Spencer Hawes needs to come off the bench

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This guy's presence does nothing for our team. I wish Paul Westphal would either bring him off the bench or instead give time to Sean May. He's way too soft for a center, and he looks only looks to shoot from the outside.Guard penetration into the lane was killing us last night. We need a center who brings fear into the eyes of opponents coming into the lane and who will put them on the deck harder than a ticky tack slap of the arm/wrist (which is what spencer does). By the way, he looks nervous out there a lot.
 
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Yeah, Hawes needs to come off the bench because we're wasting Sean May's considerable talents by not playing him.
 
He's had flashes of shotblocking potential. I think he had a month or so last season where he averaged 2bpg, he's had a couple 5 block games, I think a 6 block game too.

Confidence issues. I'm not ready to give up on the kid. For the first time in his career he has a good coach, which should help him since he's kind of a punk. If he can string a couple good games together like that one he had in Memphis he'll go on a roll.
 
Don't you just wish this Hawes thing would go away - it ends up in every thread. But, how could it not? - he's stinking up the place.

To me, he needs to sit for awhile- it's not like we don't have a backup center, technically at least, and I'd rather see Mayes out there with Hawes brought in to prove himself. Now if Mayes stinks it up worse than Hawes, then fine, at least the spot is earned by default. I don't believe giving Hawes less minutes now is going to hurt his development - maybe he just needs some pressure off and to feel like he's in a fight for playing time.
 
Don't you just wish this Hawes thing would go away - it ends up in every thread. But, how could it not? - he's stinking up the place.

To me, he needs to sit for awhile- it's not like we don't have a backup center, technically at least, and I'd rather see Mayes out there with Hawes brought in to prove himself. Now if Mayes stinks it up worse than Hawes, then fine, at least the spot is earned by default. I don't believe giving Hawes less minutes now is going to hurt his development - maybe he just needs some pressure off and to feel like he's in a fight for playing time.

I agree, completely. Nice post.
 
Sean May is just as soft as Hawes, and 3 inches shorter.

Unless a legit young replacement comes along for Hawes, I think he should still start. If he is going to develope into something it wont happen with him on the bench, and if he continues to play this bad all year at least we have a better idea of what we have with him.
 
Don't you just wish this Hawes thing would go away - it ends up in every thread. But, how could it not? - he's stinking up the place.

To me, he needs to sit for awhile- it's not like we don't have a backup center, technically at least, and I'd rather see Mayes out there with Hawes brought in to prove himself. Now if Mayes stinks it up worse than Hawes, then fine, at least the spot is earned by default. I don't believe giving Hawes less minutes now is going to hurt his development - maybe he just needs some pressure off and to feel like he's in a fight for playing time.

Have you watched the games? There's a reason Sean Mays isn't even in the rotation right now. He has done NOTHING to warrant any court time.

Spencer Hawes, on the other hand, is a 21-year-old LEGITIMATE 7-footer with potential and a need to have time to develop it.

As far as pressure goes, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. If you bench him and make him feel like he's in a fight for playing time, you truly think that will reduce the pressure?

If you take the time to read each of Brick's grade threads, I think you'll see that Hawes is a work in progress. Sean May, on the other hand, is not a center by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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I am also beginning to question whether or not Spencer is ready to be a starting center in the nba, it appears it might just be to much for him at this point. I'm not basing this off stats, but the fact Spencer looks completely lost out on the court the majority of the time.

What I really find troubling is last week Spencer said he was "still trying to figure out where he should be in Westphal's offense"-I'm paraphrasing. How much of a connection is there between Spencer missing summerleague and not understanding the offense?

There's a difference between lack of confidence and lack of preperation. The confidence I don't have much of an issue with because Spencer is only 21, and the confidence will return. But I fear a lot of his struggles are a result of not having a productive offseason, and not coming into camp as prepared as the rest of the young guys.

But in terms of benching Spencer, thats not an option with our current roster.
 
Start Hawes, but tell him that being a starter means nothing if he doesn't play like one. He will always be a sub until he plays like a starter. One game here and there is just offensive to his coaches who probably preach consistency and accountability.
 
The thing that puzzles me is some of you act as though Hawes isn't trying, he's out there with an "I don't give a rat's patoot" attitude, etc. and I sure don't see that. I see him hustling and I see him frustrated. He's surrounded by incredibly young teammates. There isn't really a veteran presence out there right now that can help bring stability to his game. I don't mean to disparage SAR in any way, but I would think he - as the big man coach - would be the one shouldering at least some of the blame for Hawes' present problems. If SAR can't do the job, perhaps we should think about bringing in someone who could.
 
I thought Spencer played pretty good against Dallas. Made a couple of shots, some good passes, rebounds. He's got to get his confidence restored, and benching him wouldn't do that.
 
I honestly believe that a certain percentage of our fan base isn't happy unless they're griping about someone. KT has been very disappointing as far as that goes this year, so the obvious choice for the face on the dart board fell to Hawes.
 
This guy's presence does nothing for our team. I wish Paul Westphal would either bring him off the bench or instead give time to Sean May. He's way too soft for a center, and he looks only looks to shoot from the outside.Guard penetration into the lane was killing us last night. We need a center who brings fear into the eyes of opponents coming into the lane and who will put them on the deck harder than a ticky tack slap of the arm/wrist (which is what spencer does). By the way, he looks nervous out there a lot.
Is this not the way Sean May lost his "experimental" starting job to Hawes?

All that Sean May did was play outside too and shoot those stinking jumpers. Sean May also had not shown he wanted to bang with the other big boys wearing a uniform different from his. And at 6' 9", he had not shown any toughness that is better than the feminine 7' 1" Hawes brings.

Both Hawes and May are natural SLOW and SOFTY BIGS with very similar negative impact on this team. So it won't really matter who you use as starter among the two.

For the meantime that Petrie is sleeping again and not addressing this problem of lacking a true defensive and manly center, I would want Westphall to start Thompson at the 5, and try starting Greene at the 4 with Nocioni at 3. A lot of you will not agree with starting Thompson and Greene in positions other than their natural positions, but we don't have that much options to experiment on. I think it is worth to try on a couple of games.
 
Is this not the way Sean May lost his "experimental" starting job to Hawes?

All that Sean May did was play outside too and shoot those stinking jumpers. Sean May also had not shown he wanted to bang with the other big boys wearing a uniform different from his. And at 6' 9", he had not shown any toughness that is better than the feminine 7' 1" Hawes brings.

Both Hawes and May are natural SLOW and SOFTY BIGS with very similar negative impact on this team. So it won't really matter who you use as starter among the two.

For the meantime that Petrie is sleeping again and not addressing this problem of lacking a true defensive and manly center, I would want Westphall to start Thompson at the 5, and try starting Greene at the 4 with Nocioni at 3. A lot of you will not agree with starting Thompson and Greene in positions other than their natural positions, but we don't have that much options to experiment on. I think it is worth to try on a couple of games.

Finding a true defensive and "manly" center isn't as simple as opening the yellow pages and letting your fingers do the walking.

You seem to really have it in for Hawes, which is your choice of course, but I think you keep overlooking the obvious. Hawes is still learning, he's working hard to try and improve his game, AND he's only 21 years old. Right now the team is finding their identity; you don't find identity by putting one of your young players on the bench and moving others out of their natural positions as an "experiment." It never works out well.

This isn't NBA2K10 or whatever. This is the real NBA. Coaches are working for the long-term, not for some quick fix that will work for a game or two because it's different but then totally and completely blow up in their faces.
 
If we had another option I would say yes. But we don't. We're thin at the center positon, which is why I was hoping we would do something to aquire another center. And May isn't a center! For the moment at least, Hawes is it. He is still young, and he is gifted skill wise. But at times he just looks confused. One time he'll block out for a rebound, and it will end up being one of our own players he blocks out. The next time he'll just stand and watch while Gooden slides past him for an offensive rebound.

I don't think the Kings have any option other than starting him at this point in time.
 
what upsets me is i know this kid has the tools to be a good low post player.. he's just not maximizing it. he already has a arsenal of low post moves. i just hope he realizes his potential before its time to give him an extension (that is if we haven't moved him yet)
 
you don't find identity by putting one of your young players on the bench and moving others out of their natural positions as an "experiment." It never works out well.

This isn't NBA2K10 or whatever. This is the real NBA. Coaches are working for the long-term, not for some quick fix that will work for a game or two because it's different but then totally and completely blow up in their faces.
Tell Westphall he isn't playing NBA2K10 or whatever, and not me. And if you really believe firmly about this opinion of yours, tell Westphall he needs to wake-up and realized he is in the real NBA. :D

In reality, Westphall had used Thompson and Greene out of their natural positions in so many occasions already. Thompson as a center and Greene as a power forward. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that we've been using and starting Evans as a point guard, even when a lot of professionals thinks he is a natural shooting guard. :D

Are you saying Petrie hired a coach who is not qualified to coach at the NBA?:p
 
Hey my first post.

I think we need to try and move Hawes . The guy just lacks the toughness it take to be the 5 . Any updates on the Okafor trade talks?
 
Last time Paul Westfall tried to put Spencer on the bench they had a shouting match in the locker room. Spencer is intent on starting.
 
On draft day I was hoping for either Hawes or Noah (as those were the two bigs likely to fall to our spot) as we desperately needed a big man. Since we drafted Hawes I've been a full supporter. I was disappointed with his playing time his rookie year, as I would have liked to have seen him get more consistent minutes. Last year I was in full support of the Miller trade just for the reason that it cleared time for Hawes.
We needed to know if we had a legitimate player in Hawes and if he could be an important piece to this puzzle.

Hawes had played very good basketball at the start of the season when Miller was serving his suspension, and he played good basketball once he took the starting job after the Miller trade. So going into this season I felt confident that he was going to be a piece for our young team.

One of the things I've always liked about Hawes is that he got the attitude you want from a big man. He seems to have an edge about him, as if he's always trying to prove to people that he can dominate at his position. Unfortunately, that attitude doesn't always seem to show itself in his play on the court. I always attributed that to just being such a young player and his need to just develop his body and get stronger so he could physically do the things that he has the skill to achieve.

This year has been a major disappointment. Just watching these first 11 games has me wondering if Hawes really is going to be a contributing piece for our young team.

While I don't question his desire to be the best and to make an impact I think that he's really struggling with self-doubt.
I think he is telling himself that he can compete at a very high level, but since it's not coming together while on the court, he's getting hesitant and playing far more tentatively then what we saw when his confidence was high.
I also think that having the other young players (Evans, Casspi, JT) playing really well, and making an impact on the court is actually hurting Hawes. He's seeing his fellow young teammates making an impact, and it makes it all the more vivid that his contributions are lacking.

I am 100% in favor of bringing in a defensive/rebounding/shot blocking center. And if that Center ends up taking the starting position, that would be fine. With that said, I haven't given up hope on Hawes. I think he has the attitude which will eventually see him navigate through his self-doubt.
He's still so incredibly young, and big man do take longer to develop. We've seen some fantastic games by Hawes, so we know he has the ability to get it done. And our patience could really be rewarded if he can eventually get past these issues he's having and grow into consistently being the player he's shown glimpses of.

With that said, I think he should remain the starter unless there is a change in the roster. Moving May into the starting lineup with JT will not improve our team, and I think it also will negatively impact Hawes' confidence and delay his hopeful recovery.
Hawes knows better than anyone else that his play is not up to standard. I don't think he needs to have a fire lit under him, as I'd imagine he's built up a sufficiently massive bonfire under his own posterior.
He's struggling, and as a young player, I have to give him time to try to work things out. Now, if he still consistently playing this way by the trade deadline, then in my mind it would be reasonable to begin to look at other options.

Finally, I have no problems with Westphal using Hawes to better space the floor and keep the lanes clear for Tyreke. I just wish that we would go to Hawes even more than we are going to JT while in the post. Hawes has some beautiful stuff, and if he is getting consistent minutes, than I really wish it would be to develop what could be a huge contributing factor to his personal growth and ideally the team's success. Working hard to develop, and intentionally utilize Hawes' post game could be a huge factor in making this team significant again.

I'm loving what I'm seeing from our youth. Though Donte did not put up great numbers last night against Dallas, he still played far better in those limited minutes than almost any game last season. It looks as if he might have turned a corner, and if so, that bodes well for us all.

I thought that Hawes had turned that corner last season, and I hope for his sake, and the sake of the team, that he can find his confidence, rhythm, and game again.
 
Yeah, Hawes needs to come off the bench because we're wasting Sean May's considerable talents by not playing him.


I'm sorry but I think Sean May is more of a talent than Hawes is, at this point. At least May can throw in a putback once in a while, and can knock down that mid-range jumper pretty damn consistently.

While Hawes is absolutely garbage out threre.

I also want to see Hawes punished in some way. He doesn't deserve the minutes he gets.
 
On draft day I was hoping for either Hawes or Noah (as those were the two bigs likely to fall to our spot) as we desperately needed a big man. Since we drafted Hawes I've been a full supporter.

Didn't want to quote the whole post for space considerations, but well said on the whole thing.

+1
 
I'm sorry but I think Sean May is more of a talent than Hawes is, at this point. At least May can throw in a putback once in a while, and can knock down that mid-range jumper pretty damn consistently.

While Hawes is absolutely garbage out threre.

I also want to see Hawes punished in some way. He doesn't deserve the minutes he gets.

+1

Some of our fans are too "nice" to our players. Like you just said, he can knock down the mid range shot consistently and you see him battling in the paint for rebounds/putbacks a lot more than you see Hawes battling, when given the playing time. When Hawes stops playing like pure garbage, thats when you start giving him some minutes. One block from Spencer a game and people here go crazy. But for now, hes got to earn that with the minutes he gets, which is more than he deserves right now.
 
No, you don't rebench Hawes. He's going to either sink or win as a starting center. Last year he was swimming. This year he is sinking. But either way throwing some midget into the starting lineup ahead of him is stupid, as is going smallball. We're playing pretty well, we can afford to let him work it out.

This answer changes if you are talking about either moving him or if we bring in a third legit big. For now, he's what we've got. And fan frustration benchings or whatever are fortunately not part of Westphal's demeanor. Not after 11 games anyway. Not with no legitimate options. Play them so they develoip applies to Hawes as well as it does to Donte or Casspi or anybody else.
 
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I think the thing that annoys me the most about Spencer is that he seems to have a taken a step backward from his first 2 years. Most players step up in year 3, not step back.
 
I think the thing that annoys me the most about Spencer is that he seems to have a taken a step backward from his first 2 years. Most players step up in year 3, not step back.

I don't know if anyone else would agree, but to me it seems like Spencer has a bit of an ego. He's starting in the NBA. He thinks he's a little better than he is. I'm not saying he doesn't care, but his motivation might have died down a little. What he needs is a boost of motivation. If that comes by benching him and forcing him to play well, then so be it. Yes, there's a chance that can only hurt his "development" (he's in his 3rd year, developing is a barely acceptable word), but that's a chance we need to be willing to take. This team needs to toughen up and make players earn their minutes.
 
To be fair, Spencer has had to go through one coaching change after another. There's been no consistancy there. I remember Theus criticizing Hawes for making too many moves in the paint when he got there. Now he doesn't make any moves at all. He had to play some PF when he was on the floor with Miller. But Miller lived in the high post, so Hawes ended up drifting around on the perimiter. Reggie praised his three point shooting. And lauded the fact that Hawes had a very good perimiter game.

In college Hawes was the hub of the offense. It mostly ran through him. he was used to having the ball in his hands a lot. Thats not true anymore. Now when the ball is passed into the post its usually Thompson thats the recepient. To me, he appears to be lost on the offensive side, and has lost confidence in his shot to boot. This is not the time to kick him while he's down. Now is the time to find a way to boost his confidence. It would be one thing if he was lazy and didn't put in the work. But according to all reports, he's at the Gym early to work with Coachie and also stays late after the regular practice to practice some more.

I also don't think that Hawes is soft. He has a fiesty, sometimes nasty attitude about him. There is a difference between being soft and being ineffective. He simply makes a lot of mistakes. Both on offense and defense. But thats what a loss of confidence will do to you. Think how many times you've seen a hitter go into a batting slump and wa la, they start making errors in the field as well. Right now, I think he's fighting with himself. So I'm more than willing to be critical of him, but I'm not ready to dump him. Hopefully he can work his way out of it. And by the way. It was mentioned that this is his third year in the league. While technically thats true, he hardly played his first year. So this is almost like his second year.

As an aside. There's nothing I can do to regulate what or how someone expresses his or her opinion. But there are certain terms of description that I think are inappropiate. Garbage is one of those. There are people in this world that are the dregs of life. Bottom dwellers. Human garbage if you will. A sad truth. But I don't believe that term is an appropiate description of any of the Kings players. As I said, I can't make anyone do anything. But, you will lose my respect. If thats of any value to you.
 
We have toughness at all the other spots except center. We've discussed Hawes and May here but we do have another big that has toughness to spare: John Brockman. I don't understand why we aren't playing him more in the middle. Sure he's only 6'7" but he's a big body that can clog up the lane and he isn't afraid to bang.
 
Tell Westphall he isn't playing NBA2K10 or whatever, and not me. And if you really believe firmly about this opinion of yours, tell Westphall he needs to wake-up and realized he is in the real NBA. :D

In reality, Westphall had used Thompson and Greene out of their natural positions in so many occasions already. Thompson as a center and Greene as a power forward. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that we've been using and starting Evans as a point guard, even when a lot of professionals thinks he is a natural shooting guard. :D

Are you saying Petrie hired a coach who is not qualified to coach at the NBA?:p

Erm, no... I'm saying Westphal knows what he's doing and you, on the other hand, don't seem to have the same grasp of the situation. But I was trying to say it as nicely as I could.
 
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