided to trade him. CP3 didn't trade himself.

I feel so bad for Chris Paul because he doesn't get to play where he wants...boo hoo... 29 other teams would love to throw millions of dollars at him... but that just isn't enough.

 

[JB_kings]

This isn't even about the Lakers. It's the small market NO, which got screwed. They did everything right. Demps kept the league informed the entire time this trade was brewing. Demps got the go ahead from the league to trade CP3. he got very good value in return, and now what? Can't trade CP3. That would be Stern dictating where he goes, picking and choosing. If CP3 walks in 6 months, NO is out Odom, Martin, Scola, Dragic, and a draft pick.

As for LA, CP3 hasn't shown he's the same since his knee injury. Kobe has maybe 2 years at a high level left. Dwight wants to go to NJ, as was just reported. No one knows if Bynum is even enough to get him. Doubt it. Bynum and Gasol, maybe. But Gasol wouldn't have been there. They'd have no depth.

NO was going to get three complimentry players in Odom, Martin and Scola. Never has a trade worked out for any team that has traded one big star for a few good players. Odom is a compliment to a star. Martin's shortcomings are very well known around here and the Rockets were not sad over Scola leaving.

 

[rainmaker]

CP3 wasn't helping them at all. He was screwing them over so he can guarantee he gets to play where he wants. If he wants to play with the Lakers so bad he can sign with them for MLE next season.

Sorry, but you're not even making sense. He walks, they get nothing. By signing an ext with LA, they got all those players in return. So saying he didn't help them makes no sense.

You're third sentence is complete speculation. You have no idea where he'd sign as a FA.

You seem so caught up in be pissed CP3 is going to be a FA, you haven't looked at the bigger picture. You're the only one I've seen saying Stern nixing a deal like this is good for the league. Every story or tweet I've seen from a known journalist or NBA executive, all realize how bad this is for the league. How scary of a precedent it sets. Yet you appear to be more concerned with disliking a completely legal trade, under this system, which the league office new about all along. What Stern did has far more ramifications for the league, then this proposed trade would have.

 

[rainmaker]

NO was going to get three complimentry players in Odom, Martin and Scola. Never has a trade worked out for any team that has traded one big star for a few good players. Odom is a compliment to a star. Martin's shortcomings are very well known around here and the Rockets were not sad over Scola leaving.

Your opinion of the quality of players is not relevant to what Stern just did.

 

[JB_kings]

If Demps was allowed to do his job without CP3 holding the "I won't resign with you" threat as insurance he goes where he wants, then Demps can trade him for young talent that has some star potential and some nice draft picks. The proper way to rebuild a team considering you might just get a star player in the draft.

But being forced to pretty much deal with the Lakers older veterans, Demps had very little choice. The best was bringing in a third team and getting rid of at least one of the 31 year old players in return for slightly younger, but even less talented. Although Demps did great getting a draft pick from the Rockets. Can you imagine what he could have gotten if the menu had a dozen teams vying for CP3 instead of a few?

This is why I was rooting for the owners in the CBA to get their desire for the hard cap. This type of nonsense would be off the table and NO could have dealt with more teams and CP3 would have been just as well off financially, just not in the big city.

 

[Tetsujin]

This isn't even about the Lakers. It's the small market NO, which got screwed. They did everything right. Demps kept the league informed the entire time this trade was brewing. Demps got the go ahead from the league to trade CP3. he got very good value in return, and now what? Can't trade CP3. That would be Stern dictating where he goes, picking and choosing. If CP3 walks in 6 months, NO is out Odom, Martin, Scola, Dragic, and a draft pick.

As for LA, CP3 hasn't shown he's the same since his knee injury. Kobe has maybe 2 years at a high level left. Dwight wants to go to NJ, as was just reported. No one knows if Bynum is even enough to get him. Doubt it. Bynum and Gasol, maybe. But Gasol wouldn't have been there. They'd have no depth.

To be fair, small market NO got screwed by their owners (who vetoed the trade) not the league. Their owners (the league) vetoed the trade much as the Maloofs would be able to veto a trade.

 

[rainmaker]

To be fair, small market NO got screwed by their owners (who vetoed the trade) not the league. Their owners (the league) vetoed the trade much as the Maloofs would be able to veto a trade.

That's not what this says:

"The owners half-pushed this through, and Stern took it the rest of the way," a league source involved in nixed trade told Y! Sports.

Where'd you hear it was the owners, and not Stern who had final say?

 

[Uncia03]

You seem so caught up in be pissed CP3 is going to be a FA, you haven't looked at the bigger picture. You're the only one I've seen saying Stern nixing a deal like this is good for the league. Every story or tweet I've seen from a known journalist or NBA executive, all realize how bad this is for the league. How scary of a precedent it sets. Yet you appear to be more concerned with disliking a completely legal trade, under this system, which the league office new about all along. What Stern did has far more ramifications for the league, then this proposed trade would have.

First, I agree that this decision by Stern could end up hurting the league. It could set a bad precedent, which has consequences we can't begin to imagine.

At the same time, if this deal went through, the odds were very good that Howard would end up in L.A. All he'd have to do is tell Otis Smith that the only team he'd resign for is the Lakers. If he does that, then no other team is going to offer Otis Smith the assets needed to make a deal.
So Smith either makes a trade with the Lakers to get Bynum, or lets Howard walk, and then Howard joins the Lakers as a FA, because the Lakers would have the cap-space to do so.

So here's the question for you.

Which is worse for the league:
1.) Stern making this decision to prevent a domino effect which would land the best Center and best PG on the biggest market team at the expense of the majority of the owners and markets
OR
2.) Using the League's position to keep their star player until an owner can be found.

Now, obviously I think it's worse for the league for the Lakers to end up with CP3 and Howard. However, I don't think it's a slam dunk.
I think the decision Stern made could end up being very bad for the league, but I don't know for certain.

So neither situation is good, but I can guarantee you that the majority of the owners are glad that Stern made the decision he did.

As to the situation with the Hornets: At first I felt bad for them, but then I changed my mind.
I don't think that Odom/Martin/Scola can help the Hornets realistically compete for a championship.
So all this does is keep them in the middle-of-the-pack, sort of like the Atlanta Hawks, and that's not a good place to be.

Odom/Martin/Scola are all fine players, but they are going to cost 30 million next season, and Odom is the only one of them that can be let go after this season, so it kills any flexibility.

I personally think the Hornets would be better off to see if CP3 is truly willing to walk, and if he does, then scrap the team, get bad really fast, and try to start again by winning in the draft.

I think about the Kings, and if it were Tyreke that was leaving, and we didn't even have Cousins on the team, I'd rather have an instant drop to mediocrity to win in the draft, rather than getting assets that will keep me hovering around the play-offs while killing my cap-space.

That's my personal perspective, but I absolutely understand if someone says they'd rather have those assets.

All I can say is that today's developments were shocking, and tomorrow should be absolutely insane.

 

[rainmaker]

Pretty much says it all.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/sto...hris-paul-trade-mistake-outrageous-proportion

 

[BMiller52]

Pretty much says it all.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/sto...hris-paul-trade-mistake-outrageous-proportion

So Stern hates the lakers now? I didnt even read the article... just saying

 

[jcwkings]

Friday will be an interesting day, I doubt we hear much from the Kings other than the Hayes signing, Still hoping for a Dally suprise to go along with a trade to unload one of Thompson or Hickson to bring in a veteran point gaurd.

 

[bajaden]

First, I agree that this decision by Stern could end up hurting the league. It could set a bad precedent, which has consequences we can't begin to imagine.

At the same time, if this deal went through, the odds were very good that Howard would end up in L.A. All he'd have to do is tell Otis Smith that the only team he'd resign for is the Lakers. If he does that, then no other team is going to offer Otis Smith the assets needed to make a deal.
So Smith either makes a trade with the Lakers to get Bynum, or lets Howard walk, and then Howard joins the Lakers as a FA, because the Lakers would have the cap-space to do so.

So here's the question for you.

Which is worse for the league:
1.) Stern making this decision to prevent a domino effect which would land the best Center and best PG on the biggest market team at the expense of the majority of the owners and markets
OR
2.) Using the League's position to keep their star player until an owner can be found.

Now, obviously I think it's worse for the league for the Lakers to end up with CP3 and Howard. However, I don't think it's a slam dunk.
I think the decision Stern made could end up being very bad for the league, but I don't know for certain.

So neither situation is good, but I can guarantee you that the majority of the owners are glad that Stern made the decision he did.

As to the situation with the Hornets: At first I felt bad for them, but then I changed my mind.
I don't think that Odom/Martin/Scola can help the Hornets realistically compete for a championship.
So all this does is keep them in the middle-of-the-pack, sort of like the Atlanta Hawks, and that's not a good place to be.

Odom/Martin/Scola are all fine players, but they are going to cost 30 million next season, and Odom is the only one of them that can be let go after this season, so it kills any flexibility.

I personally think the Hornets would be better off to see if CP3 is truly willing to walk, and if he does, then scrap the team, get bad really fast, and try to start again by winning in the draft.

I think about the Kings, and if it were Tyreke that was leaving, and we didn't even have Cousins on the team, I'd rather have an instant drop to mediocrity to win in the draft, rather than getting assets that will keep me hovering around the play-offs while killing my cap-space.

That's my personal perspective, but I absolutely understand if someone says they'd rather have those assets.

All I can say is that today's developments were shocking, and tomorrow should be absolutely insane.

\

I agree completely. Stern was being pressured by the owners, and by the way, each owner, owns 1/30th of the Hornets, and the owners are the league. I think Stern would have liked to step in sooner and put a stop to the deal, but he wasn't about to do anything until the new CBA was ratified. Which became official today. Can you imagine what would have happened if he had done this a day earlier.

The entire lockout was about trying to put an end to what was about to happen. And for a team thats owned by the league to be the main culprit in the deal, was frankly embarrassing. I'm sure Paul will take the whole matter to court and sue, but I doubt there's much he can do. There's no doubt that it has a heavy handed look to it, but in reality, its no different than if a team like the Knicks were to suddenly change its mind and back out of a deal at the last moment.

 

[Bricklayer]

Pretty much says it all.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/sto...hris-paul-trade-mistake-outrageous-proportion

Silly article. I'm not a member over there, but it almsot made me want to signup just to deconstruct that author's argument in the comments section. Quite obviously as owners of the Hornets the NBA can veto any trade they want for "basketball reasons". Just as obviously, as non-owners of the Magic they can't veto a trade involving the Magic with that excuse.