Something major needs to change now and Fast

Bballkingsrock

Bballkingsrock

All-Star
#1
#1
This is getting ridiculous. Kings have gotten much worse from last season and are not even competitive in any of their games. The Kings have lost the last 12 of 13 games and it is not looking good at all. Tyreke has no lift, Paul has crazy rotations and line-ups during games, no defense in more than half the games (57% for LA is awful), and kings are last in 3 point percentage and second to last in PPG.

Kings need to either make a trade or FIRE Westphal ASAP. It needs to be a good change and somethign to get the kings notice. Whether it be a trade for Brooks, S. Jackson, Stuckey, Hamilton, Iggy, anybody to get something rolling in this city.

They are not even fun to watch anymore and its getting embarrasing. it doesnt even look like the team wants to win.........
 
Krunker

Krunker

Northernmost Kings Fan
#2
#2
In the postgame, Evans said:

""I think when I'm more aggressive that's the only way we'll have a chance," Evans said. "I was coming in thinking pass first but now I'm going to look to be more aggressive and try to take over the game and be aggressive."

I hope Westphal is not endorsing that strategy, sounds like it is going to result in everyone else standing around and our opponent waiting to clog the lane and strip/block Evans when he tries to drive.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#6
#6
To be honest, I want Tyreke shooting 20+ shots a game. It's not like anyone else has a better chance of scoring so he might as well do it and force the issue, regardless if he passes or not most of his teammates are selfish anyways and are going to look to just chuck up a couple of shots after a few drives or jumpers by Evans.
 
L

Lockehead

Bench
#7
#7
kingsboi said:
To be honest, I want Tyreke shooting 20+ shots a game. It's not like anyone else has a better chance of scoring so he might as well do it and force the issue, regardless if he passes or not most of his teammates are selfish anyways and are going to look to just chuck up a couple of shots after a few drives or jumpers by Evans.
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We have some decent shooters in Garcia, Casspi, Beno, Landry and maybe JT and Cousins. Individually, they may not be able to get the shot off on their own. But if you play as a team, and get good setups / execution, you have a much better chance of making those shots compared to if you were to attempt to create the shot individually. That doenst mean its not possible, but our team dont have many players who can create their own shot besides maybe Landry and Cousins. In any circumstance, getting good looks off of good setups (meaning play as a team) make for a higher percentage shot.
 
One and Done

One and Done

Bench
#8
#8
Here we go...t-minus trade deadline...again. The fact that our draft picks haven't worked out (yet?) isn't Geoff's fault (blame luck of the lottery), but he could've been more aggressive thus far in rebuilding ,ala Presti, Pritchard et al.

But I'd still like to think that our venerable GM has a sequence of franchise-redeeming trades left up his sleeve...although after five years of salary dumps and FA busts/scrub signings, it's looking grim for Mr. Petrie. He's done well with the cards dealt in the draft, but even the man himself will tell you that you can't rebuild through the draft alone...

Man, this is a much tougher ride than I'd thought it'd be, but I'll stick around 'til they leave...please excuse me while I vent. This is looking to be a rough, rough season, folks...
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#9
#9
Krunker said:
In the postgame, Evans said:

""I think when I'm more aggressive that's the only way we'll have a chance," Evans said. "I was coming in thinking pass first but now I'm going to look to be more aggressive and try to take over the game and be aggressive."

I hope Westphal is not endorsing that strategy, sounds like it is going to result in everyone else standing around and our opponent waiting to clog the lane and strip/block Evans when he tries to drive.
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As opposed to what we have now?

You know, its the sound of the star player losing faith in the system/his teammates, which normally we say is a bad thing.

But it is also the sound of the star player of a team that has lost 12 of 13 and just looked dead for major portions of the last two weeks with the worst offense in the league over that stretch saying **** it, this isn't working, I'll make it happen myself. Its the sound of somebody at least taking responsibility and trying to step up, even if its not how you would draw it up on the chalkboard. Its not the path to longterm high level success but given our extreme position this is NOT a bad thing. We need somebody to step up and give us some pop. We can wait around here and hope that somehow, someway the coach is suddenly going to inspire troops that have clearly tuned him out, that somehow our ever deteriorating team chemistry is going to start turning around over some period of weeks...or months, reverse course and we will all be singing kumbayah. But at this point, if Reke has to go A.I. to get us a win, go for it. I don't care how it happens at this point, we can worry about doing it right later. Right now we need to get Ws no matter how or why. I just wish I had more confidence in Tyreke's ability to pull it off right now -- if Tyreke stepping up just turns into a barrage of off balance jumpers things could get real ugly real fast. Who knows though, it will be interesting to see if passivity/overthinking has been part of the problem, and maybe he can get back to being dynamic just by simplifying things and going on the attack full time. If he was smart he would go recruit a couple of allies of the come on, let's do this thing, I'm going to need some wingmen variety as well.
 
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IfAt1st

IfAt1st

Starter
#10
#10
Krunker said:
In the postgame, Evans said:

""I think when I'm more aggressive that's the only way we'll have a chance," Evans said. "I was coming in thinking pass first but now I'm going to look to be more aggressive and try to take over the game and be aggressive."
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To be brutally forthright, Tyreke simply doesn't look good enough this year to impose his will on most teams.

He may THINK he can be aggressive and take over a game, but he has shown so far this year that he can't.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#11
#11
IfAt1st said:
To be brutally forthright, Tyreke simply doesn't look good enough this year to impose his will on most teams.

He may THINK he can be aggressive and take over a game, but he has shown so far this year that he can't.
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I would agree with this, but given where we are I'm more than willing to let him try. Maybe he'll rediscover his greatness by just playing instead of thinking, and suck up some of his teammates into his wake and inspire them. Maybe he'll fall on his face and end up more committed to whatever this team is supposed to do because of the realization he can't do it alone. Either way, it can't be any worse than this...nothing that has been going on out there night after night.
 
IfAt1st

IfAt1st

Starter
#12
#12
Bricklayer said:
Either way, it can't be any worse than this...nothing that has been going on out there night after night.
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:confused:

It most certainly CAN be worse.

He can push himself when his body is breaking down on him (ankles, now knees) and he gets a major injury, which cripples his development.

He wasn't even TOUCHED by Pao Gasol's knee, and he had to limp to the locker room tonight.

If Tyreke gets a season-ending injury, and is rehabbing into next year, we can say goodbye to any hope the Kings have of getting any better.
 
L

Lockehead

Bench
#13
#13
Bricklayer said:
As opposed to what we have now?

You know, its the sound of the star player losing faith in the system/his teammates, which normally we say is a bad thing.

But it is also the sound of the star player of a team that has lost 12 of 13 and just looked dead for major portions of the last two weeks with the worst offense in the league over that stretch saying **** it, this isn't working, I'll make it happen myself. Its the sound of somebody at least taking responsibility and trying to step up, even if its not how you would draw it up on the chalkboard. Its not the path to longterm high level success but given our extreme position this is NOT a bad thing. We need somebody to step up and give us some pop. We can wait around here and hope that somehow, someway the coach is suddenly going to inspire troops that have clearly tuned him out, that somehow our ever deteriorating team chemistry is going to start turning around over some period of weeks...or months, reverse course and we will all be singing kumbayah. But at this point, if Reke has to go A.I. to get us a win, go for it. I don't care how it happens at this point, we can worry about doing it right later. Right now we need to get Ws no matter how or why. I just wish I had more confidence in Tyreke's ability to pull it off right now -- if Tyreke stepping up just turns into a barrage of off balance jumpers things could get real ugly real fast. Who knows though, it will be interesting to see if passivity/overthinking has been part of the problem, and maybe he can get back to being dynamic just by simplifying things and going on the attack full time. If he was smart he would go recruit a couple of allies of the come on, let's do this thing, I'm going to need some wingmen variety as well.
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Brick, you dont think Tyreke is part of the problem right now, if not the problem?
 
K

Kingstime

Bench
#15
#15
Man it is about time Tyreke finally speaks up about this crap we are watching on the court. Ive gotten far past tired of watching Reke 'feel' out these games while other guys take silly shots. If the ball isnt gonna be tossed into Big Cuz than Reke has to atleast try to force his stamp on to these games. He is our only guy capable of getting his own shot, until we get more guys who can get their own the guys we do have need to spot up and shut up. We dont even look like a team out there because there are too many egos out there when these players dont know there roles, there needs to be roles established.

The only doubt I have is if Reke is healthy enough to relentlesdly attack the rim.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
#16
Lockehead said:
Brick, you dont think Tyreke is part of the problem right now, if not the problem?
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THE problem? That just shows a world of lack of perspective.

A problem? Most certainly. But much of the "A problem" stuff can be summed up simply by "he has to be better". And given our woes it does not matter whether he is better as a scorer, better as a passer, better however he is better, he just has to be better. Much better. He can't be a player that you merely slot in a role in the system, he has to be the player you build the sytem around. He has to be great, dominant, every time out in whatever way he is going to be dominant. Then you have an anchor. Then you have something steady that you can build around, count on, make reasonable lineup decisions around, make roster decisions around. He can't just be one of the guys, and he can't sit around waiting for his less talented teammates. And outside of some short flashes he hasn't done that. So if he is going to step up and try, then I am all for it. And no, guys stepping up and trying does not normally result in career ending injuries. We need our star to play like a star and try to lead us out of this. There IS no worse right now. We have been the very worst in the NBA basically since that early season Lakers game, and there is no reason for it.
 
D

DeaconBlues

G-League
#17
#17
Kingstime said:
Man it is about time Tyreke finally speaks up about this crap we are watching on the court. Ive gotten far past tired of watching Reke 'feel' out these games while other guys take silly shots. If the ball isnt gonna be tossed into Big Cuz than Reke has to atleast try to force his stamp on to these games. He is our only guy capable of getting his own shot, until we get more guys who can get their own the guys we do have need to spot up and shut up. We dont even look like a team out there because there are too many egos out there when these players dont know there roles, there needs to be roles established.

The only doubt I have is if Reke is healthy enough to relentlesdly attack the rim.
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Surrpunding a high caliber player with shooters is what they tried to do all those years in cleveland, which didn't work and looked like *** in the playoffs. Adding Mo Williams was their attempt to add another guy who could create. Didn't work out.

If the Kings want to win games they'll need more ball movement and more off-ball movement. Tyreke trying to force the issue won't help that.

They need to step up as a team, not as individuals. But if Reke can get some points on the board early maybe he'll inspire some confidence in whoever is playing with him that day.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#18
#18
DeaconBlues said:
Surrpunding a high caliber player with shooters is what they tried to do all those years in cleveland, which didn't work and looked like *** in the playoffs. Adding Mo Williams was their attempt to add another guy who could create. Didn't work out.

If the Kings want to win games they'll need more ball movement and more off-ball movement. Tyreke trying to force the issue won't help that.

They need to step up as a team, not as individuals. But if Reke can get some points on the board early maybe he'll inspire some confidence in whoever is playing with him that day.
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Surrounding a high caliber player with shooters, and playing defense (which was the critical other component) put those Cavaliers teams a million miles ahead of where we are today. They won 60 games a season, made the Finals, were an annual contender. Did they win it all? No. But they won and won some more. We would kill to have that level of success. I don't think it is how to win a title, but there is a long way, a LONG way to go between us and those Cavs teams before we could ever even say "golly gosh, this only winning 60+ games and getting to the WCF every year isn't enough for us, let's change things up and get a title."
 
K

Kingstime

Bench
#19
#19
DeaconBlues said:
Surrpunding a high caliber player with shooters is what they tried to do all those years in cleveland, which didn't work and looked like *** in the playoffs. Adding Mo Williams was their attempt to add another guy who could create. Didn't work out.

If the Kings want to win games they'll need more ball movement and more off-ball movement. Tyreke trying to force the issue won't help that.

They need to step up as a team, not as individuals. But if Reke can get some points on the board early maybe he'll inspire some confidence in whoever is playing with him that day.
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I will take the Lebron-ball over this right now, sometimes you just gotta roll with what you have and for what we have Reke needs that ball in his hands 60 percent of the time when he is out there. Outsde of DMC nobody can create their own shot, sure there's Beno but he will also stumble and fumble his way to a turnover. This team has some guys who can be pure deadly spot up shooters if they just learn their role within the NBA, sorry but Beno Udrih is NOT Steve Nash. All I have seen this season is a bunch of egos out there and no team it's sickening to watch since we were all blessed with the Divac era un selfish Kings. But those days are so far gone and our roster now screams out for our best player to dominate te ball and create for himself or others.

Now we wouldn't be having these troubles if they gave the ball to DMC in the post as he already as a rookie has the highest offensive bball iq of this whole squad I wish he was 6'5 he'd be having too much fun out there as he is truly a point guard in a centers body, but this isn't a DMC thread. Right now at this current point in time Tyreke Evans needs the ball to be effective and sadly this team does to no matter if they want to realize it or not. The only way these guys will look good is off wide open looks, the rare post feed to DMC and offensive board cleanup.

Some have said that a High School team could wipe the floor with us, so PW should dumb it down for these dudes to a high school level of coaching...

Spot up..
Defend....
Cut...
Box Out...
Rebound...

Hell if we didn't install a offensive gameplan in the preseason no use trying to now, if Reke is out there and his body can handle it give him the ball and get open.
 
Purple Reign

Purple Reign

Starter
#20
#20
It is Tyreke's inability to know that he is a major reason why this season has gone in the tank so quickly is the reason why this season has gone into the tank so quickly.

This dude is hurt, and it would not be a bad thing to consider a medical procedure that will get those weak ankles and feet of his right and ready for 2011-12, I know competitors want to play, but if our very best player can not physically play, of course it is going to affect the rest of the squad.

This is not Westphal's fault. And even if it is, you can not fire him right now anyway because there is no alternative and you might as well ride him out through the lockout.
 
D

DeaconBlues

G-League
#21
#21
Bricklayer said:
Surrounding a high caliber player with shooters, and playing defense (which was the critical other component) put those Cavaliers teams a million miles ahead of where we are today. They won 60 games a season, made the Finals, were an annual contender. Did they win it all? No. But they won and won some more. We would kill to have that level of success. I don't think it is how to win a title, but there is a long way, a LONG way to go between us and those Cavs teams before we could ever even say "golly gosh, this only winning 60+ games and getting to the WCF every year isn't enough for us, let's change things up and get a title."
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Yeah, perhaps I should've been clearer, but you're not really addressing the point there. As you noted yourself, the Cavs could defend. And Tyreke is no where near the level of player LeBron is.

The point is that this is not the direction you want to go. You do not have the talent for it, and even the team that did have the talent for it wasn't wildly successful. Not much reason to cultivate bad habits at this point, especially considering how underdeveloped Tyreke's distribution abilities are compared to his other skills.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#22
#22
LOTS of finger pointing going on right now. I don't think there is any one problem with the Kings. The 2 main players are very young. Tyreke is in a sophomore slump trying to find his way while dinged up. Cousins is just starting his rookie season and the refs are in his head. Last night if Cousins tried to body up on Gasol in the paint a ref blew the whistle. On the other end the Lakers clogged the paint and slapped at Cousins and the rest of the Kings on every play. This is all part of being a rookie on a young unproven team. This Kings team still needs TIME to gel.

A trade may be made but I like most of the players on the Kings. If you want to get something, you have to give up something. Unless you can pull off a deal like the Lakers did when they got Gasol:mad:

Is there a team out there in financial trouble (paying lots of luxury tax), playing poorly who might give up a star level PG, SG or SF?

KB
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#23
#23
Bricklayer said:
THE problem? That just shows a world of lack of perspective.

A problem? Most certainly. But much of the "A problem" stuff can be summed up simply by "he has to be better". And given our woes it does not matter whether he is better as a scorer, better as a passer, better however he is better, he just has to be better. Much better. He can't be a player that you merely slot in a role in the system, he has to be the player you build the sytem around. He has to be great, dominant, every time out in whatever way he is going to be dominant. Then you have an anchor. Then you have something steady that you can build around, count on, make reasonable lineup decisions around, make roster decisions around. He can't just be one of the guys, and he can't sit around waiting for his less talented teammates. And outside of some short flashes he hasn't done that. So if he is going to step up and try, then I am all for it. And no, guys stepping up and trying does not normally result in career ending injuries. We need our star to play like a star and try to lead us out of this. There IS no worse right now. We have been the very worst in the NBA basically since that early season Lakers game, and there is no reason for it.
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Tyreke is the problem only because his coach designed an offense around him.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#25
#25
Section 101 said:
Tyreke is the problem only because his coach designed an offense around him.
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If this offense is designed around Tyreke it is a rather spectacular failure as its doing him no good at all. I could get more productivty out of running 1-4 Flat every single time down the floor.
 
K

Kingstime

Bench
#26
#26
King Baller said:
LOTS of finger pointing going on right now. I don't think there is any one problem with the Kings. The 2 main players are very young. Tyreke is in a sophomore slump trying to find his way while dinged up. Cousins is just starting his rookie season and the refs are in his head. Last night if Cousins tried to body up on Gasol in the paint a ref blew the whistle. On the other end the Lakers clogged the paint and slapped at Cousins and the rest of the Kings on every play. This is all part of being a rookie on a young unproven team. This Kings team still needs TIME to gel.

A trade may be made but I like most of the players on the Kings. If you want to get something, you have to give up something. Unless you can pull off a deal like the Lakers did when they got Gasol:mad:

Is there a team out there in financial trouble (paying lots of luxury tax), playing poorly who might give up a star level PG, SG or SF?

KB
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Im in the same boat as you I like all these guys as a team I just wsh we used a offense to suit there strengths and sadlyI don't see any of these guys solid stone cold strengths yet as most of them are young. I still say if we could run certain plays to help DMC get some post production or if Beno would just take the mid range shot off p n r's, instead I just see a whole lot of iso ball from guys who shouldn't be doiing it. The only guy that should be running ISO is Reke, instead they all do it, instead of helpiing each other out. If these guys could all get on the same page and know their roles this wouldn't be THIS bad of a team.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#27
#27
IfAt1st said:
:confused:

It most certainly CAN be worse.

He can push himself when his body is breaking down on him (ankles, now knees) and he gets a major injury, which cripples his development.

He wasn't even TOUCHED by Pao Gasol's knee, and he had to limp to the locker room tonight.

If Tyreke gets a season-ending injury, and is rehabbing into next year, we can say goodbye to any hope the Kings have of getting any better.
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Actually it did look to me that he banged knee's with Gasol, but interestingly enough, I thought I heard him say after the game that he had banged knee's with Artest. I don't know if he has recognition problems, or if we just didn't see the real knee banging.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#28
#28
DeaconBlues said:
Surrpunding a high caliber player with shooters is what they tried to do all those years in cleveland, which didn't work and looked like *** in the playoffs. Adding Mo Williams was their attempt to add another guy who could create. Didn't work out.

If the Kings want to win games they'll need more ball movement and more off-ball movement. Tyreke trying to force the issue won't help that.

They need to step up as a team, not as individuals. But if Reke can get some points on the board early maybe he'll inspire some confidence in whoever is playing with him that day.
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If you call winning 60 plus games a season not working, then please give me some of that not working. Can we keep some prespective here.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#29
#29
Purple Reign said:
It is Tyreke's inability to know that he is a major reason why this season has gone in the tank so quickly is the reason why this season has gone into the tank so quickly.

This dude is hurt, and it would not be a bad thing to consider a medical procedure that will get those weak ankles and feet of his right and ready for 2011-12, I know competitors want to play, but if our very best player can not physically play, of course it is going to affect the rest of the squad.

This is not Westphal's fault. And even if it is, you can not fire him right now anyway because there is no alternative and you might as well ride him out through the lockout.
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To the best my knowledge I know of no medical procedure for sprained ankles. I'm certainly not the last word on the subject, so if such a procedure exists, then go for it. I do know this. There is nothing I can think of, other than some kind of support in the ankle area that can prevent a sprained ankle. And unfortunately Tryeke's style of play lends itself to an occasional sprained ankle. Not sure there's much that can be done about it..
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#30
#30
bajaden said:
To the best my knowledge I know of no medical procedure for sprained ankles. I'm certainly not the last word on the subject, so if such a procedure exists, then go for it. I do know this. There is nothing I can think of, other than some kind of support in the ankle area that can prevent a sprained ankle. And unfortunately Tryeke's style of play lends itself to an occasional sprained ankle. Not sure there's much that can be done about it..
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It was interesting to me, however, that in the Scott Howard interview he really seemed to imply that something might be done surgically for that ankle.
 
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