Spencer Hawes

[rainmaker]

Biedrins rebounding stats don't mean jack because he's on the Warriors? The Kings are dead last in rebounding this year. So its not like Hawes is getting beaten to the boards by his teammates. They're all getting beaten by the other team. (Though in fairness its hard to get a rebound when the opposing team is simply making the shot every time.)

Of course Biedrins has flaws, who said he didn't? But despite his very limited range and FT% he's still really good already. He just turned 23 yesterday and is averaging 12ppg 11.5rpg and 1.5bpg on 57% shooting in only 30mpg. If they let play him 36 minutes a game he could be an all-star next year...that's not a "limited role player".

We haven't agree'd on anything yet, and we will disagree on this to. Biedrens is a good player, but won't make the allstar team for a few years. There are just to many talented bg men in the west ahead of him. Dirk, Duncan, West, Yao, Shaq, Boozer, Gasol, and Amare are all better and will get selected if healthy. Al Jefferson got a lot of attention this year, and might get the nod next year, especially over Biedrens. I don't think Biedrens has a chance to make the team next year. He might at some point down the road, and I could see him averaging 18/14 in a few years. But an allstar selection for Biedrens is not something we will see for a while.

 

[hammystyle]

We haven't agree'd on anything yet, and we will disagree on this to. Biedrens is a good player, but won't make the allstar team for a few years. There are just to many talented bg men in the west ahead of him. Dirk, Duncan, West, Yao, Shaq, Boozer, Gasol, and Amare are all better and will get selected if healthy. Al Jefferson got a lot of attention this year, and might get the nod next year, especially over Biedrens. I don't think Biedrens has a chance to make the team next year. He might at some point down the road, and I could see him averaging 18/14 in a few years. But an allstar selection for Biedrens is not something we will see for a while.

Wow, digging in on that one minor point.

You're right its a very deep big man pool in the West, tough road to hoe. This year he averages close to 15 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes. If he bumped that up to 17 or 18/14/2 like you said next year while shooting 57% as a true center...yeah, I think even in that group he would receive serious all-star consideration.

 

[rainmaker]

Wow, digging in on that one minor point.

You're right its a very deep big man pool in the West, tough road to hoe. This year he averages close to 15 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes. If he bumped that up to 17 or 18/14/2 like you said next year while shooting 57% as a true center...yeah, I think even in that group he would receive serious all-star consideration.

He would start getting consideration, and you would hear his name being thrown around more often. But I don't think he has a realistic shot untill the warriors are a playoff team again. Similar to Kevin, if the Kings were a playoff team and winning 45-50 games, he would get more consideration.

 

[Oprostaj]

All star game is a popularity contest, it has been for a long time. Measuring a player's worth by asking whether he's going to make an all star game is idiotic. Biedrins is a very good player, one that you have to watch to appreciate. He's not a prototypical center, but he will always be above and beyond in terms of rebounding and shot blocking than Hawes will ever be. Even with his limited time in the NBA, it's obvious that Hawes is neither interested or driven to be a great rebounder. You can be 9' tall and suck at rebounding if you don't apply yourself. Biedrins fights for every loose ball, fights in the lane, is very quick, lanky and long, and fits that system perfectly because he does not need the ball to be effective.

Hawes, if he ever becomes what many on here are predicting, will need the ball thrown to him. He will not be fighting for putbacks and offensive rebounds as his main job. It's a difference in styles, and one where looking at statistics does not tell you even a part of the story between these two players. You have to watch them play. Having said that, I'd take Biedrins in a heartbeat. This is why I voted for the "wait and see" approach with Hawes. Too much talent at too young an age for the Kings not to at least give him a year or two.

 

[Kings Faithful]

All star game is a popularity contest, it has been for a long time. Measuring a player's worth by asking whether he's going to make an all star game is idiotic. Biedrins is a very good player, one that you have to watch to appreciate. He's not a prototypical center, but he will always be above and beyond in terms of rebounding and shot blocking than Hawes will ever be. Even with his limited time in the NBA, it's obvious that Hawes is neither interested or driven to be a great rebounder. You can be 9' tall and suck at rebounding if you don't apply yourself. Biedrins fights for every loose ball, fights in the lane, is very quick, lanky and long, and fits that system perfectly because he does not need the ball to be effective.

Hawes, if he ever becomes what many on here are predicting, will need the ball thrown to him. He will not be fighting for putbacks and offensive rebounds as his main job. It's a difference in styles, and one where looking at statistics does not tell you even a part of the story between these two players. You have to watch them play. Having said that, I'd take Biedrins in a heartbeat. This is why I voted for the "wait and see" approach with Hawes. Too much talent at too young an age for the Kings not to at least give him a year or two.

While im not saying you are gonna be wrong, you simply can't make assessments about Hawes future ability to ever be as good as Biedrins only 2 years into his career...

 

[kingsnation]

At times, I say yes. At times, I think we can do better. So to be honest I am undecided.

 

[bajaden]

Look, Biedrins is in his fifth year in the league. Granted, he's the same age as Thompson, having come into the league at age 18. It took Biedrins three years in the league to really start making a difference. The point is, that its too early to decide what kind of player Hawes is going to be. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Big men require patience. Everyone always wants to trade a young erratic big for an experienced big. The grass always looks greener.

There's a strange thing that happens to talented big men that put the work in. A light suddenly goes on in their head. The game slows down and becomes easier. There are X factors. You must have the talent. The skill level and the dedication. I think that Hawes has all of these things. He just needs a little more time.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

There's a lot of potential with this one--there's the foundation of all-around offensive skills, he shows some rebounding flashes, and he can really block shots with his length. And of course, he shows a desire to take three pointers, and has the shooting touch to knock them down when dared to shoot. And he's only 20 years old, so with that offensive versatility combined with good mobility and shotblocking skills, that makes him somewhat unique amongst big men, that's for sure. And he's got a mean streak. So I'd stick with him--sure he sometimes has mental lapses, is streaky with his impact on the game, and his shot may not be there at times, but I'll attribute that to his youth, and with experience he can overcome that.

 

[Aenadin]

the kid seriously needs to get stronger though.. he needs to hit the gym more... i mean im 5"8 and i got broader and wider shoulders than him lol....

but seriously i love his game and his all around versatility.. and if i were given a choice between him and oden.. id take hawes over him any day

because athleticism will not always be there for you. there will come a time where it will work against you. lets say both age... Oden wont be strong and athletic forever.... hawes still has his intangibles hence he will be more useful

i dont know if this is a good analogy but id compare shaq and vlade... shaq is a dominant monster yes strong and big.. nothing more you wont trust the guy to shoot three steps away from the basket... and as he aged.... he had nothing going for him other than get wider...hence he ruined the suns chances for a playoff spot. unlike vlade as he aged... his skill set became more valuable and more useful

he has the skill set and the talent to be an allaround player... if he gets stronger and gets more comfortable as the game goes.... hes going to be an allstar

 

[Packt]

but seriously i love his game and his all around versatility.. and if i were given a choice between him and oden.. id take hawes over him any day

because athleticism will not always be there for you. there will come a time where it will work against you. lets say both age... Oden wont be strong and athletic forever.... hawes still has his intangibles hence he will be more useful

i dont know if this is a good analogy but id compare shaq and vlade... shaq is a dominant monster yes strong and big.. nothing more you wont trust the guy to shoot three steps away from the basket... and as he aged.... he had nothing going for him other than get wider...hence he ruined the suns chances for a playoff spot. unlike vlade as he aged... his skill set became more valuable and more useful

he has the skill set and the talent to be an allaround player... if he gets stronger and gets more comfortable as the game goes.... hes going to be an allstar

I disagree with this completely. Hawes is a very mobile, agile, 7fter. Just like any player, if he was to lose that mobility, there are serious questions as to whether he could maintain a high level of play. The notion that Hawes is so skilled he'll overcome age better than others is ridiculous.

Shaq won championships, and even at this stage where he has slowed down a lot, he's still playing well. Even though they look to be out of the playoffs, PHO is still a 42 win team. At this point they've won more games than the bottom half EC playoff teams. Vlade still had value, but he slowed down a lot in his last two years with us, and couldn't even play for the Lakers. You could argue his value to us was more for his familiarity of our system than just having the right skills.

 

[Aenadin]

I disagree with this completely. Hawes is a very mobile, agile, 7fter. Just like any player, if he was to lose that mobility, there are serious questions as to whether he could maintain a high level of play. The notion that Hawes is so skilled he'll overcome age better than others is ridiculous.

Shaq won championships, and even at this stage where he has slowed down a lot, he's still playing well. Even though they look to be out of the playoffs, PHO is still a 42 win team. At this point they've won more games than the bottom half EC playoff teams. Vlade still had value, but he slowed down a lot in his last two years with us, and couldn't even play for the Lakers. You could argue his value to us was more for his familiarity of our system than just having the right skills.

but do you think hawes can still get a little more athletic? cause he could be such a beast if he did

regarding shaq.... when the game is on the line score is close like 1 point 2 points or something.... who would you want the ball go to? most of the time it wont go to shaq... cause he is such a poor FT shooter most of the time it goes to a shooter and that is why i always take emphasis on skill set

you wouldnt see me drawing up a play where in shaq gets the ball he gets fouled and bawls up airballs costing us the W lol

 

[Padrino]

but do you think hawes can still get a little more athletic? cause he could be such a beast if he did

regarding shaq.... when the game is on the line score is close like 1 point 2 points or something.... who would you want the ball go to? most of the time it wont go to shaq... cause he is such a poor FT shooter most of the time it goes to a shooter and that is why i always take emphasis on skill set

you wouldnt see me drawing up a play where in shaq gets the ball he gets fouled and bawls up airballs costing us the W lol

athleticism is kinduva naturally occurring thing. i don't think any player can become more athletic, unless it specifically involves shedding excess pounds, and at 245 pounds, that's clearly not spencer hawes' problem...

i think he's got great athleticism for his size. the key for hawes now is developing his skills to complement the athleticism he already has. and he could stand to put on a little more muscle, really. he's got an impressive set of post moves for such a young player, but lacks the strength to establish much of position down low, so (apart from natt's at-times horendous play-calling) he has few opportunities to utilize his offensive savvy...

 

[D-Rock]

I disagree with this completely. Hawes is a very mobile, agile, 7fter. Just like any player, if he was to lose that mobility, there are serious questions as to whether he could maintain a high level of play. The notion that Hawes is so skilled he'll overcome age better than others is ridiculous.

It's possible to get stronger without bulking up too much.

 

[HighTopKicks]

but do you think hawes can still get a little more athletic? cause he could be such a beast if he did

regarding shaq.... when the game is on the line score is close like 1 point 2 points or something.... who would you want the ball go to? most of the time it wont go to shaq... cause he is such a poor FT shooter most of the time it goes to a shooter and that is why i always take emphasis on skill set

you wouldnt see me drawing up a play where in shaq gets the ball he gets fouled and bawls up airballs costing us the W lol

It depends on what you consider athletic? Heavy weight prize fighter improve their mobility, footwork, and stamina though training. Certainly, that kind of chardio type training wouldn't hurt Hawes. It could make him quicker and improve his lateral movement, and even increase his vertical. Not all athletism is inherited.

 

[Aenadin]

he needs to have a big burly trainer to get that right down the middle i shall fight attitude....

like a big burly player to work against with during practice...


btw... based on athleticism can anybody tell me Hawes Pros and Cons.. i havent been watching kings games that much might be able to watch one this holy week...

 

[Prince_XY]

btw... based on athleticism can anybody tell me Hawes Pros and Cons.. i havent been watching kings games that much might be able to watch one this holy week...

If you remember how Chris Mihm of the Lakers, then you can picture how Hawes had/would become. That is just my opinion. I think most of us over-estimate Hawes' talent because we are biased. Hawes is one of "our kids" in development and most of us want to be hopeful, so we say he is this good and he is this talented and blah, blah, blah. Some even think that talent-wise Hawes is better than Oden and/or Biedrins. When I read that, I said oh my Lord. So if I were you, just watch him play yourself.

 

[Aenadin]

to each his own i guess... but he cant be THAT much of a likeness to mihm... id watch him if i live in Cali and had the money they dont broadcast kings games here that much...

 

[Spike]

If you remember how Chris Mihm of the Lakers, then you can picture how Hawes had/would become. That is just my opinion. I think most of us over-estimate Hawes' talent because we are biased. Hawes is one of "our kids" in development and most of us want to be hopeful, so we say he is this good and he is this talented and blah, blah, blah. Some even think that talent-wise Hawes is better than Oden and/or Biedrins. When I read that, I said oh my Lord. So if I were you, just watch him play yourself.

I disagree with your assessment. Hawes has already posted better numbers than Mihm on several occasions, and he has a higher ceiling. When he gets minutes, and especially as of late, he's been consistently posting double-doubles. Adding some strength and quickness as others have pointed out is still a possibility at 20 years of age. I won't say better than Oden, because they bring different skill sets to the game. Biedrins is a "big man" playing with little people in GS - the rebounds HAVE to fall his way by default, so I don't want to go there.

 

[rainmaker]

I disagree with your assessment. Hawes has already posted better numbers than Mihm on several occasions, and he has a higher ceiling. When he gets minutes, and especially as of late, he's been consistently posting double-doubles. Adding some strength and quickness as others have pointed out is still a possibility at 20 years of age. I won't say better than Oden, because they bring different skill sets to the game. Biedrins is a "big man" playing with little people in GS - the rebounds HAVE to fall his way by default, so I don't want to go there.

I agree. I don't think talent-wise Mihm and Spencer are comparible. Spencer is am much better passer, has better post moves, and a better jumper. Its more a question of how he will utilize those skills down the road, but the talent is there.

I think athleticism is overrated. Dirk, Duncan, and Gasol are all-nba big men, and none of them are what anyone would call "athletic". You don't have to be athletic to have a successful nba career. I would rather have a talented big man like a gasol or dirk, over an athletic guy why has always relied on his athleticism instead of improving on his skillset.

 

[hammystyle]

Biedrins is a "big man" playing with little people in GS - the rebounds HAVE to fall his way by default, so I don't want to go there.

The Kings are a worse rebounding team than the Warriors. Although they are the worst and 2nd worst.

 

[Oprostaj]

Biedrins is a GOOD rebounder. The fact that everybody around him is smaller is not his fault, and he still has the opposition to rebound against. Hawes does not focus on rebounding, and Biedrins does. It's his primary job. Comparing apples and oranges.