So Do You Want Theus Back Now,....
- Thread starter Kingster
- Start date
kingsnation
All-Star
No.
bench_blob
Bench
Firing Reggie Theus was obviously a bonehead move. It sent the message to the players that the reason we suck is because the coach sucks, so players were thereby absolved of accountability for their pathetic play.
Also, Geoff Petrie wanted to bring back his buddy "Coachie Carrill", and Reggie was like "I don't want that old dude around, I've got Chuck Person, my defensive guru!!!" Nice thinking, Reggie.
Reggie was not a savior as a coach, but he had skills that Coach Natt clearly lacks, including an ability to maintain an upbeat nature, a firm resolve and commanding presence, that would earn the attention and semi-commitment from players. No one wants to play for an interim coach, and no one cares, respects or likes him enough for the effects to show up on the court.
Please make 2 or 3 trades, Geoff.
Also, Geoff Petrie wanted to bring back his buddy "Coachie Carrill", and Reggie was like "I don't want that old dude around, I've got Chuck Person, my defensive guru!!!" Nice thinking, Reggie.
Reggie was not a savior as a coach, but he had skills that Coach Natt clearly lacks, including an ability to maintain an upbeat nature, a firm resolve and commanding presence, that would earn the attention and semi-commitment from players. No one wants to play for an interim coach, and no one cares, respects or likes him enough for the effects to show up on the court.
Please make 2 or 3 trades, Geoff.
Showtime
Starter
I really don't think this is GP's fault, because I think this squad has been mismanaged. Bad offense with bad rotations, especially in regards to JT and Hawes. I honestly think this team could be better if used differently.
TheFifthMookie
Bench
I don't think keeping Theus would have made much difference, aside from smaller blowouts.
Watching this team right now is like watching the Warriors from 5-6 years ago. No personnel, no consistency, no direction. Reggie wasn't going to be the guy who gave us any of that.
Even if the team's not in contention, I think having an identity is important, all the good teams have an identity. Right now, our identity is: "try not to lose by 30".
Watching this team right now is like watching the Warriors from 5-6 years ago. No personnel, no consistency, no direction. Reggie wasn't going to be the guy who gave us any of that.
Even if the team's not in contention, I think having an identity is important, all the good teams have an identity. Right now, our identity is: "try not to lose by 30".
theclash4u5
Starter
No. Things weren't that much better under Theus, either. We were getting blown out under Theus, and we're still getting blown out under Natt. Theus took alot of the blame, but someone had to take the blame of how the season has been going...and 95% of the time, it's the coach.
TaxMan
Starter
Nope - I don't think it has made one difference in the W/L column. Further, we would be left with the continual management of Reggie's ego and the public humiliation (in the paper) he often bestowed on his players.
Reggie didn't work. Natt doesn't work either, but at least it's now perfectly clear this is a rebuild.
Reggie didn't work. Natt doesn't work either, but at least it's now perfectly clear this is a rebuild.
kennadog
Dog On It!
No, absolutely not.
I'm surprised they didn't let Theus coach until the end of the season, but I take that as an indication that something was really not right as far as management/ownership was concerned and Reggie needed to be gone. Poor Kenny was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Natt must've built up some really bad karma.
I'm surprised they didn't let Theus coach until the end of the season, but I take that as an indication that something was really not right as far as management/ownership was concerned and Reggie needed to be gone. Poor Kenny was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Natt must've built up some really bad karma.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Thats kind of big though. It may not seem like it but it is.
You expect our team to lose 9 out of 10 games. And lose by 15-20 pts at that. But to lose by 48? That is pathetic. We were a lot more competitive under Theus. And even though he had a big mouth, and wouldnt really get us any more wins then Natt, you get the feeling that he held players accountable for their efforts. He also played the kids. I remember a lot of tough losses in the early season, we'd stay close and then fade in the fourth. Thats the mark of young team in transition.
With Natt we stay close and then fade 5 minutes into the first quarter. Thats the mark of a terrible terrible coach and players who've lost the will to do what they're paid for.
The players show no heart whatsoever under Natt. There was some spunkyness and hussle under Theus. We still lost, but you get the impression that the players at least TRIED under him as a coach.
A lot of us fans (besides the bandwagon hold overs from the Webber era) can handle losing knowing that we're going to turn it around in a couple seasons. But to see 4 out of 5 starters not even TRY is what alienates fans. We'd have a quarter of garbage time a game under Theus. Natt gives us 3 quarters of garbage time and STILL rides the vets.
Natt honestly makes me miss Muss. The guy is that bad. I mean, I have to give him the benifit of the doubt on not playing Hawes as much when we're obviously shopping Miller. But still...All that smallball BS he trots out is inexcusable.
I can just imagine the meetings he has with GP
Natt (as excited as a puppy) : "I think I'm going to try some smallball boss! It worked great for the Warriors a couple seasons ago!"
Petrie (in a bored tone) : "Yes. Yeah, you do that...I stopped caring 4 years ago"
...Jeeze. Every post I make lately is a huge angry rant haha.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Firing Theus was the wrong move at the wrong time. Should have waited untill the offseason to let him go. The team was playing hard under theus, and that is something we might not see the rest of the year under Natt, unless something unforseen happens. Theus wasn't the problem, the roster is. Are there better options than Theus out there? Of course. But Theus didn't need to get canned 8 weeks into the season. The problem was that management thought this roster actually had a chance at making the playoffs. When the team didn't live up to the expectations theus was made the scapegoat. Now of course, the talent level on this roster is the main reason we suck, along with zero chemistry. But why the hell did Petrie and the Maloofs think that Natt would turn this mess around. Are you kidding me.
See, that's what's scary. All of us are talking "full rebuild". How the hell can we belive it when the management clearly doesn't? Canning the coach says only one thing "It's not the players, it's the system." This blatant disregard for common sense is what is driving the fan base away, not the losses.
TheFifthMookie
Bench
I'd agree that it's a little worse under Natt than it probably would have been under Theus.
However, getting rid of Theus early, and having it plainly out there that we have no coach or direction helps set the table for a new direction to come in, since they 'have to' be looking for someone even now. (please, please, please).
However, getting rid of Theus early, and having it plainly out there that we have no coach or direction helps set the table for a new direction to come in, since they 'have to' be looking for someone even now. (please, please, please).
This has been my thought as well - everyone and their cousin knows we will be looking for a coach at the end of the season. Keeping Reggie on board, especially if he kept some of these games close, might indicate we would be sticking with him. That, or there was a lot of other stuff behind the scenes we don't know about....
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Theus, was, and is, good riddance. He can now take that overstuffed ego back to college ball where he can prove his amazingness by bullying young kids. Natt's even greater incompetence is not going to retroactively make me pine for the good old days of a 6-18 coach who's mouth talked a bigger game than his coaching. There is no golden era sheen to put on Reggie's last days. He was fired for us getting repeatedly blown off the floor (or that was the tipper -- he was fired for being an *** and the blowout were just the excuse). We have merely continued to do so.
And this losing is damn good for us. Most of those who want to whine about that sort of statement have given up on it by this point, but it remains true. If having Natt here instead of Theus gets us a higher draft pick that is 100%, completely, a good thing. If falling out of the playoff hunt by January means that our hyper-cautious front office is jarred out of fantasyland and finally makes a major push to clear out our veteran contracts at the trade deadline, that is 100% a good thing. And you learn a lot about your players in this sort of mess too. What they are, and what they aren't. Who fights and who pouts. By the time this year is over there will be a lot fewer illusions about the guys we do keep, their talent and their heart, and we can build a better structure because of it. We have finally cratered, finally hit bottom. And until you do that you can't ever start climbing back up again.
And this losing is damn good for us. Most of those who want to whine about that sort of statement have given up on it by this point, but it remains true. If having Natt here instead of Theus gets us a higher draft pick that is 100%, completely, a good thing. If falling out of the playoff hunt by January means that our hyper-cautious front office is jarred out of fantasyland and finally makes a major push to clear out our veteran contracts at the trade deadline, that is 100% a good thing. And you learn a lot about your players in this sort of mess too. What they are, and what they aren't. Who fights and who pouts. By the time this year is over there will be a lot fewer illusions about the guys we do keep, their talent and their heart, and we can build a better structure because of it. We have finally cratered, finally hit bottom. And until you do that you can't ever start climbing back up again.
NoBonus
Starter
I want this quote framed and hung in my office! WOW! Brilliant post!
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Smaller blowouts sounds great compared to what we have now! 50 points? Give me a 20 point blowout any old day...
Kingster
Hall of Famer
So let me ask you this. If we get blown out by 50+ points in each of the next ten games are you going to still be saying that this is, "good for us"?
How about 60 points? At what point does the magnitude of the losses overwhelm the ping ball contest? I think there is such a point, and we're are very close to it.
bench_blob
Bench
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Coaches are over rated. I doubt they make more than 5 games in a season difference one way or another. You need talent on the floor and we don't have enough of it in the right proportions at the right positions. Any coach saddled with this mix is bound to lose... at least until the kids get experience and then only if further changes are made.
Yeah, but which five? That is the question.
A coach may only make a tangible difference in five or so games, but a great coach will make a difference in the five games that determine whether a team is in the lottery, or the playoffs, or the Finals.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Nope.
Reggie absolutely got the short end of the stick. Everyone is quick to forget he overachieved last season with 38 wins. Coaches are only as good as the players on the roster, and it wasn't Reggie's fault that Artest was traded, Kevin got hurt, and Beno turned into a gigantic head case.. I doubt Pop, Sloan or Phil Jackson would be having success with this particular roster. And if thats not enough, the Kings are paying an unprecedented 3 coaches at the same time (Muss, Reg, and Nat).
And Speaking of Muss, that 33 win team was not a playoff team and slightly underachieved because Bibby tried to play hurt the entire season and Brad showed up out of shape and uninterested. Muss' role wasn't that great.
Nothing hurts a young player more than continued uncertainty and inability to find an identity because a system constantly changes. Kevin has seen 4 coaches in 3 years.
Last thing. Speaking of Pop and Sloan, the Spurs won 20 games under Pop in 96/97 and in 97 drafted Tim Duncan. In 04/05 the Jazz won 26 games under sloan and drafted Deron Williams and signed Boozer. Sign a coach and worry about quality players.
And Speaking of Muss, that 33 win team was not a playoff team and slightly underachieved because Bibby tried to play hurt the entire season and Brad showed up out of shape and uninterested. Muss' role wasn't that great.
Nothing hurts a young player more than continued uncertainty and inability to find an identity because a system constantly changes. Kevin has seen 4 coaches in 3 years.
Last thing. Speaking of Pop and Sloan, the Spurs won 20 games under Pop in 96/97 and in 97 drafted Tim Duncan. In 04/05 the Jazz won 26 games under sloan and drafted Deron Williams and signed Boozer. Sign a coach and worry about quality players.
Kingzrool
Starter
I have never been in the "tank the season for a better draft pick" camp. However, at this point worrying about this or even next seasons win/loss record seems pointless to me. The extremity of those losses is not much more important. Decisions at this point need to made for the future. The Theus firing is consistant with this idea as he was more concerned with the record than youth developement. This is one thing that I commend the Maloofs for.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No point really. Its all largely irrelevant aside from the fans' distress. The losses will come, the team will get cleaned out of many of those causing them, or accepting them, a new team will be formed from the ashes of the old, a new coach will come in, and in general this just becomes a bad memory. Maybe even an inspiration point for the remaining players as in "I'm going to do whatever it takes to make sure THAT never happens again". Helps to figure out your remaining players too -- who fought, who laid down. In other words who to keep and who to jettison.
And I don't want to hear all that silly stuff about losing culture either. Boston had a "losing culture", one year later they won the title. Almost every top team in the league has had a "losing culture" for at least several years (another way of saying they lost, and lost badly). And then the worm turns, and they don't any longer. We had a "losing culture" for 15 years, and one season later were the darlings of the NBA.
So this is just take your medicine time for the Kings. I have openly mistrusted our front office's acumen and agenda for years now. I do not think they have gotten it. Which amazes and distresses me more than anything any player could do. But this has thrown stark light on the situation. No front office, no matter how confused, how dim, how passive, can ignore what is going on now. All the lies and the hedging and the marketing have been stripped away. So we should finally get our restart and that's hte best thing that could happen to us, and has been for several years.
If this continues next year, or if we by some miracle fail to clean out personnel, then I will start getting concerned. This is already a lost season, all that matters now is getting the things we need from it to prevent similar problems in the future. And if that involves a little short term pain, so be it. No pain no gain as they say.
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