Steve Kerr on Vlade

[Bricklayer]

According to RealGM Kobe and Odom's contracts together come out to over half the cap (about $26 mil this year, $32mil by 07/08), and Grant's deal isn't off the books until 07/08. Even when he's gone, unless you haven't signed ANYBODY else to anything in the interim -- Butler walks, Mihm walks, never get a PG etc., there's just no way the Lakers will be able to afford another max player.

 

[Freakout]

According to RealGM Kobe and Odom's contracts together come out to over half the cap (about $26 mil this year, $32mil by 07/08), and Grant's deal isn't off the books until 07/08. Even when he's gone, unless you haven't signed ANYBODY else to anything in the interim -- Butler walks, Mihm walks, never get a PG etc., there's just no way the Lakers will be able to afford another max player.

Yeah only real option LA has is drafting smart or shipping Odom in a deal. If they get extremely lucky they have a chance of moving Grants deal in its last year to a team looking to move a player or two to clear cap room. Another option would be trading Grant (his contract) to a team looking to move a player with a even longer deal. An example would be the Nets who appear to be rebuilding and Kidds contract which has 3 more years on it compared to Grants. Of course LA would have to give up picks and probally a young player like Caron which isn't something they would want to really do. Trades happen sometimes that leave us scratching our heads, just look at Rasheed landing in Detroit. It won't be easy but there are possibilites.

 

[sloter]

I wish all the assessments of just how much Vlade was valuable to this team to be postponed until after this season.

 

[Kingsgurl]

An example would be the Nets who appear to be rebuilding and Kidds contract which has 3 more years on it compared to Grants. Of course LA would have to give up picks and probally a young player like Caron which isn't something they would want to really do.

I'm not sure adding an aging, recovering from knee surgery, PG with an even longer deal would be the direction they would want to be heading, ESPECIALLY if they have to give up youth to do it. Didn't they learn with Payton?

 

[crapus]

Vlade's' only good for 20 minutes a night at most. I guess you are being unselfish when you sit on the bench most of the game and let the other guys play.

 

[6th]

sloter, if you mean to the Lakers, of course an assessment of how valuable he was to the team must wait until the season is over. No one is saying he will not be valuable. I am saying that he will not be as valuable as the Lakers hope, or as he has been in the past. That is a guess. Just like ranking teams before a season starts is simply a guess. When we guess, we try and take certain information into account, however, that does not mean it is foolproof.

 

[Freakout]

I'm not sure adding an aging, recovering from knee surgery, PG with an even longer deal would be the direction they would want to be heading, ESPECIALLY if they have to give up youth to do it. Didn't they learn with Payton?

It was an example but Kidd is only what 32? Payton was 36. Plus its not like anyone is forcing him to play in the triangle offense. I hated Gary's sour puss attitude last season but I expect him to put up good numbers this season for Boston in a less structured offense. Rudy T. wants the Lakers to push the ball every chance they get and its hard to deny Kidd is great in the open court. But you're right coming off the same surgery as Webber had will be hard for a guy that loves to run nonstop.

 

[Kingsgurl]

Have you taken a good look at Vlade's play when he plays 20 minutes a game? He's like a big locomotive that takes time to gather speed.

BTW, the following is an excerpt from a post a long time ago, early July, when Vlade was still a King.
This is from last years play offs.

Game 2, loss, Vlade, 26 minutes, 4 points. He DID have 6 assists and no turnovers, which was a turn around for the latter part of the season. Of the Kings that played, he DID outscore Peeler, no one else.
Game 7, 21 minutes, 7 points, 0 assists, 1 turnover. 6 boards though, from your starting Center!
Against Dalles, Game 1, he did score 12 points, unfortunately, he has 2 rebounds, 2 assists and 2 turnovers
Game 2, 20 minutes, 4 points, 0 assists and 3 turnovers
Game 3, 18 minutes, 4 points, 1 assist, 5 boards, 1 turnover. The Kings score more then 100 points, and LOSE.
Game 4, 11 minutes, 4 points (sensing a pattern here?) 0 assists, 6 boards, 1 turn.
Game 5, 4 minutes, 2 points, 1 board, 0 turns, 0 assists.

It was this type of performances which led me to believe he would not be the answer for the Kings playing 20 minutes a night, not if what we needed was rebounding and altering/blocking shots.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

sloter, if you mean to the Lakers, of course an assessment of how valuable he was to the team must wait until the season is over. No one is saying he will not be valuable. I am saying that he will not be as valuable as the Lakers hope, or as he has been in the past. That is a guess. Just like ranking teams before a season starts is simply a guess. When we guess, we try and take certain information into account, however, that does not mean it is foolproof.

What kind of expectations do the Lakers have for Vlade?

 

[Lamar_Odom]

According to RealGM Kobe and Odom's contracts together come out to over half the cap (about $26 mil this year, $32mil by 07/08), and Grant's deal isn't off the books until 07/08. Even when he's gone, unless you haven't signed ANYBODY else to anything in the interim -- Butler walks, Mihm walks, never get a PG etc., there's just no way the Lakers will be able to afford another max player.

I suppose. If they can affort Grant at max now, I guess they won't be able to when his contract expires.

 

[Bricklayer]

I suppose. If they can affort Grant at max now, I guess they won't be able to when his contract expires.

The difference is that the Lakers are far far over the cap with Grant now ($27 mil in fact, about the same as us). They could not have signed him off the open market at his price -- the only way L.A. could get a contract that big was via trade. And unless they are basically a two man team by 07-08 (which wouldn't be a good sign at all for the Lakers) they'll probably still be at or over the cap after Grant is gone (if you somehow just subtracted his entire salary right now the Lakers would still be over the cap and only able to sign players with the exception -- can get good players at that level, but not superstars).

 

[vladetomiller]

Kingsgurl here is a statement by one of the posters here

"When your small forward, assuming he does not toke up or resume his injury prone ways, is a good bet to lead the team in rebounding, that isn't good."

Thats what i was talking about, the kings superstar, franchise player also fits exactly into that description and thats the problem.

 

[VF21]

I'm pretty sure that equine has expired, vladetomiller. You can probably quit flagellating it now.

 

[vladetomiller]

KA 2 and vladetomiller - Let's just see what happens, okay? I find it really amusing that you're defending Vlade from our "attacks" when you (meaning Laker fans) were always so quick to dump on him, call him "floppy," etc. when he was still a King.

We have rooted for Vlade and supported him since 1999. We've earned the right to be critical about him; we know him better than you possibly could.

He's not what he once was. Period.

I dont like the way you branded me a laker fan, i will not say that i am not a laker fan, but thats not all there is. I have a few favourite teams and lakers are one among them, i try to talk objectively and maybe on a kings board sometimes that might look odd. I know that even you had some laker feelings from the vlade days (or i think you did).

I like good players, teams and coaches however i will not be blind with any team and i will not be pessimistic with any team either. Some of my predictions could be wrong by the end of the season but thats just my prediction which also involves some conspiracy theory

I think the warriors will make an imapact this year and will make the playoffs, the lakers might get into the WCF and the rockets might play the heat in the finals. The first one based on what i have seen with the warriors so far and the other two based on conspiracy theories. I predicted three things last year and two were right - Wolves made it to the WCF, lakers won the WCF and they lost in the finals which i thought they would win (big market team, superstars playing etc ). However i didnt think of another big market team coming from the east, i thought the pacers would take that spot (but didnt predict here though ) and actually didnt take the pistons that very seriously last year.

Based on just talent i think the lakers will make the playoffs and if they do well make it to the top 4. I really admire certail players and kobe is one of them (KG, kobe, duncan, AK are in the top of my list )

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Not bad. Not bad at all.

 

[Gargamel]

What kind of expectations do the Lakers have for Vlade?

Probably less than their expectations of Mihm, which is why the notion that Vlade is the key to the season was bullkerr.

 

[Kingsgurl]

I dont like the way you branded me a laker fan, i will not say that i am not a laker fan, but thats not all there is. I have a few favourite teams and lakers are one among them, i try to talk objectively and maybe on a kings board sometimes that might look odd. I know that even you had some laker feelings from the vlade days (or i think you did).

I like good players, teams and coaches however i will not be blind with any team and i will not be pessimistic with any team either. Some of my predictions could be wrong by the end of the season but thats just my prediction which also involves some conspiracy theory

I think the warriors will make an imapact this year and will make the playoffs, the lakers might get into the WCF and the rockets might play the heat in the finals. The first one based on what i have seen with the warriors so far and the other two based on conspiracy theories. I predicted three things last year and two were right - Wolves made it to the WCF, lakers won the WCF and they lost in the finals which i thought they would win (big market team, superstars playing etc ). However i didnt think of another big market team coming from the east, i thought the pacers would take that spot (but didnt predict here though ) and actually didnt take the pistons that very seriously last year.

Based on just talent i think the lakers will make the playoffs and if they do well make it to the top 4. I really admire certail players and kobe is one of them (KG, kobe, duncan, AK are in the top of my list )

Being a laker fan isn't the problem, there are several very well respected laker fans on this site. I think the sticking point comes when you purport yourself to be a Kings fan, even your screen name is slightly misleading (or at least it was until Vlade left Just be real. I enjoy debating with you myself. You don't have to fib to kick it

 

[6th]

What kind of expectations do the Lakers have for Vlade?

I don't know. You will have to ask the Lakers that question since I have no affiliation with (or love for) that organization.

However, I will say that considering the contract they gave him, the Lakers obviously have more expectations than I think he can give them (at this age). Doesn't mean I don't still love him. It means that as he ages (and the shape he keeps himself in), I think that they may not get what they hoped for when they offered him the money.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

I don't know. You will have to ask the Lakers that question since I have no affiliation with (or love for) that organization.

However, I will say that considering the contract they gave him, the Lakers obviously have more expectations than I think he can give them (at this age). Doesn't mean I don't still love him. It means that as he ages (and the shape he keeps himself in), I think that they may not get what they hoped for when they offered him the money.

You sounded very convincing that you knew something the rest of us don't. He got the MLE - that's less than the expectations the Kings had for him.

And what are MLEs worth these days? Keon Clark signed for the MLE when he played for the Kings. GP had the MLE when he played for the Lakers last year. It's virtually worth zilch. 2 years, that's what the Lakers want out of him while developing Mihm.

 

[Kingsgurl]

He got the MLE - that's less than the expectations the Kings had for him

Actually, we only offered him half the MLE, apparently that's all the organization was expecting him to produce this upcoming year The lakers needed a starting Center, the Kings just needed a back up.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Actually, we only offered him half the MLE, apparently that's all the organization was expecting him to produce this upcoming year The lakers needed a starting Center, the Kings just needed a back up.

That's right. But a lot of natives in this board believe that the Lakers are hoping to get the Vlade of old to be the Vlade they got. I don't believe that's the expectation. On the other hand, I believe the Lakers expect more from Vlade than half of the MLE. That was a slap to Vlade's face - he's capable of coming up with more than that even at age 36.

 

[VF21]

That's right. But a lot of natives in this board believe that the Lakers are hoping to get the Vlade of old to be the Vlade they got. I don't believe that's the expectation. On the other hand, I believe the Lakers expect more from Vlade than half of the MLE. That was a slap to Vlade's face - he's capable of coming up with more than that even at age 36.

A slap to Vlade's face?

Perhaps, from a Laker fan viewpoint.

From a Kings fan viewpoint, I thought Vlade slapped us in the face...in a manner of speaking.

All along he said we were his first choice; he loved us (the fans), he loved the franchise, he loved his fellow players, etc.

So, I think some of us were really hoping he would do what he had even talked about doing a couple of years ago - taking a lower salary so he could stay with the Kings and try to complete his task here.

He didn't. He chose the LA Lakers, our arch-nemesis. He chose the money, knowing how hard-pressed the Kings franchise is for cash. He has made A LOT of money off this franchise. His charities have flourished with donations from loyal Kings fans. He COULD have chosen to stay.

This is a very sensitive topic for Kings fans. We have loved and admired Vlade for a long time. We wish him well since he chose to return to LA, but we're not going to be singing his praises. He's now a Laker.

I'd try to tell you to put yourself into our position and see how you would feel, but I honestly cannot think of any Laker player who has held the same spot in fans hearts as Vlade did in ours.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

A slap to Vlade's face?

Perhaps, from a Laker fan viewpoint.

From a Kings fan viewpoint, I thought Vlade slapped us in the face...in a manner of speaking.

All along he said we were his first choice; he loved us (the fans), he loved the f... ranchise, he loved his fellow players, etc.

So, I think some of us were really hoping he would do what he had even talked about doing a couple of years ago - taking a lower salary so he could stay with the Kings and try to complete his task here.

He didn't. He chose the LA Lakers, our arch-nemesis. He chose the money, knowing how hard-pressed the Kings f... ranchise is for cash. He has made A LOT of money off this f... ranchise. His charities have flourished with donations from loyal Kings fans. He COULD have chosen to stay.

This is a very sensitive topic for Kings fans. We have loved and admired Vlade for a long time. We wish him well since he chose to return to LA, but we're not going to be singing his praises. He's now a Laker.

I'd try to tell you to put yourself into our position and see how you would feel, but I honestly cannot think of any Laker player who has held the same spot in fans hearts as Vlade did in ours.

$2.5 million is nothing to the Maloofs and means more to Vlade than them. If they offered him the MLE, he would still be a King but the Kings probably had their eyes set on Ostertag already. The Lakers showed him some love/respect and so he's there. Bottomline: The Kings didn't want Vlade back so he's gone.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

And speaking of how hard pressed for cash the Kings were, didn't they spend the money Vlade was seeking on Ostertag? It does not look like they are that strapped for cash, does it?

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Lastly, as far as making a lot of money from the Kings, don't you guys feel like he earned it?

 

[6th]

Lastly, as far as making a lot of money from the Kings, don't you guys feel like he earned it?

Earned it? Vlade has already been paid. He had a huge contract the past couple of years (and more)...much more than he ever gave back because of his diminishing skills. Am I complaining? Heck NO! However, that doesn't mean I think we should continue to throw good money after bad, so to speak.

The Kings had already gone out and got Vlade's replacement (Miller) expecting that he planned to retire. Now, since Vlade decided he wanted to play another couple of years....great...but that doesn't mean the Kings should keep paying him more than he is worth to them. If he is worth more to the Lakers, then fine.

Another thing we have discussed in previous threads is that Vlade would get bench minutes now that we have Miller. When he signed with the Lakers, he expected to be the starter...taking Shaq's place (so to speak). If that is important to him...then again...fine.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Thanks. But I don't believe you answered the question head on.

 

[6th]

Thanks. But I don't believe you answered the question head on.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, Lamar. I intended to have my 1st paragraph answer that and give the reason why. That was a "no" by the way.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

So Vlade didn't deserve the money he got from the Kings, huh? Fair enough.

 

[6th]

So Vlade didn't deserve the money he got from the Kings, huh? Fair enough.

Deserve?.......mmm.....tough word. Let's just say "earn", but then with the grossly huge salaries they pay players now a days...who does?