Someone's gotta go: Garcia,Noc,Udoka

[sactownfan]

With Garcia, Noc, Udoka, Green and Casspi all basically playing the same position... one or even two of these guys should be moved by the deadline... obviously in a deal for a starting/backup center.

i realize what im about to say will no doubt upset more than a few people here but....

Im sorta glad that Garcia hasn't played yet this year... NO IM not glad he got hurt... but his injury has allowed us to get a really good look at Greene and Casspi who otherwise could have been splitting the same mins.

Casspi and Greene have officially convinced me that they not only will be head and shoulders better than Garcia ever will be.... but in fact they're already better RIGHT NOW.....

personally i was completely over Garcia by the end of last year, and while i wasn't bummed about his contract extension. i wasn't thrilled either.... Garcia is an ok role player off the bench that can come in and shoot 3's or just chuck 3's.... he hustles and is scrappy but is no where near as effective as Casspi or Greene...

Basically it all comes down to this....SOMEONE HAS TO GO!

we all want NOC traded... and i think Geoff will exhaust all options trying to do that.... but....its not looking good

on the other hand Garcia is younger and if he was healthy i think his value would be much higher than NOC (obviously)

we have to include someone with Kenny Thomas and im thinking it should or will probably be Garcia...

for example if you wanted Okafor... lol! you could deal Kenny and Garcia for Okafor and Ike... something like that

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I agree we will need to free up some minutes at some point. Not enough to go around and I would rather see them go to the youth movement.

However, I would take Ime off of the list. He is dirt cheap and is just happy to be on a team and playing a role. Garcia and Noc have certain expectations about roles and minutes. Ime would be happy playing 2 minutes a game or 30 and we can use his D and shooting (when he is on) for certain matchups. He's a great 11-12th man.

 

[Bricklayer]

Its the same thread over and over again. Same quandry.

But yes, 2 people do have to go, one of them is going to be Noc. We have 100% of our future SF minutes already accounted for with Donte and Casspi.

And sorry, this isn't fantasy basketball, if any or all of these guys are going to reach their potential the other is probably going to be Kevin. Cisco is a roelpayer. He can fit in wherever, take fewer shots, get fewer minutes. Space the floor nearly as well as Kevin, at half the price, with more defense and versatility and no need to have the ball to make a difference. Kevin comes back and eats shots and there are none left for all these exctiting Kings that have revitalized the fanbase. Because it was dead the last time Kevin was here. There are no teams with three 20pt scorers, oh AND frontcourt scoring as well. Not how it works.

 

[kingsnation]

Because it was dead the last time Kevin was here.

You mean the first few games of this year? Without beating a dead horse, although it's already been beaten this thread - this was a different team last year.

Beno has changed his game this year. Let's give Martin a chance to fit with this new team as well.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

You gotta give it to the Kings marketing machine, while they have failed to fill the seats the past few years they sure did a fantastic job selling Martin.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Its the same thread over and over again. Same quandry.

But yes, 2 people do have to go, one of them is going to be Noc. We have 100% of our future SF minutes already accounted for with Donte and Casspi.

And sorry, this isn't fantasy basketball, if any or all of these guys are going to reach their potential the other is probably going to be Kevin. Cisco is a roelpayer. He can fit in wherever, take fewer shots, get fewer minutes. Space the floor nearly as well as Kevin, at half the price, with more defense and versatility and no need to have the ball to make a difference. Kevin comes back and eats shots and there are none left for all these exctiting Kings that have revitalized the fanbase. Because it was dead the last time Kevin was here. There are no teams with three 20pt scorers, oh AND frontcourt scoring as well. Not how it works.

Ultimately, I strongly agree with you. And am almost scared how much we have agreed on this season

However, I still want to see Martin play with this team. My guess is that we see incremental offensive improvement, but decreased defensive efficiency. However, I do think you are too hard on Martin and his inability to fit in with this group. His attitude may prevent him from doing so, if he feels he is still entitled to be the focal point of the team. However, having a player who can score off the ball from anywhere on the court should mesh well with a player like Evans and other team's penchant for packing the paint against us and daring our less efficient shooters to beat them. We always said Martin was more of a second or third banana than a true star. Well, that's what he is now.

With that said, I would trade him with one of our bigs for a front court star in a second.

 

[VF21]

You gotta give it to the Kings marketing machine, while they have failed to fill the seats the past few years they sure did a fantastic job selling Martin.

Wow... just wow. I guess for some people, having a team player who loves the town, loves the team, gives his all AND MORE, and has far exceeded everyone's expectations as to what he would accomplish in his career isn't enough.

The marketing people didn't sell a bill of goods with Kevin Martin. Kevin convinced a lot of us of his value and worth because of what he's shown in the years he's been on this team. Is he perfect? Of course not. But the way he's treated by some on this board you'd think he was a total and complete fraud, which he certainly isn't...

I'll bow out of this thread now, but I'm really sad that Kings fans are dumping on one of the few bright spots we've had the past couple of years.

 

[VF21]

Ultimately, I strongly agree with you. And am almost scared how much we have agreed on this season

However, I still want to see Martin play with this team. My guess is that we see incremental offensive improvement, but decreased defensive efficiency. However, I do think you are too hard on Martin and his inability to fit in with this group. His attitude may prevent him from doing so, if he feels he is still entitled to be the focal point of the team. However, having a player who can score off the ball from anywhere on the court should mesh well with a player like Evans and other team's penchant for packing the paint against us and daring our less efficient shooters to beat them. We always said Martin was more of a second or third banana than a true star. Well, that's what he is now.

With that said, I would trade him with one of our bigs for a front court star in a second.

Kevin has never felt he was entitled to be the focal point of the team. He's the epitome of a true team player; in fact, if truth be admitted to, one of his failings has been his desire to get other teammates involved, often passing up shots to give a chance to someone else.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Kevin has never felt he was entitled to be the focal point of the team. He's the epitome of a true team player; in fact, if truth be admitted to, one of his failings has been his desire to get other teammates involved, often passing up shots to give a chance to someone else.

I sincerely hope you are right. My post was not saying his attitude WOULD prevent it. Just that his style should fit well with Reke's unless his attitude does prevent it.

Going back to your previous post. I agree with you too. Just because Martin was/is not good enough to carry a team as the star player, doesn't mean he deserves to be blamed for our past failings. He played his heart out. I am beyond player loyalty, so if we can improve out team by trading KMart, I am all for it. However, if we did, I would give him a heartfelt send off and forever be appreciative of all he did for our team.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Wow... just wow. I guess for some people, having a team player who loves the town, loves the team, gives his all AND MORE, and has far exceeded everyone's expectations as to what he would accomplish in his career isn't enough.

The marketing people didn't sell a bill of goods with Kevin Martin. Kevin convinced a lot of us of his value and worth because of what he's shown in the years he's been on this team. Is he perfect? Of course not. But the way he's treated by some on this board you'd think he was a total and complete fraud, which he certainly isn't...

I'll bow out of this thread now, but I'm really sad that Kings fans are dumping on one of the few bright spots we've had the past couple of years.

I'm not a Martin hater, but he's our best trade piece and the guys we have been playing are forging a new Kings identity and its one that has people talking again. I don't understand the blind loyalty to Martin. I'm willing to give it a shot, but I do fear that if it doesn't work we will have completely sunk his trade value in the process. When people shoot down fantasy one-sided proposals that benefit the Kings because they can't live without Martin, something is wrong.

 

[Chupacabra]

Wow... just wow. I guess for some people, having a team player who loves the town, loves the team, gives his all AND MORE, and has far exceeded everyone's expectations as to what he would accomplish in his career isn't enough.

The marketing people didn't sell a bill of goods with Kevin Martin. Kevin convinced a lot of us of his value and worth because of what he's shown in the years he's been on this team. Is he perfect? Of course not. But the way he's treated by some on this board you'd think he was a total and complete fraud, which he certainly isn't...

I'll bow out of this thread now, but I'm really sad that Kings fans are dumping on one of the few bright spots we've had the past couple of years.

No worries Brick, not everyone is dumping on him. I certainly think hes a necessary piece on this team moving forward. Hes a MAJOR offensive weapon. Martin is going to come back and be relieved that he no longer has to shoulder the load as the main scorer. The Kings are going to have the best back court in the league. Im calling it.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

I just dont get it.

Why are we so quick to run a 25 ppg scorer out of town. A guy that can shoot anywhere from the floor, who is great off the ball and is really efficient. Not to mention he can get to the FT line and hit them.

All that and hes only getting paid 11 million a year.

We are near greatness and people want to extend the rebuild for a couple more years ?

 

[vistacruza_kings]

I just dont get it.

Why are we so quick to run a 25 ppg scorer out of town. A guy that can shoot anywhere from the floor, who is great off the ball and is really efficient. Not to mention he can get to the FT line and hit them.

All that and hes only getting paid 11 million a year.

We are near greatness and people want to extend the rebuild for a couple more years ?

u forgot to mention

-only plays 50 gms a year

-refuses to play through the smallest of injuries.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I just dont get it.

Why are we so quick to run a 25 ppg scorer out of town. A guy that can shoot anywhere from the floor, who is great off the ball and is really efficient. Not to mention he can get to the FT line and hit them.

All that and hes only getting paid 11 million a year.

We are near greatness and people want to extend the rebuild for a couple more years ?

What you call "running out of town" I call making a sensible move for a big man that can provide immediate impact on the team we have on the court right now. Martin hasn't been a part of this rejuvenation and while a lot of people are salivating his return its quite possible it doesn't work out the way we think. Its also clear we could use some big time front court help and that we have a logjam of talent in the wing spots. When Martin returns it is going to take away minutes from Greene and Omri who have been the best thing to happen to this team outside of Tyreke in years. Its also clear that Kevin is a marketable player with some trade value. Why people are convinced we can get top talent for the guys we think are worthless is beyond me. And 11 million dollars is a significant chunk of change, especially if Martin's production decreases even a tiny amount due to the added talent around him.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Until someone can give me a realistic target, Im going to say that we are trying to force the issue.

We have no shot at a big name free agent. So these trade for expiring shouldn't be considered.

There arnt any teams that want to trade a 6-10 to 7 ft big man that can rebound and play defense. Unless we are looking for someone who can be in cap trouble but im not sure about that.

We have a young stacked team, we dont have to make any more moves and just draft big next year and hit a mid level free agent and we could be set for the next 4-5 years to make a run.

 

[BMiller52]

Lets just cross this bridge when we come to it okay?

 

[Double-K]

-refuses to play through the smallest of injuries.

I didn't know my fellow kings fans are all superheroes who can look into people's mind and thoughts.....

We have no shot at a big name free agent. So these trade for expiring shouldn't be considered.

... or futurists who can predict the future....


Can we just wait and make sure he really is a witch before we poke the pitch fork at him?

 

[sactownfan]

just to remind everyone... this wasn't about Martin...

he's not getting traded anytime soon............

its about all the SF's we got and moving one or maybe two of them

 

[Sptsjunkie]

just to remind everyone... this wasn't about Martin...

he's not getting traded anytime soon............

its about all the SF's we got and moving one or maybe two of them

Lol, you know that the KF Law of Eventuallity says that sooner or later all threads will deteriorate into We Must Trade Kevin or Tyreke is/isn't a true PG eventually

 

[Double-K]

just to remind everyone... this wasn't about Martin...

he's not getting traded anytime soon............

its about all the SF's we got and moving one or maybe two of them

Haha... sorry for attempting to hijack the thread..

I think it's pretty clear that Noc and Udoka are both not in the Kings future. Udoka was just a temporary solution so the main focus is how to trade Noc. Which team(s) can use Noc? The win-now teams?

 

[mac]

Lol, you know that the KF Law of Eventuallity says that sooner or later all threads will deteriorate into We Must Trade Kevin or Tyreke is/isn't a true PG eventually

Haha that's quite true

 

[pdxKingsFan]

just to remind everyone... this wasn't about Martin...

he's not getting traded anytime soon............

its about all the SF's we got and moving one or maybe two of them

The reason it comes back to Martin is because he's the only one that is going to suck up major minutes from the kids that are making this team fun to watch again.

Noc? Well his minutes are already fading and he's the toughest to trade, if a deal was possible I think we'd have made it. We may have to face the facts that we traded for another Kenny Thomas here.

Cisco? Still injured, but there are some of us who see him as potentially a better fit with Greene and Evans than Martin. He's also half the price.

Udoka? Who cares, he can ride the bench, waive him, whatever. He's cheap, is he even guaranteed?

That's why it circles back to the guy who actually has trade value, who is a desirable player, a star player on a very bad team, maybe a guy with an outside shot at being all-star in the East (but never in the West), a guy with proven marketing potential who may no longer be a good fit for us and who hasn't been a part of the team's recent resurgence. We've seen the disruption that shoving a square peg into a round hole can cause.