The beginning - the never-ending question...point guard or two guard?

[Nikefutbolero]

yup, not a 1..

 

[Nikefutbolero]

another bad pass into traffic which resulted in a TO..he just doesn't have the vision and before you guys say "he's a rookie", it's not something you can learn..

 

[hrdboild]

Oh come on. Three posts in a row? He's forcing passes. That is something rookies tend to do. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have "the vision". He's looked like a rookie so far, a very talented one, but still a rookie. There'll be less of those mistakes as he gets older. He doesn't have to be Steve Nash to be effective. There's more than one way to win a basketball game.

 

[Nighthawk1]

Oh come on. Three posts in a row? He's forcing passes. That is something rookies tend to do. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have "the vision". He's looked like a rookie so far, a very talented one, but still a rookie. There'll be less of those mistakes as he gets older. He doesn't have to be Steve Nash to be effective. There's more than one way to win a basketball game.

I don't think you really need to defend him against the couple haters left. Everyone knows what he is by now, and how old the kid is... Anyone who doesn't can be ignored

 

[VF21]

another bad pass into traffic which resulted in a TO..he just doesn't have the vision and before you guys say "he's a rookie", it's not something you can learn..

Yeah, he made bad passes into traffic. All that shows is that they don't have the ability to come from behind and win against EXPERIENCED teams. That doesn't make Tyreke anything other than what he is ... a very talented young player who is learning every single night and getting better with every passing game.

There were a plethora of mistakes made out there tonight. I cannot see how you can single Evans out. He's a rookie; he's going to make mistakes. Deal with it.

 

[M_Barragan]

Guess there is no room for improvement in a players game 10 games into his career... makes sense.

 

[bajaden]

Guess there is no room for improvement in a players game 10 games into his career... makes sense.

There are people that live only in the here and now. In this instance in time. And then there are those that have vision. The ability to see beyond tomorrow and the next day. The former fight to get in line to follow the Latter.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Tyreke is better than Crawford here, today.

(And watch this: Tyreke may be better than Kevin, here, today.)

I've tried to explain the class break before. Its distinct, but hard to quantify. There are players that matter. Complete players that play with force and bend the entire other team's strategy when facing them. And then there are guys who are just scorers. And the just scorers don't matter. Never have. Never will. Tyreke's a rookie, he's going to have messy nights, he could stil conceivably not pan out (that conception getting less likely by the game). But he's got the it Jamal Crawford never in his best season had. He already matters in a way Crawford never once did. He's the straw. A messy, rookie straw with some 5-17 nights ahead of him. But the straw. And its just a class break. Up ahead, Roy, Pierce etc. Behind: everybody else.

Agree 100%. And I also think that the PG v SG argument is overrated. Most offenses nowadays have a players who handles the offense in the half court set. Kobe, Wade, Roy, Lebron, etc. might not technically be PGs, but they are the primary ball handlers for the offense. So who cares what Yahoo Fantasy Sports position Tyreke has, he appears to be skilled enough and unselfish enough to be our primary ball handler when it counts. A much better discussion at this point would be what kind of back court mate we should put beside him and not what official designation he deserves for his "position."

 

[Gary]

This whole thread is useless.
Why there is always a need to trade someone.
There is a plenty minutes to play Evans, Martin and Udrih.

There is a thing called chemistry which might factor into the equation with this lineup. Kinda sucks but it could be true.. Time will tell whether we have to move Martin or not

 

[Gary]

Agree 100%. And I also think that the PG v SG argument is overrated. Most offenses nowadays have a players who handles the offense in the half court set. Kobe, Wade, Roy, Lebron, etc. might not technically be PGs, but they are the primary ball handlers for the offense. So who cares what Yahoo Fantasy Sports position Tyreke has, he appears to be skilled enough and unselfish enough to be our primary ball handler when it counts. A much better discussion at this point would be what kind of back court mate we should put beside him and not what official designation he deserves for his "position."

I agree with you.

I will add this.. You give Evans total PG duties and I am willing to bet he's not as effective as he would be with another ball handler in there sharing some of the duties. Kobe has Fisher, Wade/Chalmers, Lebron/Williams, Roy/Blake. Most of those guards aren't anything spectacular which I was saying earlier they don't need to be since you have a guy that is the basic focus... As long as they can hit a couple shots here and there and bring the ball up then it's golden.

 

[c-webb1s#1]

I agree with you.

I will add this.. You give Evans total PG duties and I am willing to bet he's not as effective as he would be with another ball handler in there sharing some of the duties. Kobe has Fisher, Wade/Chalmers, Lebron/Williams, Roy/Blake. Most of those guards aren't anything spectacular which I was saying earlier they don't need to be since you have a guy that is the basic focus... As long as they can hit a couple shots here and there and bring the ball up then it's golden.

But you dont realize!!Wade makes Chalmers seem better,Lebron makes Williams better...Tyreke makes Beno better??

Like what Brick was saying is some certain players have "it", certain qualities that change the way the team plays for the better!
Call it confidence or arrogance or whatever,those certain players have it!
Its amazing to see how one player like Tyreke can inspire the confidence of so many others like Beno,JT,K9,Donte....or well honestly just the entire Kings team 0_0!

It doesnt matter what position he play,point guard or shooting guard he's gonna matter!It's only a question of what position he plays better at!And if you ask me.....i think it doesn't matter!!

He's a special player,we should all be glad we got him.He's going to cause a lot of players headaches this year : )

 

[fnordius]

It doesnt matter what position he play,point guard or shooting guard he's gonna matter!It's only a question of what position he plays better at!And if you ask me.....i think it doesn't matter!!

Nobody's saying (any more) that it matters what you call him. Whatever you call him, he will play about like Tyreke Evans. Lets just call his position the Tyreke Evans position.

Now, what can you do when you when you have a guy playing the Tyreke Evans position? Well, you can't have 4 other guys who are playing the Yinka Dare position, or even the Peja Stojakovic position. You need more balance than that. With the roster we have now, it's unclear whether we can afford anyone at the Kevin Martin position. We'll know better in 3 months or so. Until then, it's something to talk about.

 

[M_Barragan]

We need someone that can do what beno is doing. But we need a serviceable perimiter defender and someone in the 6'5" range that will force a mismatch in the backcourt.

Easier said then done to find that player... but I have to assume that is the FO's plan. If Tyreke can learn to position his team and space the ball then it won't matter and someone like Martin would work fine as he is an excellent spot up shooter.

 

[AriesMar27]

We need someone that can do what beno is doing. But we need a serviceable perimiter defender and someone in the 6'5" range that will force a mismatch in the backcourt.

Easier said then done to find that player... but I have to assume that is the FO's plan. If Tyreke can learn to position his team and space the ball then it won't matter and someone like Martin would work fine as he is an excellent spot up shooter.

ugh... so you are basing all of his future success on the hope that he will always be guarded by a pg? if we can find another 6'5 combo guard player wouldnt he just have the same advantage that you are trying to give evans? if thats the case, what makes evans so special? we would need 2 tyreke's to make our tyreke work out.... actually we would need a player better than tyreke, we would need a tyreke with a legit outside shot to force opposing teams to put their sg on tyreke 2.0 so that the original tyreke can beast on their pg.

thats hella lame....

like i said when we drafted him, wade couldnt do it, neither could lebron... what makes you think that it will work for him unless you have 2 of them?

 

[Bricklayer]

ugh... so you are basing all of his future success on the hope that he will always be guarded by a pg? if we can find another 6'5 combo guard player wouldnt he just have the same advantage that you are trying to give evans? if thats the case, what makes evans so special? we would need 2 tyreke's to make our tyreke work out.... actually we would need a player better than tyreke, we would need a tyreke with a legit outside shot to force opposing teams to put their sg on tyreke 2.0 so that the original tyreke can beast on their pg.

thats hella lame....

like i said when we drafted him, wade couldnt do it, neither could lebron... what makes you think that it will work for him unless you have 2 of them?

Silly post.

1) you have to get off the Evans thing and quick. Your compatriots have all wisely backed off and either gone quiet on the topic or settled for casting aspersions, you would be well advised to do the same at the risk of looking as silly as the LeBron bashers pushed into smaller and smaller corners for their snipes.

2) a major part of basketball is identifying and creating mismatches. Tyreke is almost unguardable by any PG in the league. If we can pair hm up with somebody with too much size for a PG as well, we will have an enormous advantage on every team in the league. Its just good basketball.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Silly post.

1) you have to get off the Evans thing and quick. Your compatriots have all wisely backed off and either gone quiet on the topic or settled for casting aspersions, you would be well advised to do the same at the risk of looking as silly as the LeBron bashers pushed into smaller and smaller corners for their snipes.

2) a major part of basketball is identifying and creating mismatches. Tyreke is almost unguardable by any PG in the league. If we can pair hm up with somebody with too much size for a PG as well, we will have an enormous advantage on every team in the league. Its just good basketball.

See, he's not the one who starts these things...

 

[AriesMar27]

Silly post.

1) you have to get off the Evans thing and quick. Your compatriots have all wisely backed off and either gone quiet on the topic or settled for casting aspersions, you would be well advised to do the same at the risk of looking as silly as the LeBron bashers pushed into smaller and smaller corners for their snipes.

2) a major part of basketball is identifying and creating mismatches. Tyreke is almost unguardable by any PG in the league. If we can pair hm up with somebody with too much size for a PG as well, we will have an enormous advantage on every team in the league. Its just good basketball.

1) i never said anything negative about evans, im a huge lebron fan and i knew that he wouldnt be a pg. i knew that he would be a great player as long as he didnt get injured. which was one of the things that kept tmac and vince carter from becoming top tier franchise players like kobe and now lebron.

2) i was merely responding to a post and made a vaild point. in order to have evans in position to have an advantage against pgs he will need a player better than he is to leave the opposing teams pg on evans. no pg can guard him, but they can all guard beno... they will be able to guard every pg we put next to evans not named chris paul or deron williams. we would need another evans or a sg like joe johnson or brandon roy who can split the ball handling duties. it wasnt an attack on evans just an observation. if you(or anyone) can think of another way to keep the opposing pg on evans i would love to hear it. because with the way this team is set up an opposing pg will never have to guard evans unless martin is in the game with him. which means that evans will be the only ballhandler/distributer on the court for us. last time i checked, both roy and johnson were better than evans... so how is my post silly? outside of the tyreke 2.0...

See, he's not the one who starts these things...

and you're right... i didnt start anything.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I agree with you.

I will add this.. You give Evans total PG duties and I am willing to bet he's not as effective as he would be with another ball handler in there sharing some of the duties. Kobe has Fisher, Wade/Chalmers, Lebron/Williams, Roy/Blake. Most of those guards aren't anything spectacular which I was saying earlier they don't need to be since you have a guy that is the basic focus... As long as they can hit a couple shots here and there and bring the ball up then it's golden.

Your probably right. If for no other reason than to save their energy, most of the primary ball handlers have another guard who brings the ball up.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

1)

2) i was merely responding to a post and made a vaild point. in order to have evans in position to have an advantage against pgs he will need a player better than he is to leave the opposing teams pg on evans. no pg can guard him, but they can all guard beno... they will be able to guard every pg we put next to evans not named chris paul or deron williams. we would need another evans or a sg like joe johnson or brandon roy who can split the ball handling duties. it wasnt an attack on evans just an observation. if you(or anyone) can think of another way to keep the opposing pg on evans i would love to hear it. because with the way this team is set up an opposing pg will never have to guard evans unless martin is in the game with him. which means that evans will be the only ballhandler/distributer on the court for us. last time i checked, both roy and johnson were better than evans... so how is my post silly? outside of the tyreke 2.0...

The thing is we don't need a player better than Evans (although it would be a nice luxury). The point others have been making is that it would be great to have another big player in the backcourt to try to make the other team guard Reke with their PG. The simple truth is that if Reke keeps developing, the other team is going to put their best wing defender on him even if we can force a mismatch. The bigger player though would not need to be a Roy/Johnson, but could be someone like Doug Christie.

Another thing in terms of that player being "better" than Tyreke. I mean yes, technically you can argue that we would want a player who is better than Tyreke is TODAY. I mean Tyreke still needs to improve his outside shot, he still makes rookie mistakes, needs to improve at finishing in traffic, etc. But so did Roy, Johnson, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc. during their rookie seasons. I know personally, when I am talking about who we need to put next to Tyreke, I am thinking about a more developed version as I assume a 19 year old with a reportedly very good work ethic will improve.

 

[Kingsguy881]

1) i never said anything negative about evans, im a huge lebron fan and i knew that he wouldnt be a pg. i knew that he would be a great player as long as he didnt get injured. which was one of the things that kept tmac and vince carter from becoming top tier franchise players like kobe and now lebron.

2) i was merely responding to a post and made a vaild point. in order to have evans in position to have an advantage against pgs he will need a player better than he is to leave the opposing teams pg on evans. no pg can guard him, but they can all guard beno... they will be able to guard every pg we put next to evans not named chris paul or deron williams. we would need another evans or a sg like joe johnson or brandon roy who can split the ball handling duties. it wasnt an attack on evans just an observation. if you(or anyone) can think of another way to keep the opposing pg on evans i would love to hear it. because with the way this team is set up an opposing pg will never have to guard evans unless martin is in the game with him. which means that evans will be the only ballhandler/distributer on the court for us. last time i checked, both roy and johnson were better than evans... so how is my post silly? outside of the tyreke 2.0...





and you're right... i didnt start anything.

This entire post makes no sense. I feel like Austin Powers when he went cross-eyed.

 

[AriesMar27]

The thing is we don't need a player better than Evans (although it would be a nice luxury). The point others have been making is that it would be great to have another big player in the backcourt to try to make the other team guard Reke with their PG. The simple truth is that if Reke keeps developing, the other team is going to put their best wing defender on him even if we can force a mismatch. The bigger player though would not need to be a Roy/Johnson, but could be someone like Doug Christie.

Another thing in terms of that player being "better" than Tyreke. I mean yes, technically you can argue that we would want a player who is better than Tyreke is TODAY. I mean Tyreke still needs to improve his outside shot, he still makes rookie mistakes, needs to improve at finishing in traffic, etc. But so did Roy, Johnson, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc. during their rookie seasons. I know personally, when I am talking about who we need to put next to Tyreke, I am thinking about a more developed version as I assume a 19 year old with a reportedly very good work ethic will improve.

and the point that i was trying to make is that wont happen unless the player is a bigger offensive threat than evans. if you put a christie type of player next to evans the opposing pg would just guard him and not evans. you would need a legit scoring threat next to him to force the opposing teams hand and put a pg on evans. like when martin was healthy but then we lose the ball movement that we would have with a pg next to evans...

 

[mr. moustache]

Remember when Bonzi and Artest played well together. It's like that. Evans 2.0 needn't be a franchise guy. A not fat Bonzi, Doug, or even KM/Garcia could be an ideal backcourt mate.

I'm hoping it works out with Kevin. He's a nice guy, tall, and a legit threat to score 40. Unfortunately, he doesn't handle the ball, and doesn't pass, rebound, or defend. Garcia didn't pan out offensively like I thought he would. He has surpassed my expectations in other ways though.

Too bad Garcia and Martin are different guys. Their combined skillset and size would be a fantastic compliment to Evans.

 

[mr. moustache]

Fine. Then Evans gets the tougher defender and Doug scores 18 instead of 12. In this case, the mismatch goes to Doug instead of Evans. It's not like Evans needs to be matched up with a short PG to score.

In any case, I think putting size next to Evans is a better strategy than putting a player like Monte Ellis next to him.

Our old bigs(Webber, Vlade, Brad) could really help in the playmaking dept with a KM, TE backcourt.

and the point that i was trying to make is that wont happen unless the player is a bigger offensive threat than evans. if you put a christie type of player next to evans the opposing pg would just guard him and not evans. you would need a legit scoring threat next to him to force the opposing teams hand and put a pg on evans. like when martin was healthy but then we lose the ball movement that we would have with a pg next to evans...

 

[Gary]

But you dont realize!!Wade makes Chalmers seem better,Lebron makes Williams better...Tyreke makes Beno better??

Like what Brick was saying is some certain players have "it", certain qualities that change the way the team plays for the better!
Call it confidence or arrogance or whatever,those certain players have it!
Its amazing to see how one player like Tyreke can inspire the confidence of so many others like Beno,JT,K9,Donte....or well honestly just the entire Kings team 0_0!

It doesnt matter what position he play,point guard or shooting guard he's gonna matter!It's only a question of what position he plays better at!And if you ask me.....i think it doesn't matter!!

He's a special player,we should all be glad we got him.He's going to cause a lot of players headaches this year : )

It does matter the position he plays at.. Why? Because you wouldn't give Dwane Wade PG duties full time and expect him to be as dominant as he is playing off guard which focuses on his ball handling abilities... Basically he has Chalmers bring the ball up the court and start the set... Which goes to Wade usually to either create or distribute from there. Kind of like what CWebb did for us I guess. Bibby brings the ball up and sets up the offense.. Most of the time it goes to Webber at the elbow, but Bibby also could go to the corner for Peja, or to Christie slashing or to Divac in the post.. If Cwebb gets it he either drives it, shoots from the elbow, or passes it to Bibby, Christie, Divac, or Peja. Basically I want Evans to be our miniature Webber. I would be cool with that.

 

[AriesMar27]

Fine. Then Evans gets the tougher defender and Doug scores 18 instead of 12. In this case, the mismatch goes to Doug instead of Evans. It's not like Evans needs to be matched up with a short PG to score.

In any case, I think putting size next to Evans is a better strategy than putting a player like Monte Ellis next to him.

Our old bigs(Webber, Vlade, Brad) could really help in the playmaking dept with a KM, TE backcourt.

thats all i was saying... but if you wanted evans to be a beast against the opposing pg we would need a player that demands to be guarded by their best perimeter defender... if we had a christie type of player and was being guarded by their pg he should score 18 instead of 13 and the advantage goes to which ever player is being guarded by the pg. as long as beno is the guy next to evans he will be guarded by the opposing pg which means that evans wont have the size advantage.

 

[Kingsguy881]

and the point that i was trying to make is that wont happen unless the player is a bigger offensive threat than evans. if you put a christie type of player next to evans the opposing pg would just guard him and not evans. you would need a legit scoring threat next to him to force the opposing teams hand and put a pg on evans. like when martin was healthy but then we lose the ball movement that we would have with a pg next to evans...

And a 6'1" pg would be able to guard 6'7" athletic Doug Christie, who could see over the top of him to make easy passes or just post him up and pass out of the double? Your arguments have so many holes, this is the most easy one to poke. You're always harping on post count, try quality not quantity.

 

[Kingsguy881]

thats all i was saying... but if you wanted evans to be a beast against the opposing pg we would need a player that demands to be guarded by their best perimeter defender... if we had a christie type of player and was being guarded by their pg he should score 18 instead of 13 and the advantage goes to which ever player is being guarded by the pg. as long as beno is the guy next to evans he will be guarded by the opposing pg which means that evans wont have the size advantage.

Evans was guarded by Salmons all last game and Salmons couldn't stop him. Salmons, he of the playing Kobe to a draw Salmons. So what would lead you to believe that Evans would NEED any type of advantage to be effective? Because of who he IS, he ALREADY has advantages as soon as he steps on the court.

 

[Gary]

thats all i was saying... but if you wanted evans to be a beast against the opposing pg we would need a player that demands to be guarded by their best perimeter defender... if we had a christie type of player and was being guarded by their pg he should score 18 instead of 13 and the advantage goes to which ever player is being guarded by the pg. as long as beno is the guy next to evans he will be guarded by the opposing pg which means that evans wont have the size advantage.

Oh dang.. A prime Christie, and a young Evans back court has me salivating.

 

[M_Barragan]

Who said Tyreke was going to be guarded by the PG??? U put your best defender on the best player. If you have another big Guard then he forces the mismatch dude.

He can break down PG's off the dribble... he will be able to break down anyone player off the dribble it's what the kid does. You can afford to play him at PG because he can guard the other teams PG. He is quick and long enough to make up for disparity in speed.

Tyreke will always have the mismatch because of his physical abilities. Anyone strong enough for him wont be able to stay in front of him. Anyone fast enough won't be able to keep him from posting him and drawing the double team to controll him.

Basketball is all about the matchups you have on the floor whterh to your advantage or theres. Kings need to make it to theres. That's all I was saying. I personally think he can takeover full time duties at PG anyways. So any offensive off guard would work with him.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Oh dang.. A prime Christie, and a young Evans back court has me salivating.

There's no reason why Garcia can't get his head on straight and emulate DC. He has all the physical tools, however his mind is not right. Dude needs to grow up.