Starting lineup going forward - Fox, Buddy, Bogs, Barnes, WCS

[Kings_of_California]

Yea but to be fair, Bogi was playing pretty bad before this lineup too.

 

[sactowndog]

Yea but Bogi was playing pretty bad before this lineup too.

He was.... that’s one big reason why go to it. But he plays better when paired with Bogi and dare I say JJ.

 

[ESP47]

Joerger has basically knocked the Kings out of the playoffs with this lineup. Don't run this lineup out there and the Kings probably win a few of the close games they lost in the last couple weeks.

Also Bogie is just killing the Kings right now with his play. He really needs to work on his game in the offseason because he is a massive liability out there if he can't score efficiently.

Hield has also been bugging me lately. Ever since that game against the Pistons where he hit that crazy game winning shot, he's been taking a ton of low percentage shots each game. He's shown he can make difficult shots but you don't want to make taking difficult shots a part of your regular game. You only want to do it when the shot clock or game clock are running down. He's been doing it at random 4-5 times a game and it's been hurting his efficiency quite a bit. Buddy really needs to tighten his game back up to where it was a couple months ago. I'd much rather him score 18 efficiently than 24 on 24 shots. I'm sure he's also got tired legs since he does the most running in the NBA but there are other ways he can tighten his game back up.

 

[The Effort Police]

Joerger has basically knocked the Kings out of the playoffs with this lineup. Don't run this lineup out there and the Kings probably win a few of the close games they lost in the last couple weeks.

Also Bogie is just killing the Kings right now with his play. He really needs to work on his game in the offseason because he is a massive liability out there if he can't score efficiently.

Hield has also been bugging me lately. Ever since that game against the Pistons where he hit that crazy game winning shot, he's been taking a ton of low percentage shots each game. He's shown he can make difficult shots but you don't want to make taking difficult shots a part of your regular game. You only want to do it when the shot clock or game clock are running down. He's been doing it at random 4-5 times a game and it's been hurting his efficiency quite a bit. Buddy really needs to tighten his game back up to where it was a couple months ago. I'd much rather him score 18 efficiently than 24 on 24 shots. I'm sure he's also got tired legs since he does the most running in the NBA but there are other ways he can tighten his game back up.

I think that's what's got everyone so sour. He basically had something that was working despite its flaws and went with a half-baked experiment at really the worst possible time to do a half-baked experiment.

The thought process behind the Barnes trade I think was a way to bolster what flaws the original lineups had (they weren't perfect by any stretch). Instead Joerger took it as a chance to take things in a completely different direction.

 

[ESP47]

I think that's what's got everyone so sour. He basically had something that was working despite its flaws and went with a half-baked experiment at really the worst possible time to do a half-baked experiment.

The thought process behind the Barnes trade I think was a way to bolster what flaws the original lineups had (they weren't perfect by any stretch). Instead Joerger took it as a chance to take things in a completely different direction.

Around the time of the trade deadline I was reading some other forum and the posters were talking about Barnes and someone posted stats that showed that Barnes is an above average player as a small ball 4 and a below average player as a 3. I don't know how much stock to put into that because I didn't do any research on it it and it could be swayed by him playing the 4 in Golden State and more the 3 in Dallas or something like that. Could maybe be a reason why Joerger is trying it?

Personally I think Bogie at the 3 is hurting the Kings about twice as much as Barnes at the 4 because at least Barnes plays ok defense out there if his shot isn't falling. If they are going to use this lineup then he needs to be switched out for Brewer so the Kings can have better perimeter defense on the floor against the starters.

 

[NME]

I thought getting Barnes was a brilliant move, because it would finally allow us to match up with big wings. It turned out to be a wish on a monkey's paw though when it emboldened Joerger to go small ball no matter the consequences. It can work against certain matchups, but he shows no recognition of it when it's clearly a net negative, sticking with it while the team falls into deep holes in games that are ultimately decided by a few points. A coach is supposed to maximize what is working and minimize what is not, and he is failing at that too often.

 

[TaxMan]

Around the time of the trade deadline I was reading some other forum and the posters were talking about Barnes and someone posted stats that showed that Barnes is an above average player as a small ball 4 and a below average player as a 3. I don't know how much stock to put into that because I didn't do any research on it it and it could be swayed by him playing the 4 in Golden State and more the 3 in Dallas or something like that. Could maybe be a reason why Joerger is trying it?

Personally I think Bogie at the 3 is hurting the Kings about twice as much as Barnes at the 4 because at least Barnes plays ok defense out there if his shot isn't falling. If they are going to use this lineup then he needs to be switched out for Brewer so the Kings can have better perimeter defense on the floor against the starters.

Yep. I have no problem with Barnes at the 4. I don’t want bogi at the 3.....either way, the bigger problem right now I no Marvin and a young team that seems to be pressing with the added importance of these games down the stretch.

 

[The Effort Police]

Around the time of the trade deadline I was reading some other forum and the posters were talking about Barnes and someone posted stats that showed that Barnes is an above average player as a small ball 4 and a below average player as a 3. I don't know how much stock to put into that because I didn't do any research on it it and it could be swayed by him playing the 4 in Golden State and more the 3 in Dallas or something like that. Could maybe be a reason why Joerger is trying it?

Personally I think Bogie at the 3 is hurting the Kings about twice as much as Barnes at the 4 because at least Barnes plays ok defense out there if his shot isn't falling. If they are going to use this lineup then he needs to be switched out for Brewer so the Kings can have better perimeter defense on the floor against the starters.

BBref shows him playing more as a 3 in Golden State and a 4 in Dallas. I don't know anything about the stats you were reading, but his GS stats look better with everything but the raw numbers. Though that's definitely due to being whatever option he was there compared to the 1st option on Dallas rather than the shifting positions.

Whatever the case, when they acquired Barnes I don't think it was to have him be a small-ball 4. They just sent out their starting SF in a different trade that same day and already lacked at that position, they obviously want him to play the role he had in GS, and they just drafted a PF #2,

 

[Kingsfan23]

Around the time of the trade deadline I was reading some other forum and the posters were talking about Barnes and someone posted stats that showed that Barnes is an above average player as a small ball 4 and a below average player as a 3. I don't know how much stock to put into that because I didn't do any research on it it and it could be swayed by him playing the 4 in Golden State and more the 3 in Dallas or something like that. Could maybe be a reason why Joerger is trying it?

Personally I think Bogie at the 3 is hurting the Kings about twice as much as Barnes at the 4 because at least Barnes plays ok defense out there if his shot isn't falling. If they are going to use this lineup then he needs to be switched out for Brewer so the Kings can have better perimeter defense on the floor against the starters.

Yes. Just one look at him screams stretch 4, at least for me.

I think the issue is, originally we were missing a SF. We then traded for Barnes. I think a lot of people put two in two together that we traded for Barnes because we were short a SF, instead of the fact that we may have traded for Barnes because he’s a solid player who didn’t cost much.

People mentioning what he was when he was drafted - players gain weight/frame as they age many times

 

[sactowndog]

BBref shows him playing more as a 3 in Golden State and a 4 in Dallas. I don't know anything about the stats you were reading, but his GS stats look better with everything but the raw numbers. Though that's definitely due to being whatever option he was there compared to the 1st option on Dallas rather than the shifting positions.

Whatever the case, when they acquired Barnes I don't think it was to have him be a small-ball 4. They just sent out their starting SF in a different trade that same day and already lacked at that position, they obviously want him to play the role he had in GS, and they just drafted a PF #2,

Yeah the question that I wonder is are Joeger and Vlade on the same page. If you wanted to play Barnes at the 4, why trade Iman? And why trade Iman for Burks who you don’t play Burks at all?

Seems odd doesn’t it?

 

[Peja]

Enough with the small ball and enough with playing Bogdan on the position he's not good at, especially in the moment when he's having a major struggle. I'd bring Bjelica back to the lineup and try him out together with Bagley a few times. If that doesn't work, then insert Bagley as a starting 4 and move Barnes back to 3. Simple as that.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Yeah the question that I wonder is are Joeger and Vlade on the same page. If you wanted to play Barnes at the 4, why trade Iman? And why trade Iman for Burks who you don’t play Burks at all?

Seems odd doesn’t it?

I don’t think they are on the same page—Dave is woefully misusing Bogi and Barnes. I do not think Dave will be back. Dave is a tinkerer, and next year’s team needs predictable lineups and empowerment of Buddy and Fox to call the shots in-game. I don’t think Dave can do either of those things, which would be resolvable except this post-All Star stretch has shown he’s not really worth the office politics he plays. I just think he’ll make his power play again in May/June, and it will be a bridge too far for Vlade.

 

[Showtime]

For March, Belicia comes off the bench and provides +17.7, 9/7 on 26 mpg while shooting 39% from deep. Can people stop acting like he's a non-factor on this team? So many posts about "Nemanja who?" when he was shelved. It just so happens the team went off the edge of a cliff when they decided not to play this guy.

 

[Kingsfan23]

For March, Belicia comes off the bench and provides +17.7, 9/7 on 26 mpg while shooting 39% from deep. Can people stop acting like he's a non-factor on this team? So many posts about "Nemanja who?" when he was shelved. It just so happens the team went off the edge of a cliff when they decided not to play this guy.

And if he hasn’t been as good starting why not question if he is better off the bench? If Bogdan theoretically does better off it, maybe Beli is better in that role?

 

[206Fan]

By now it's clear that Fox-Buddy-Bogdan-Barnes-WCS doesn't work. We need Bjelica back in the starting lineup in place of Bogdan. I think the small ball lineup can close games, but it absolutely cannot start. We've been going down early in the games with that starting 5. Our bench is really solid, but they would benefit from having Bogdan there too.

 

[Showtime]

And if he hasn’t been as good starting why not question if he is better off the bench? If Bogdan theoretically does better off it, maybe Beli is better in that role?

My comment was in regards to him not playing at all, not just coming off the bench. He only started playing again because Bagley got hurt. Before he was not in the rotation.

Now, discussion about whether or not he should start can be debated. But it is clear at this point he needs to be in the rotation.

 

[sactowndog]

Well given it felt like as @gunks said in the thread it was “@sactowndog against the world” being opposed to Joeger’s small ball line-up at the time I wanted to see. @Tetsujin is correct he didn’t rip me. I apologize for that mischaracterization. i will say @SLAB agreed and supported Joeger shouldn’t be playing that line-up