So Just How Bad a Fit is Beno Udrih?

[Bricklayer]

I have had this thought several times this season, but it was going to take many little short bursts of collecting data before I could create this thread. We are often concerned with somehow upgrading Beno at that "other guard" spot, pointing to it as a future weakness. The question is: is it really?

Below I have compiled a list of every "other guard" to play alongside a big ball/shot dominant star/superstar guard (both SGs and big scoring PGs) during those ball dominant guards peak years. I am defining peak years here as a) not rookie seasons, since the pairing in those years is kind of random, b) not years where they missed over half the games, or were traded; and c) only the years when the ball dominant guard was clearly THE dominant backcourt presence (with the possible exception of a few of Vince's years with JKidd). In other words I've tried to scrape away the riff raff and leave the core years/pairings. These were the results:

Beno 10-11: 13.2pts (.492 .863 .325) 3.3reb 4.4ast

Jordan
86-87 John Paxson 11.3pts (.487 .809 .371) 1.7reb 5.7ast
87-88 John Paxson 7.9pts (.493 .733 .347) 1.3reb 3.7ast
88-89 John Paxson 7.3pts (.480 .861 .331) 1.2reb 3.9ast
89-90 John Paxson 10.0pts (.516 .824 .359) 1.5reb 4.1ast
90-91 John Paxson 8.7pts (.548 .829 .438) 1.1reb 3.6ast
91-92 BJ Armstrong 9.9pts (.481 .806 .402) 1.8reb 3.2ast
92-93 BJ Armstrong 12.3pts (.499 .861 .453) 1.8reb 4.0ast
95-96 Ron Harper 7.3pts (.467 .705 .269) 2.7reb 2.6ast
96-97 Ron Harper 6.3pts (.436 .707 .362) 2.5reb 2.5ast
97-98 Ron Harper 9.3pts (.441 .750 .190) 3.5reb 2.9ast
Kobe
98-99 Derek Harper 6.9pts (.412 .813 .368) 1.5reb 4.2ast
99-00 Ron Harper 7.0pts (.399 .680 .311) 4.2reb 3.4ast
00-01 Brian Shaw 5.3pts (.399 .797 .304) 3.8reb 3.2ast
01-02 Derek Fisher 11.2pts (.411 .847 .413) 2.1reb 2.6ast
02-03 Derek Fisher 10.5pts (.437 .800 .401) 2.9reb 3.6ast
03-04 Gary Payton 14.6pts (.471 .714 .333) 4.2reb 5.5ast
04-05 Chucky Atkins 13.6pts (.426 .803 .387) 2.4reb 4.4ast
05-06 Smush Parker 11.5pts (.447 .694 .366) 3.3reb 3.7ast
06-07 Smush Parker 11.1pts (.436 .646 .365) 2.5reb 2.8ast
07-08 Derek Fisher 11.7pts (.436 .883 .406) 2.1reb 2.9ast
08-09 Derek Fisher 9.9pts (.424 .846 .397) 2.3reb 3.2ast
09-10 Derek Fisher 7.5pts (.380 .856 .348) 2.1reb 2.5ast
10-11 Derek Fisher 6.9pts (.380 .864 .397) 2.1reb 2.8ast
Wade
04-05 Damon Jones 11.7pts (.457 .791 .432) 2.8reb 4.3ast
05-06 Jason Williams 12.3pts (.442 .867 .372) 2.4reb 4.9ast
06-07 Jason Williams 10.9pts (.413 .913 .339) 2.3reb 5.3ast
07-08 Jason Williams 8.9pts (.384 .863 .353) 2.0reb 4.7ast
08-09 Mario Chalmers 10.0pts (.420 .767 .367) 2.8reb 4.9ast
09-10 Mario Chalmers 7.1pts (.401 .745 .318) 1.8reb 3.4ast
10-11 Carlos Arroyo 6.7pts (.480 .788 .490) 1.9reb 2.2ast
Payton
94-95 Kendall Gill 13.7pts (,457 .742 .368) 4.0reb 2.6ast
95-96 Hersey Hawkins 15.6pts (.473 .873 .384) 3.6reb 2.7ast
96-97 Hersey Hawkins 13.9pts (.464 .875 .403) 3.9reb 3.0ast
97-98 Hersey Hawkins 10.5pts (.440 .868 .415) 4.1reb 2.7ast
98-99 Hersey Hawkins 10.3pts (.419 .902 .306) 4.0reb 2.5ast
99-00 Brent Barry 11.8pts (.463 .809 .411) 4.7reb 3.6ast
00-01 Brent Barry 8.8pts (.494 .816 .476) 3.1reb 3.4ast
01-02 Brent Barry 14.4pts (.508 .846 .424) 5.4reb 5.3ast
TMac (in his years as a SG, while paired with Hill and Mike Miller in Orl)
00-01 Darrell Armstrong 15.9pts (.412 .884 .355) 4.6reb 7.0ast
01-02 Darrell Armstrong 12.4pts (.420 .888 .349) 3.9reb 5.5ast
02-03 Darrell Armstrong 9.4pts (.409 .878 .336) 3.6reb 3.9ast
Vince (in years when he played primarily SG (calling MoPete/JRose/RJeff the SFs)
01-02 Alvin Williams 11.8pts (.415 .736 .321) 3.4reb 5.7ast
02-03 Alvin Williams 13.2pts (.438 .782 .329) 3.1reb 5.3ast
03-04 Alvin Williams 8.8pts (.405 .776 .292) 2.8reb 4.0ast
05-06 Jason Kidd 13.3pts (.404 .795 .352) 7.3reb 8.4ast
06-07 Jason Kidd 13.0pts (.406 .778 .343) 8.2reb 9.2ast
07-08 Jason Kidd 11.3pts (.366 .820 .356) 8.1reb 10.4ast
Johnson
05-06 Tyronn Lue 11.0pts (.459 .855 .457) 1.6reb 3.1ast
06-07 Tyronn Lue 11.4pts (.416 .883 .350) 1.9reb 3.6ast
07-08 Anthony Johnson 6.8pts (.433 .813 .435) 2.3reb 4.8ast
08-09 Mike Bibby 14.9pts ( .435 .789 .390) 3.5reb 5.0ast
09-10 Mike Bibby 9.1pts (.416 .861 .389) 2.3reb 3.9ast
10-11 Mike Bibby 10.2pts (.468 .588 .486) 2.2reb 3.9ast
Penny
94-95 Nick Anderson 15.8pts (.476 .704 .415) 4.4reb 4.1ast
95-96 Nick Anderson 14.7pts (.442 .692 .391) 5.4reb 3.6ast
96-97 Nick Anderson 12.0pts (.397 .404 .353) 4.8reb 2.9ast
Iverson
97-98 Jim Jackson 13.7pts (.460 .818 .348) 4.7reb 4.6ast
98-99 Eric Snow 8.6pts (.428 .733 .238) 3.4reb 6.3ast
99-00 Eric Snow 7.9pts (.430 .712 .244) 3.2reb 7.6ast
00-01 Eric Snow 9.8pts (.418 .792 .263) 3.3reb 7.4ast
01-02 Eric Snow 12.1pts (.442 .806 .111) 3.5reb 6.6ast
02-03 Eric Snow 12.9pts (.452 .858 .219) 3.7reb 6.6ast
03-04 Eric Snow 10.3pts (.413 .797 .111) 3.4reb 6.9ast
04-05 Andre Igoudala 9.0pts (.493 .743 .331) 5.7reb 3.0ast
05-06 Kyle Korver 11.5pts (.430 .849 .420) 3.3reb 2.0ast
07-08 Anthony Carter 7.8pts (.458 .753 .349) 2.9reb 5.5ast
Note: From 04-06 Philly started Igoudala and Korver together and I forget which one they called a SG and which one a SF, so I listed one year of each
Roy
07-08 Jarret Jack 9.9pts (.430 .867 .340) 2.9reb 3.8ast
08-09 Steve Blake 11.0pts (.428 .840 .427) 2.5reb 5.0ast
09-10 Andre Miller 14.0pts (.445 .821 .200) 3.2reb 5.4st

Looking at those numbers over 69 seasons of ball dominant guard pairings, and comparing it to Beno's numbers this year, is he actually that bad a fit? He would appear to be very much in the middle pack of the "other guard" tradition, with only his sudden inability to hit a three point shot clearly distinguishing him.

 

[KingsInBrazil]

I never though Beno was a bad fit on the Kings backcourt, hes indeed very skilled and nearly automatic on his mid range jumper... I dont think Beno is our biggest concern and even if we (Petrie) can find a way to get another guard I still think we gonna suck... theres much, much more besides this "right fit next to tyreke" talk... Imho our bad play this season has to do with Tyreke playing poorly and Cousins not living up to our spectations....

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Good analysis. I've been thinking for awhile now that Beno is actually perfectly sufficient and that solidifying the PF and SF positions are more pressing issues for the Kings.

 

[TIG 19]

Beno is more than solid here on the Kings. As @rookieoftheday posted: the Kings need good shooter on SF and good defender/rebounder or even better an all star PF!

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I don't think Tyreke will be as good as any of those guys above. He might, but he has a lot of improvement to make, and I'm not confident in him making that leap anymore.

That being said he still can be the main playmaker on a championship level team. Though I think either the PG or SF next to him has to be a 20ppg off the ball scorer type. Thats why we are so good when Beno hits that 20ppg threshold, otherwise we just don't have the firepower to win games. I'm thinking of a Mo Williams or Peja Stojakavic type, who can score with his jumpshot.

I'm confident in Cousins' ability to become a franchise post player now. Just got to mature in both his game and his demeanor. So ideally:

PG: Either a defensive shotmaker like Kyle Lowry or an explosive scorer like Aaron Brooks
SG: Tyreke
SF: Either a defensive shotmaker like Cisco or an explosive scorer like Richard Jefferson
PF: Athletic shotblocker with a good midrange game (Don't let me down Whiteside!)
C: Cousins

Right now we lack that consistent third scorer, Cousins has been up and down because of immaturity (in both his game and demeanor), and Tyreke has been up and down for various reasons, so we've been terrible.

I'd love for Tyreke to prove me wrong but I think his ceiling is Paul Pierce. Which is still a coup for the 4th pick in 09, just can't be the franchise player to lead a team to a championship.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

The problem though are the 3 point shooting you mentioned and the lack of D. Udrih can be a rotation player on a good team, but I still think an upgrade is in order for our starting lineup.

 

[kingofthejungle]

I see Udrih as a third guard on this team. The Kings probably can't go wrong with drafting Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker and bringing Beno off the bench.

That would leave the front court in need of some upgrades which can hopefully be addressed via trade or free agency.

Irving/Udrih
Evans/Garcia
?/Casspi
?/Greene/Whiteside
Cousins/Thompson

 

[matthew76]

The stats are pretty good, but they don't show the other side- the defensive side. Beno might be able to score, rebound, and assist, but if he gets blown by every time his man goes to the rack then we have a serious problem. Ideally, you'd want a good defender on the wings to pair with Tyreke, but get me straight, Beno is not and most likely never will be that guy.

 

[bajaden]

I think we can all agree that Beno has improved since he's been here. This year he's been one of our most consistent players. Last year he shot 37% from beyond the arc, and in the last 6 games he's shot around 40%, so his 3 pt shot seems to be coming around. So I don't think its a reach to have him playing next to Tyreke. In some ways its what we were looking for except for a little size and defensive presence. Not to say that position can't be upgraded, but I don't think its a pressing issue if you have a very good player at the SF position. At the moment I doubt any team is paying a huge amount of attention to defending our SF position. Doesn't mean that can't bite them in the butt on any given night, but it does show a weakness there.

We can either hope that one of Casspi or Greene eventually fills that role, or we can go out and sign or trade for someone. I'm assuming that Landry won't be back, so that does leave a hole at the PF position, unless they think Whiteside is going to be ready by next year. Which I doubt. Nothing a Zack Randolph wouldn't fix. Anyway, to get back to the original question. I think if you can upgrade at a couple of other positions, then Beno is just fine where he is. A little more quality depth would be in order though.

 

[Spike]

Interesting note on the defensive side:

Since it's really something that's hard to quantify, I looked up Defensive Ratings, which pretty much calculates points per 100 possessions. I took some examples from the above players (those who were generally known as better defenders) in the years when they were paired with said superstars, and got some other players (including the current career DRating leader - Bill Russell's numbers were not available) for comparison.

• Tim Duncan 95
• Bruce Bowen 102

Guards Paired with Stars:

• Ron Harper 101
• Derek Fisher 107
• Hersey Hawkins 104
• Eric Snow 105

Their average was 104.25. Beno's number next to Evans is 111.5 What does this mean? Basically, he gives up about 7 more points per 100 possessions compared to the average of those guards. It might not seem like much, but high volume shooters will have about 1700 attempts per year (again, not the best since it's attempts, not possessions - but I tried to find some guys with low assists to shot ratios to logic this out.) So the end result here would be that Beno accounts for having given up extra 119 points per year on the defensive end, compared to the average of the above players. Seems like a lot, but if you divide it by the number of games (82), then the number is actually a more benign 1.45.

Beno's inability to lock down costs the team about 1.45 points a game more than the "star wingman."

Now if you look at Defensive Win Shares (avg per year during the same years) you get the following:

• Tim Duncan 5.96
• Bruce Bowen 3.3
• Ron Harper 2.74
• Derek Fisher 1.68
• Hersey Hawkins 3.08
• Eric Snow 2.47
• Beno Udrih 0.9

Ultimately, what does all this mean? Beno's defense isn't hurting, but it isn't helping, but being on a team with a total of 6 wins isn't going to help your numbers right now, anyway.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Others have said it before; Beno Udrih is smartest player on the Kings who has really grown into a key role on this team. Thanks Pop! He's the consumate pro, focused in timeouts like virtually no other Kings player, vet leader (vocally and by example) on a team lacking it, and one of the best, most consistent shooters, especially from mid-range and charity stripe. He also does not give a hoot if he starts or comes off the bench. What's not to like? Ok, maybe his D can be mediocre or down right disappointing at times. But he hustles hard to stay in front of his man, keeps his hands outsretched for deflections, sees and run around screens, smartly plays the angles, has a strong enough frame at 6'3" to take charges and does so. Beno is the least of the Kings problems.

 

[jcassio]

Looking at the offensive stats, Beno looks like the right fit. But most of us realize he's a defensive liability, and can't seem to stay in front of his man. I must admit, however, that I don't find his defense as irritating as Mike Bibby's.
Nevertheless, for the Kings to eventually contend, Beno will need to play the 3rd guard behind Tyreke and someone else. Of course, that doesn't mean that our next draft pick should be a guard. Our immediate weaknesses are at SF and PF, where we have no one who will ever be confused as a potential all-star.

 

[bajaden]

Looking at the offensive stats, Beno looks like the right fit. But most of us realize he's a defensive liability, and can't seem to stay in front of his man. I must admit, however, that I don't find his defense as irritating as Mike Bibby's.
Nevertheless, for the Kings to eventually contend, Beno will need to play the 3rd guard behind Tyreke and someone else. Of course, that doesn't mean that our next draft pick should be a guard. Our immediate weaknesses are at SF and PF, where we have no one who will ever be confused as a potential all-star.

Not to pick on you, but you made a comment about his not being able to stay in front of his man. Unless your a very special player, your not going to stay in front of a lot of players in the NBA. Guys like Chris Paul and Tyreke are going to juke you out of your shoes no matter how good you are. The key is make them go the way you want them to go. You want to turn your player into the teeth of the defense. On the wing you deny him the baseline and make him go into the middle, where hopefully a Dalembert or whomever, will be there to pick him up. Beno has improved in this area. He still has trouble fighting through picks at times, but he does give the effort.

Beno did a fine job the other night on Conley defensively, and seriously abused him on offense. Anyway, people spend too much time getting caught up in how a player plays man to man defense and don't spend enough time watching the rotations, which is where the real defense is located. When the rotations break down, thats when the trouble begins.

 

[Sac.1989]

ive always felt when were rolling beno and tyreke playing together is one of our strengths. The only reason people look at replacing beno is simply because of his defense

 

[kingsboi]

I never had a problem with Beno being on this team. What I never was a big fan of was him starting, but he has to because there really isn't anything else behind him that is starter ability so he comes closest to being it. His offense has been nice and he tries to play D atleast, you can see it for the most part. But I doubt he's far from our problem at this point, we don't have enough scoring and our 1 and 2 punch are just inconsistent youngins.

 

[SacTownKid]

The problem with Beno is that he's no where near what some of those players, at least the winners, were defensively. Offensively he's fine IMO, but defense is a big issue. He plays pretty good one on one, but he can't get through screens to save his life! If he gets screened his man is guaranteed to get by him and that leaves the bigs in a tough spot.

 

[coban]

king's primary problem is not beno's defence. Primary problems is lack of rebounding (def/off).

 

[Prince_XY]

Anyway, people spend too much time getting caught up in how a player plays man to man defense and don't spend enough time watching the rotations, which is where the real defense is located. When the rotations break down, thats when the trouble begins.

It's like the chicken or egg thing though. But you have to take into consideration that when you have guard like Beno who is probably one of the worst man to man defender, problem with defensive rotations will always be a problem.

I actually see the breakdown on defensive rotations usually starting on him.

 

[Bricklayer]

king's primary problem is not beno's defence. Primary problems is lack of rebounding (def/off).

Not anymore. Was for years, but this year the addition of all the size + Reke being a very strong PG rebounder has meant we are actually one of the better rebounding teams in the league.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I have been sprinkling in my Beno love around various threads lately, and I think the pairing is fine for now, and potentially the future.

A lot of it depends on Evans. Actually, ALL of it depends on Evans. He needs to be much better than he is right now to be the best player on a winning team. I hope its just his health. I hope this isnt the real Tyreke Evans.

Im in no real rush to replace Beno. Clearly our biggest need is a 3 who can do a little bit of everything. Needs to be able to shoot the 3 though. Im also not sure we have a starting power forward. JT can do some things, but unless he can become consistent we're going to need more from that spot.

I think a big part of this thread has to do with the draft. I mean, thats were our next 'star' is most likely to come from. I really wish Harrison Barnes was who we thought he was going to be. Then there would be no question about who this team should take if we get the number 1 pick. Now I dont know. I still think Irving would be best player available, but Perry Jones or Terrence Jones may be the better fit. And even with those two potential small forwards, I dont trust either guy's jumper.

 

[steelevt]

it's not that beno is a bad fit. it's that some of us dont see him as the future pg that will take this team to the next level. he's a decent pg thats about average. he'll have good games and bad games but wont have consistent games where hes great, just most where he does ok. like others have said he's not the main problem. we could upgrade in other areas.

the thing i see with that list is except for a couple players, most of the players listed had another star on the team to help carry them (at least the teams that were championship contenders). jordan had pippen, kobe had shaq/pau, wade had shaq, payton had kemp, and penny had shaq. so maybe if tyreke and cousins turns into one of those caliber duos, then beno would be fine, but until they do, i'd take an upgrade at pg, pf, or even sg until then. because if the talent level stays the same, and beno is one of the better starters, this team is bound to be at the bottom of the league.

 

[FaStRmAn]

I never though Beno was a bad fit on the Kings backcourt, hes indeed very skilled and nearly automatic on his mid range jumper... I dont think Beno is our biggest concern and even if we (Petrie) can find a way to get another guard I still think we gonna suck... theres much, much more besides this "right fit next to tyreke" talk... Imho our bad play this season has to do with Tyreke playing poorly and Cousins not living up to our spectations....

I Ditto this remark. The problem rests squarely on the development of Cousins and the sophomore efforts of a one Tyreke Evans. I think the Media, the organization, the Newspapers, and in fact the Fans put a lot of expectations on those under 20 players and really caused a lot of pressure for those players to live up to those expectations. I think the banners on the wall at ARCO were a VERY bad idea from a player personnel standpoint, no matter what the Marketing implications were. It was just flat out DUMB. Other players from other teams interviewed regarding the banners laughed at them. I think it is going to take Reke and Cousins playing 1.5 to 2 more years of playing together, along with the addition of much more talent to really hit their stride. It is just a matter of the young guys getting experience, and the Maloofs are going to make sure Petrie adds more talent next year after the CBA. As Kings fans. we will have to just be the patient fans we need to be. NO MATTER how hard that has been in the last few weeks. Things will change.

 

[jcassio]

Not to pick on you, but you made a comment about his not being able to stay in front of his man. Unless your a very special player, your not going to stay in front of a lot of players in the NBA. Guys like Chris Paul and Tyreke are going to juke you out of your shoes no matter how good you are. The key is make them go the way you want them to go. You want to turn your player into the teeth of the defense. On the wing you deny him the baseline and make him go into the middle, where hopefully a Dalembert or whomever, will be there to pick him up. Beno has improved in this area. He still has trouble fighting through picks at times, but he does give the effort.

Beno did a fine job the other night on Conley defensively, and seriously abused him on offense. Anyway, people spend too much time getting caught up in how a player plays man to man defense and don't spend enough time watching the rotations, which is where the real defense is located. When the rotations break down, thats when the trouble begins.

I don't disagree with your points. But having played a bit of basketball myself, I think you may undervalue the importance of staying in front of your man long enough to keep him from driving straight to the basket. Far too often, Beno let's his man fly right past him, requiring others to cover for him, which frees up someone else. It's like dominoes falling, and it makes your whole team look like lousy defenders. Same effect with a guard who's always going for the steal (letting his man drive for the basket as a result). At least Beno doesn't have that habit.

I agree that Beno has a lot to offer including, in some ways, defensively. But that one weakness is definitely a weakness, and one that I (as an opposing coach) would seek to exploit. Second to that would be his difficulty in fighting through screens. That said, I'm happy with Beno and his current role. I just hope we get good enough in a few years that his role will change to 3rd guard.

 

[nickmcclure]

Beno is often our best player. The offense runs so much smoother when he's on the court. His defense may be lacking but I feel his offense overcompensates. He's not the best PG in the league or anything but I think he's actually pretty underrated. As far as a future liability like the OP states maybe we'd want a better defensive PG in the future but I'd still keep Beno around as he plays well of the bench too. I really don't think our back court is losing us games this year. It's the inconsistency of the front court that needs to stop.

 

[kingsboi]

Beno is often our best player. The offense runs so much smoother when he's on the court. His defense may be lacking but I feel his offense overcompensates. He's not the best PG in the league or anything but I think he's actually pretty underrated. As far as a future liability like the OP states maybe we'd want a better defensive PG in the future but I'd still keep Beno around as he plays well of the bench too. I really don't think our back court is losing us games this year. It's the inconsistency of the front court that needs to stop.

I think that's the problem though. If Beno on most nights is your best and most consistent player you know you got some work to do because he is at best a off the bench type of player on a championship like team.

 

[nickmcclure]

I think that's the problem though. If Beno on most nights is your best and most consistent player you know you got some work to do because he is at best a off the bench type of player on a championship like team.

What I'm saying is, if he's one of our best and most consistent players, we have bigger problems elsewhere on the court.

 

[beb0p]

Looking at those numbers over 69 seasons of ball dominant guard pairings, and comparing it to Beno's numbers this year, is he actually that bad a fit? He would appear to be very much in the middle pack of the other guard" tradition, with only his sudden inability to hit a three point shot cl;early distinguishing him.

I think it's misleading to compare the stats of Beno (who is asked to score the ball) with a group of talented guards who were asked to suppress their offensive game for the good of the team. Ron Harper went from a 20 pt scorer to taking like 6 shots a game with the Bulls. Likewise, Derek Fisher and Mike Bibby can get down drop in 20 pts a game if they're given that role.

The fact is, most of the "other" guys were there for their defense, leadership, size, playmaking, and/or ability to consistently hit the threes. None of which Beno possess.

The question should have been: how many successful team pairs a slow, defenseless, shoot-first and can't spread the floor combo guard with a talent guard? I think only Chucky Atkins comes to mind from the list, and there's a reason the Lakers got rid of him after one season.

Beno is only one of many short-comings for the Kings, he may not be a problem but he's definitely not the solution. He may actually be an adequate short-term partner for Tyreke until a better one comes along. But makes no mistake about it, he is not and never will be the solution.

 

[bajaden]

I don't disagree with your points. But having played a bit of basketball myself, I think you may undervalue the importance of staying in front of your man long enough to keep him from driving straight to the basket. Far too often, Beno let's his man fly right past him, requiring others to cover for him, which frees up someone else. It's like dominoes falling, and it makes your whole team look like lousy defenders. Same effect with a guard who's always going for the steal (letting his man drive for the basket as a result). At least Beno doesn't have that habit.

I agree that Beno has a lot to offer including, in some ways, defensively. But that one weakness is definitely a weakness, and one that I (as an opposing coach) would seek to exploit. Second to that would be his difficulty in fighting through screens. That said, I'm happy with Beno and his current role. I just hope we get good enough in a few years that his role will change to 3rd guard.

Well I already noted Beno's difficulty in fighting through picks, and I'm not really disagreeing with you on his inability to stay in front of his man on a regular basis. Every player is only capable of playing up to his god given athletic ability. I think Beno makes an effort to do that. So whatever his limitations are, thats what were stuck with. My larger point, and it really wasn't directed necessarily at you, was that good team defense can go a long way toward disquising the weaknesses of individual players. In the case of the Kings, they still have a long way to go in that regard.

I will agree with you on this point though. Having a player with the athletic ability to stay in front of most of his opponets, makes life easier on the frontcourt.

 

[rainmaker]

Beno is a good fit, and has turned himself into a very solid pg. He leaves a lot to be desired on the defensive end sometimes, but that isn't completely uncommon with nba pg's. Potentially, down the road, throwing him out there with Tyreke, Donte, JT, and Cousins could work even on the defensive end, because the other 4 should all be above average nba defenders in a few years. But until the others guys realize their defensive potential, which will take a few years, a guy like Beno will stick out like a sore thumb. A lot of the breakdown begin with him, and at this point, there really isn't any help defense.

On the offensive end, Beno is so vital to everything we do because he's our only legit nba pg at the moment. It's a combination of Beno stepping his game up over the past few seasons, combined with being the only player on our roster who can fill that void.

Ideally, I agree with anyone who thinks he would be a great option as a 3rd guard on a playoff team. But this team at the moment has such a great need for someone who can set up an offense, hit an open jumper, run a pick and roll properly, get guys the ball where they are effective, that he has become indisposable. He really is the only guy on the team who appears to know how to run an nba offense.

Down the road, with either better defenders at the other 4 positions, or when our youth matures, along with Tyreke improving his play off the ball, I think Beno could be a successful starting pg on a playoff team. Without better off the ball players, and better team defenders, his defense will always be a huge problem.

But put him on the Celtics, Spurs, Magic, Lakers, or a team with that level of help defense, Beno all the sudden looks like a more complete player. So, part of what makes Beno so important to what we do is he's the only player on our roster who can run a team effectively, and while his defense clearly hurts us at times, he plays with some of the worst help defenders in the league. I still would like to acquire a better all around starting pg to put next to Tyreke, and bring Beno off the bench, but that isn't our biggest concern at the moment. It's the level of talent and experience surrounding him. Better players always help in hinding weaknesses. Parker/Nelson aren't that much better at defending than Beno is, but it goes largely unnoticed given their surroundings.

 

[ArcoKings]

I like Beno. He's a pro. I kind of feel sorry for him for being on such a lousy team. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants out but he continues trying to play hard for the good of the team.