Something major needs to change now and Fast

[Capt. Factorial]

Kings Payroll is dead last in the nba. Anymore questions?

Amazing. So now this is the meme? Because less than a year ago the bitching was all about how Beno and Garcia were being paid so much money and we had to trade them right away. Now we're not spending enough! I guess we should just go drop $10M a year on Stephon Marbury and everything will be better.

 

[Mr. Hide]

What to do

Take Tompson, Jeter and Omri, They r the most group-like players, and build around them the others. Only those who will play as a group, will play. The team do not play any exersizes, only pick and roll. most attacks are no more than 1-2 passes. Nobody does defence because the players are more concern about their minutes and statistics.

Evans is Disaster! He throws 25% of the group shots, Do not activate the players. Why can't you see it?

You only counts evans points but he throws more than 20 shots every night. togather with his turnovers it a disaster to that group. I am sure most players are going in their head deep in the ground because they can do nothing and Westpaul is an alien.

 

[Larry89]

Maybe it would be time to rest Tyreke, Rest Dally since they are both injured pretty good, bring whiteside and get him some PT Start Cousins

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

In the postgame, Evans said:

""I think when I'm more aggressive that's the only way we'll have a chance," Evans said. "I was coming in thinking pass first but now I'm going to look to be more aggressive and try to take over the game and be aggressive."

I hope Westphal is not endorsing that strategy, sounds like it is going to result in everyone else standing around and our opponent waiting to clog the lane and strip/block Evans when he tries to drive.

Yeah, pretty much...the offense slows down when it runs through Evans...we need to RUN dammit! I dont care if we play NO defense, we need to SCORE!! If we become the 98-90 Denver Nuggets that would be fine with me, at least when they lost, they still scored 120pts a game and made it entertaining! DO SOMETHING PETRIE!!!!!

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

take tompson, jeter and omri, they r the most group-like players, and build around them the others. Only those who will play as a group, will play. The team do not play any exersizes, only pick and roll. Most attacks are no more than 1-2 passes. Nobody does defence because the players are more concern about their minutes and statistics.

Evans is disaster! He throws 25% of the group shots, do not activate the players. Why can't you see it?

You only counts evans points but he throws more than 20 shots every night. Togather with his turnovers it a disaster to that group. I am sure most players are going in their head deep in the ground because they can do nothing and westpaul is an alien.

this!!!!^^^^

 

[cstorm]

and Westpaul is an alien.

Well, that's a first at least. Will his head explode if he hears Slim Whitman yodel?

 

[swisshh]

In the postgame, Evans said:

""I think when I'm more aggressive that's the only way we'll have a chance," Evans said. "I was coming in thinking pass first but now I'm going to look to be more aggressive and try to take over the game and be aggressive."

I hope Westphal is not endorsing that strategy, sounds like it is going to result in everyone else standing around and our opponent waiting to clog the lane and strip/block Evans when he tries to drive.

You can be aggressive and attack with the pass. Ballhogs never know the difference between being a passing threat and being passive.

 

[Lockehead]

THE problem? That just shows a world of lack of perspective.

A problem? Most certainly. But much of the "A problem" stuff can be summed up simply by "he has to be better". And given our woes it does not matter whether he is better as a scorer, better as a passer, better however he is better, he just has to be better. Much better. He can't be a player that you merely slot in a role in the system, he has to be the player you build the sytem around. He has to be great, dominant, every time out in whatever way he is going to be dominant. Then you have an anchor. Then you have something steady that you can build around, count on, make reasonable lineup decisions around, make roster decisions around. He can't just be one of the guys, and he can't sit around waiting for his less talented teammates. And outside of some short flashes he hasn't done that. So if he is going to step up and try, then I am all for it. And no, guys stepping up and trying does not normally result in career ending injuries. We need our star to play like a star and try to lead us out of this. There IS no worse right now. We have been the very worst in the NBA basically since that early season Lakers game, and there is no reason for it.

Thats the fundamental difference between what you and i think is best for our team. You want a system where everybody plays around Tyreke, similar to how the Cavs played around Lebron. I see a system where Tyreke is a part of that system, just a much more dominant part, like how Kobe and Jordan played in the Lakers and the Bulls - yes, even Kobe and Jordan were "slots" in their systems.

 

[pshn80]

So........ listening to this, I guess we should bench Evans until January. Not to rest him or heal him but to let a starting lineup of Beno, Cisco, Casspi, Thompson and ? start and play regularly, no Evans off the bench. Then make up our minds about things. Anyone have a better thought? This is a lot easier on me than firing Westphal (and hiring a new one) or making a massive trade to get some key (?) piece. You can do it and you don't even have to put my name on it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Thats the fundamental difference between what you and i think is best for our team. You want a system where everybody plays around Tyreke, similar to how the Cavs played around Lebron. I see a system where Tyreke is a part of that system, just a much more dominant part, like how Kobe and Jordan played in the Lakers and the Bulls - yes, even Kobe and Jordan were "slots" in their systems.

Kobe and Jordan both played in the same system, a system without a PG BTW so that they could domiante the ball, and notably those guys always pissed off that system's founder by frequently breaking it when they felt they could do better.

And no, I would rather the Kings not go to the Lebron system as a permanent solution. But it is MADNESS, utter madness, to have such a philosophical objection to great players dominating that you would rather go on as we have been than have Tyreke take over. So if he is ready to take over, thinks he can actyually do it, then go for it young man. What has been going on has crushed team morale, made the fans stupid, possibly started to threaten the team's continued presence in Sacramento,and in general been all kinds of bad. If Tyreke morphed into LeBron tommorow and could single handedly carry us out of this and back into respectability behind a great player playing at an insane level, I would kiss the ground he walked on. And so would any fan of the team. Because the way we are going the team is dead, and Sacramento may lose them.

We can worry about playing a system that can win a title or whatever down the road after we are no longer on pace to win 15 games and clean out the whole building.

 

[Lockehead]

This has nothing to do with philosophy. Im talking about the game of basketball as i see it on the court itself. Kobe and Jordan dominated the ball, but they did so in a coachable fashion. They werent allowed to run loose (except in their early years where stat padding and individual achievements may had been more of a concern than building a winning team). The point is talent is nothing if you cant tame it, and thats what im seeing with Tyreke and our coaching staff. Tyreke has talent, nobody is arguing this, but it is of no use to the team if its not controlled (read: coachable). Right now were letting Tyreke run loose on the floor, while having everybody else play around that wild style of play. And people question why we dont see any consistency, or why our team seems to stagnate when hes on the floor?

A system that can win a title goes hand in hand with a team that can develop (and one where the talent is controlled) , NOT a team where you have your most talented guy run loose on the floor while everybody role plays around him.

 

[Bricklayer]

This has nothing to do with philosophy. Im talking about the game of basketball as i see it on the court itself. Kobe and Jordan dominated the ball, but they did so in a coachable fashion. They werent allowed to run loose (except in their early years where stat padding and individual achievements may had been more of a concern than building a winning team). The point is talent is nothing if you cant tame it, and thats what im seeing with Tyreke and our coaching staff. Tyreke has talent, nobody is arguing this, but it is of no use to the team if its not controlled (read: coachable). Right now were letting Tyreke run loose on the floor, while having everybody else play around that wild style of play. And people question why we dont see any consistency, or why our team seems to stagnate when hes on the floor?

A system that can win a title goes hand in hand with a team that can develop (and one where the talent is controlled) , NOT a team where you have your most talented guy run loose on the floor while everybody role plays around him.

You can win a LOT of games with your best player "running loose" out on the floor. A LOT. And you can do it much quicker than you can implement a system we have no intentojn of running, get everyone to buy in, and be the youngest team in history to run it effectively. Setting out the Phil Jackson traingle, wiht the likely two best SGs of all time as the standard for the only way to play is silly. those teams had a few things going for them. Among them older players than we have, and in the second and third runs tons of vet players who had played the system for years. Could Phil do wonders with Tryeke in his traingle? Sure, probably. But we are mid-disastrous season with a bunch of kids. That's all a pointless exercse right now.

IF Tyreke was/is ready, there might not be a quicker way in all of basketball for us to get this turned than have him just take over. Now there are major questions if he is. But IF he were, it would absolutely represent one of our fastest ways out of this, and even if we never left it its a style of play that has seen guys reach the NBA Finals. Its not the best style of play, but it can be brutally effective at a very high level, and trounce all kinds of lesser teams playing "better" systems. Its failure has always been at the final test, not day to day.

 

[gunks]

^^^ Thats assuming Reke gets to that level.

That is a Kobe/LeBron/Jordan/Wade level of play. Otherwise he's just T-Mac/Pierce/Roy. Great player, but not one that can really carry a team by themselves (not that any of these ^ guys did it solo either, but you know what I'm saying.).


Now, a healthy Reke is pretty hard to guard. Teams were packing the paint on him last season and he was still getting his. Add a jumpshot to that and we got us a beast. But health is really starting to be an issue. I wonder if the ankle issues (that will always be there) are being exacerbated by the new foot thing.

So far, this has been a very disappointing season for Reke. I'm not worried yet. I want to see what a healthy Reke can do a season or two down the road. I have a feeling he can play some "me first" bully ball that will actually translate into wins for us, but playing 60% or whatever, we arnt going to see that. We're going to see a liability.

 

[Lockehead]

You can win a LOT of games with your best player "running loose" out on the floor. A LOT. And you can do it much quicker than you can implement a system we have no intentojn of running, get everyone to buy in, and be the youngest team in history to run it effectively. Setting out the Phil Jackson traingle, wiht the likely two best SGs of all time as the standard for the only way to play is silly. those teams had a few things going for them. Among them older players than we have, and in the second and third runs tons of vet players who had played the system for years. Could Phil do wonders with Tryeke in his traingle? Sure, probably. But we are mid-disastrous season with a bunch of kids. That's all a pointless exercse right now.

IF Tyreke was/is ready, there might not be a quicker way in all of basketball for us to get this turned than have him just take over. Now there are major questions if he is. But IF he were, it would absolutely represent one of our fastest ways out of this, and even if we never left it its a style of play that has seen guys reach the NBA Finals. Its not the best style of play, but it can be brutally effective at a very high level, and trounce all kinds of lesser teams playing "better" systems. Its failure has always been at the final test, not day to day.

What weve been seeing is Tyreke trying to do that already, except for last night's game where apparently he was trying a "pass-first" approach. IF Tyreke can singlehandedly take over a game, im all for it, and i wouldnt object. BUT, weve already seen Tyreke try that so many times this season, and frankly, he is getting shut down, HARD, and its affecting not just himself, but our TEAM as well. He has to realize that he is not Lebron who can singlehandedly take over a game. No, he is an ORDINARY player, with an extraordinary talent - im talking about his driving/finish ability. Outside of that, he is nothing. Sorry but that is the harsh reality. BUT, he has a ton of upside because he has that one talent that he can do better(or at hte least match up with), than any body else in the whole entire league. The way that Jordan and Kobe was utilized is not so special. Sure they played within Phil's triangle offense, but the main thing was that they were coachable. They allowed themselves to become a slot in a system. the main key here is coachable: which in itself have a myriad of factors involved: play making, passing, playing with teammates, ball movement, and a bunch of other stuff.

I think the quickest way for us to get wins, is to do something we havent seen, put Tyreke at the SG position, this means none of the PG stuff for Reke. Sure Tyreke's stats might take a hit, BUT, and this is a big but - he will be forced to play with his team, meaning off the ball, becoming a part of the system while Beno or Head or Jeter makes the decisions with ball distribution, movement etc. Then we can start meshing as a team, and for once we may see some good team ball which will lead to wins.

 

[Gary]

In the postgame, Evans said:

""I think when I'm more aggressive that's the only way we'll have a chance," Evans said. "I was coming in thinking pass first but now I'm going to look to be more aggressive and try to take over the game and be aggressive."

I hope Westphal is not endorsing that strategy, sounds like it is going to result in everyone else standing around and our opponent waiting to clog the lane and strip/block Evans when he tries to drive.

LOL Evans was PASS FIRST in the past few games? That's pretty scary if he was because I didn't notice there was a PG on the floor in any of those games...

 

[Bricklayer]

LOL Evans was PASS FIRST in the past few games? That's pretty scary if he was because I didn't notice there was a PG on the floor in any of those games...

He certainly wasn't shoot first. If Reke were playing this shoot first he could easily without even breaking a sweat get up 20+ shots game. He has only done that once or twice. He may well be referring to the passivity he has been struggling with, those long stretches where he just brings it up and dumps it off and maybe settles for a jumpshot late in the clock. At least I hope that's what he's referring to.

 

[Gary]

He certainly wasn't shoot first. If Reke were playing this shoot first he could easily without even breaking a sweat get up 20+ shots game. He has only done that once or twice. He may well be referring to the passivity he has been struggling with, those long stretches where he just brings it up and dumps it off and maybe settles for a jumpshot late in the clock. At least I hope that's what he's referring to.

Well he wasn't "anything first" technically. You see those first few games at Memphis before they gave him the ball? I still have that Syracuse game on TiVo. That's what the last few Kings games have reminded me of. He's not doing anything out there.. He's not pass first that's for sure. But it's all talk until I see him actually do anything other than SAY he's going to do it.

 

[gunks]

I'm with the people who dont see Reke as a PG.

But he can definately be a 5+ assist SG, and those players are more often than not studs. I mean, Ray Allen (prime), Roy, Joe Johnson...Thats the LOW end of the spectrum for that type of player. Then you have your Jordans and Kobeses.

Of course, Reke needs to learn how to play off the ball. Can totally be done, but the FO needs to stop coddling him. Also, we need a good coaching staff.

(It seems like I sneak a jibe in at Westphal in every post I make, regardless of thread. Its subconscious...Honest).

 

[Uncia03]

At this point I would have no problems with Tyreke attempting to take over the game in the starting minutes, and using that to help get the team a win. And if it works try again the next game. This team just needs a win or two to help with their confidence and morale.
We know that Tyreke can do this from watching him last year.

My main concern is that he just isn't physically healthy enough to be that type of dominant player. And it's my opinion that a lot of our problems over the last few weeks are due to his health issues. He's been playing very poorly, except for a few periods of dominant ball. I think that the team is relying on him to play at his normal level, and he's been unable to physically perform to that level with any amount of consistancy.

So, though it's nice to hear that he wants to dominate, I'll have to see it to believe it, because all indications are that he isn't in a position, health-wise, to be successful in a dominant/super-star fashion.

 

[Section 101]

^^^ Thats assuming Reke gets to that level.

That is a Kobe/LeBron/Jordan/Wade level of play. Otherwise he's just T-Mac/Pierce/Roy. Great player, but not one that can really carry a team by themselves (not that any of these ^ guys did it solo either, but you know what I'm saying.).


Now, a healthy Reke is pretty hard to guard. Teams were packing the paint on him last season and he was still getting his. Add a jumpshot to that and we got us a beast. But health is really starting to be an issue. I wonder if the ankle issues (that will always be there) are being exacerbated by the new foot thing.

So far, this has been a very disappointing season for Reke. I'm not worried yet. I want to see what a healthy Reke can do a season or two down the road. I have a feeling he can play some "me first" bully ball that will actually translate into wins for us, but playing 60% or whatever, we arnt going to see that. We're going to see a liability.

The difference is you have/had to respect their outside shot.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Personally, I think Landry has been a big issue for this team, especially when he starts. He kills the ball movement, absolutely destroys it. And if his shots are not falling, the team certainly is. He is definitely best off the bench.