He lost my respect when he missed last summer's training for vacation and came back out of shape and out of focus.
He lost my respect when he missed last summer's training for vacation and came back out of shape and out of focus.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
that was nonetheless the report that came out late in the season -- forgot who it was who reported it, but aparently Spencer has been our workout king. Which of course goes a long way to explaining how you win 17 gms and 25 gms back to back.
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ElRey
Starter
Well you knew your boy Spencer had this coming after he pissed the heck out of his coaches and fans by deciding he was going to sit out of the summer league. And then he comes in and have an absolutely horrible season...
kennadog
Dog On It!
To be fair, supposedly Hawes had family/personal reasons for missing summer camp last year. Since we don't know the nature of those "family reasons," I can't criticize them. I might have made the same decision.
What was irksome was the fact he didn't notify the proper people right away.
What was irksome was the fact he didn't notify the proper people right away.
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Nighthawk1
Starter
To be honest, Spence can come back at 250lbs of solid muscle, but unless his mentality changes he will still be soft. It's more a mindset then anything and all I can remember back to is an interview he did mid season about where he described the difference between Brockman and himself. He stated that wasn't his style of play, that's his mentality. For whatever reason it's in his head and he doesn't seem to want to change his style of play even though his style of play is a complete failure so far. Someone should hypnotize him.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
You just cannot change a player's mentality. He could look like Dwight Howard for all of his "working out," but if he insists on playing like he is five feet tall instead of 7, then he will forever be the player we have been watching the last 3 years. A player's mentality is incredibly hard to change, it takes them out of their comfort zone not to mention he lacks the desire to be a good center. It has been 3 years and I have grown tired of seeing him play at such a low level (I am on the east coast, I don't even watch half the games). As far as I am concerned, this upcoming season is his last shot to show something, anything (he might not even have a shot if we draft a center).
Arco Thunder
Bench
Well my "boy" just happens to be a Sacramento King. I'm not saying that he doesn't have room for improvement. I am just tired of seeing the level of disrespect toward this man, who is also a human being, but most of all a Sacramento King. Come on. You know that the criticism toward Hawes has been a little on the extreme side.
ElRey
Starter
You're right, he's a Sacramento King and that's why we care if he's going to work on his game and strength or not. I could have a rats *ss if he was another team. He set himself up for all this crap he's been getting when he decided to opt out of summer league, and those comments from him that he's not meant to play a certain style. Of course some of the comments about him are overboard. He's still young and everyone hopes that he can become the next Pau Gasol or even his younger brother Marc Gasol. But when you've been playing SOFT ( yes even when compared to European centers ) that just doesn't inspire confidence. He knows what he needs to do this offseason and he needs to do it, or else he'll be playing in europe soon. Next season will be do or die for him.
Arco Thunder
Bench
I've seen him play with fire, so I know he has it in him. He just needs a breakthrough, and hopefully it will happen this summer (like what happened to Beno last summer). Honestly, if there isn't a change, I'm ready to see him move on as well. Honestly.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I'm sorry, I'm a Spencer supporter, and trully believe in 3 years, he will be a quality starting center in this league. However, I won't wear blinders. You don't get brownie points at this level, for this amount of money, for being a stud in the weightroom, if it doesn't carry over to the court.
Is he a pro basketball player, or powerlifter? Maybe Spencer was incredibly impressive in the weight room last summer. I could care less. I'm sure Danny Fortson was incredibly impressive in the weightroom also. What I did see from Spencer, is zero improvement in post play, both on offense and defense. Zero improvement in his physicality. I'm not giving up on Spence in anyway. I think he'll bounce back from a poor year. But I'm not about to sit here and make excuses for his crappy play last year.
Is he a pro basketball player, or powerlifter? Maybe Spencer was incredibly impressive in the weight room last summer. I could care less. I'm sure Danny Fortson was incredibly impressive in the weightroom also. What I did see from Spencer, is zero improvement in post play, both on offense and defense. Zero improvement in his physicality. I'm not giving up on Spence in anyway. I think he'll bounce back from a poor year. But I'm not about to sit here and make excuses for his crappy play last year.
ElRey
Starter
the Beno situation would be perfect for Spencer. Bring in a top notch talent at his position so he has some competition and hence motivation. The problem with this season is that we came into the season with Spencer as our only true center. Spencer knew it and he acted/trained like he knew it! I would love Demarcus Cousins on our team. Cousins is already not known to be the nicest guy to be begin with. He'll probably try to punk Hawes everyday in practice from day 1.
=LarryLegend=
Starter
this is the feeling I get also. for some reason I see it like this:
Evan Turner
Derrick Favor
Wesley Johnson
Greg Monroe
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=LarryLegend=
Starter
If Geoff picked Monroe over Wall, I'd predict...
I was referring to us getting 2nd pick, I hope we get 1, but let's be real. our luck in the lotto the last 4 years at getting one isnt very good.
N0M0R3
Prospect
hahaha i don't comment alot but this is the best comment i've seen in this theadBMU (Brad Miller University - School of Big Men)
Getting a summer certificate in Big Softies, with a specialization in Contact Avoidance.
Relevant Courses
Pick and Pop - because you could get hurt down on the block.
3 Pointers - because 3 is worth more than 2.
Slipping Screens - Why stand there if someone is going to just run in to you?
Why Toughness is Overrated - A film class
During breaks, B52 takes them hunting, fishing, and takes the quads out on trails.
Sorry, but I had to...That's what you wanted anyways, right OP?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I've been fairly critical of Hawes from time to time. More so toward the end of this season, which was a disappointment in my opinion where Hawes is concerned. I'm willing to give him next season to elevate his game to a different level. Not that anyone cares what I'm willing to give him.
Hawes has become what I call a center of convience. By that I mean, he excells at times by accident, and not by hard work. I paid careful attention to the games where he rebounded well and also scored well. And in almost every instance, he had little or no competition in the post. In one game that he grabbed 12 rebounds, I went back and re-watched the game. At least 9 of the 12 rebounds he grabbed either bounced directly to him, or there was no one else under the basket except him. I'm not faulting him for that, but my point is that when he does have competition for rebounds, he suddenly ends up with 3 or 4 boards instead of 12. When Hawes does grab a rebound in traffic, he has the horrible habit of bringing the ball down to waist level and wa la, its gone. This happened time and time again last season. I saw the opposing center take the ball away from Hawes from behind when he still had it above his head.
His high scoring games are similar. If he's hitting his outside shot early on, it ususally leads to a pretty good scoring game. And he'll ride that shot all game. Oh he'll occasionally try a running hook and get a couple of follows, but most of his scoring comes from the outside. And when he's not hitting from the outside, he's pretty much worthless. Say what you want about Thompson, but he grabs plenty of rebounds in traffic. And sometimes he's the only King under the basket surrounded by three or four players from the opposition and he still comes down with the rebound. When have you seen Hawes do that. His reputation for being soft is well earned.
Here's the major difference between Hawes and Thompson. When Hawes game goes south, he just goes south with it. When Thompsons game goes south, he tries to do other things on the court to help the team. Like rebound, set picks and just all around hustle. Hawes just simply disappears. Hawes has a fiery personality, so I just don't get it. He seems to suffer defeat too easily.
I wonder just how much film Hawes watches? There are games where he appears to make no effort to deny the ball to his opponent. He constantly lets them set up way too close to the basket. Once again, say what you want about Thompson, but he works hard to deny the ball, and forces them to move away from the basket in order to get the ball. Now what happens after that still needs a lot of work. But he's at least battling out there. All the great players watch tons of film on their opponent. Larry Bird would hardly be considered a great athlete. He didn't have the greatest lateral movement. But he was smart. He knew where his opponent wanted to go before they made their move. He knew where they wanted to shoot from on the floor, and he denyed them that spot.
You don't have to be a great athlete to be a good defender. It helps, but if your smart and you study film you can still excell on defense. So I don't care if you spend every second of free time in the weight room. If you don't do the rest of the work, your not going to be sucessful. And this is where I think Hawes is failing. How many times does a player have to beat you baseline before you deny him the baseline? Just asking??
Hawes has become what I call a center of convience. By that I mean, he excells at times by accident, and not by hard work. I paid careful attention to the games where he rebounded well and also scored well. And in almost every instance, he had little or no competition in the post. In one game that he grabbed 12 rebounds, I went back and re-watched the game. At least 9 of the 12 rebounds he grabbed either bounced directly to him, or there was no one else under the basket except him. I'm not faulting him for that, but my point is that when he does have competition for rebounds, he suddenly ends up with 3 or 4 boards instead of 12. When Hawes does grab a rebound in traffic, he has the horrible habit of bringing the ball down to waist level and wa la, its gone. This happened time and time again last season. I saw the opposing center take the ball away from Hawes from behind when he still had it above his head.
His high scoring games are similar. If he's hitting his outside shot early on, it ususally leads to a pretty good scoring game. And he'll ride that shot all game. Oh he'll occasionally try a running hook and get a couple of follows, but most of his scoring comes from the outside. And when he's not hitting from the outside, he's pretty much worthless. Say what you want about Thompson, but he grabs plenty of rebounds in traffic. And sometimes he's the only King under the basket surrounded by three or four players from the opposition and he still comes down with the rebound. When have you seen Hawes do that. His reputation for being soft is well earned.
Here's the major difference between Hawes and Thompson. When Hawes game goes south, he just goes south with it. When Thompsons game goes south, he tries to do other things on the court to help the team. Like rebound, set picks and just all around hustle. Hawes just simply disappears. Hawes has a fiery personality, so I just don't get it. He seems to suffer defeat too easily.
I wonder just how much film Hawes watches? There are games where he appears to make no effort to deny the ball to his opponent. He constantly lets them set up way too close to the basket. Once again, say what you want about Thompson, but he works hard to deny the ball, and forces them to move away from the basket in order to get the ball. Now what happens after that still needs a lot of work. But he's at least battling out there. All the great players watch tons of film on their opponent. Larry Bird would hardly be considered a great athlete. He didn't have the greatest lateral movement. But he was smart. He knew where his opponent wanted to go before they made their move. He knew where they wanted to shoot from on the floor, and he denyed them that spot.
You don't have to be a great athlete to be a good defender. It helps, but if your smart and you study film you can still excell on defense. So I don't care if you spend every second of free time in the weight room. If you don't do the rest of the work, your not going to be sucessful. And this is where I think Hawes is failing. How many times does a player have to beat you baseline before you deny him the baseline? Just asking??
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rhythmless
Starter
Bravo @ baja. Put perfectly.
SCKingsfan
Bench
Arco Thunder
Bench
I have to say that it would be awesome to have Cousins on our team! Maybe you're right, ElRey.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
So you didn't see much of a difference after the Westphal-Hawes incident?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
In the immediate, yes! But it was typical Hawes. He has a couple of games in which he looks great. And then he'll follow it up with a couple where he falls off the face of the earth. Now I realize that he was injured for the last few games of the year. But I doubt it would have mattered. Turned out to be a blessing for Thompson who played very well for the last 17 games of the season.
As I said. If you pay careful attention to just Hawes while watching a game, he excells in games where he simply doesn't have much competition for rebounds and he's hitting his outside shot. If you watch him on defense for a while, and then watch Thompson for a while, you will see a distinct difference. Thompson is almost having a war out there trying to front his man or deny him position. Now he doesn't always succeed, and sometimes he ends fouling, but you can see the effort. Hawes by contrast hardly battles at all. He gives up ground too easily, and at times so easily that there's no time for help defense.
Look, I like Hawes. I wanted the Kings to draft him and I was thrilled when they did. But I've got to call a spade a spade. He has to put up more of a fight on a nightly basis. And its not just about getting stronger, its about his defensive attitude. I can understand that your offense goes south on you at times. I watched Webb go 2 for 22 one night. But he still rebounded and got assists. When things go wrong for Hawes, he just disappears. The team needs him to bust his butt whether he's scoring or not. If Hawes could block 2 shots a game and grab 10 boards a game, along with making some nice passes and setting picks, I wouldn't care if he only scored 8 pts a night. As long as I knew I could get that from him every damm night. What I want from him is consistancy!!!!!
Excellent.
Bullseye, especially on the difference between Hawes and Thompson's game. This is a very objective assessment of the difference between Hawes' and Thompson's game. I also happened to review some games and payed careful attention to our bigs and saw the same things.
FaStRmAn
Starter
keflanag, is it that he is too young to bulk up? Is it possible that he has another year or 2 to grow vertically and yet he can't bulk out horizontally. His needing to toughen up mentally and work on his defense are both byproducts of his lack of physical strength. Hawes is a Bean Pole. He was a beanpole the day they drafted him and he is exactly the same today as the day they drafted him. I am of the belief that Hawes has not grown physically stronger in the 3 years he has been with the team. I don't want to think that he is lazy, but he has been accused of that. I believe that is why skipping out on Summer League last season was a sign to the fans that he wasn't at all serious about getting into shape or being a better teammate. He was all about Spencer. AND he came into camp OUT of shape last year, which was a HUGE turnoff. That was why Sean May started the season last year, because his BFB was in better shape that Hawes was! Totally unacceptable for a 3 year veteran who acts like he has already made it in this league, yet doesn't seem to get the fact that he has NOT made it in the NBA. He should have attended summer camp last year and he better be in the best shape of his career this summer when the team gets back together. No more free passes for this kid. Suspend him or somehow get his attention to the fact that working out in the off season isn't voluntary!! It is a requirement for anyone seeking a job as a NBA Player to get into shape and improve parts of your game from season to season. If you dont do that you become stagnent and get moved to free up money for someone who IS serious about their career. Hawes has not been serious about his career to this point. You hear reports that he is working out but there is no physical evidence to bear this out. Hawes is Fragile and Wafer thin. He will never be a starting quality center in the NBA if he doesn't put on a minimum of 30 lbs of muscle upper and lower body. He gets pushed out of the lane by guards. He is weak. But if EVER there was a time for Hawes to come to life and turn his career around, it is this year. The PG just won rookie of the year, and there is a good chance that Evans could feed Hawes in the post to increase his scoring totals over last season. Hawes NEEDS that going into a contract year. He needs to transform both his body and his game to get a good contract. I don't think at this point that Hawes in going to get a contract from the Kings, but he might sign on somewhere else as a backup. Petrie rewards those that give outstanding effort with contracts and raises, but not to those players who fail to live up to the lower end expectations. Hawes has failed to live up to the lower end expectations, which is sad because the only thing that held Hawes back from being competitive is Hawes! Please understand, I have nothing against Hawes as a person, I just think he never grew up. He has had 3 years, 3 chances to really put his mark on the NBA and show the league what a center that can drain 3's can do, but he failed 3 times to bulk up so that he could play defense in the NBA and he failed miserably to bulk up all 3 years. He has never played any real defense while on the Kings. He is too weak to guard any other center in the league. He is outplayed by guards in the paint, and gets pushed around in the paint by small forwards and guards. That about says it all.
Every complaint I ever heard about Hawes has been for the most part valid due to his lack of strength. You can't play NBA Basketball in the paint and be weak. It is not possible. So, Hawes either thinks he knows better than all the other basketball minds and wont bulk up or he knowingly goes against all the advice of the Kings coaching staff and refuses to bulk up. Either way, this is his last year with the Kings because he has not proven he is an NBA player and has maintained a track record of under performing due to physical weakness. When the time comes to draw up a contract request, what is Hawes's agent going to point out in the positives column that Hawes does for the team? I can't think of any because he is a below average rebounder who only gets rebounds at 7' because he happens to be standing there. but a 5 rebound average for a Center is pathetic!
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keflanag, is it that he is too young to bulk up? Is it possible that he has another year or 2 to grow vertically and yet he can't bulk out horizontally. His needing to toughen up mentally and work on his defense are both byproducts of his lack of physical strength. Hawes is a Bean Pole. He was a beanpole the day they drafted him and he is exactly the same today as the day they drafted him. I am of the belief that Hawes has not grown physically stronger in the 3 years he has been with the team. I don't want to think that he is lazy, but he has been accused of that. I believe that is why skipping out on Summer League last season was a sign to the fans that he wasn't at all serious about getting into shape or being a better teammate. He was all about Spencer. AND he came into camp OUT of shape last year, which was a HUGE turnoff. That was why Sean May started the season last year, because his BFB was in better shape that Hawes was! Totally unacceptable for a 3 year veteran who acts like he has already made it in this league, yet doesn't seem to get the fact that he has NOT made it in the NBA. He should have attended summer camp last year and he better be in the best shape of his career this summer when the team gets back together. No more free passes for this kid. Suspend him or somehow get his attention to the fact that working out in the off season isn't voluntary!! It is a requirement for anyone seeking a job as a NBA Player to get into shape and improve parts of your game from season to season. If you dont do that you become stagnent and get moved to free up money for someone who IS serious about their career. Hawes has not been serious about his career to this point. You hear reports that he is working out but there is no physical evidence to bear this out. Hawes is Fragile and Wafer thin. He will never be a starting quality center in the NBA if he doesn't put on a minimum of 30 lbs of muscle upper and lower body. He gets pushed out of the lane by guards. He is weak. But if EVER there was a time for Hawes to come to life and turn his career around, it is this year. The PG just won rookie of the year, and there is a good chance that Evans could feed Hawes in the post to increase his scoring totals over last season. Hawes NEEDS that going into a contract year. He needs to transform both his body and his game to get a good contract. I don't think at this point that Hawes in going to get a contract from the Kings, but he might sign on somewhere else as a backup. Petrie rewards those that give outstanding effort with contracts and raises, but not to those players who fail to live up to the lower end expectations. Hawes has failed to live up to the lower end expectations, which is sad because the only thing that held Hawes back from being competitive is Hawes! Please understand, I have nothing against Hawes as a person, I just think he never grew up. He has 3 years, 3 chances to really put his mark on the NBA and show the league what a center that can drain 3's can do, but he failed 3 times to bulk up so that he could play defense in the NBA and he failed miserably to bulk up all 3 years. He has never played any real defense while on the Kings. He is too weak to guard any other center in the league. He is outplayed by guards in the paint, and gets pushed around in the paint by small forwards and guards. That about says it all.
Paragraphs are your friends...
FaStRmAn
Starter
keflanag, is it that he is too young to bulk up? Is it possible that he has another year or 2 to grow vertically and yet he can't bulk out horizontally. His needing to toughen up mentally and work on his defense are both byproducts of his lack of physical strength. Hawes is a Bean Pole. He was a beanpole the day they drafted him and he is exactly the same today as the day they drafted him. I am of the belief that Hawes has not grown physically stronger in the 3 years he has been with the team. I don't want to think that he is lazy, but he has been accused of that. I believe that is why skipping out on Summer League last season was a sign to the fans that he wasn't at all serious about getting into shape or being a better teammate. He was all about Spencer. AND he came into camp OUT of shape last year, which was a HUGE turnoff. That was why Sean May started the season last year, because his BFB was in better shape that Hawes was! Totally unacceptable for a 3 year veteran who acts like he has already made it in this league, yet doesn't seem to get the fact that he has NOT made it in the NBA. He should have attended summer camp last year and he better be in the best shape of his career this summer when the team gets back together. No more free passes for this kid. Suspend him or somehow get his attention to the fact that working out in the off season isn't voluntary!!
It is a requirement for anyone seeking a job as a NBA Player to get into shape and improve parts of your game from season to season. If you dont do that you become stagnent and get moved to free up money for someone who IS serious about their career. Hawes has not been serious about his career to this point. You hear reports that he is working out but there is no physical evidence to bear this out. Hawes is Fragile and Wafer thin. He will never be a starting quality center in the NBA if he doesn't put on a minimum of 30 lbs of muscle upper and lower body. He gets pushed out of the lane by guards. He is weak. But if EVER there was a time for Hawes to come to life and turn his career around, it is this year. The PG just won rookie of the year, and there is a good chance that Evans could feed Hawes in the post to increase his scoring totals over last season. Hawes NEEDS that going into a contract year. He needs to transform both his body and his game to get a good contract. I don't think at this point that Hawes in going to get a contract from the Kings, but he might sign on somewhere else as a backup. Petrie rewards those that give outstanding effort with contracts and raises, but not to those players who fail to live up to the lower end expectations. Hawes has failed to live up to the lower end expectations, which is sad because the only thing that held Hawes back from being competitive is Hawes! Please understand, I have nothing against Hawes as a person, I just think he never grew up. He has had 3 years, which amounts to 3 chances to really put his mark on the NBA and show the league what a center that can drain 3's can do, but he failed 3 times to bulk up so that he could play defense in the NBA and he failed miserably to bulk up all 3 years. He has never played any real defense while on the Kings. He is too weak to guard any other center in the league. He is outplayed by guards in the paint, and gets pushed around in the paint by small forwards and guards.
That about says it all.
Every complaint I ever heard about Hawes has been for the most part valid due to his lack of strength. You can't play NBA Basketball in the paint and be weak. It is not possible. So, Hawes either thinks he knows better than all the other basketball minds on the Kings and wont bulk up or he knowingly goes against all the advice of the Kings coaching staff gives him and refuses to bulk up. Either way, this is his last year with the Kings because he has not proven he is an NBA player and has maintained a track record of under performing due to physical weakness. When the time comes to draw up a contract request, what is Hawes's agent going to point out in the positives column that Hawes does for the team? I can't think of even ONE positive! He is a below average rebounder who only gets rebounds that a 7 footer automatically gets just because they are standing there. But a measly 5 rebound average for a Center is pathetic! If you cant play defense, you cant rebound, and you score less than the points you give up in the paint, you are a liability. Hawes is a liability on the basketball court. That will not get you a new contract at season's end. Even if Hawes comes out this year and really improves defensively, the coaching staff must be wary of Hawes and his lack of dedication to the team and lack of motivation the past three seasons to improve his game and help his team win. In fact I would be very surprised if Hawes were to get any kind of extension, even a 1 year contract for the following season. Hawes just hasn't earned anything like that in the 3 years he has played for the Kings. He really just isn't worth the trouble at this point. If anyone can point out what positives that Hawes brings to the team, please point them out because I have not seen them. His stats for his career do not bear out any improvement or potential that has not already been tapped. The time has come and past for defending Spencer. It would appear that he is another 7 foot stiff who made it into the NBA on size alone. The potential that the front office had hoped for has not and probably will never materialize. Hawes has been a total failure at the Center position for the Kings, and for as high a draft pick that he was (10th overall pick in a very weak big man draft), must be considered a BUST at this point in his career. He is getting 3 million this year to basically stand in the paint and run interference! If Hawes does somehow become a decent center 3 or 4 years from now, I seriously believe it will be on some other team. Hawes needs to go to a team that already has an inside presence (ie a dominant power forward) in order for him to be effective and limit his exposure on defense. Utah would be a good place for Spence, because they have good power forwards in Millsap and Boozer who can help lessen the defensive liability that Hawes causes. Maybe the Kings can work out a trade to get more draft picks for Spencer. However it works out, I don't think Spencer will be back after the 2010/11 season. The team holds a 4 million option for Spencer for the 2011/12 season and I can not see any reason WHY the team would exercise that option. He just does not fit what the Kings are doing right now and doesn't seem able to adapt to the game plan for the Kings. The Kings need an athletic Center who can defend the paint. The Kings have plenty of scoring power, so the center they need is a defensive minded one. Spencer is still young however and some team will give a 7 footer who is young a chance. There is no way to teach height. So some team will think it can get the most out of Hawes and take a small risk on him. But it wont be a 4 million dollar risk! And I seriously don't think that team will be the Kings. I believe they have seen enough. I know the fans have. Brad Miller 2.0 has been a failure.....
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rhythmless
Starter
NewArena
All-Star
Funny...sometimes i wonder if that's what Hawes wears under his jersey.
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