State of the Kings Pre-trade Deadline Edition
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
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Reading past the headlines it sounded more like teams were calling to low ball us on Bagley than we're actively shopping him. But I can't take his stupid family.
Given how lost this season is we may as well cater more of the offense to him and see what he shows for it though.
Given how lost this season is we may as well cater more of the offense to him and see what he shows for it though.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The reality is regardless their usage of him has been terrible for his value. I'm not sure why they've handled him with kiddie gloves and play him 25 mpg still. 35 and you're talking 20 and 10 nightly. The Kings sit him to watch Holmes play and build value for FA while also attempting to get Bjelica to build value back up from the bottom while still losing in the process. If nothing with Bjelica happens trade wise they lost all their bets hands down. They've almost made it to where they can't afford to ship him out. The value is apparently not there. Good job Kings for continuing to sit in the middle and watch almost every team pass you by going in both directions.
The smart call is they move Holmes (since there is a cap on what the Kings can pay), Bjelica, and Whiteside at the deadline and use the rest of the season to see what Bagley can do.
Livinthedream
All-Star
This 100%. My fear is that I can't tell if this is a Walton issue or McNair issue.
I can’t really get behind trading Holmes or Barnes, both good character vets with skills that would be hard to replace. Along with Fox, Haliburton and one or two good fits I’d think we are respectable.
Buddy, Bagley and of course Joseph and Bjelica can all go. Someone posted a recent photo of rookie Isaiah Stewart in Detroit on another thread. I’m sure he’s a work in progress but damn...reminiscent of Ben Wallace. Recon Bagley would look just fine in Detroit blue.
Buddy, Bagley and of course Joseph and Bjelica can all go. Someone posted a recent photo of rookie Isaiah Stewart in Detroit on another thread. I’m sure he’s a work in progress but damn...reminiscent of Ben Wallace. Recon Bagley would look just fine in Detroit blue.
gunks
Hall of Famer
While I totally agree with you about how poorly Bagley has been used, you lost me at trade Holmes.
And honestly, I’d only play Bags to showcase.
Fact is, players like Bagley don’t move the needle anymore, at least not in the right direction. He’d have been a great prospect in the early 2000s, which is probably why Vlade drafted him. Nowadays, if a big isn’t elite at passing or defense, they aren’t starting on a legit playoff team.
Have wondered what Vlade didn’t see in Domantas Sabonis. Big man with those modern skills for the taking at 8.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Didnt he just say NO to Sacramento and Vlade only picked guys who wanted to come here?
And shooting. And not taking away from your star guards. And Rim protecting. And being able to defend the perimeter.. and...
Being a big in today's NBA is incredibly hard. Unless you're a unicorn offensive talent (Jokic, Embiid, KAT) it's almost never worth to have your team built around a big. Randle and Sabonis make it work because they've developed so much as a passer, but those dudes are still a tier below the top guys. And neither guys team is a serious title contender.
Holmes is the one vet I want to resign and keep around. He's a flawless fit next to Fox/Hali and he's a legitimately great role player on both ends of the court. It's rare to find that sort of a skill-set in a non-star big.
upinsmoke
All-Star
Kings absolutely should trade Homz. He'll be alot less fun to root for on a heftier contract.
Can someone please tell me what the cap on Holmes is? If we don't pick up CoJo's option I believe we have around 20 million of cap space. If we wanted to pay Holmes 20 million I think I would quit basketball.
I don’t remember that, but yeah in the case of Bagley saying he wanted to come here pretty sure it made a difference.
Curious about Vlades relationship with Sabonis Sr. Theory was he had an issue with Luka’s dad.
This is a major concern. Frankly I don't think we would break the bank on him which makes him movable, but he does seem to like it here so if he would take a reasonable contract I am fine keeping him. I do think once people started to expect things from him he has fallen more into the disappointing category though. His first 3 months or so were great. Since then I can take or leave him.
The Effort Police
Starter
Could be both.
Walton has always had an affinity for small ball (as do a ton of coaches), so one big was always going to get shafted and it wasn't going to be Holmes.
McNair is wishy-washy at best on Bagley according to Amick, and although he's open to re-evaluating him, he does not actively consider him part of the core as of this moment.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
where was this Amick interview posted? Tankmichael Dave’s?
Livinthedream
All-Star
Well, it sounds like McNair is trying to hedge his bets, and that doesn't help anyone. If he doesn't commit to Bagley, he can't get the most out of him to see if he's worth keeping, and he can't maximize his trade value if he doesn't want him. Let Walton feature Holmes in the offense and drive up his stats, then there is a risk of pricing yourself out of resigning him in free agency.
gunks
Hall of Famer
I mean, that is the question...
If he ends up getting offered more than we want to match and we lose him for nothing it’ll suck.
But I’d rather wait it out and see if we can sign him up a contract with good value. Maybe try and work a sign and trade off the price gets too high.
I think McNair should worry about jettisoning Buddy’s awful contract first, then we can worry about the future cap hold of guys like Holmes on a new deal,
SLAB
Hall of Famer
I’m on board with this. I like Holmes, but I can’t get behind him as much as “One of the best two-way centers in the league.” If he gets paid like it? Ouch...
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
He is for sure top half in my opinion. I imagine he goes somewhere between Jakob Poeltl 3 year 27 million and Woods 3 year 41 million. After looking at recent center signings that is what I’ve come up with and I’m comfortable with those numbers.
Also, if we hold on to Barnes I am sliding him to the 4 next year and looking for a new wing (hopefully in the draft)
Those numbers are all reasonable and well within our budget constraints (basically CoJo's money) but I keep hearing this chatter there is going to be bidding wars and we'll be priced out?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
It’s pure speculation and wishful thinking on my part so it’s possible he will be a hot commodity. I do think his value is held back by the fact he is not a rim protector or a creator on offense. Still, offensively efficient centers with plus defensive metrics don’t grow on trees.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Yeah, cause the ball is in much better hands with MB3 than the actual 2 stars of the team, right?
Talk about the pot calling the kettle (regarding the name calling). SMH
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I think he is a good defender but I don't consider him a presence in the paint like say Whiteside. His size seems to limit him occasionally
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Because he isn’t though? No ones afraid of driving right into the paint when he’s in. Don’t get me wrong, I can’t/won’t blame much of it on Holmes because there are bigger problems everywhere else on the D, but to say he’s a rim-protector? Ehhhhhh, it’s a stretch at best.
Hassan is a rim protector. People change their game even after blowing past our terrible defense when he’s back there.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Next 10 games will be telling. We have 2 with Cleveland and 1 with Washington and we sit in a group at 7,6,5.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
One thing doesn't necessarily negate the other. Moving Holmes would likely improve their ability to showcase Bagley since most of the plays they are running for Holmes could be run for Bagley. Bagley has had to mold his game around the other pick and roll big and it's hurting his productivity. Now, the positive is he's developed that corner 3 to a decent level but no matter what, turning him into a spot big that stretches for your center isn't going to do anything to help showcase his potential.
The thing about Holmes is he's proving his worth and if a team comes up empty on other options, they might want to gamble on him. And at this point would it even be much of a gamble? I've seen articles that put him under the MLE on a re-sign. Well, if true great, but I'd be surprised because that would mean there are about 29 other GM's that don't know their butt from a hole in the ground. This could turn into another Bogdan situation even though it sounds like Holmes would like to stay. I think Bogdan was done long before he left.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I think it was a limit since he signed the contract he did. He's only able to get a certain raise which I think was said to be around 15 million a year or something. In a world where one dimensional SG's get 18-24 million a season it's a scary thought to gamble on losing him too.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Does he though? He's the same coach that has stuck with big starting lineups since he got here. Last year it was Bjelica and Bagley/Holmes, and now it's Bagley/Holmes. While both units have done good almost every good 5 man advanced lineup worth a darn has had Barnes at the 4 from day 1 of Waltons tenure yet they don't get the majority share of the minutes.
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