What to do with Bagley?

What should we do with Bagley?

  • Give him big development minutes to best guide our course this summer

  • Play him in the hopes somebody will trade *something* for him

  • Give him minor rotation minutes, let him walk this summer

  • Bench him entirely, let him walk this summer

  • Just cut him now


Results are only viewable after voting.

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#1
I was stepping on the Buddy thread (and I need to do better at not doing that, being a mod and all) so I'm going to move the "offending" material to its own thread...

I'm one of the few proponents of my unpopular position: the player we should be starting is Bagley. Not because Bagley is certain to make us better. But because we have, what, 64 games left to develop Bagley before we have to make a decision on his future with the team, and we need to get as much info on that situation as we can. I know most people here are convinced he's a bust, but his first three years in the league he has dealt with multiple injuries, and as best as we can tell, a coach who didn't like him and didn't care to develop him. He wasn't a consensus top-5 guy in his draft because he didn't have the talent and athleticism to succeed in the NBA - clearly he did. He hasn't REALIZED that talent, and he may not ever do so. But he's still only 22, and he's a metaphorical lottery scratcher. We've already scratched off a few of the fields, and nothing promising so far, but there are several left. And look, it's clear nobody is going to pay us even the dollar this would have cost at the store for a half-used scratcher. So we have to ask ourselves: do we scratch off the rest, or do we just toss it in the garbage? The answer is obvious. Scratch it off. See what you get.

If he starts consistently showing the promise we've been teased with, then great! We could have a young player that could help us get to the playoffs, maybe we'll be able to squint and see all-star potential, we give him the QO to make him an RFA and go from there. And if not, it's just a more effective tank to play him big minutes. Kind of a win-win, if you ask me.

But I'll likely just be screaming into the void about this and watch Bagley get < 12 minutes a game the rest of the way and not have any plays run for him, and then when we let him walk we'll get to be in the fun position of hoping he fails (because if we dump him and he blows up elsewhere, holy anti-Kings media sentiment fodder, Batman!)
 
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#2
I'm one of the few proponents of my unpopular position: the player we should be starting is Bagley. Not because Bagley is certain to make us better. But because we have, what, 64 games left to develop Bagley before we have to make a decision on his future with the team, and we need to get as much info on that situation as we can. I know most people here are convinced he's a bust, but his first three years in the league he has dealt with multiple injuries, and as best as we can tell, a coach who didn't like him and didn't care to develop him. He wasn't a consensus top-5 guy in his draft because he didn't have the talent and athleticism to succeed in the NBA - clearly he did. He hasn't REALIZED that talent, and he may not ever do so. But he's still only 22, and he's a metaphorical lottery scratcher. We've already scratched off a few of the fields, and nothing promising so far, but there are several left. And look, it's clear nobody is going to pay us even the dollar this would have cost at the store for a half-used scratcher. So we have to ask ourselves: do we scratch off the rest, or do we just toss it in the garbage? The answer is obvious. Scratch it off. See what you get.

If he starts consistently showing the promise we've been teased with, then great! We could have a young player that could help us get to the playoffs, maybe we'll be able to squint and see all-star potential, we give him the QO to make him an RFA and go from there. And if not, it's just a more effective tank to play him big minutes. Kind of a win-win, if you ask me.

But I'll likely just be screaming into the void about this and watch Bagley get < 12 minutes a game the rest of the way and not have any plays run for him, and then when we let him walk we'll get to be in the fun position of hoping he fails (because if we dump him and he blows up elsewhere, holy anti-Kings media sentiment fodder, Batman!)
He looks worse than he did as a rookie. He actually looks less motivated or more inept at getting rebounds than a couple of years ago. Clearly, Gentry isn't playing guys to develop them (he's got the G league for that), but to win games, so I doubt Bagley gets more than cameo appearances.
 
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Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#3
He looks worse than he did as a rookie. He actually looks less motivated or more inept at getting rebounds than a couple of years ago. Clearly, Gentry isn't playing guys to develop them (he's got the G league for that), but to win games, so I doubt Bagley gets more than cameo appearances.
He was consistently crashing the boards last night and got 5 rebounds in 12 minutes, so I don't know where this is coming from. And Bagley can't be assigned to the G-League (without union consent, which won't happen), because he has three years of NBA experience.

I agree that your prediction about what the Kings do with Bagley is probably right, I'm just saying that that strategy is super flawed.
 
#4
Bench him entirely. Try to trade him exclusively as an ender. Then if no one wants that buy him out. I don’t care about the promise of “potential” (there isn’t any in Sacramento) when he pulled his not checking in nonsense his ship was sunk. The day he isn’t a King is a day I’m a happier fan, and at this point that’s all I can hope for… being slightly happier with an awful product.
 
#5
He was consistently crashing the boards last night and got 5 rebounds in 12 minutes, so I don't know where this is coming from. And Bagley can't be assigned to the G-League (without union consent, which won't happen), because he has three years of NBA experience.

I agree that your prediction about what the Kings do with Bagley is probably right, I'm just saying that that strategy is super flawed.
here is an interesting data point. According to John Hollinger the qualifying offer on Bagley, because he isn’t starting, is 7.2M versus the $14.2 number if he were starting.

if you do want to consider matching an offer and not letting yet another asset walk for nothing, and if Hollinger is correct, then no way in hell do you start him this year.
 
#6
He was consistently crashing the boards last night and got 5 rebounds in 12 minutes, so I don't know where this is coming from. And Bagley can't be assigned to the G-League (without union consent, which won't happen), because he has three years of NBA experience.

I agree that your prediction about what the Kings do with Bagley is probably right, I'm just saying that that strategy is super flawed.
He looked terrible to me. He's out there dancing with stars instead of looking to initiate contact. Absolute wussy play.
 
#7
here is an interesting data point. According to John Hollinger the qualifying offer on Bagley, because he isn’t starting, is 7.2M versus the $14.2 number if he were starting.

if you do want to consider matching an offer and not letting yet another asset walk for nothing, and if Hollinger is correct, then no way in hell do you start him this year.
Well, here you’re making the mistake of assuming Bagley is an asset.

Ever since Vlade walked out on the mess he made of this franchise, Bagley has been on the block. There’s been zero interest. He can’t play, can’t stay healthy, and can’t keep his dad off Twitter.

I could care less what the FO decides to do with a bust. Damage was done when Vlade (+Williams) picked a garbage man over a savant. No need to go all in on a sunk cost fallacy or anything.

Maaaaaybe, just maybe, Gentry can rehab his value enough for some dummy GM to gamble with a late first or something. Only reason to play him (that and lins).
 
#8
I thought he'd be starting this year, if for nothing else to show case him for a mid season trade.

I'm not very familiar with salaries and that end of the game. The situation makes a lot more sense based on whats been posted above. Other than seemingly letting him walk for nothing part, or do the Kings have 7.2 to jerk him around like that?
 
#9
He needs to play. Bagley is extremely talented and by the looks of it someone willing to learn.

Wasn't Brandon Ingram awful under Luke ?

Maybe Luke was horribly mis-managing him ?

Why are we never running pick and roll with Bagley ? I think him and Fox would basically be unstoppable in the pick and roll.

Instead it's the other big that gets the pick and roll opportunities. I get it that the other bigs can't shoot at all but still I think you need to mix it up from time to time.

Is he perfect on defense ? No, but he's trying.
 
#10
After watching yesterday's game, I wasn't really impressed with the rebounds he got, tbh. Whenever he grabbed them away from other teammates (not all of them), I was like... fine, grab those rebounds, whatever, but don't mess up the flow of the offense. I get the point of seeing what we have considering his injury-filled past, but let's say he plays amazing... what are we offering? Is it worth offering him anything considering it is a contract year and he could easily just pull the same garbage he's pulled in the past with low level of play, effort, and bad attitude?
 
#11
Our season is basically over, what do we have to lose to play him? He probably won't be here next year, so just give him all the minutes. If he sucks? He's leaving anyways. If he's good? We can trade him.

I don't really care for Bagley anymore, but there hasn't been any legitimate reason for why he suddenly fell out of the rotation. We can't get much worse from here, we just lost to a GLeague Sixers team. How bad can Bagley be?
 
#14
He was consistently crashing the boards last night and got 5 rebounds in 12 minutes, so I don't know where this is coming from. And Bagley can't be assigned to the G-League (without union consent, which won't happen), because he has three years of NBA experience.

I agree that your prediction about what the Kings do with Bagley is probably right, I'm just saying that that strategy is super flawed.
Bagley played against G leaguers last night. Who the hell cares that he got 5 rebounds against them? Those are empty stats. He had no impact on game whatsoever. He played with no force whatsoever. If he played against somebody like Tobias Harris, Harris would have him doing menial chores for him before the end of the game. Does Bagley ever set a screen without slipping it??? I've never seen any defender ever run into him because he always shies from contact. Have you ever seen a defender get "rocked" by a Bagley screen? Wussy, wussy, wussy. Personally, I'd get him out on the football field and have him slam into the sled twenty times to understand what contact is. Better yet, put him in some pads and go one on one with a linebacker. Now that would be entertaining.
 
#15
He needs to play. Bagley is extremely talented and by the looks of it someone willing to learn.

Wasn't Brandon Ingram awful under Luke ?

Maybe Luke was horribly mis-managing him ?

Why are we never running pick and roll with Bagley ? I think him and Fox would basically be unstoppable in the pick and roll.

Instead it's the other big that gets the pick and roll opportunities. I get it that the other bigs can't shoot at all but still I think you need to mix it up from time to time.

Is he perfect on defense ? No, but he's trying.
Oh ya it’s Luke’s fault hahah

anyways Ingram looked good with Luke and you can’t run a pick and roll when the dude can’t set a pick to save his life
 
#16
The Kings did not look like a playoff team to me before the season, it is not looking like one now. So what's the point of fighting for another 30-win season? Play the youngsters! And that includes Bagley, and I'm talking about serious minutes (30+). There are basically four scenarios that will happen:

1. He gets injured. Kings go back to Plan A.
2. He sucks. Ok, now we know. Cut him loose.
3. He plays alright but makes little to no improvement. Cut him loose if you can't bungle him in a trade.
4. He plays out of his mind and makes a few opponents cry. Great. Trade him for something of value.

There is no downside to playing Bagley. The worse that can happen is you become a 20-win team instead of a 30-win team. Wait, is that even a downside?

Imo, it's not that hard to repair Bagley's trade value. He's so trigger-happy and rebound-hunting that if he gets 30+ mins a game, he'll put up numbers. Even if it's empty stats. I'm willing to bet some GM will go, "Gosh, the Kings are giving away this young stud. Let me trade for him!"
.
 
#17
Quote from Bobby Marks Twitter:
"If Bagley does not start 41 games or plays 2000 minutes this season, his Qualifying Offer for next offseason will drop from $14.8M to $7.3M."

This is why you play Marvin heavy non-starter minutes, as a non-starter a team that is interested near the deadline can use his ending salary of 11.3m to complete a trade with the kings. The team trading for him can play him as starter or non-starter as long as he does not start 41 games for the season. At the end of the season, the new team likes Bagley as a project for next season, they only have to make qual offer 7.3m to match in RFA. If at the end of the season if new team does not like Bagley, they can cut him loose and save 11.3 in cap Space.

Same reasons for Kings to either make the above trade near the deadline, to use salary to get a potential trade starter player with Bags salary as filler
OR kings decide by deadline they want to keep Bagley next year, again only have to make QO of the 7.3m and match to keep him

So whether Kings trade him at deadline or keep him, playing Bagley 30 min a game as a non-starter will maximize his value to the Kings
 
#18
I was stepping on the Buddy thread (and I need to do better at not doing that, being a mod and all) so I'm going to move the "offending" material to its own thread...

I'm one of the few proponents of my unpopular position: the player we should be starting is Bagley. Not because Bagley is certain to make us better. But because we have, what, 64 games left to develop Bagley before we have to make a decision on his future with the team, and we need to get as much info on that situation as we can. I know most people here are convinced he's a bust, but his first three years in the league he has dealt with multiple injuries, and as best as we can tell, a coach who didn't like him and didn't care to develop him. He wasn't a consensus top-5 guy in his draft because he didn't have the talent and athleticism to succeed in the NBA - clearly he did. He hasn't REALIZED that talent, and he may not ever do so. But he's still only 22, and he's a metaphorical lottery scratcher. We've already scratched off a few of the fields, and nothing promising so far, but there are several left. And look, it's clear nobody is going to pay us even the dollar this would have cost at the store for a half-used scratcher. So we have to ask ourselves: do we scratch off the rest, or do we just toss it in the garbage? The answer is obvious. Scratch it off. See what you get.

If he starts consistently showing the promise we've been teased with, then great! We could have a young player that could help us get to the playoffs, maybe we'll be able to squint and see all-star potential, we give him the QO to make him an RFA and go from there. And if not, it's just a more effective tank to play him big minutes. Kind of a win-win, if you ask me.

But I'll likely just be screaming into the void about this and watch Bagley get < 12 minutes a game the rest of the way and not have any plays run for him, and then when we let him walk we'll get to be in the fun position of hoping he fails (because if we dump him and he blows up elsewhere, holy anti-Kings media sentiment fodder, Batman!)
Cap, you know where this thread is headed. LOL.
 
#20
Edit: Actually I'm not going to beat a dead horse anymore. All I'm gonna say is please just tank for the love of god and play Bagley big minutes. Play Bagley, either trade expensive vets or play them less and let young guys determine the win total. Hopefully you end up with a top 4 pick and some additional future assets
 
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#21
Yet the poll currently shows that 50% of the people who have voted (who aren't me) agree with my position!
And he got a very warm welcome when he was introduced at a home game. Perhaps people like him, acknowledge he has some ability, but the promise of a reply that is either "nah he is wussy trash" or "I dislike him for very sound and honourable reasons" is enough to put most off.
 
#22
Play the kid. You can mess around with people's contracts just for the sake of not paying them. You don't think people realize what's going on. That's not how you create a good culture. We need the culture more than 7m cap. Start him and play him as of hes the number 2 pick and 22 years old.

Honestly they're are people playing that are less deserving than him. And it's hard to believe but it's true
 
#23
Play him a bit just so they don't blatantly look like they are trying to rob some of his guarantee then right after the deadline if his salary isn't needed cut him so the Pistons can see if they can make the Kings brass look like bigger morons than they already do.
 
#26
Quote from Bobby Marks Twitter:
"If Bagley does not start 41 games or plays 2000 minutes this season, his Qualifying Offer for next offseason will drop from $14.8M to $7.3M."

This is why you play Marvin heavy non-starter minutes, as a non-starter a team that is interested near the deadline can use his ending salary of 11.3m to complete a trade with the kings. The team trading for him can play him as starter or non-starter as long as he does not start 41 games for the season. At the end of the season, the new team likes Bagley as a project for next season, they only have to make qual offer 7.3m to match in RFA. If at the end of the season if new team does not like Bagley, they can cut him loose and save 11.3 in cap Space.

Same reasons for Kings to either make the above trade near the deadline, to use salary to get a potential trade starter player with Bags salary as filler
OR kings decide by deadline they want to keep Bagley next year, again only have to make QO of the 7.3m and match to keep him

So whether Kings trade him at deadline or keep him, playing Bagley 30 min a game as a non-starter will maximize his value to the Kings
Your point is sort of correct except the new team would need to stay under the minutes. So playing him just a few minutes let’s them play him more minutes at the end of the year.
 
#27
I've already said that I'd start Marvin if only because Mo Harkless is slightly under 23% from three and averaging less than 5 rebounds per 36 minutes.

His defense is significantly better than Bagley's but considering how bad defensively Fox and Hield are I don't see how they can get a pass but Marvin can't.

Bagley would address the Kings rebounding woes, has shown in the past the ability to space the floor at least as well as Harkless, if not better, is a threat in transition (McNair wants more uptempo basketball, right?) and is probably the best iso scorer on the team other than Fox.

If he plays well then he's a potential trade asset or (probably most unlikely at this point) a candidate to be re-signed. If not, what has really been lost?

Why is this team even playing to win at this point? Can anyone really squint hard enough to envision this roster with minor tweaks being good enough to consistently make the playoffs? Barnes is a FA after next year. Buddy wants out. Fox has regressed. Mitchell, Haliburton and Holmes look like good complimentary players but this team needs a true star player. Someone that makes Fox (who hopefully finds his game again) option B.

At least trading off pieces and rebuilding would be a strategy. This current tact of treading water and hoping for things to break just right for the 10th seed is exactly why the Kings have been so terrible for so long. And why we'll likely see teams like OKC and Houston bounce back and be good again while we're still frustrated and watching subpar basketball.
 
#28
I've already said that I'd start Marvin if only because Mo Harkless is slightly under 23% from three and averaging less than 5 rebounds per 36 minutes.

His defense is significantly better than Bagley's but considering how bad defensively Fox and Hield are I don't see how they can get a pass but Marvin can't.

Bagley would address the Kings rebounding woes, has shown in the past the ability to space the floor at least as well as Harkless, if not better, is a threat in transition (McNair wants more uptempo basketball, right?) and is probably the best iso scorer on the team other than Fox.

If he plays well then he's a potential trade asset or (probably most unlikely at this point) a candidate to be re-signed. If not, what has really been lost?

Why is this team even playing to win at this point? Can anyone really squint hard enough to envision this roster with minor tweaks being good enough to consistently make the playoffs? Barnes is a FA after next year. Buddy wants out. Fox has regressed. Mitchell, Haliburton and Holmes look like good complimentary players but this team needs a true star player. Someone that makes Fox (who hopefully finds his game again) option B.

At least trading off pieces and rebuilding would be a strategy. This current tact of treading water and hoping for things to break just right for the 10th seed is exactly why the Kings have been so terrible for so long. And why we'll likely see teams like OKC and Houston bounce back and be good again while we're still frustrated and watching subpar basketball.
yeah continuity has done nothing. It’s time to blow it up
 
#29
I agree. Bagley should be starting and he should focus on rebounding -- particularly defensive rebounding -- which has been a glaring issue all season. I'm one of the few people here who's been consistently down on Bagley's potential since before he was drafted but even so I think he's one of the 9 best players on the team right now and he should be getting at least 20 minutes every game. Now that Luke is gone, there is a chance to get a clean start on this season and try and rebuild some of his value. It's not like Metu or Harkless are giving us much production right now anyway.

One of this organization's many misguided obsessions dating back as far as 2008 with Jason Thompson has been drafting PFs with some perimeter skills and then making them play as if they're a SF. Just because Bagley can move on the perimeter and keep up with smaller, quicker players that doesn't mean it's how he's best utilized on defense. Especially when our starting C is shorter than he is. His size and athleticism should be good for double digit rebounds every night if we just let him play in a position where he can box out.

I suppose the contract issue is a significant one (especially if the plan is still to trade him this season) but intentionally sitting somebody who is one of the 9 best players on the team to save money on his qualifying offer is the type of decision agents and the players union aren't going to forget and the negative impact of that impression could wind up costing us a lot more than the $7 million we're theoretically saving .
 
#30
Although I did not watch the game yesterday, he has looked lost when he is on the court.
He does not keep an eye on the ball, avoids contact, and did not seem to know where to be on certain plays.
He does not rebound and take contact as well as TT.
He does not box out, defend, and shot block as good as Len.

He is not needed.
Let him rot on the bench until a decent offer comes along.

We do not owe him anything. He has had his chance. If you don't know what you get from him at this point, then you are fooling yourself.