Testing a statement about Marvin Bagley

[TaxMan]

Chris Bosh was a fair support player. As was Scottie Pippin. I guess Karl Malone was in the support staff as well, as his game heavily relied upon Stockton in the pick and roll. James Worthy would fit into the support crew; he sure as heck relied on Magic Johnson. No doubt, there are many other support players who are All Stars. Comforting thought. It's nice to know that you can be in the support staff and still be a great player, maybe even a Hall of Famer.

I think it actually goes back to the team’s rationale for drafting Bagley. Im not sure they outright stated it, but it seems he was selected BECAUSE HE COMPLIMENTED Fox. I believe they said as a one/two punch, Fox/Bagley was the best pair they felt they could put forward. They are basically putting all their chips in and betting on Fox. If that’s really the thinking, then I guess if Fox succeeds and Bagley is his Pippen (or Malone or Worthy....etc) then it’s a win for us long term. It doesn’t matter if Bagley ends up as a ‘supporting’ all star, vs being the alpha, the bet is the sum is better than the parts.

Maybe as a glimpse into the future, we should be happier with the game one performance and chemistry with Fox, than the two proceeding stinkers without him (at least that’s how I’m trying to rationalize it until we get to training camp — with visions of other potential picks dancing in my head....)

 

[Blob]

Where's the option to "abstain" based on the merits of the question? I consider this thread to be "feeding the trolls" if not a full-course meal a satisfying snack.

Rick Carlise, one of the best coaches in the NBA, made an interesting comment yesterday. He said the Summer League can be more difficult for a prospect than an actual regular season game because the speed on the floor and everyone fighting for a spot on an active roster. I never thought about it this way but it makes sense. The Kings have been terrible since Game 1. They have been sped up and outrun by their opponents. Run off the floor in many instances against guys fighting for their NBA lives. They didn't have the collective speed in Game 2 and 3 and that coincides with De'Aaron playing one game.

How this pertains to Bagley is having teammates to draw gravity and give him room to operate. This is what shooters and penetrators do. I am not sure what Mason has been up to in the last two games, but he should be focused on getting the ball to Bagley and Giles more often in their sweet spots. One of his weaknesses that could hinder his effectiveness and playing time is delivering the ball in the post. Mason struggles with this due to his height. Mason needs to be better at getting these guys the ball if he wants to command back-up PG minutes. I will look for this today. How many easy plays does Mason make for his bigs? It should be more than can be counted on one or two fingers.

 

[Kingster]

I think it actually goes back to the team’s rationale for drafting Bagley. Im not sure they outright stated it, but it seems he was selected BECAUSE HE COMPLIMENTED Fox. I believe they said as a one/two punch, Fox/Bagley was the best pair they felt they could put forward. They are basically putting all their chips in and betting on Fox. If that’s really the thinking, then I guess if Fox succeeds and Bagley is his Pippen (or Malone or Worthy....etc) then it’s a win for us long term. It doesn’t matter if Bagley ends up as a ‘supporting’ all star, vs being the alpha, the bet is the sum is better than the parts.

Maybe as a glimpse into the future, we should be happier with the game one performance and chemistry with Fox, than the two proceeding stinkers without him (at least that’s how I’m trying to rationalize it until we get to training camp — with visions of other potential picks dancing in my head....)

My guess is that in their analysis Kings' management believed that at the very least Bagley becomes a very good complementary player to Fox. That's their floor for him. It will probably take about four years to have a decent idea of what Bagley's ceiling is, imo.

 

[Blob]

If he did, not sure about the not impacting certain games one bit, the non aggression on D at times, nonchalant post game interviews after bad games etc

What you are perceiving is not nonchalance, it is self-belief, confidence and equanimity. I would be concerned if Bagley showed signs of distress and worry post-game. Then said player would be more likely to press and force and compound his struggles. If nonchalance was a viable tag it would manifest in sporadic effort. We haven't seen that. Did you see Ayton last night? He looked okay but one outlet pass he made behind his back bounce pass with a defender in the vicinity. That was nonchalance! It was careless and ridiculous too. The pass got picked and cost his team three points.

 

[ockingsfan]

Well, the Kings play Phoenix in their 1st Vegas Summer League game today.

We will see who wins the "Suckage Wars" of Ayton vs Bagley.

We all know that the oh so important 1st summer league games may dictate the careers of both these young men.

Whomever losses this epic battle today will "Suck" forevermore.

GO TEAM BAGLEY!!!

 

[Kingz19]

Actually his lack of right hand was one of his biggest weaknesses mentioned before the draft. But what do you think we should do when we see something in a summer league game? Not write about it? This is a message board after all and unless you suggest we shut this site down during the summer league, I dont understand what you are mad or "amused" about. Every single person that watched these games saw his lack of right hand. Doesnt mean he wont develope but that doesnt mean it cant be mentioned.

If we cant discuss anything even slightly negative happening around this franchise, there wont be real discussion. Will get really boring and really pointless really fast when every post is the same "Im so excited about our young core and every decision Vlade makes" ect.

I hope Bagley becomes a very good player, a go to go guy that we expect if we draft at #2 taking a offensive player. That doesnt mean I have to shut down my own thinking process while watching the games for the next 2-3 years because he is young. If I or someone else sees something concerning in his game, its worth a discussion without it meaning that he is labled as a bust.

It appears maybe you’re overly “amused” I didn’t say people can’t talk about it. That’s another cool thing about forums(or most forums at least). Not everybody agrees. Plenty of people since the classic have been ridiculously judgmental, not merely “pointing out” underdeveloped portions of his game, and practically writing him off. Like the user at the center of his thread, infrequent users who showed up just to complain and just by the “amused” nature of your post, perhaps you’ve been jumping to too many conclusions. Perhaps. I don’t know that to be true.

It’s fun to talk about how a prospect is developing but when so many jaded fans immediately jump to extreme case after exhibition-exhibition games it takes away any constructive discussion about the topic. Instead we start talking about whether he’s a bust, Vlade, or basically what this thread is about.

I’m not upset. When I say amused, I mean just that. As for Bagleys off hand, I don’t remember it being much of a topic of discussion at all. Maybe I saw it listed in some mock draft profiles but it wasn’t seen as anything alarming then as it’s very common among young players to find that they need to make adjustments to the way it’s always done as far as the hand they favor but even the best players still heavily favor one side...but only the lefty has a forum discussion dedicated to it.

 

[Gguod]

It appears maybe you’re overly “amused” I didn’t say people can’t talk about it. That’s another cool thing about forums(or most forums at least). Not everybody agrees. Plenty of people since the classic have been ridiculously judgmental, not merely “pointing out” underdeveloped portions of his game, and practically writing him off. Like the user at the center of his thread, infrequent users who showed up just to complain and just by the “amused” nature of your post, perhaps you’ve been jumping to too many conclusions. Perhaps. I don’t know that to be true.

It’s fun to talk about how a prospect is developing but when so many jaded fans immediately jump to extreme case after exhibition-exhibition games it takes away any constructive discussion about the topic. Instead we start talking about whether he’s a bust, Vlade, or basically what this thread is about.

I’m not upset. When I say amused, I mean just that. As for Bagleys off hand, I don’t remember it being much of a topic of discussion at all. Maybe I saw it listed in some mock draft profiles but it wasn’t seen as anything alarming then as it’s very common among young players to find that they need to make adjustments to the way it’s always done as far as the hand they favor but even the best players still heavily favor one side...but only the lefty has a forum discussion dedicated to it.

Well I dont know why you are claming I'm amused when you are the only person in this thread to actually use the word.

Most of the people after seeing three games of Bagley saw some things that were conserning and I'm 100% sure you saw the exact same things. What conclusions you want to draw from those things is your own decision and its a right for every other member here. But you can read all the topics back if you want, majority of people who saw some negatives in Bagleys game didnt say he was a bust. Thats just something you decided yourself that people were "overly critical" ect. Majority of posters didnt "jump to extreme cases". If there were one or two that came to a conclusion that he was dissapointing, they have every right to do that and if you disagree you have every right to argue them why Bagley wasnt dissapointing.

No need to create your own narrative where many of us is supposebly claiming he is a bust. If you disagree with a single post, argue the post and its arguments. Dont create a false narrative.

 

[kingsboi]

Kings should look to trade Bagley while he still has some value from game one

 

[VF21]

Actually his lack of right hand was one of his biggest weaknesses mentioned before the draft. But what do you think we should do when we see something in a summer league game? Not write about it? This is a message board after all and unless you suggest we shut this site down during the summer league, I dont understand what you are mad or "amused" about. Every single person that watched these games saw his lack of right hand. Doesnt mean he wont develope but that doesnt mean it cant be mentioned.

If we cant discuss anything even slightly negative happening around this franchise, there wont be real discussion. Will get really boring and really pointless really fast when every post is the same "Im so excited about our young core and every decision Vlade makes" ect.

I hope Bagley becomes a very good player, a go to go guy that we expect if we draft at #2 taking a offensive player. That doesnt mean I have to shut down my own thinking process while watching the games for the next 2-3 years because he is young. If I or someone else sees something concerning in his game, its worth a discussion without it meaning that he is labled as a bust.

The problem (and the reason for this particular thread/poll) is that a few (well 3 if you believe the poll results ) ARE already labeling him a bust after 3 PRE-SUMMER LEAGUE games.

 

[Gliesian]

 

[Kingsfan23]

What you are perceiving is not nonchalance, it is self-belief, confidence and equanimity. I would be concerned if Bagley showed signs of distress and worry post-game. Then said player would be more likely to press and force and compound his struggles. If nonchalance was a viable tag it would manifest in sporadic effort. We haven't seen that. Did you see Ayton last night? He looked okay but one outlet pass he made behind his back bounce pass with a defender in the vicinity. That was nonchalance! It was careless and ridiculous too. The pass got picked and cost his team three points.

Your a disrespectful fill in the blank..

The OP wasn’t a pass for you to act your classless self and attack another poster on their beliefs? Get it (with your troll comment).

None of us know what are going on in these kids heads, we can only share the vibes we get from them.

He’s needed to do more to solidify my belief in him, personally.



I was taking a break until I read the posts of this last page. A lot of ignore material coming up when I come back in a few weeks to state how I feel!

 

[King-Biscuit-Time]

Up in arms? Not sure what that really means, but definitely feel deflated and disappointed. We should've picked who most people thought we should have picked.

 

[King-Biscuit-Time]

If we judge talents by Summer League, we should totally sign Yi Jianlian and Anthony Randolph... Take this video as an example, I mean it's filled with whos-who. I mean really, who is he?

Not the relevant question. Don't think anyone is claiming your summer league performance absolutely predicts how successful your career will be. The more interesting question is if there is a correlation between a good summer league and successful career. I think it's reasonable to assume that if you played well in summer league, you are more likely to have a good career than someone who sucked in summer league.

 

[Kingsfan23]

If you throw out comments like the one I quoted above as though they're facts, I'm gonna call you on them. I'd do it no matter who it was who made the initial post.

What purpose would it serve using someone’s hyperbole in a question?

It doesn’t get to the truth of the matter, because if we asked a simple “are you concerned about Bagley?” it would actually serve purpose to get the fanbases true take. I’d actually be curious what the outcome would be, and if I was right

The only thing setting someone’s hyperbole up in a question does is elicit negativity, which was your intent I’m quite sure. To socially penalize the negativity

 

[VF21]

Not the relevant question. Don't think anyone is claiming your summer league performance absolutely predicts how successful your career will be. The more interesting question is if there is a correlation between a good summer league and successful career. I think it's reasonable to assume that if you played well in summer league, you are more likely to have a good career than someone who sucked in summer league.

Think again. There is a list that someone posted a while back of players who lit it up in summer league and did zero, zilch, zip, nada in the regular season.

 

[Double-K]

Not the relevant question. Don't think anyone is claiming your summer league performance absolutely predicts how successful your career will be. The more interesting question is if there is a correlation between a good summer league and successful career. I think it's reasonable to assume that if you played well in summer league, you are more likely to have a good career than someone who sucked in summer league.

Well, then allow me to present to you Summer League's best performers:
Pts: Anthony Morrow (47), Anthony Randolph/Von Wafer/Marcus Banks (42), Keith Bogans (38)
Reb: Joey Dorsey (20) Twice, Lonnie Jones (20), James Singleton/Kevin Love (17)
Ast: Marcus Williams (17), Brandon Jennings (14), Sebastian Telfair/Rajon Rondo/Jose Barea (11)

 

[Turgenev]

I consider this thread to be "feeding the trolls" if not a full-course meal a satisfying snack.

Does anyone wait to be fed a specific meal??

'Game was good last night!'

'I couldn't concentrate without my 2019 draft pick. Vlade sucks!'.

...

Does this make me a troll? Perhaps.

 

[Gary]

I voted yes for the "lulz".. I would have rather had Trae Young. We didn't need Bagley, and I am not a huge fan of his.

 

[SLAB]

I remain up in arms because the team even picked him. It had nothing to do with his lousy games (of which I only saw one)

Maybe I'm slowly getting over it. At least I'm logged on and willing to post for the time being.