Skinner as #2 PF

[ParniValjak]

I prefer Skinner as the #2 PF ou of out current options.

That said, I would be far more comfortable with a single third big man PF/C 6'10+ type to be a 6th man and eat the majority of the big man minutes, and then have Brian as the 4th big man. He's the right type of player and of all the spare parts, be happiest to have him back, but don't think he has the impact I would like to have behind the all-softie starting frontcourt.

Word.

Traditionally, Adelman uses 8 or 9 player rotation (mainly 8). If you look at Adelman's history as a coach (with the Kings at least) he has always had players on the bench that could play multiple position. Generally we had Bobby (1/2), Hedo (3/4) and Pollard (4/5) eating up most minutes. I assume we can expect to see something similar this year.

I still think we need to get that tall PF/C who will take up majority of the back up minuted for both PF and C.

I like Skinner but I don't think he is that man. He is undersized for C. We just need a young Scott Pollard/Keon Clarke type player to be out primary front court back up.

 

[ParniValjak]

Washington is high on Songaila, he'd be the one to get Etan from Washington. Possibly with another player involved. Etan is a PF/C.

(my own addition):
Elson? Yes. Young, athletic, 7 footer. Can obviously block shots, would be gotten for cheap.

That my friend is a pipe dream just as KG to Kings is.

Washington REALLY likes Etan Thomas. They will NOT let him go for Songaila, no matter how much they like Darius. If they traded Etan then they would have only on elegit big man in their roation (Haywood). They like Songaila a lot, but they don't like him enough to trade Etan Thomas for him. Besides, in order to trade Songaila for Thomas, Darius would need to be signed at the MLE which is SEVERY overpaying for a player of his qualities.

As Brick said, they might do K. Thomas for E. Thomas but even that is a very long shot. Of all the big man that we might like, Etan Thomas is the one that is least likely to come our way.

As for Elson, he is 29, so I would hardly classify him as young.

 

[Kings113]

I'm not sure why Corliss has gotten so little support to stick around in this thread. For me, of the 3 Philly pieces and parts we got, I'd rather keep Corliss and use the other two to get that tall, athletic guy or something else to improve.

Corliss epitomizes the image and style that needs to become more of what defines the Kings. The BIG things that Corliss gives the Kings that they desparately need more of are: 1) a back-to-the-basket, post-up game, 2) a banger inside, and 3) sheer toughness. The recent trades have pushed us in some of these directions, true, but we need oh-so much more.

I would love for our new team to be DEFINED by hustle and toughness, and then let the chips fall where they may with wins and losses. Corliss, as a role player, would contribute that new M.O.

Agreed. I'd be perfectly fine if he stayed around. Obviously, he'd be better for us with a full camp and season too. But, if he can be used to get a solid/good big or young/energy/versatlie/defensive type-SF, do it (James Jones/Harpring). I wouldn't mind seeing Barnes come in for cheap if Corliss stays around too. Since he could be signed for cheap, and he's made it known he'd just love to play for us the most. I think that's what he was saying anyways.

 

[Kings113]

That my friend is a pipe dream just as KG to Kings is.

Washington REALLY likes Etan Thomas. They will NOT let him go for Songaila, no matter how much they like Darius. If they traded Etan then they would have only on elegit big man in their roation (Haywood). They like Songaila a lot, but they don't like him enough to trade Etan Thomas for him. Besides, in order to trade Songaila for Thomas, Darius would need to be signed at the MLE which is SEVERY overpaying for a player of his qualities.

As Brick said, they might do K. Thomas for E. Thomas but even that is a very long shot. Of all the big man that we might like, Etan Thomas is the one that is least likely to come our way.

As for Elson, he is 29, so I would hardly classify him as young.

Yeah, the 2 NBA seasons fooled me on Elson, forgot he was drafted in 1999.

Well, I wasn't sure on what we'd have to do for a S/T with Darius also. I know they really like Etan.

Be great if we could get him though.

KT might work, yeah. I wouldn't say Etan coming to Kings is unrealistic, especially in comparision to KG coming here.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm not sure why Corliss has gotten so little support to stick around in this thread. For me, of the 3 Philly pieces and parts we got, I'd rather keep Corliss and use the other two to get that tall, athletic guy or something else to improve.

Corliss epitomizes the image and style that needs to become more of what defines the Kings. The BIG things that Corliss gives the Kings that they desparately need more of are: 1) a back-to-the-basket, post-up game, 2) a banger inside, and 3) sheer toughness. The recent trades have pushed us in some of these directions, true, but we need oh-so much more.

I would love for our new team to be DEFINED by hustle and toughness, and then let the chips fall where they may with wins and losses. Corliss, as a role player, would contribute that new M.O.

He's tough but just an awkward fit at any position and has major defensive problems. He was useful to Detroit a few years back precisely because they lacked scoring, and so when Corliss came in they could feed him constantly and so take advantage of his offense to such a degree that the defensive issues were offset. But he lost time as Detroit got more serious and was eventually dumped for he garbage that was a 38yr old Derrick Coleman of all people. And as a low minute backup on THIS team, where its hard to see him ever being the primary option in any lineup...no. Not only not very useful, but almost actively in the way. We really really REALLY don't need anymore undersized tweener forwards. I really don't see much reason to keep Corliss at this point beyond sentiment left over from his old Kings days. But those days are long gone, and this is a different team with different needs. Defense and athleticism being primary ones.

 

[1kingzfan]

Corliss certainly does not NEED to be a primary ANYTHING on our team. NO backup will be the primary anything on our team.

Corliss's stats in Detroit's championship season were almost identical to the ones he put up in a Kings' uniform last year. He filled a role for us last season and can fill a similar role in his typical reduced minutes of 20 or less per game. Corliss represents a diversification on offense and toughness on defense unmatched by anyone we currently have (based on how they played most recently anyway). Clearly useful, clearly NOT in the way. Sentiment has nothing to do with it.

If you don't want tweeners or less than stellar defenders, well we're stuck with three of them from the Webber trade. We will have to live with one or two for another season...hopefully not three. While defense and athleticism are important, hustle and toughness and ability to score down low are attributes on the list of desparate needs, too, for if they weren't, you wouldn't see anyone here wanting Darius or Matt back (hustle and toughness are important, and neither are really that athletic or above average defensively).

Very few players have all the "slices of the pie".

 

[Kings113]

I think Skinner or Corliss will be the one most likely to stay out of the three. KT I definitely think is gone. I think there won't be two of them on the roster by October.

 

[Bricklayer]

Corliss certainly does not NEED to be a primary ANYTHING on our team. NO backup will be the primary anything on our team.

Corliss's stats in Detroit's championship season were almost identical to the ones he put up in a Kings' uniform last year. He filled a role for us last season and can fill a similar role in his typical reduced minutes of 20 or less per game. Corliss represents a diversification on offense and toughness on defense unmatched by anyone we currently have (based on how they played most recently anyway). Clearly useful, clearly NOT in the way. Sentiment has nothing to do with it.

If you don't want tweeners or less than stellar defenders, well we're stuck with three of them from the Webber trade. We will have to live with one or two for another season...hopefully not three. While defense and athleticism are important, hustle and toughness and ability to score down low are attributes on the list of desparate needs, too, for if they weren't, you wouldn't see anyone here wanting Darius or Matt back (hustle and toughness are important, and neither are really that athletic or above average defensively).

Very few players have all the "slices of the pie".

Just some random points:
1) The point about Corliss was this -- ona team with no scoring, where he can come in the game, immediately become the #1 option, get fed a lot, and score prolifically, he has a use. But on OUR team, where all the shots and offense is pretty much taken care of, he is MUCH less useful. People keep on wanting to have 12 scorers, but that doesn't help because there aren't shots for 12 scorers. What we need is guys filling out the roster who play well WITHOUT the ball. Who can contribute without taking a shot. because the shots just aren't there. And that's not Corliss. If he's not scoring, he's not likely to be helping.
2) Bonzi and SAR have largely addressed the post offense deficiency.
3) Skinner is not a tweener -- he's a legit PF. He's only a tweener if Rick makes him one by playing him 4/5, and even then 4/5 tweeners are actually kind of valubale. I think tweener as a denigration normally refer to 4/3s who straddle the divide there between a skill position, and a banging one, and normally don't have the traits to really fulfill either role (or 1/2s who straddle the divide between passers/setup guys and shooting).
4) The Darius thing is also sentiment -- he does not fit the needs of the team. Matt on the other hand does. Classic roleplayer's game with some skill as well. Good rebounder, pretty good defender. Doesn't need to score to help. Good hustle guy who nobody can take advantage of. Frankly would rather have Matt Barnes as a backup SF given the team makeup than Corliss Williamson.

 

[Mad D]

Word.

Traditionally, Adelman uses 8 or 9 player rotation (mainly 8). If you look at Adelman's history as a coach (wit/h the Kings at least) he has always had players on the bench that could play multiple position. Generally we had Bobby (1/2), Hedo (3/4) and Pollard (4/5) eating up most minutes. I assume we can expect to see something similar this year.

As of now it might look like this:
Bibby/Hart
Wells/Hart
Stojakovic/Thomas/Wells
Rahim/Thomas/Skinner
Miller/Skinner

 

[1kingzfan]

2) Bonzi and SAR have largely addressed the post offense deficiency.
3) Skinner is not a tweener -- he's a legit PF.

2) is a solid point, but I' much rather have 3 of these guys outta 12 than 2. Wouldn't you? Corliss is NOT a scorer but rather represents a player the Kings can use to keep defenses honest because he is an inside threat.

3) is not right. Skinner cannot effectively guard any tall PF, except the ones that play within 8 feet of the basket, like he does on the other end (yet has no inside game where he can create his own shot).

 

[Kings113]

Just some random points:
1) The point about Corliss was this -- ona team with no scoring, where he can come in the game, immediately become the #1 option, get fed a lot, and score prolifically, he has a use. But on OUR team, where all the shots and offense is pretty much taken care of, he is MUCH less useful. People keep on wanting to have 12 scorers, but that doesn't help because there aren't shots for 12 scorers. What we need is guys filling out the roster who play well WITHOUT the ball. Who can contribute without taking a shot. because the shots just aren't there. And that's not Corliss. If he's not scoring, he's not likely to be helping.
2) Bonzi and SAR have largely addressed the post offense deficiency.
3) Skinner is not a tweener -- he's a legit PF. He's only a tweener if Rick makes him one by playing him 4/5, and even then 4/5 tweeners are actually kind of valubale. I think tweener as a denigration normally refer to 4/3s who straddle the divide there between a skill position, and a banging one, and normally don't have the traits to really fulfill either role (or 1/2s who straddle the divide between passers/setup guys and shooting).
4) The Darius thing is also sentiment -- he does not fit the needs of the team. Matt on the other hand does. Classic roleplayer's game with some skill as well. Good rebounder, pretty good defender. Doesn't need to score to help. Good hustle guy who nobody can take advantage of. Frankly would rather have Matt Barnes as a backup SF given the team makeup than Corliss Williamson.

I'm with you on those.

 

[ParniValjak]

As of now it might look like this:
Bibby/Hart
Wells/Hart
Stojakovic/Thomas/Wells
Rahim/Thomas/Skinner
Miller/Skinner

As things stand right now those are the roations. However, I am not entirely comfortable with Skinner as our main back up at C. I would like us to get a legit 6'11 or taller player to fill that role. Skinner is the same height as SAR. We need some size.

I like Skinner as therole player but not as a primary back up.

 

[SacTownKid]

Did something happen to Corliss since I last checked the board?

I think people overlook the fact that Corliss is a very nice player to have coming off your bench.

 

[SacTownKid]

That my friend is a pipe dream just as KG to Kings is.

Washington REALLY likes Etan Thomas. They will NOT let him go for Songaila, no matter how much they like Darius. If they traded Etan then they would have only on elegit big man in their roation (Haywood). They like Songaila a lot, but they don't like him enough to trade Etan Thomas for him. Besides, in order to trade Songaila for Thomas, Darius would need to be signed at the MLE which is SEVERY overpaying for a player of his qualities.

As Brick said, they might do K. Thomas for E. Thomas but even that is a very long shot. Of all the big man that we might like, Etan Thomas is the one that is least likely to come our way.

As for Elson, he is 29, so I would hardly classify him as young.

Actually, I hear that Eddie Jordan said that they "don't need big men" and are looking for players to fit into their system, which is our system too. They are desperate for a PF that can shoot the jumper. Thats why they have interest in Darius. Etan could be had for sure.

 

[Kings113]

Actually, I hear that Eddie Jordan said that they "don't need big men" and are looking for players to fit into their system, which is our system too. They are desperate for a PF that can shoot the jumper. Thats why they have interest in Darius. Etan could be had for sure.

I figured with their interest in Darius, Sweet.

 

[Bricklayer]

Actually, I hear that Eddie Jordan said that they "don't need big men" and are looking for players to fit into their system, which is our system too. They are desperate for a PF that can shoot the jumper. Thats why they have interest in Darius. Etan could be had for sure.

I suspect he probably meant we don't need any MORE big men, unless he's a bigger fool than I used to consider him to be. The problem with trying to get an Etan Thomas from them is that as of right now, they only have two frontline bigs who can play center -- Haywood and E. Thomas. Only two shotblockers, reboudners, true bigs. They do have Ruffin, but he's a very marginal player. So if we try to trade for Etan, we are basically asking them to trade us one of their only two big men. I MIGHT be able to see that for Kenny. If I squint hard. We can argue that Kenny is a good enough starting PF in the East (although getting less true as the East begins to load up on the J. O'Neals, Webbers, Wallaces, Okafors, Howards etc.), and that therefore they are trading a backup for a starter. But there's just no way we can get him for Darius. They like Etan, and they NEED Etan unless we can provide a significant talent upgrade. On many teams, those pesky little details like rebounding and shotblocking are considered just as essential as shooting.

 

[Kings113]

I suspect he probably meant we don't need any MORE big men, unless he's a bigger fool than I used to consider him to be. The problem with trying to get an Etan Thomas from them is that as of right now, they only have two frontline bigs who can play center -- Haywood and E. Thomas. Only two shotblockers, reboudners, true bigs. They do have Ruffin, but he's a very marginal player. So if we try to trade for Etan, we are basically asking them to trade us one of their only two big men. I MIGHT be able to see that for Kenny. If I squint hard. We can argue that Kenny is a good enough starting PF in the East (although getting less true as the East begins to load up on the J. O'Neals, Webbers, Wallaces, Okafors, Howards etc.), and that therefore they are trading a backup for a starter. But there's just no way we can get him for Darius. They like Etan, and they NEED Etan unless we can provide a significant talent upgrade. On many teams, those pesky little details like rebounding and shotblocking are considered just as essential as shooting.

They got Blatche (I think is gonna be huge in a few years), who I think is gonna have a pretty good rookie year, and have Ramos too.

 

[Bricklayer]

They got Blatche (I think is gonna be huge in a few years), who I think is gonna have a pretty good rookie year, and have Ramos too.

But would they actually put their frontcourt this season into the unsteady hands of a high schooler? In particular after getting burned with Kwame?

Love to see to happen -- we could desperately use a guy with Etan's attitude and focus. But its a stretch.

 

[Kings113]

Heh, probably not, but I was just jokingly pointing it out.

 

[ParniValjak]

I suspect he probably meant we don't need any MORE big men, unless he's a bigger fool than I used to consider him to be. The problem with trying to get an Etan Thomas from them is that as of right now, they only have two frontline bigs who can play center -- Haywood and E. Thomas. Only two shotblockers, reboudners, true bigs. They do have Ruffin, but he's a very marginal player. So if we try to trade for Etan, we are basically asking them to trade us one of their only two big men. I MIGHT be able to see that for Kenny. If I squint hard. We can argue that Kenny is a good enough starting PF in the East (although getting less true as the East begins to load up on the J. O'Neals, Webbers, Wallaces, Okafors, Howards etc.), and that therefore they are trading a backup for a starter. But there's just no way we can get him for Darius. They like Etan, and they NEED Etan unless we can provide a significant talent upgrade. On many teams, those pesky little details like rebounding and shotblocking are considered just as essential as shooting.

That has been my argument all along.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Agreed.

I think KT is gone now too, soon.

Nope, I think its Corliss is a gonner, and not K-9, Kenny is worth more to this team by coming off the bench and being possibly the best 6th man in the NBA, than what we could get for him in trade value. We should package Corliss(not that he has ALOT of trade value, but he is decent bench player) with a draft pick for a decent back up big man...someone like a Reggie Evans, maybe in a sign and trade.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

in all fairness i think he did average 10 points a game this year. he's not a complete bum. i can't call him scorliss corliss anymore

Yes, but I just cant see him ever fitting to the motion/cutting offense that the Kings have. It didnt really fit him before when he was here(well, pre-98' I guess it did), but it didnt fit him then, and I cant see it fitting his style of play, nor ours, anymore.

 

[Kings113]

Nope, I think its Corliss is a gonner, and not K-9, Kenny is worth more to this team by coming off the bench and being possibly the best 6th man in the NBA, than what we could get for him in trade value. We should package Corliss(not that he has ALOT of trade value, but he is decent bench player) with a draft pick for a decent back up big man...someone like a Reggie Evans, maybe in a sign and trade.

KT with his contract and arrival of SAR? I don't know about that. His situation now spells he isn't likely to be here. He's not untradeable either.

Both I think will be gone. Wouldn't mind if they stayed, but we can get better and cheaper, and should.

Definitely agree on getting Reggie Evans, would have to be in a trade. Minnesota wanting him is so laughable.

 

[thesanityannex]

KT with his contract and arrival of SAR? I don't know about that. His situation now spells he isn't likely to be here. He's not untradeable either.

Both I think will be gone. Wouldn't mind if they stayed, but we can get better and cheaper, and should.

Definitely agree on getting Reggie Evans, would have to be in a trade. Minnesota wanting him is so laughable.

Although KT has a contract, he is too valuable to just bring in some scrubs with cheaper salaries. If, and a big IF, Thomas can accept a role off the bench, he would be an unbelievable sixth man.

 

[thesanityannex]

I tend to agree. IF (and this is a big IF) Kenny can take advantage of the move to the bench he COULD be a strong contender for 6th man of the year. As a PF he his quicker than most defenders espcialy the bench players he will see more of, and as a SF his size will no longer hurt him and he can muscle down mosd defenders, and pull down major boards, once again these advantages are espcialy pronounced against the back ups he will see. This really is an opertunity for him if he can view it that way.
HndsmlCelt

Just saw this posted and it pretty much says what I wanted, only in more detail.

 

[Kings113]

Although KT has a contract, he is too valuable to just bring in some scrubs with cheaper salaries. If, and a big IF, Thomas can accept a role off the bench, he would be an unbelievable sixth man.

Agreed. But who knows who/what we'd get for him...

 

[bigbadred00]

Kenny's stats offensively improved tremendously with the move from Philly to Sacto. Kenny I believe played excellent for us during his time in Sacto. I believe he's not exactly what we need at the 4 but in comparison to most backups in the league at the 4/3 he'd definitely be a handful and probally near the top of the class (McDyess I believe is better, Gooden won't be too bad if he's not traded, Wilcox ain't a slouch although he's an idiot, Horry and Fortson....not bad company).

 

[thesanityannex]

Agreed. But who knows who/what we'd get for him...

As long as its not like three scrubs.