Steve Kerr on Vlade

[Bricklayer]

wow you guys have a bad opinion of vlade..not saying that i agree with kerr but just didnt expect a kings board to have such comments about vlade. I guess thats what happends when you go to the lakers.

you can have a very good opinion of Vlade and still not buy that a 36 yr old guy who will be lucky to average 10pts and 5rebs is the key to the division.

 

[AleksandarN]

you can have a very good opinion of Vlade and still not buy that a 36 yr old guy who will be lucky to average 10pts and 5rebs is the key to the division.

I think you missed the point of the articile. It is not so much his production that Kerr is implying but what Vlade brings to an organization (true leadship and sharing the ball) that the Lakers are missing badly.

 

[piksi]

I think you missed the point of the articile. It is not so much his production that Kerr is implying but what Vlade brings to an organization (true leadship and sharing the ball) that the Lakers are missing badly.

Most people around here just want to see numbers. Vlade's are not big anymore. Vlade is not and never was about numbers. Time will tell who was right or wrong.

 

[Ryle]

I think you missed the point of the articile. It is not so much his production that Kerr is implying but what Vlade brings to an organization (true leadship and sharing the ball) that the Lakers are missing badly.

Sorry, Kobe won't let anyone else lead or share the ball so it's pretty useless to think that Vlade can make a difference.

 

[vladetomiller]

well thats bound to happen, even the lakers fans are dissing shaq now and saying that he is not the MDE

My take is that Vlade can be a key contributor to the lakers success and be an influence on the foreign players (sasha and slava). He might be able to teach a few tricks to kobe and odom if they are willing to learn and kobe seems to that kind who wants to learn all the time. He is definitely not going to create problems and that in the nba of today is a big plus, cos we have seen scrubs like tmass create those stirs.

Vlade can be effective on the court if they try to run plays that utilize his skills, however if they run like crazy then we might just watch vlade jog up and down the court without getting involved in any plays. He will definitely be a huge plus in half court sets and with his shooting touch he can draw away the big men away from the basket to allow kobe to drive the lane.

He may not be that effective against centers like shaq and yao but thats just two of them and thats just 6 games in a season. For example when the lakers play the kings with a tandem of vlade/mihm against miller/tag i dont see any huge difference at this point which would tilt the game one way or other. Kings seem to have the advantage but thats not the advantage that shaq used to have on any center, or what duncan has on any PF other than KG

 

[Gargamel]

Sorry, Kobe won't let anyone else lead or share the ball so it's pretty useless to think that Vlade can make a difference.

No.

 

[MVP16]

Vlade still rules!!!

thanx Vlade and good luck in LaLa Land.


People u should show some respect to the former king.

 

[vladetomiller]

hey Pollard became a pogo stick here after he was traded, its been great so far for Vlade here. They are only talking about the ageing factor here

 

[VF21]

Most people around here just want to see numbers. Vlade's are not big anymore. Vlade is not and never was about numbers. Time will tell who was right or wrong.

Vlade is human; he's aging. Most of us around here are FANS of the team. We want to see the team do as well as possible. That's why we were glad when the King signed Brad Miller as the successor to Vlade.

Time will tell who was right or wrong about what? Whether or not we should have paid a back-up center (who is now injured, BTW) lots of money when his successor was already on the payroll. Vlade made a financial decision; the Kings made a financial decision.

We argued this a lot at the time. The NBA is a business. Both players and owners make decisions in their best interests in regards to the business.

The only thing time is going to tell in this situation is if Vlade has enough in the tank for another year or so. I hope he does, and I wish him well. I do not, however, regret the choices he and the Maloofs made.

 

[KA_2]

How is Vlade not relavant in the Pacific? The Kings lost the heart and soul of their team, and now all of the sudden he didn't matter and was expendable? Back peddling at its finest.

Rudy's supposedly installing a basic motion offense with Vlade in the high post, where he could easily average 5 apg. Combine his passing skills with 8-10 ppg and 4-6 rpg (depends on his minutes) and his leadership and presence in the locker-room, and you suddenly have something the Lakers have gained and the Kings have lost. Knowing that the Lakers and Kings are pretty much the only two teams in contention for the Pacific (barring a surprising run from the Suns), Vlade suddenly does become a difference maker.

Not only that, but can Vlade's influence on Peja and his ensuing trade demand really be deemed unimportant by Kings fans?

 

[karesk]

How is Vlade not relavant in the Pacific? The Kings lost the heart and soul of their team, and now all of the sudden he didn't matter and was expendable? Back peddling at its finest.

Rudy's supposedly installing a basic motion offense with Vlade in the high post, where he could easily average 5 apg. Combine his passing skills with 8-10 ppg and 4-6 rpg (depends on his minutes) and his leadership and presence in the locker-room, and you suddenly have something the Lakers have gained and the Kings have lost. Knowing that the Lakers and Kings are pretty much the only two teams in contention for the Pacific (barring a surprising run from the Suns), Vlade suddenly does become a difference maker.

Not only that, but can Vlade's influence on Peja and his ensuing trade demand really be deemed unimportant by Kings fans?

I can agree with the locker room part but your take on his statistical contribution is flawed. Maybe Vlade's replacement here (this may mean Ostertag or more minutes to Miller) will be a better fit and contribute more than he would. After all, you can only have 5 players on the court at the same time.

 

[KA_2]

I can agree with the locker room part but your take on his statistical contribution is flawed. Maybe Vlade's replacement here (this may mean Ostertag or more minutes to Miller) will be a better fit and contribute more than he would. After all, you can only have 5 players on the court at the same time.

That remains to be seen. For example, will Miller break down late in the year for the 4th season in a row? Will Webber be healthy most of the season, or ever again? I'm sure you remember how much of a boon Vlade was last season with all the injuries, especially to the front line. If the Kings have injuries to their big men this year, you know Tag will be able to produce the rebounds and blocks, but can he produce anywhere near the assists of Vlade? Heck, can Tag produce anywhere near the points of Vlade? Tag isn't even half as a good a scorer as Vlade, and Vlade's hardly an elite scorer.

And still, Vlade's numbers were superior to Tag's last season, in terms of overall court impact statistically.

 

[KA_2]

But I agree defensively, Tag was the perfect pickup, considering the pee poor market for centers these days. Was it worth losing Vlade over? Not if the Kings want to sniff a title. IMO, Vlade really brought all the intangibles off and on the court. The Kings have to rely on Miller and Webber now, one of whom is severely injury prone (Webber), and the other somewhat reliable. Vlade would have been a real key reserve by keeping the offense moving and defenses honest, something Tag has no ability to do whatsoever.

But we'll see.

 

[slugking50]

But I agree defensively, Tag was the perfect pickup, considering the pee poor market for centers these days. Was it worth losing Vlade over? Not if the Kings want to sniff a title. IMO, Vlade really brought all the intangibles off and on the court. The Kings have to rely on Miller and Webber now, one of whom is severely injury prone (Webber), and the other somewhat reliable. Vlade would have been a real key reserve by keeping the offense moving and defenses honest, something Tag has no ability to do whatsoever.

But we'll see.

Vlade was a shell of himself the later part of the season. Id much rather have Miller out there.

It was hard to keep a defense honest when Vlades set shot wasnt to reliable. He started to really put up and layup alot of bricks. It was to the point where having him on the floor was a detriment to the team.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't think you appreciate just how bad Vlade's rebounding and defense have slipped in the last few years -- there was a reason we slipped so dramatically defensively and on the boards last year, and Vlade's age was a significant part of that. In fact, it would not be an exaggeration to say that Vlade is one of the worst rebounding/defensive centers in the league at this point. It might only be a slight exaggeration to say he is THE worst. Vlade's replacement was brought in last year to do exactly that -- replace him. The best teams Sacramento ever had featured two skilled frontcourt players, and then a basher off the bench. That balance has been restored.

You can have all of the intangibles you want, but when your big man simply cannot play like a big man anymore, it puts tremendous pressure on the rest of the team. Intangibles are great...when you still have tangibles to back them up. Otherwise they are neutralized by all of the drawbacks. For the Lakers, combine Vlade with Brian Grant, who neither rebounded or blocked shots last year himself, and you have the worst rebounding frontcourt in the league with sub-zero defensive presence in the lane. When your small forward, assuming he does not toke up or resume his injury prone ways, is a good bet to lead the team in rebounding, that isn't good. When Chris Mihm, a foul magnet who is the ultimate anti-Vlade when it comes to passing and saavy, is the key to the entire frontcourt's rebounding and shot blocking, that's even worse.

Would have thought the Lakers would have learned their old man lesson last year -- I can specifically recall having a similar discussion with a Laker fan last year who kept on insisting that the four horsemen of the Lakers were all going to average 20 ppg despite their creakiness. Doesn't work that way. Old players may still have the same name, but they aren't the same player. Utah did just fine without Karl, Milwaulkee did just fine without Payton, and the Lakers really weren't much better than they had been in previous years. Now they want to pin their "key to the division" hopes on a 36yr old chain smoker who's fading fast? Please. Vlade still has his uses as a player and a lockerroom presence, but he's not the key to anybody's season anymore.

 

[andjel]

The last time Vlade was given opportunity to contribute (Mostly February and beginning of March, before Webber and/or Miller returned), he logged:
6.9 rebounds, 8.5 ast with 2.8 TO, block, steal and 9.6 points over 13 games.
I would not call this "shell of himself", or poor playing by any measure.

The reason to worry was his seeming inability to adjust to limitted minutes and lack of contribution when the offense is not going through his hands.

His was never athletic, and his defense did deteriorate (spelling?), but I would connect Kings slip in boards more to the absence of the leading rebounder on the team for most of the season, than 1.5 boards Vlade grabbed less.

While his shape is not something to brag about, people forget that he was not benched becouse he was playing poorly or becouse he was without breath.

 

[vladetomiller]

Hmm this really gets interesting, now people are beginning to say bad things about vlade. I suppose Brick didnt know about the smoking habits when vlade was still a king, i have seen Brick's matchups and the kings had an advantage over any other team in the center position other than the lakers. I perfectly agreed with him then, but i am not going to change my mind on vlade cos he left the kings. In fact the vlade/miller combo i thought would be even with shaq, we never got to see that. However i am not going to change my opinion on vlade cos he left the kings.

He was never a great rebounder and we have always madde fun of his 3" vertical, but that was there even last year and the years before. He may not be a Shaq for the lakers but he will be a vlade for the lakers and both parties know that, and as most kings fans agreed before the offseason changes, vlade can still contribute and he is VALUABLE to any team.

 

[VF21]

You are interpreting the comments in the worst possible light. I think you need to accept that Vlade had most obviously begun the decline all athletes go through. In fact, your board name is very telling. Vlade was going to be passing the torch on to Miller this season... Why? Because his best years were behind him.

Vlade was the right center at the right time for this franchise to turn around and become one of the league's elites. No one is taking that away from him. He was a powerful presence on and off the court, and as a veteran Kings fan, I will be eternally grateful for the years he gave all of us.

Now, however, Vlade isn't the player he once was. I don't know what your opinion is that you're never going to change, but eventually you're going to have to realize that players age...some gracefully and some not so gracefully. Inevitably, however, they all reach the point where they quit playing.

Yes, Vlade will be a Vlade for the Lakers (whatever the heck that means). What he won't be and CANNOT be is one of the premiere centers in the league. He just doesn't have it any longer...

The Vlade fan in me mourns his departure. The Kings fan part of me is glad he went back to where his career started, to end up with the man who showed the most faith in him - Magic Johnson. AND I'm awfully glad we were able to get someone like Brad Miller to step up in Vlade's place.

That's not saying bad things. It's being realistic and it's respecting Vlade Divac enough to be honest about him.

 

[KA_2]

Vlade still has his uses as a player and a lockerroom presence, but he's not the key to anybody's season anymore.

You really didn't give any reasoning why. Being "old" is pretty much your entire argument. Besides age, the Kings' big men resemble much of the same things the Lakers' big men do; drugs, injuries, and run-ins with the law. And even more importantly, that's your franchise player.

And Grant played out of position at center last season, harder for him to board. And he'll be playing less minutes overall now that Mihm may move to PF for spot minutes, which means he'll have more juice in the knees. If Malone comes back, even more rest.

 

[mcsluggo]

well yes, you are absolutely correct. Once you subtract talent and age the laker's front line and the King's front line are remarkably similar.

 

[Kingsgurl]

He was never a great rebounder and we have always madde fun of his 3" vertical, but that was there even last year and the years before

So, we were allowed to make fun of his smoking and his lack of vert only while he remained a King? Now that he is a laker, we shouldn't mention it?

 

[Packt]

You really didn't give any reasoning why. Being "old" is pretty much your entire argument. Besides age, the Kings' big men resemble much of the same things the Lakers' big men do; drugs, injuries, and run-ins with the law. And even more importantly, that's your franchise player.

And Grant played out of position at center last season, harder for him to board. And he'll be playing less minutes overall now that Mihm may move to PF for spot minutes, which means he'll have more juice in the knees. If Malone comes back, even more rest.

Being old is a valid argument is it not. Brick did mention that his defense and rebounding have declined. It was Kerr's article that didn't provide much reasoning.

I don't doubt that there will be games where Vlade's presence and abilities will be the primary factor in the Lakers getting a W. He'll have his good games, but it's about consistency. He showed last year his abilities were most useful when playing longer minutes. Towards the end of the year he played less minutes and wasn't quite as effective. Nor did he look happy about playing less minutes. It was a good decision to bring in Mihm. He’s not high on talent but he can get up and down the floor well. With the Lakers group of young players they’ll want to run a lot, we’ll see how Vlade fits in with that.

Vlade's biggest influence will be in the locker room, and I wonder if a big reason for signing him was primarily for Sasha's transition to the NBA.

 

[Gargamel]

You can have all of the intangibles you want, but when your big man simply cannot play like a big man anymore, it puts tremendous pressure on the rest of the team. Intangibles are great...when you still have tangibles to back them up. Otherwise they are neutralized by all of the drawbacks. For the Lakers, combine Vlade with Brian Grant, who neither rebounded or blocked shots last year himself, and you have the worst rebounding frontcourt in the league with sub-zero defensive presence in the lane. When your small forward, assuming he does not toke up or resume his injury prone ways, is a good bet to lead the team in rebounding, that isn't good. When Chris Mihm, a foul magnet who is the ultimate anti-Vlade when it comes to passing and saavy, is the key to the entire frontcourt's rebounding and shot blocking, that's even worse.

It's safe to say that's the pessimistic outlook. I perceive Divac, Mihm, Odom, and Grant as "front line by committee". They'll all add a little here and there. Vlade will do his passing; Mihm will hopefully become a more consistent alterer (he blocked and/or altered at least 8 shots in his first game, which gives hope); Grant will be a grunt; and anything Odom provides in big man skill areas is a bonus.

You can't replace what Shaq alone provided in the lane (much less Shaq and Malone), but their focus as a team can't and won't be on dominating the lane anyway.

 

[VF21]

Gargamel - That all sounds great, the center by committee thing. I see a slight draw-back, however. You can only have one of them on the court at a time. Vlade can pass, but he can't block a shot to save his life. Odom can do stuff, but he can't pass. Etc.

I find it somehow amusing that YOU now have a picture of Vlade as your avatar, and I am using a cartoon character. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[vladetomiller]

You really didn't give any reasoning why. Being "old" is pretty much your entire argument. Besides age, the Kings' big men resemble much of the same things the Lakers' big men do; drugs, injuries, and run-ins with the law. And even more importantly, that's your franchise player.

And Grant played out of position at center last season, harder for him to board. And he'll be playing less minutes overall now that Mihm may move to PF for spot minutes, which means he'll have more juice in the knees. If Malone comes back, even more rest.

Well said.

(some) People here love to take those backhanded stabs at some other teams, but dont realize that their team and probably every other team has the same problem. I guess as much as the kings fans have hope in webber returning to his form of 2001 or so, they feel pessimistic about the other teams chances.

Since it all started with the kerr prediction, i think he is right and vlade is still a player who can change the games outcome. however he may not have the consistency and the lakers will loose lots of games in a back to back situation where their big men cannot run the floor as much, due to the age factor.

But i suppose those are the same problems that the kings had last year and they were kinda successfull until someone came back to the team

 

[Kingsgurl]

(some) People here love to take those backhanded stabs at some other teams, but dont realize that their team and probably every other team has the same problem

Actually, we DID have the same problem up until last year (an aging Vlade whose production was slowly dropping off) That's why we made the trade for Miller. Now age isn't an issue with our Center rotation. That's not a stab at Vlade (although I notice you got a nice dig in toward one of OUR players in your post) He can't help it that he is aging, we aren't trying to belittle him, it's just a fact. It is a testament to his craftiness as a player that he WAS able to be effective in different ways in the early going of last season (more passing, to make up for the fact that he wasn't getting in there and mixing it up quite like he used to. His boards dropped off, but he played well OFFENSIVELY.
Watch a game from 01-02, then watch a game from the BEGINNING of last season, when Vlade was performing well. There is a HUGE difference in the way he approached his role.

 

[VF21]

KA 2 and vladetomiller - Let's just see what happens, okay? I find it really amusing that you're defending Vlade from our "attacks" when you (meaning Laker fans) were always so quick to dump on him, call him "floppy," etc. when he was still a King.

We have rooted for Vlade and supported him since 1999. We've earned the right to be critical about him; we know him better than you possibly could.

He's not what he once was. Period.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Vlade will share minutes with Mihm. I'd say, 50-50. Mihm is going to be a solid player. Using projections, his numbers come pretty close to Miller's numbers with Mihm coming out higher in the shots blocked department. He needs to polish some areas of his game like his low post offense, the mid-range jumper, and rebounding. Give him a year or two.

Getting back to Vlade, I always thought Vlade would end up coming back to LA to finish his career. He should be playing about 20-25 minutes in the regular season and probably 20-30 minutes in the post season barring injuries.

Overall, the Lakers got Vlade for what he can still bring to the table as well as buy time for the Lakers. He will help the Lakers stay competitive. When his contract is done, it frees up some cap space for another player. Also, Grant's contract is done, the Lakers should be poised to make a pitch to the likes of Magloire, Amare Stoudemire, or even Yao Ming.

While I doubt that Vlade will be what Kerr is predicting him to be, he won't be as bad a player that a lot of fans who adored him when he was a King now predict him to be.

 

[Kingsgurl]

When his contract is done, it frees up some cap space for another player. Also, Grant's contract is done, the Lakers should be poised to make a pitch to the likes of Magloire, Amare Stoudemire, or even Yao Ming.

Odd, Hoopshype shows Grants contract as being through 06-07, Benders site says he has a Player option in 05 (why would he want to excercise that?) Without both of them, you are still well over the cap. Think Ming will sign for the MLE?

He should be playing about 20-25 minutes in the regular season and probably 20-30 minutes in the post season barring injuries.

I'm interested to see how that works out. My main concern before Vlade left was how he was going to be effective in that kind of role and with those types of minutes. His track record says, not very.

 

[6th]

While I doubt that Vlade will be what Kerr is predicting him to be, he won't be as bad a player that a lot of fans who adored him when he was a King now predict him to be.

I think that the Laker fans have it all wrong. So, let me just say that many of us who adored Vlade when he was a King, still do. I hope Vlade does well. I really really do. Many of us have our doubts (for various reasons) that he will be as effective as he once was. Does that mean that we don't want him to be, however? Heck no!!!!

So, for me, in a nutshell, I hope Vlade has a nice finish to his career. I still adore him. And, I hope the Lakers get their butts whipped every time out.