Kingster
Hall of Famer
Well now, remember that once upon atiem guys stayed 4 years, and Hakeem was a rookie once too
...and there was a guy named Kareem something or other...
The Frontcourt
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
...and there was a guy named Kareem something or other...
mr. moustache
Bench
His post-up game is incredibly impressive for a rookie. Given the skill, it's not surprising his biggest weakness was trying to do WAY too much and turning it over. I expected a great post-up game, but his face-up game surprised me quite a bit. I think he likes making those guard moves a little too much, but watching him go from the 3-pt line through 4 defenders and finish with a dunk is hilarious/awesome.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
When people are talking about the roster for next year, especally the deeeeep part of the roster .. I think we are forgetting about the draft.
Under contract for next season *Not Options*
Evans
Udrih
Garcia
Cousins
Thompson
Casspi
Greene
Whiteside
Assuming we sign Dally and Thornton, that puts us at 10 players under contract.
Then adding two from the draft puts us at 12.
Jermaine Taylor and Pooh Jeter have really cheap team options for what they do. I would like to keep Taylor around for sure with his cheap contract .. We know we can plug him in if Reke or Thornton ever get injured and he'll do a decent job.
Then you have Darnell who is ALREADY back in Sacramento working out, so I think there is a good chance we bring him back too.
Bringing back all those players, plus two draft picks would fill up our roster at 15 players. I would think Pooh Jeter would be the last man right now ... so lets say we dont pick up his option and use his roster spot for the big FA SF (Prince or AK or whoever) That still leaves us at 15 ..
Which honestly, to me, is fine. If all we do is add the veteran SF and fill those other wholes in the draft .. I'm on board. You can easily fill up the Pooh spot with the second or first round pick ( lets say we pick up Kemba or Knight ) .. I also think this would be a good year draft an international player and keep him over there for a year or so. Looking at the top of this draft .. Vesely, Kanter, Biyumbo, Valaciunas, Moneteijunas ect .. this could be the best class of international players in a long long time.
Anyways ... I just want to temper everyones expectations for those who expect a massive roster overhaul, unless a few trades take place. And with a lockout pending, making any deals while the league isnt running is impossible.
Under contract for next season *Not Options*
Evans
Udrih
Garcia
Cousins
Thompson
Casspi
Greene
Whiteside
Assuming we sign Dally and Thornton, that puts us at 10 players under contract.
Then adding two from the draft puts us at 12.
Jermaine Taylor and Pooh Jeter have really cheap team options for what they do. I would like to keep Taylor around for sure with his cheap contract .. We know we can plug him in if Reke or Thornton ever get injured and he'll do a decent job.
Then you have Darnell who is ALREADY back in Sacramento working out, so I think there is a good chance we bring him back too.
Bringing back all those players, plus two draft picks would fill up our roster at 15 players. I would think Pooh Jeter would be the last man right now ... so lets say we dont pick up his option and use his roster spot for the big FA SF (Prince or AK or whoever) That still leaves us at 15 ..
Which honestly, to me, is fine. If all we do is add the veteran SF and fill those other wholes in the draft .. I'm on board. You can easily fill up the Pooh spot with the second or first round pick ( lets say we pick up Kemba or Knight ) .. I also think this would be a good year draft an international player and keep him over there for a year or so. Looking at the top of this draft .. Vesely, Kanter, Biyumbo, Valaciunas, Moneteijunas ect .. this could be the best class of international players in a long long time.
Anyways ... I just want to temper everyones expectations for those who expect a massive roster overhaul, unless a few trades take place. And with a lockout pending, making any deals while the league isnt running is impossible.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well now, remember that once upon atiem guys stayed 4 years, and Hakeem was a rookie once too
At Demarcus's age has to be very rare though. Wish he could jump, but as is he needs to be studying lots of tape on guys like McHale and Randolph.
He needs to spend the summer going one on one with Al Jefferson. If he could lose another 10 pounds and get stronger in the process, he could probably pick up another inch or two in elevation. He's definitely get a little quicker. The kid has a tremendous upside if he works hard on the right things.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yeah, I think in the second round, any pick we make should be on an international player that we can leave over there for a year or two. Thats unless someone that we really love slides into the second round. Like last year with Whiteside.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yes, but those teams were built in a way to be able to handle that. I question if the situation with these Kings is as seamless a fit. The Spurs and Bulls were title contenders/championship level teams before they had those guys in those spots.
I'm totally down for Daly/Cousins and I thought they should have been starting together from day one, but I see the positives of Cousins at C and the potential to possibly upgrade in some other areas in terms of skill set within the front court itself. My whole argument comes down to the bottom line. How much does re-signing Dalembert alter the potential for future changes should it not work in the long run? Even though the paper may say "yes", I don't know if dotting the i's and crossing the t's on a 24 win team is the right move unless the numbers are fair and the player will maintain a level of league wide attraction as an asset should any sort of lack of success materialize.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I'd like to bring Darnell back. I really think some of the names on that list don't return to Sac next year, major name is Casspi, I think he's moved at some point either in a bigger sign and trade or maybe even on draft night.
I personally don't think this team needs a major roster overhaul. Evans, Thornton, and Cousins is a great foundation, not to mention the draft pick which could be used in a trade at some point. I still think Petrie is going to be shuffling some bodies and filling that hole at SF with an experienced player like Battier, Prince, or Chandler.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Some scrub named Tim Duncan. Maybe a benchwarmer like Kareem or Hakeem.
I think one thing that Cousins has is really good touch. If you watch the two videos posted, you'll see a lot of his moves, other than his spin moves, actually have him taking shots while falling away/off balance. He has the ability to still get those to drop, but to be really good and consistent down low you need to be balanced. Cousins does have the footwork as well, he just needs to work more on feeling when to make his move, reposting for better position, and like you said getting more elevation. Once he gets those down, is able to establish better position before his move and has better balance, he's going to be very very difficult to stop down low.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
What's keeping Demarcus' FG% so low? Too many midrange jumpshots? Too many circus shots? Too many shots altogether?
Well for starters he's a rookie. I think he also takes a fair amount of shots. When you have a guy that isn't the most physically conditioned athlete, going against a higher level of competition night in and night out for the first time in his life, taking a lot of shots, you're likely to end up with a lower than desirable FG%. Nothing extraordinary or unexpected.
Chupacabra
Starter
this team definitely needs a player that satisfies the role that Dalembert is currently in. With that being said I wouldnt want to replace him with a smaller, less defensively inclined player like Nene. I also wouldnt want Cousins to have to share touches in the post with Nene. Dalembert needs to be resigned. I would also REALLY like to see Whiteside get a good share of time on the court. This team with all of its bursting potential is still a 25 win team. Theres no reason to bench a young, promising player on a 25 win team. I hope to see Whiteside on the court for a decent amount of time next season.
ParniValjak
All-Star
If we re-sign Dalembert and Thornton, and solidify that SF position by signing someone like Kirilenko or Prince, then this is not a 25 win team and the minutes for Whiteside become even more rare unless he drastcally improves in the off-season
If the things happen, this team goes into the win now mode and minute for Whiteside are not available on those sort of teams! Having said that, in blow outs he should be getting minutes
mr. moustache
Bench
He takes a lot of bad shots. A lot of the time it starts with him at the elbow, or even further away from the basket. That % would go up if the entire team focused on not giving him the ball really far away from the basket, or emphasized reposting him.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
It's a bit more remarkable than that; amongst rookie big men that take a bunch of shots, he is near the bottom of the historical pack.
http://bit.ly/iy2y4w
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Many of those players had 4 years college experience unless you think that is meaningless. I'm not ready to give up on Cousins yet. I think we should keep him despite this inadequacy.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Real simple. Shot selection. He had a tendecy to force shots at times when there was nothing there. Not at all unusual for a young player. Its a learning experience, and part of it is learning what you can, and can't do. I thought he improved greatly toward the end of the season. I haven't looked up the stats, but I would bet his shooting percentage was far better the last couple of months of the season than the first couple of months.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Yes Cousins takes bad shots, and yes part of the blame is on him. I completely agree with Mac on his balance. It must improve, and no doubt will. Getting shots off isn't a problem, it's remaining on balance when taking the shot. Increased core and leg strength will do wonders for Cousins.
The other aspect of the poor shots he takes is his teammates. How many times did Cousins or Dally get the ball 18 ft from the basket with 3 secs left on the shot clock? How many times did Cousins get the ball, and his teammates didn't cut, or move into the open gaps? Naturally by maturing Cousins will get better shots, but also as soon as a few guys on this team not named Beno improve their off the ball play, things will open up for Cousins. Tyreke should improve their, as he really has no where to go but up in terms of off the ball play, and Thornton is decent right now(cutting off the ball), although better at spotting up. One problem is not one of our sf's moves well off the ball. Donte showed glimpses, but Omri/Cisco just fail completely when it comes to slashing from the weekside, or cutting into an open gap.
But I'm not worried about Cousins shooting %.
The other aspect of the poor shots he takes is his teammates. How many times did Cousins or Dally get the ball 18 ft from the basket with 3 secs left on the shot clock? How many times did Cousins get the ball, and his teammates didn't cut, or move into the open gaps? Naturally by maturing Cousins will get better shots, but also as soon as a few guys on this team not named Beno improve their off the ball play, things will open up for Cousins. Tyreke should improve their, as he really has no where to go but up in terms of off the ball play, and Thornton is decent right now(cutting off the ball), although better at spotting up. One problem is not one of our sf's moves well off the ball. Donte showed glimpses, but Omri/Cisco just fail completely when it comes to slashing from the weekside, or cutting into an open gap.
But I'm not worried about Cousins shooting %.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I've pointed out before that at Kentucky, Cousins always posted up within 5 or 6 feet from the basket. Much easier to make a quick move to the basket from that distance. Obviously the Kings are trying to take advantage of his passing ability, thus they have him setting up 10 to 14 feet from the basket. The problem is, if no one becomes available for the pass, and the clock is down to 5 or 6 seconds, now Cousins has to do something with the ball. Too many times it resulted in a forced shot.
The best remedy of course is to get the ball into Cousins earlier in the set. If nothing's there, then there's still time to move the ball eleswhere, or to do a reset. Long term, I think familiarity and experience of playing together will solve a lot of the problems. Some of these things just take time. Its all about recognition, and knowing what to do next is somethings not there, and all in 24 seconds.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't think anyone is implying that we give up on Cousins, or get rid of him. Most are just questioning his mistakes, and why he makes them. Nothing wrong with that. Makes for good basketball disscussion.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I was very impressed with Thornton's off the ball movement, and I thought it helped Cousins a lot. Quite a few of Cousins passes to cutters were to Thornton. Unfortunately, Beno and Thornton were the main two guys that were doing the cutting. Thornton also returned the favor to Cousins a few times.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Good basketball discussion was indeed what I was going for. Of course I'm not going to write off Cousins as a loss based on one weakness he has as a rookie. But Cousins has been compared to Shaq, and Duncan, and Webber, and I think we need some historical perspective here. Those guys were at the top in FG% at this age, Cousins is near the bottom.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Mad D
Starter
Except for the fact all 3 were still in college at Cousins age.
They were all still the same age of 20 though. I think Cousin's will be fine and will at least turn out to be a bigger Zach Randolph in his best years.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Not getting those and 1 opportunities. He got screwed on so many calls last year it just wasn't even funny. Most superstars get those bad misses wiped away and 2 shots at the line instead.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Experience isn't everything. It's the only thing.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
/sarcasm on my part. I didn't see his shooting percentage as a problem given his age and didn't have the energy to make an argument. What exactly do people expect of a 20 year old? I'm afraid I'm simple minded and don't analyze specifics. I just look at his age and say "so what?" If the reason was to stimulate a conversation about the inadequacies of a 20 year old, that's fine. I just took it to it's absurd extreme. Comparing him to all the players to come before him proves nothing to me. I still don't understand the point of comparing him to guys with 4 years college experience playing in different systems in different eras. If the point was saying that he was no good, I totally reject that.
What was the point of that comparison? I still don't get the point and none of the answers were directed at the post. What was the poster of the original note trying to imply? To me, it sounded like he was saying that compared to all the players that came before him, he was no good.
To further the comparison, let's compare him to all 20 year olds, 6'9" and taller who took a lot of shots. Ahead of him is:
Shaq
Chris Webber
Brook Lopez
Michael Beasley
Amare Stoudamire
Cliff Robinson
Joe Smith
SAR and
Lamar Odom
He was better than Kevin Durant.
What does this prove? I don't think it means he'll be better than Kevin Durant. If that is accepted as truth, what do the other comparisons mean? Maybe not as much as implied.
We could further break it down to compare him only with 20 year olds on a team that sucked but I'm not going to go that far. I think my point is made without that absurdity. Certainly the team Cousins is on and what they asked him to do effected his percentage. There were times with Reke's injuries and the absence of Thornton when he was asked to do more than he was capable of doing.
The other players were 21-26 although the largest percentage were 21 to 23 or the typical college graduation ages of years gone by.
In defense of the poster, he/she went to a lot of work and it certainly made a few of us think and that's really the point, I hope.
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't really like player comparisons. Each player is an individual and should be judged on his own merits. I think its fine to take a slice of players that have been drafted into the NBA that played the same position and see what their first year looked like in comparison to Cousins first year. But please, does it have to be Shaq, Duncan, or even Wilt. I understand the concept and the dream. Sure, I'd love it if he turned out with a similar career, and he may. But thats comparing him to HOF players, and thats hardly fair.
Its my hope that 15 years from now, someone will be comparing another 19 year old player to Cousins, and hoping he turns out as well.
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