State of the Kings:

[Kingster]

Derek Fisher and Steve Blake are inf act good enough to get you to the playoffs, assuming the rest of the personnel are just that good.

Yeah, it's all relative and a matter of degree, which means that IT can get you a championship if he has a young Kobe and Shaq to play with, or Jordan and Pippen.

 

[bajaden]

We don't disagree. All I'm saying is that if this team doesn't go to the playoffs, it's not IT. I don't know if IT can get you to the championship or not, but we have to get real - this team is soooooooo far from a championship it's ridiculous even talking about it championship at this point. Let's just figure out how to get to the playoffs, and there's no doubt in my mind that IT is good enough to get you there, if other issues are addressed on this team.

I agree that were a long way from a championship team, maybe a playoff team, but its not about what you and I say or think, its about what the Kings management thinks. If you want to build a team that has a chance to get to the playoffs, and perhaps a championship some day, you start building it now. You start putting the pieces in place that will get you there. Does anyone in their right mind think that a starting lineup of Cousins, Thompson, Johnson, Evans, and Thomas will ever win a championship? And if not, then it needs to be changed.

I realize you and I are just trying to make the best of what we have. Sadly what we have isn't good enough. You win with skilled players. Preferly athletic one's. Players that can defend, Shoot the ball, pass the ball, handle the ball and have good BBIQ. So who do we have that fits that bill. Cousins? Yes! I. Thomas? Yeah, I'd say. J. Thompson? Yep! Brooks? Yep, I'd throw him into that group. Salmons? I'd say yes. After that, just about everyone else has some sort of flaw. They can defend, but they can't shoot. They can shoot, but they can't defend. There are the borderline players like Thornton who puts out an valiant effort on both sides, but he is in fact more of a volume shooter than he is a good shooter.

Now you can hide a poor defender that can shoot on a good defensive team, and you can hide a good defender that can't shoot on a good offensive team. Our problem, is that we just have too dammed many of those that can't shoot, and the only place most of them should be hiding is on the bench. Look, I'm Mr. Optimism, but facts are facts. This team is going nowhere with two players playing on the perimeter in the starting lineup that can't hit an outside shot. Tyreke has to start making those shots, and if he can't, then he should be replaced with Thornton, who at least will be guarded. Either that, or trade for a SF that can defend and hit an outside shot.

By the way, I haven't forgotten about Cisco. I just don't see him in our future plans beyond this year, unless he comes back as an assistant coach, or he's our big freeagent signing next offseason.

 

[Kingster]

I agree that were a long way from a championship team, maybe a playoff team, but its not about what you and I say or think, its about what the Kings management thinks. If you want to build a team that has a chance to get to the playoffs, and perhaps a championship some day, you start building it now. You start putting the pieces in place that will get you there. Does anyone in their right mind think that a starting lineup of Cousins, Thompson, Johnson, Evans, and Thomas will ever win a championship? And if not, then it needs to be changed.

I realize you and I are just trying to make the best of what we have. Sadly what we have isn't good enough. You win with skilled players. Preferly athletic one's. Players that can defend, Shoot the ball, pass the ball, handle the ball and have good BBIQ. So who do we have that fits that bill. Cousins? Yes! I. Thomas? Yeah, I'd say. J. Thompson? Yep! Brooks? Yep, I'd throw him into that group. Salmons? I'd say yes. After that, just about everyone else has some sort of flaw. They can defend, but they can't shoot. They can shoot, but they can't defend. There are the borderline players like Thornton who puts out an valiant effort on both sides, but he is in fact more of a volume shooter than he is a good shooter.

Now you can hide a poor defender that can shoot on a good defensive team, and you can hide a good defender that can't shoot on a good offensive team. Our problem, is that we just have too dammed many of those that can't shoot, and the only place most of them should be hiding is on the bench. Look, I'm Mr. Optimism, but facts are facts. This team is going nowhere with two players playing on the perimeter in the starting lineup that can't hit an outside shot. Tyreke has to start making those shots, and if he can't, then he should be replaced with Thornton, who at least will be guarded. Either that, or trade for a SF that can defend and hit an outside shot.

By the way, I haven't forgotten about Cisco. I just don't see him in our future plans beyond this year, unless he comes back as an assistant coach, or he's our big freeagent signing next offseason.

All I can say is: Great minds...."

The only thing that I want to add is the old cliche: You're only as good as your best player. This team doesn't have a chance to be good until Cousins is good. And until Cousins can control himself and stay games consistently, he's not good. He's a guy who is AWOL one game, maybe great the next, and just ok the next. The Kings fate is very much tied to his emotional stability, as we learned with this Lakers' game.

 

[The_Jamal]

Excellent posts in this thread.

I don't think anyone can, would, or should deny Smart's crazy rotations having a negative effect on the team. However, people also seem to be of the mindset that the second a Nate Mcmillan or Jerry Sloan are on the bench that we're magically going to be able to make open shots. The sheer number of wide open jumpers or easy lay-ups that this team misses is truly astounding for a pro basketball team.

While Orlando failed to put a real winning team around Dwight, they went sought out the correct type of players to pair with a star big; elite floor spacers. You want to give Cousins as much room in the paint as possible and the only way to do so is to have players on the floor who you can't help off of. You want defenses to decide whether to double Cousins or leave that 40%+ 3pt shooter with an open look. Cousins, as a more skilled offense player and passer, would no doubt thrive in this sort of offense built around him

 

[mac]

Excellent posts in this thread.

I don't think anyone can, would, or should deny Smart's crazy rotations having a negative effect on the team. However, people also seem to be of the mindset that the second a Nate Mcmillan or Jerry Sloan are on the bench that we're magically going to be able to make open shots. The sheer number of wide open jumpers or easy lay-ups that this team misses is truly astounding for a pro basketball team.

While Orlando failed to put a real winning team around Dwight, they went sought out the correct type of players to pair with a star big; elite floor spacers. You want to give Cousins as much room in the paint as possible and the only way to do so is to have players on the floor who you can't help off of. You want defenses to decide whether to double Cousins or leave that 40%+ 3pt shooter with an open look. Cousins, as a more skilled offense player and passer, would no doubt thrive in this sort of offense built around him

Disagree on the Cousins bit. Cousins' offensive game is nowhere near (as in similar to) that of Dwight/Shaq. He isn't going to back down his defender and score over him in the post. You don't isolate a guy without post moves in the post. Let him take his man off the dribble or shoot outside shots until he develops a better post game. For now he can't even finish consistently inside.

 

[Npliam]

Disagree on the Cousins bit. Cousins' offensive game is nowhere near that of Dwight/Shaq. He isn't going to back down his defender and score over him in the post. You don't isolate a guy without post moves in the post. Let him take his man off the dribble or shoot outside shots until he develops a better post game. For now he can't even finish consistently inside.

Cuz has a better post game than Dwight. He does need to spend more time in the post and be more selective of when to shoot. He has a bunch of moves and can use his size to get an open shot. He doesn't have the same leaping ability as Howard but he has a bunch of moves that work.

 

[bajaden]

Disagree on the Cousins bit. Cousins' offensive game is nowhere near (as in similar to) that of Dwight/Shaq. He isn't going to back down his defender and score over him in the post. You don't isolate a guy without post moves in the post. Let him take his man off the dribble or shoot outside shots until he develops a better post game. For now he can't even finish consistently inside.

On the rare occasion that Cuz gets the chance to go one on one with an opposing player, he's pretty good. Unfortunately, just about everytime he gets the ball in the post, he's doubled, and sometimes tripled. Its a lot harder to make shots right at the basket when you've got two defenders banging into you. I agree, Cousins needs to improve his post game, but he does have a post game, and it is getting better. I see new moves out of him all the time. Take some of the congestion away, and I think you'll magicaly see his post game improve.

 

[Siranthony]

I'll skip all of my opinions on this player and that etc etc. We need coaching, real coaching. The end.

P.S. I'm starting to think the Maloofs don't like good coaches because the have HCD (Head Coahes Disease). Good head coaches are probably control freaks.

 

[andjel]

Ok, I will challenge mantra that has been repeated again and again that Kings still have team of ill fitted parts.

Last year there were several areas with glaring deficiencies, lack of 4th big man or even 3rd big man, lack of SF for defense or offense, and consistent outside shooting.
This year that is not the case.

First of all, almost any team will look ill fitted if you consider 10-12 people being in standard rotation without defined roles and ranking of importance. Coaches responsibility is to define roles and reduce rotation.

Hence I will focus only on what I (and lot of folks here) believe should be starting lineup:
Reke, Thornton, JJ/Salmons (depending on the match up with other team), JT, Cousins
I will focus on shooting, since I do not see consistent complaints about anything else from previous year.

3pt shooting of starting lineups of top teams:
OKC: Westbrook 29%, Sefolosha 32.8%, Durant 36.4%,
LAC: CP 36.1%, Green 33.5%, Buttler 32.9%
SAS: Parker 31.1%, Green 42.4%, Leonard 36.5%
MEM: Conley 38%, Guy 34.5%, Tony Allen does not shoot
BOS: Rondo 24.4%, Lee 38.2%, Pierce 36.9%
Chi: Rose 31%, Hamilton 34.7%, Deng 33.4%
Mia: Chalmers 35.9%, Wade does not shoot, Battier 36.7%, LBJ 33.2%

Sac: Reke 25.2%, MT 35.7%, JJ/Salmons 28.8%/36.3%

Compared to the elite teams starting five, I do not see Kings being significantly worse than Grizzlies, Celtics or OKC. Do not hear anybody talking about those teams as unbalanced non-shooting teams.

Fitting in the story from the start of the thread and floor spacing, MT and Salmons have to be respected at 3pt, JT can hit midrange jumpers quite well for big. There should be plenty of space for Reke and Cousins to play their inside game all day long. If there is some system at all.

Here is what I think creates that illusion about Kings roster being poorly constructed for shooting/floor spacing .... Kings players do suck at 3 pt 3shooting .... but only when they get to Kings.

Salmons: career:36.3% Kings:29.6% (the worst shooting for 3 years prior coming back to kings was 37.9%)
Outlaw: career:33.8% Kings:26.6%
Thornton: career:35.7% Kings: 34.3%
JJ: career: 28.8% Kings:0% Small sample size
AB: career 36.2% Kings:29.2% Small sample size

Reke: first 2 years:27.3% since last year: 19.4%
Cisco: Career 35.9% since last year: 28.9%

One can believe that ALL players forget how to shoot since beginning of last year and roster is not balanced.
To me, these numbers much more strongly point to bad fitting system that affects the players shooting abilities.

 

[hrdboild]

Ok, I will challenge mantra that has been repeated again and again that Kings still have team of ill fitted parts.

etc...

The system is bad, that's glaringly obvious. No disagreement there. I've seen AND1 streetball games with more structure than this. And it's going to continue to depress shooting numbers until it gets changed. But you're just looking at the starting lineup here. The reason I think the roster is poorly constructed is that our backup bigs are a 6'6" center and a rookie and the rest of our bench is heavily skewed (and I can't emphasize this enough -- heavily skewed) toward high usage scoring guards. The starting lineup you proposed is fine (it'll never happen with Smart in charge but that's a whole other issue) -- what happens when it's time for someone to get a rest? In comes the incredible flying circus of PGs who don't pass. They bob, they weave, they turn down screens and shoot step backs. Who is holding them accountable? What recourse is there other than empty minutes from Outlaw/Cisco or grimacing while Hayes and Robinson get crunched in the paint for the umpteenth time? We've traded away all of our size and we refuse to properly stock our wing positions because our owners are in denial that they're wasting money on unproductive players who could be replaced with D-League fill ins at a fraction of the price.

 

[DesertFox]

OK, this team obviously has ill-fitted parts, the coach isn't helping, but you can't argue it.

This team has bad shooters, and the only good shooters are all dribblers, not catch and shoot guys. It's a nice talent, but there's only one ball.

Take a look back at the players you named, not only at their shooting %, but at how they shoot.
Outside of the all-stars and Conley (who is darn good), they are all low usage guys who happily stay out of the way and wait for their shoot. The closest thing this team has is Garcia, who is mediocre at everything else, is always hurt, and shot poorly last year.

 

[andjel]

The system is bad, that's glaringly obvious. No disagreement there. I've seen AND1 streetball games with more structure than this. And it's going to continue to depress shooting numbers until it gets changed. But you're just looking at the starting lineup here. The reason I think the roster is poorly constructed is that our backup bigs are a 6'6" center and a rookie and the rest of our bench is heavily skewed (and I can't emphasize this enough -- heavily skewed) toward high usage scoring guards. The starting lineup you proposed is fine (it'll never happen with Smart in charge but that's a whole other issue) -- what happens when it's time for someone to get a rest? In comes the incredible flying circus of PGs who don't pass. They bob, they weave, they turn down screens and shoot step backs. Who is holding them accountable? What recourse is there other than empty minutes from Outlaw/Cisco or grimacing while Hayes and Robinson get crunched in the paint for the umpteenth time? We've traded away all of our size and we refuse to properly stock our wing positions because our owners are in denial that they're wasting money on unproductive players who could be replaced with D-League fill ins at a fraction of the price.

I do not see bench being imbalanced if system goes back to normal... normal being that you have 3-4 guys from the bench, NOT playing everybody.

Guards: IT/Brooks/Jimmer I do not see much issue if one of them is primary backup, one fills the rest of the minutes and the third one waits for injuries. Any of them can spell MT as shooter, or Reke as PG for limited time (both IT/Brooks have shown they are capable of 4-5 asst in limited minutes). How about IT/Salmons/JJ/Trob/JT lets say for second quarter. Of course, that understood that the system is not "They bob, they weave, they turn down screens and shoot step backs".

SF: Whoever is not starter of JJ/Salmons

Bigs: TRob, Chuck Now while it would be nice to have another big guy, compared with previous year we have one big guy more (TRob) and one healthier. Unless TRob happends to be much worse than advertised, or if Cousins gets injured we are not in such bad shape.
JT/DC/TR/CH gives a lot of options. Most of teams do not have capable 7 footers stashed on the bench. If height is needed, we have JT/DC, if matchup is proper we can go CH/DC starting with JT providing height of the bench.

Accountability and coaching is the key of course.

 

[andjel]

OK, this team obviously has ill-fitted parts, the coach isn't helping, but you can't argue it.

This team has bad shooters, and the only good shooters are all dribblers, not catch and shoot guys. It's a nice talent, but there's only one ball.

Take a look back at the players you named, not only at their shooting %, but at how they shoot.
Outside of the all-stars and Conley (who is darn good), they are all low usage guys who happily stay out of the way and wait for their shoot. The closest thing this team has is Garcia, who is mediocre at everything else, is always hurt, and shot poorly last year.

Very valid point about the lack of "how they shoot" part of the story that statistic does not tell.
Statistics do show that what we are seeing right now from our players is not what they are capable of shooting.

Just because guys can dribble and shoot does not mean that they cannot spot-up shoot.
I would argue that while Thornton is more known for creating his own shot, he is very good as spot-up shooter as well. With Reke-Cousing on the floor I believe that he is quite deadly in that role.

JJ was definitely not focus of offense in Toronto and was shooting 31.7% last season which is in line with spot-up role players like Sefolosha. He needs his offensive role... which is what system is supposed to provide.

Brooks/Salmons are more known as dribble/shoot guys. Would not pan them as deadly spot-up shooters, but I do not think that opponent would want Salmons wide open.

Jimmer should be fine in that role.

 

[jcwkings]

This roster is just a complete mess, from the pieces we have this would be the most logical lineup we could field( would it work? probably not, but it is the one that makes most sense and defines roles)

pg: Jimmer
sg: Evans
sf: Garcia
pf: JT
C: Cousins

Jimmer and Garcia are our 2 best spot up shooters and create floor spacing for Evans. Jimmer and Evans split ball handling 60/40. I like James Johnson but his horrid shooting kills ball movement and lets the defense recover because they don't have to honor his shot. Garcia is the only person other than Jimmer who prefers to shoot spotting up rather than off the dribble( Jimmer is quite comfortable spotting up and off the dribble).

 

[HereWeBoogie]

OMG Jimmer and Garcia in the starting lineup? your fired

 

[jcwkings]

OMG Jimmer and Garcia in the starting lineup? your fired

did i say thats what i want? i said those are the type of players we need starting if our core are Cousins and Evans(particularly Evans). We need a spot up 3pt shooter at SF (Batum, Dorrell Wright, Brandon Rush etc.), and we need a 3pt shooter at pg (Lillard was there to take!!!!!!!!!). and i don't get your hate for Jimmer, the guy has the highest bball iq on this team, and is clearly playing his guts out in the limited minutes he has gotten this year, all of our players shooting percentages are laughable with the exception of Jimmer

 

[rekehavoc73186]

i would start jimmer, reke, johnson, hayes, cousins. I would trade aaron brooks for a SF that can shoot and play solid defense. Then johnson can come off the bench and he would have thomas and thornton for shooters rather than just playing with one shooter. Tyreke and johnson cannot co exist for a long period of time. I really dont think this team is far away it just needs to have a realible SF that can shoot. Johnson is a upgrade but the dude flat out stinks at shooting. I think i trust tyreke more when open more than JJ.

 

[mac]

Well you know what, after watching James Johnson for these few games I have concluded that our FO has once again failed to get us the starting SF that we need. JJ would be great as a defensive SF brought off the bench, but he's hurting us way too much on offense. I don't mind that he can't shoot - I mind that he can't shoot and still insists on handling the ball and trying to create (for himself only).

 

[Spike]

Well you know what, after watching James Johnson for these few games I have concluded that our FO has once again failed to get us the starting SF that we need. JJ would be great as a defensive SF brought off the bench, but he's hurting us way too much on offense. I don't mind that he can't shoot - I mind that he can't shoot and still insists on handling the ball and trying to create (for himself only).

Talk to the coach about that one. This team can function if people know their roles and shut their mouths, and that's on the coach. I'm not even going to bring up the in-game rotations...

 

[DesertFox]

Very valid point about the lack of "how they shoot" part of the story that statistic does not tell.
Statistics do show that what we are seeing right now from our players is not what they are capable of shooting.

Just because guys can dribble and shoot does not mean that they cannot spot-up shoot.
I would argue that while Thornton is more known for creating his own shot, he is very good as spot-up shooter as well. With Reke-Cousing on the floor I believe that he is quite deadly in that role.

JJ was definitely not focus of offense in Toronto and was shooting 31.7% last season which is in line with spot-up role players like Sefolosha. He needs his offensive role... which is what system is supposed to provide.

Brooks/Salmons are more known as dribble/shoot guys. Would not pan them as deadly spot-up shooters, but I do not think that opponent would want Salmons wide open.

Jimmer should be fine in that role.

You're definitely right, there is no reason a player who can shoot off the dribble can't figure out how to be a spot up shooter. Guys like Caron Butler, Rip Hamilton, vets who've accepted their new role. Even young guys who were superstars at college like JJ Redick become role players in the NBA.

So Brooks/Outlaw/Salmons/etc should be able to fill that role, which is what falls on Smart. Sure he got a mess of a roster, but he hasn't encouraged anything by giving everyone "the green light," rendering his most talented ball handler useless.

 

[andjel]

Well you know what, after watching James Johnson for these few games I have concluded that our FO has once again failed to get us the starting SF that we need. JJ would be great as a defensive SF brought off the bench, but he's hurting us way too much on offense. I don't mind that he can't shoot - I mind that he can't shoot and still insists on handling the ball and trying to create (for himself only).

This is second year in a row that we are surprised how our off season acquisitions are not as good as we thought.
Salmons, Outlaw, Hayes and now JJ.
Either it is Indian burrial ground that makes roleplayers forget how to shoot, or there is something else.
I would argue about something else.
Key word here is Roleplayers.
What use is role player without role?
If those folks can do bunch of stuff well, they would not be role players anymore.
You do not see Sefoloshas and Battiers of the world handling the ball, having ISOs for them etc. They have role of defensive spot up shooter.
Specialization that role provides makes them able to focus on skills needed instead of wasting energy on stuff that team does not need.

I strongly doubt that Bowen Sefolosha Battier... If they were with our team in their prime, would be as effective as they were on their respective structured teams.

In short, the lack of structure and stability affects role players more than "stars", and that is what we are seeing.

 

[mac]

This is second year in a row that we are surprised how our off season acquisitions are not as good as we thought.
Salmons, Outlaw, Hayes and now JJ.
Either it is Indian burrial ground that makes roleplayers forget how to shoot, or there is something else.
I would argue about something else.
Key word here is Roleplayers.
What use is role player without role?
If those folks can do bunch of stuff well, they would not be role players anymore.
You do not see Sefoloshas and Battiers of the world handling the ball, having ISOs for them etc. They have role of defensive spot up shooter.
Specialization that role provides makes them able to focus on skills needed instead of wasting energy on stuff that team does not need.

I strongly doubt that Bowen Sefolosha Battier... If they were with our team in their prime, would be as effective as they were on their respective structured teams.

In short, the lack of structure and stability affects role players more than "stars", and that is what we are seeing.

Well I'd say Salmons and Outlaw have been the disappointing ones. Hayes is playing pretty well this season on both ends. Or at very least he's doing what he hired him to do. The same goes for JJ, who is a defensive player. Salmons and Outlaw on the other hand, were brought in as athletic SFs who could shoot, space the floor, and defend, and none of them have done that on a consistent basis.

Like you said the real problem is that we have JJ handling the ball, leading the break etc. Same thing when we post up Chuck Hayes to let him go 1 on 1. If these guys just do their jobs (hustle, play defense... for Hayes to run some plays finding cutters) then we wouldn't have as much of a problem. Johnson's shooting would still be a problem, but it wouldn't be as bad as freezing other key offensive players out

 

[andjel]

Well I'd say Salmons and Outlaw have been the disappointing ones. Hayes is playing pretty well this season on both ends. Or at very least he's doing what he hired him to do. The same goes for JJ, who is a defensive player. Salmons and Outlaw on the other hand, were brought in as athletic SFs who could shoot, space the floor, and defend, and none of them have done that on a consistent basis.

Like you said the real problem is that we have JJ handling the ball, leading the break etc. Same thing when we post up Chuck Hayes to let him go 1 on 1. If these guys just do their jobs (hustle, play defense... for Hayes to run some plays finding cutters) then we wouldn't have as much of a problem. Johnson's shooting would still be a problem, but it wouldn't be as bad as freezing other key offensive players out

I agree with all said except shooting issues of the team.
If all our role players are shooting their career averages, would this be a glaring issue?
Even with small sample size, JJ was shooting over 31% from 3pt last year which has to be respected by opponent and was starting to develop that skill. I do not know how much he can further improve in jump shooting role, but I am quite sure we will never find out as long as his role is not defined.

 

[Bricklayer]

OK, this team obviously has ill-fitted parts, the coach isn't helping, but you can't argue it.

This team has bad shooters, and the only good shooters are all dribblers, not catch and shoot guys. It's a nice talent, but there's only one ball.

Take a look back at the players you named, not only at their shooting %, but at how they shoot.
Outside of the all-stars and Conley (who is darn good), they are all low usage guys who happily stay out of the way and wait for their shoot. The closest thing this team has is Garcia, who is mediocre at everything else, is always hurt, and shot poorly last year.

ah, my mantra gains some traction!

alas not in the front office where it matters.

 

[Bricklayer]

This is second year in a row that we are surprised how our off season acquisitions are not as good as we thought.
Salmons, Outlaw, Hayes and now JJ.
Either it is Indian burrial ground that makes roleplayers forget how to shoot, or there is something else.
I would argue about something else.
Key word here is Roleplayers.
What use is role player without role?
If those folks can do bunch of stuff well, they would not be role players anymore.
You do not see Sefoloshas and Battiers of the world handling the ball, having ISOs for them etc. They have role of defensive spot up shooter.
Specialization that role provides makes them able to focus on skills needed instead of wasting energy on stuff that team does not need.

I strongly doubt that Bowen Sefolosha Battier... If they were with our team in their prime, would be as effective as they were on their respective structured teams.

In short, the lack of structure and stability affects role players more than "stars", and that is what we are seeing.

and look at that, two spot on posts in one thread. amongst all the silliness we sometimes have to endure, a breath of fresh air.

 

[Padrino]

This is second year in a row that we are surprised how our off season acquisitions are not as good as we thought.
Salmons, Outlaw, Hayes and now JJ.
Either it is Indian burrial ground that makes roleplayers forget how to shoot, or there is something else.
I would argue about something else.
Key word here is Roleplayers.
What use is role player without role?
If those folks can do bunch of stuff well, they would not be role players anymore.
You do not see Sefoloshas and Battiers of the world handling the ball, having ISOs for them etc. They have role of defensive spot up shooter.
Specialization that role provides makes them able to focus on skills needed instead of wasting energy on stuff that team does not need.

I strongly doubt that Bowen Sefolosha Battier... If they were with our team in their prime, would be as effective as they were on their respective structured teams.

In short, the lack of structure and stability affects role players more than "stars", and that is what we are seeing.

bravo.