SUSPENSIONS ANNOUNCED!

mcsluggo said:
As far as I'm concerned, these suspensions are beyoond moronic.

I'm sure there are a bunch of Detroit fans half naked in body paint running around high fiving each other even as we speak. By being classless and lawless, the detroit fans (with the help of their classless team) have manged in one fell swoop to essentially eliminate their single biggest rival for the eastern conference crown. There is a good set of incentives to inspire better behahavior from fans in the future. Woohoo, way to go.

If the Detroit fans don't win the "6th man" of the year award, it will be a farce.
I was thinking the same thing. Kind of the ultimate triumph of fans actually having an effect on the outcome, not only of a game, but of an entire season. Detroit is now alone as the prohibitive favorite in the East unless Shaq can stop them.
 
Gargamel said:
Imagine, Pollard saw both the Pacers' brawl and the Christie/Fox tunnel affair. This is becoming old hat to him. I guess he missed the Pacers/Kings brawl of '96 though... That one was pretty good too.


and with these suspensions he's got a better chance at getting some PT.

but, I would really hate to have been in his shoes.
 
Prophetess said:
and with these suspensions he's got a better chance at getting some PT.

but, I would really hate to have been in his shoes.

True, but only if he come's back from his sore back problems. He was dressed in last night's game only because the Pacers needed 8 guys suited up....not because he was physically able to play.
 
For those of you who think Artest and JO's punching of fans who came out onto the court was unjustified, how is it any different than baseball players tackling or attacking anyone who comes down onto the field? That happens occasionally and it's no big deal. Granted, the whole thing is about Artest actually going into the stands, but in no way can you blame the players for violently reacting to fans coming down onto the court.
 
LPKingsFan said:
For those of you who think Artest and JO's punching of fans who came out onto the court was unjustified, how is it any different than baseball players tackling or attacking anyone who comes down onto the field? That happens occasionally and it's no big deal. Granted, the whole thing is about Artest actually going into the stands, but in no way can you blame the players for violently reacting to fans coming down onto the court.
I TOTALLY agree with you on this one........those fans who came down to the floor just asking for trouble.........they deserve whatever happen to them......even if that means a couple of hard knock........
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/11/21/artest.suspension.ap/index.html

The real suspensions:

NEW YORK (AP) -- Ron Artest of the Indiana Pacers was suspended for the rest of the season Sunday and two of his teammates received suspensions of at least 25 games for fighting with fans as an NBA game against the Detroit Pistons degenerated into a melee.

Nine players from the teams were banned for a combined 143 games, including some of the harshest penalties the league has ever issued. Artest is the first player to be suspended for nearly an entire season for a fight during a game.

Pushing and shoving among players at Friday's game escalated into one of the worst fights in U.S. professional sports history when a fan threw a drink at Artest and he jumped into the stands, throwing punches. Nine people were treated for injuries, none serious.

"We have to make the point that there are boundaries in our games," NBA commissioner David Stern said. "One of our boundaries, that have always been immutable, is the boundary that separate the fans from the court. Players cannot lose control and move into the stands."

Indiana's Stephen Jackson was suspended for 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace -- whose shove of Artest after a foul led to the five-minute fracas -- drew a six-game ban, while Pacers guard Anthony Johnson got five games.

Four players were suspended for a game apiece: Indiana's Reggie Miller and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman.

"The message the league sent was so powerful to players that they'll never do that again," Pistons CEO Tom Wilson said.

All the suspensions are without pay.

Artest, O'Neal and Jackson -- who all threw punches at fans in the stands or on the court at the end of the nationally televised game
 
I highlighted the relevent passages below...so, who's out there for the Pacers to sign? (BESIDES Courtney Alexander :D ).

My two cents? The fans were totally out of line, Wallace was out of line to push Artest, Artest had no business lying on the scorers table, and if he had separated himself more completely from the confrontation, he wouldn't have been in the assclown's throwing range. And it was completely unforgiveable for him and Stephen Jackson to go into the stands swinging.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1928540
Sunday, November 21, 2004
Suspensions without pay, won't be staggered

ESPN.com news services

NEW YORK -- Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season Sunday as the NBA came down hard on three members of the Indiana Pacers for fighting with fans when a melee broke out at the end of a game against the Detroit Pistons.

Overall, nine players from the teams were banned for 143 games, including some of the harshest penalties the league ever issued. Artest is the first player to be suspended for nearly an entire season for a fight during a game.

"The message the league sent was so powerful to players that they'll never do that again," Pistons CEO Tom Wilson said.

Indiana's Stephen Jackson was suspended for 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace -- whose shove of Artest after a foul led to the 5-minute fracas -- drew a six-game ban, while Pacers guard Anthony Johnson got five games.

"I'm sick about that for Indiana. I'm devastated for them," Pistons coach Larry Brown said. "And we lost our heart and soul."

Four players were suspended for a game apiece: Indiana's Reggie Miller, and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman.

All of the suspensions are without pay. The suspensions will not be staggered, league sources told ESPN.com's Marc Stein. The Pacers will be without Artest, Jackson, O'Neal and Johnson concurrenty until the suspension are served.

Any player hit with a long-term suspension, according to league rules, can be placed on the suspended list by their team, Stein reports.

The pacers can sign players to league-minimum contracts or use any salary-cap exceptions they have left to fill their roster vacancies.

Artest, O'Neal and Jackson -- who all threw punches at fans in the stands or on the court at the end of the nationally televised Pacers-Pistons game Friday night -- began serving their suspensions Saturday. Indiana, limited to just six players because of the suspensions and injuries, dropped an 86-83 decision to Orlando.

"The actions of the players involved wildly exceeded the professionalism and self-control that should fairly be expected from NBA players," NBA commissioner David Stern said in a statement, adding that the league must not "allow our sport to be debased by what seem to be declining expectations."

The NBA also has to "redefine the bounds of acceptable conduct for fans attending our games and resolve to permanently exclude those who overstep those bounds," Stern said.

He added that security procedures in all NBA arenas will be reviewed and rules need to be added to prevent a repeat of what happened at Auburn Hills, Mich., on Friday.

For Sunday night's home game against the Charlotte Bobcats -- Detroit's first outing since the melee -- the Pistons doubled the number of armed police to about 20 in the arena and increased other arena security personnel by about 25 percent.

The brawl was particularly violent, with Artest and Jackson bolting into the stands near center court and throwing punches at fans after debris was tossed at the players.

Later, fans who came onto the court were punched in the face by Artest and O'Neal.

Nine people were treated for injuries, and police are investigating possible criminal charges.

Wallace began the fracas by delivering a hard, two-handed shove to Artest after Wallace was fouled on a drive to the basket with 45.9 seconds remaining. After the fight ended, the referees called off the rest of the game.

The initial skirmish wasn't all that bad, with Artest retreating to the scorer's table and lying atop it after Wallace sent him reeling backward. But when a fan tossed a cup at Artest, he stormed into the stands, throwing punches as he climbed over seats.

Jackson joined Artest and threw punches at fans, who punched back. At one point, a chair was tossed into the fray.

The most recent example of an NBA player going into the stands and punching a fan came in February 1995, when Vernon Maxwell of the Houston Rockets pummeled a spectator in Portland. The league suspended him for 10 games and fined him $20,000.

Among the harshest non-drug-related penalties in NBA history was a one-year suspension of Latrell Sprewell -- later reduced to 68 games -- for choking Golden State Warriors coach P.J. Carlesimo at practice.

Kermit Washington of the Los Angeles Lakers drew a 60-day (26-game) suspension in 1977 for a punch that broke the jaw of the Houston Rockets' Rudy Tomjanovich during a game, while Dennis Rodman was suspended 11 games for kicking a courtside cameraman in the groin and six games for head-butting a referee.

Artest was benched for two games this month for asking Pacers coach Rick Carlisle for time off because of a busy schedule that included promoting a rap album.

Artest was suspended twice by the NBA last season, once for leaving the bench during a fracas at a Pacers-Celtics playoff game; the other for elbowing Portland's Derek Anderson. During the 2002-03 season, Artest was suspended five times by the NBA and once by the Pacers for a total of 12 games.

Artest also once grabbed a television camera and smashed it to the ground after a loss to the Knicks two years ago.
 
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Well now Ron has the whole season and post season to puch is album and he sould sice I am guessing he might need the money now. Suspended with out pay and no dout a few million dollars in civil suits comming down the pike is bad news.
 
Bricklayer said:
I was thinking the same thing. Kind of the ultimate triumph of fans actually having an effect on the outcome, not only of a game, but of an entire season. Detroit is now alone as the prohibitive favorite in the East unless Shaq can stop them.
Th fans did NOT take the Pacers out of the running, Artest did. Bird knew he was trouble waitng to happen and did not get rid of him when he had the chance now the team will suffer for Birds bad decison and Artests uncontrollable anger. I suspect Ron will be waived by Indy, he has worn out his welcome. He not only took him self out this time but drug other players down as well and has given the franchise a blak eye. Sure the Detroit fans involved were classless thugs, but it's not like they ran out on court after Ron first.
 
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HndsmCelt said:
Th fans did NOT take the Pacers out of the running, Artest did. Bird knew he was trouble waitng to happne and did not get rid of him when he had the chance now the team will suffer for Birds bad decisona nd Artests uncontrollable anger. I suspect Ron will be waived by Indy, he has worn out his welcome. He not only took him slef out this time but drug other palyers down as well and has given the franchise a balk eye. Sure the Detroit fans involved wre classless thugs, but it's not like they ran out on court after Ron first.
Exactly!
 
by then, we can pick him up to back up Pedja..........:)
(just kidding!! I don't want to see the trouble in Sac-town:mad: )
 
HndsmCelt said:
Th fans did NOT take the Pacers out of the running, Artest did. Bird knew he was trouble waitng to happne and did not get rid of him when he had the chance now the team will suffer for Birds bad decisona nd Artests uncontrollable anger. I suspect Ron will be waived by Indy, he has worn out his welcome. He not only took him slef out this time but drug other palyers down as well and has given the franchise a balk eye. Sure the Detroit fans involved wre classless thugs, but it's not like they ran out on court after Ron first.
Disagree -- the fans took an in control situation and turned it into an out of control situation that benefitted their team immensely in the long run. That they had a likely target and assistant in Artest is after the point. As mentioned -- try what that fan did on a pickup court, see what happens. I can't guarantee punches, but I can guarantee a heated confrontation. There was clear provocation. Overreaction of course. But what happened goes far beyond mere fighting words (which BTW have legal significance).
 
Bricklayer said:
Disagree -- the fans took an in control situation and turned it into an out of control situation that benefitted their team immensely in the long run. That they had a likely target and assistant in Artest is after the point. As mentioned -- try what that fan did on a pickup court, see what happens. I can't guarantee punches, but I can guarantee a heated confrontation. There was clear provocation. Overreaction of course. But what happened goes far beyond mere fighting words (which BTW have legal significance).
Interesting you would invoke Fighting Words Doctrin to virtualy justify Artests response to simple asult by esclating the situation inot not only asault and batery, but trigering a breach of peace. Not sure the fighting words doctrin will help Ron in court and it obviously did not help him with the NBA. Don't get me wrong I am in NO WAY excusing the fans behavior nor ignoring their impact in escalinting a situation, but throwing stuff at players has gone on probalby all the way back to the original olympic game and palyers have always been expected to keep their cool and let security deal with the problem. Had Ron done so one fan would be out on his ear and probably facing charges. Several years ago when I taught HS I reffereed a few Basketball games and unpired a littlebase ball. On ocasion I was hit in the back of the head with a piece of ice from a drink. As a rational human being I did not deck the fan in retaliation but the local police did ask if I wanted to press asault charges.
Once Ron entered the stands HE created volitile situation, when he hit the fan he gave the crowd the power to change his teams season and his NBA future. The moron who threw the beer was not the first fan to do so and even though Artest is not the first palyer to go after a fan, this time a riot broke out, bad luck for Ron other wise he might only be siting out 10 or so games. BUT the NBA has to make an example of Artest other wise the next time a fan throws a cup of beer or a bottle they very well may have the power to change a teams future when the palyer hit goes into the stands and ends up doing a year for asuault.
 
Mad D said:
when they say for the rest of the season, do they mean playoffs too?
Playoffs?

s_mora_i.jpg


Is that a joke? If the suspensions stand as is, the Pacers will be lucky to win 30 games over the remainder of the season.
 
The fighting words doctrine derives from a basic observation about human nature -- that the guy who throws the first punch isn't always the one who starts the fight. And that if sufficiently provoked, the other guy WILL respond.

Not an absolute defense of course, but if I come up and throw a drink in your face and then you haul off and hit me, its not really reasonable to say "that bad ole Hndsm starting a fight like that". I started it.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Playoffs?

s_mora_i.jpg


Is that a joke? If the suspensions stand as is, the Pacers will be lucky to win 30 games over the remainder of the season.

which might end up being enough in the eastern conference :D
 
This can *not* be allowed to happen again. The message from Stern & Co was severe and completely warranted IMO. The fans were out of hand, but you can NOT justify taking justice into your own hands. Sorry it's just an absurd notion to me.

These guys make millions of dollars--were assumedly NOT drunk and they couldn't just keep some semblance of cool?

I was somewhat intrigued with the idea of Artest coming to the Kings, but man oh man he is obviously a loose cannon completely out of control. His history of trouble led in part to this severe suspension, and I'm guessing even after he does return his troublemaking days will not be over.

The message from this is clear to me and one I completely agree with:

PLAYERS SHOULD NOT ATTACK/RESPOND IN ANY WAY TO FANS IN THE STANDS NO MATTER WHAT!
 
Bricklayer said:
The fighting words doctrine derives from a basic observation about human nature -- that the guy who throws the first punch isn't always the one who starts the fight. And that if sufficiently provoked, the other guy WILL respond.

Not an absolute defense of course, but if I come up and throw a drink in your face and then you haul off and hit me, its not really reasonable to say "that bad ole Hndsm starting a fight like that". I started it.
I have some understanding of the fighting wods doctrine, and I doubt if it will apply here any more than it did in Cohen Vs California. Might work for a bar fight, but not when a fan trhws beer on an athleet and the athleet jumps up and hit a fan (there is some specualtion that the fan Artest hit was not even the guy who threw the beer/object)
 
HndsmCelt said:
I have some understanding of the fighting wods doctrine, and I doubt if it will apply here any more than it did in Cohen Vs California. Might work for a bar fight, but not when a fan trhws beer on an athleet and the athleet jumps up and hit a fan (there is some specualtion that the fan Artest hit was not even the guy who threw the beer/object)
fighting "words" won;t even be an issue here. Fact of the matter is that Artest was the victim of an assault -- a crime. No need for fighting words.

And of course that crime will apply legally. Not going to get him off, but its an obviousn mitigating factor. he didn;t start it. Didn't go berzerk for no reason. Somebody assualted him, he responded with out of control force (hence no self defense). But the provocation is there.
 
I didn't read the thread but I thought I'd throw this in:

It was proven and shown on a Detroit news station in slow-motion that the guy who threw the bottle was the guy with the white hat and blue Wallace jersey, the same one who threw 2 rabbit hooks at Artest later...
 
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I don't see the correlation between what the bozo did in throwing the beer at Artest and the apparent idea that it was somehow contrived by Detroit fans to take out their rivals...

It seems that some of you are saying the two are tied together. My thought is that while the end result of the beer tossing was incredibly lucky for the Pistons and unlucky for the Pacers, it wasn't a planned consequence.

Am I missing the point?
 
Check out the other thread titled How do you feel about the suspensions...
 
VF21 said:
I don't see the correlation between what the bozo did in throwing the beer at Artest and the apparent idea that it was somehow contrived by Detroit fans to take out their rivals...

It seems that some of you are saying the two are tied together. My thought is that while the end result of the beer tossing was incredibly lucky for the Pistons and unlucky for the Pacers, it wasn't a planned consequence.

Am I missing the point?
Pistons fans obviously did not plan this -- they just thought they could do anything they wanted because they were fans.

The problem is also not with entire groups of fans in the future. But I think it IS with some drunk yahoo in the lower deck at some point who's going to turn his equally drunk friend, say "watch this" and chuck a bottle (or whatever) at a particularly hated rival with the thought in the back of his head that if the player responds, he (the fan) is going to be a hero.
 
I think the whole thing was disgusting. Disgusting foul by Ben Wallace, disgusting move by fan who through the beer, and it just got worse from there. I think severe consequences are required to prevent this behavior in the future. However, my question is, why is Artest out for over 2 times the number of games as the others? Granted, he was the first one in the stands, and one of the worst offenders, but he was also the only one responding to a direct attack versus just getting in on the action. In my mind, although he overreacted, his response was more reasonable that the guys who just charged in there swinging.
 
Mr. Bricklayer - But if the fans in Detroit are sufficiently punished for their actions, won't that serve as a deterrent?

And if Stern's actions are sufficiently strict to get the message to the players not to respond no matter what, won't they also stay in line?
 
love_them_kings said:
I think the whole thing was disgusting. Disgusting foul by Ben Wallace, disgusting move by fan who through the beer, and it just got worse from there. I think severe consequences are required to prevent this behavior in the future. However, my question is, why is Artest out for over 2 times the number of games as the others? Granted, he was the first one in the stands, and one of the worst offenders, but he was also the only one responding to a direct attack versus just getting in on the action. In my mind, although he overreacted, his response was more reasonable that the guys who just charged in there swinging.
WORD.

Artest is just the goat in this case.
 
does indy still pay artest? and if they dont can they use that money to sign a FA or as part of a trade?
 
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