SL Kings vs. Lakers Game Thread
- Thread starter Dime Dropper
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Whats interesting is that it appears like he has MORE work to do to become a solid PF than he does to become a solid SF. He needs a shot and he needs to prove he can defend on the perimeter full time. As a PF? He has to find a post game. He has to be way more aggressive on the glass and on defense. He needs to somehow get bigger... a lot of little things like that.
I was somewhat expecting this game to prove something to me .. to prove he is a PF. It certainly didn't do that.
I was somewhat expecting this game to prove something to me .. to prove he is a PF. It certainly didn't do that.
Well...think you must be thinking of a different Cousins or a summer league. 
The one I watched had me calling up my brother after the first game to tell him I thought the Kings, our sad little Sacrmamento Kings, might have drafted themselves a revolutionary big man. And he started so strong that despite tiring badly (and apparently intentionally by Mario Elie -- the animosity with that coaching staff started early) he won Player of the Summer League/Month (whatever the award is) for it.
TRob has shown us talent here, but I don't think anybody is calling home to talk about what a stud we got right now. Think most of us are scratching our head trying to figure out what exactly he is first.
The one I watched had me calling up my brother after the first game to tell him I thought the Kings, our sad little Sacrmamento Kings, might have drafted themselves a revolutionary big man. And he started so strong that despite tiring badly (and apparently intentionally by Mario Elie -- the animosity with that coaching staff started early) he won Player of the Summer League/Month (whatever the award is) for it.TRob has shown us talent here, but I don't think anybody is calling home to talk about what a stud we got right now. Think most of us are scratching our head trying to figure out what exactly he is first.
I seriously can't fathom why anyone thinks he is a SF. He can handle the ball a little bit better than most rookie big men, but that is hardly a sufficient reason to consider him a SF. In fact, his ball-handling ability and quickness give him an advantage against slower PFs that is immediately erased once he matches up against SFs. And don't forget that Robinson was the best rebounder in college basketball, which is another strength that would be reduced if he is moved to SF.
Let's not dismiss his entire college career on the basis of two summer league games.
Let's not dismiss his entire college career on the basis of two summer league games.
You're failing to recognize that it goes both ways. While his quickness is negated, he also gains a strength advantage against most SF's. It's a tradeoff.
That said, you make some valid points and I don't completely disagree with what you say. As I mentioned in another thread, I think Robinson possesses several SF skills but certainly would need to develop and refine others. I think he's got the potential to be able to play both positions. However, I think he should be eased into the role of a SF and focus primarily at the 4. Once he improves and refines his skill set, he then could be played at the 3 in a reserved capacity or when a favorable matchup presents itself.
That said, you make some valid points and I don't completely disagree with what you say. As I mentioned in another thread, I think Robinson possesses several SF skills but certainly would need to develop and refine others. I think he's got the potential to be able to play both positions. However, I think he should be eased into the role of a SF and focus primarily at the 4. Once he improves and refines his skill set, he then could be played at the 3 in a reserved capacity or when a favorable matchup presents itself.
Robinson would be a disaster at the 3 in his rookie year. We have four guys on the Kings that are better 3s than he is right now. (Or is it five?) He might be able to guard 3s, but he won't cut it at the 3 offensively. He's going to back up Thompson, get some decent minutes off the bench, hustle, get rebounds, and hopefully play some D. His defense in the post was non-existent again tonight, however. I'd at least like to see him raise his hand up. Robinson is a project. He's going to be very good eventually, I believe. But not right now. His work ethic should make him a good player in a few years.
If the last two summer league games didn't happen, this discussion wouldn't exist either. We are just judging what we see on the court during each game. Go ahead and talk about the last few years of Kings ball. Other people can talk about his college game. In summer league game threads most people will discuss what they see on the court. You are saying during these last two games he has been playing the PF position?
Now see, that's a very odd thing. By rep he sometimes played this way in college too, and I remember people just a few weeks ago making the excuse okay maybe his college coaches were telling him not to challenge so he did not foul out (the same excuse btw people were making for why Jimmer did not defend in college). But now you are in summer league, you get TEN fouls, it could not possibly matter if you foul out, and you are still playing that way. This would appear by the way to be why such an athletic guy doesn't rack up many blocks or steals. And if he were a lazy player, or a player who did not seem to care, then ok, it would all fit. But you see him hustling around up top, his rep is as a worker etc., so its a strange behavior. Defensively on the interior he's been getting little out of his length or athleticism because he plays it flatfooted wih this hands down.
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Judging from what I'm reading and what I saw on the game VS bobcats, I think we might have just drafted another player in the mold of Landry - undersized PF who doesn't want to defend.
I don't know what we're going to do against the bigger frontline of the elite teams (Lakers' twin towers of Bynum and Gasol) if ever T-Rob becomes our main/starter PF. Compound this problem with the possibility of IT becoming our starter PG and I can almost see us never getting out of the bottom of standings.
Can somebody please start making threads about potential lottery players in next year's draft?
I don't know what we're going to do against the bigger frontline of the elite teams (Lakers' twin towers of Bynum and Gasol) if ever T-Rob becomes our main/starter PF. Compound this problem with the possibility of IT becoming our starter PG and I can almost see us never getting out of the bottom of standings.
Can somebody please start making threads about potential lottery players in next year's draft?
Judging from what I'm reading and what I saw on the game VS bobcats, I think we might have just drafted another player in the mold of Landry - undersized PF who doesn't want to defend.
I don't know what we're going to do against the bigger frontline of the elite teams (Lakers' twin towers of Bynum and Gasol) if ever T-Rob becomes our main/starter PF. Compound this problem with the possibility of IT becoming our starter PG and I can almost see us never getting out of the bottom of standings.
Can somebody please start making threads about potential lottery players in next year's draft?
I don't know what we're going to do against the bigger frontline of the elite teams (Lakers' twin towers of Bynum and Gasol) if ever T-Rob becomes our main/starter PF. Compound this problem with the possibility of IT becoming our starter PG and I can almost see us never getting out of the bottom of standings.
Can somebody please start making threads about potential lottery players in next year's draft?
Judging from what I'm reading and what I saw on the game VS bobcats, I think we might have just drafted another player in the mold of Landry - undersized PF who doesn't want to defend.
I don't know what we're going to do against the bigger frontline of the elite teams (Lakers' twin towers of Bynum and Gasol) if ever T-Rob becomes our main/starter PF. Compound this problem with the possibility of IT becoming our starter PG and I can almost see us never getting out of the bottom of standings.
Can somebody please start making threads about potential lottery players in next year's draft?
I don't know what we're going to do against the bigger frontline of the elite teams (Lakers' twin towers of Bynum and Gasol) if ever T-Rob becomes our main/starter PF. Compound this problem with the possibility of IT becoming our starter PG and I can almost see us never getting out of the bottom of standings.
Can somebody please start making threads about potential lottery players in next year's draft?
Right now I'd be damn happy if Jimmer Fredette could end up like JJ Redick. Back when we drafted him people were telling me that Jimmer was so so much better than JJ, but right now it isn't even close.
We only went to Trob twice in the post last night, i don't know whether it was the presence of Sacre that put him off but he played exclusively on the outside, he needs to throw a couple of pump fakes into his work down low too, because he got brutally rejected 3 or 4 times last night trying to dunk it.
I'm a bit miffed by his lack of presence inside but on the flip side I'm stunned at just how good he is driving from the top of the key and the wing, with either hand. If he develops a reliable mid range jumpshot I wouldn't be averse to seeing him at the 3, he got to the line whenever he wanted basically by driving.
I'm a bit miffed by his lack of presence inside but on the flip side I'm stunned at just how good he is driving from the top of the key and the wing, with either hand. If he develops a reliable mid range jumpshot I wouldn't be averse to seeing him at the 3, he got to the line whenever he wanted basically by driving.
All I can say is that the Lakers offense looked a lot better and organised than ours, simply by having a post presence and a proper point guard. The people who complain about Tyreke pounding the ball are going to hate watching Jimmer at the point.
At this point I'm really, really disappointed with Jimmer. It's going to be his second year in the league, he's a lottery pick and he looks like he's getting outplayed by random summer camp invitees.
At this point I'm really, really disappointed with Jimmer. It's going to be his second year in the league, he's a lottery pick and he looks like he's getting outplayed by random summer camp invitees.
Jimmer is not a PG and never will be a PG and this persistance by the Kings to make him into one is just delusional. He could play PG at a lower level but not in the NBA. His best bet in the NBA is as a JJ Reddick type shooter. It could work with us because Tyreke can handle and Jimmer can play off him and Cousins and if we bring back T-Will there is the extra ball handler that it can work with. It is no coincidence that Jimmer played at his best when T-Will was finding him in rythm!
Of course all this is dependent on Jimmer becoming a competent defender. If he can't at least hold his own against PGs and SGs defensively he will be making his living over in Europe!
Of course all this is dependent on Jimmer becoming a competent defender. If he can't at least hold his own against PGs and SGs defensively he will be making his living over in Europe!
I didn't really see the point of playing Jimmer off the ball, then having him come to mid court, collect the ball and dribble himself into trouble again.
There were three or four occasions where he just dribbled around in circles until he had to jack a shot.
Run him off a few screens, play some inside out, i can't think many jimmer open shots with decent spacing, it was all contested desperation drives or late in the shot clock threes. I know it's up to him to boss the game, but surely there are ways to help him.
There were three or four occasions where he just dribbled around in circles until he had to jack a shot.
Run him off a few screens, play some inside out, i can't think many jimmer open shots with decent spacing, it was all contested desperation drives or late in the shot clock threes. I know it's up to him to boss the game, but surely there are ways to help him.
Well I can only assume that the purpose of it was to allow Jimmer to have a go at playmaking while taking the pressure off of him having to dribble it up the court. I just don't get it with him, it's as if his ballhandling isn't even at a college standard. Even if he isn't a PG, you would think he'd be able to dribble the ball up as well as any guard would. He displayed no change of pace in his dribbling, never seemed to attack the rim etc.
One thing to note - in the post game interview Jimmer said he's been working on a lot of pick and roll, midrange + floater stuff. If that's all he's been working on then it's no surprise that he doesn't seem to have improved as a PG, because Whiteside and Robinson and the other summer league bigs didn't set any good screens for the guards. Still, I was hoping that against summer league competition he would look better than he has so far.
It also doesn't help that Robinson has been playing out on the perimeter a whole lot. You start the game with a PF who is standing at the 3 point line and a center (Hassan) who isn't going to score down low, together with an outside shooting PG who isn't fast enough or good enough of a ballhandler to beat his own defender to attack the rim. The result? Terrible spacing and very very poor offensive efficiency. Not impressed with the coaching by Bjax thus far.
One thing to note - in the post game interview Jimmer said he's been working on a lot of pick and roll, midrange + floater stuff. If that's all he's been working on then it's no surprise that he doesn't seem to have improved as a PG, because Whiteside and Robinson and the other summer league bigs didn't set any good screens for the guards. Still, I was hoping that against summer league competition he would look better than he has so far.
It also doesn't help that Robinson has been playing out on the perimeter a whole lot. You start the game with a PF who is standing at the 3 point line and a center (Hassan) who isn't going to score down low, together with an outside shooting PG who isn't fast enough or good enough of a ballhandler to beat his own defender to attack the rim. The result? Terrible spacing and very very poor offensive efficiency. Not impressed with the coaching by Bjax thus far.
Mac, actually, some of Whiteside's wandering about near the three point line seems to be in order to set a screen but the guys with the ball treat him like he has a communicable disease.
As a more general statement directed at no one in particuar, TRob is a mass of athleticism and it needs to be focused. He is not a polished product but thank goodness he has the energy that seems to be missing with many others. A 245 pound energizer bunny could create mayhem if he began to use his body more. He needs to learn to channel his energy. Not surprising for a guy in his second SL game. I think maybe some people were expecting a dominant performance like Cousins showed at SL. Let us remember that Cousins is something special. I don't want TRob to be a carbon copy of Cousins (well .... maybe I do) as if he has any kind of a game away from the rim, he will help Cousins and Tyreke by opening up the paint. We'll just have to wait for the real season to start to see what he does and how he fits with the team. Fortunately we have JT and there is no pressure to rush him into being a starter.
As a more general statement directed at no one in particuar, TRob is a mass of athleticism and it needs to be focused. He is not a polished product but thank goodness he has the energy that seems to be missing with many others. A 245 pound energizer bunny could create mayhem if he began to use his body more. He needs to learn to channel his energy. Not surprising for a guy in his second SL game. I think maybe some people were expecting a dominant performance like Cousins showed at SL. Let us remember that Cousins is something special. I don't want TRob to be a carbon copy of Cousins (well .... maybe I do) as if he has any kind of a game away from the rim, he will help Cousins and Tyreke by opening up the paint. We'll just have to wait for the real season to start to see what he does and how he fits with the team. Fortunately we have JT and there is no pressure to rush him into being a starter.