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- Thread starter VF21
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Good point about how the way the Maloofs tend to not tell the whole truth. But their reputation as the most passionate and dedicated owners in the business is still there until they do something drastic. Hopefully the hiring of a guy like Whisenant doesn't turn out to be that. I agree with VF21 that Whisenant is not the guy! I still believe it's Ellie. But, I guess the Maloofs and Petrie see something I, and the rest of Sacramento don't
people are missing the point so much that it hurts to read. first off, adelman did not use the high-post princeton offense hardly at all post-peja trade. he adapted so well on the fly, and its a shame that people can't see how brilliantly he outcoached gregg popovich through three games in the first round (yeah, you know, the playoffs, the time when things actually matter).
secondly, its not about "passing judgement" on a coach before he arrives. i have made my mind well spoken in the two most active threads today, but not once have i actually passed judgement on whisenant as a coach. he is clearly doing wonderfully in the wnba, and that is where he should stay. to further this particular perspective, which many share, i will concede the need for a coaching change during the end of the adelman era in sacramento, even though i completely disagree. that said, if there is a need at head coach, then the best man for the job needs to fill that position. HOWEVER, NOT ONE PERSON IN EITHER OF THE THREADS DISCUSSING THIS TOPIC HAS GIVEN ME A REASON TO BELIEVE THAT JOHN WHISENANT IS THE MAN FOR THE JOB.
i flat out refuse to accept whisenant as the best option of the four or five coaching prospects available, because there is no prior nba experience to bring him any credibility. i don't know why this is so hard for anybody to understand. i would accept him as the eventual coach of the kings because i would have no other choice, but i don't think its unreasonable at all to believe that it is foolish to hire whisenant over elie, mussleman, or carlesimo. when somebody gives me a valid reason as to why i should believe that whisenant has what it takes to coach at the nba level--much less this fragmented kings team--then we'll move on and start talking about those things that really should be addressed this offseason.
secondly, its not about "passing judgement" on a coach before he arrives. i have made my mind well spoken in the two most active threads today, but not once have i actually passed judgement on whisenant as a coach. he is clearly doing wonderfully in the wnba, and that is where he should stay. to further this particular perspective, which many share, i will concede the need for a coaching change during the end of the adelman era in sacramento, even though i completely disagree. that said, if there is a need at head coach, then the best man for the job needs to fill that position. HOWEVER, NOT ONE PERSON IN EITHER OF THE THREADS DISCUSSING THIS TOPIC HAS GIVEN ME A REASON TO BELIEVE THAT JOHN WHISENANT IS THE MAN FOR THE JOB.
i flat out refuse to accept whisenant as the best option of the four or five coaching prospects available, because there is no prior nba experience to bring him any credibility. i don't know why this is so hard for anybody to understand. i would accept him as the eventual coach of the kings because i would have no other choice, but i don't think its unreasonable at all to believe that it is foolish to hire whisenant over elie, mussleman, or carlesimo. when somebody gives me a valid reason as to why i should believe that whisenant has what it takes to coach at the nba level--much less this fragmented kings team--then we'll move on and start talking about those things that really should be addressed this offseason.
im just wondering who the maloofs are trying to impress with all these moves? because they certaintly have alienated some of their fans... i could honestly see this happening:
WORST CASE SCENARIO:
1-whisenant is hired
2-petrie resigns due to the maloofs being more vocal
3-bonzi ISNT resigned or is S&T for lesser talent
WORST CASE SCENARIO:
1-whisenant is hired
2-petrie resigns due to the maloofs being more vocal
3-bonzi ISNT resigned or is S&T for lesser talent
You also have to admit that Webber is not the player he was 3 years ago, and will only continue to deteriorate. JJ doesn't even taste the floor with LA either. It's not like these guys are really making that much of a difference right now for their current teams. Webber didn't make the playoffs, JJ isn't playing in them anymore and averaged 1.3 pts. Granted he did go off in '03-'04 with 162 3-pts that season, but other than that...he hasn't done much since. Plus his absence wasn't that appearant that year because the Kings picked up Peeler who filled the void nicely off the bench and leading the league in 3-pt. shooting for most of the year.
Now we have KT who is a much more agile defender than Webber would be if we still had him...and we have one of the best rebounding guards this league. So, those moves werent as bonehead as we might think because the Kings are going to benefit now for moves that seemed to be bonehead decisions a couple years ago.
Now we have KT who is a much more agile defender than Webber would be if we still had him...and we have one of the best rebounding guards this league. So, those moves werent as bonehead as we might think because the Kings are going to benefit now for moves that seemed to be bonehead decisions a couple years ago.
And you're arguing again about Adelman being dismissed, which was never the main bone of contention for many of us. It wasn't that he was let go; it was how it was done. And that's also an alarming trend with the Maloofs.
Peja should NOT have heard about his trade by watching ESPN. Adelman should not have heard from Petrie after a phone call earlier in the day with the Maloofs.
And yes, Adelman's playoff history speaks for itself. He was able to get our Kings into the PLAYOFFS every single year, despite some pretty major changes, injuries at the most inopportune time, etc.
Why is this even about Adelman? We're debating whether or not we think someone with NO NBA experience whatsoever is the right choice to follow an NBA coach with over 700 wins. We're talking about how we feel about the idea of taking a successful WNBA coach away from his team just as they're starting to defend their championship. We're talking about the appearance of promoting a long-time family friend over candidates who certainly appear eminently more qualified.
Peja should NOT have heard about his trade by watching ESPN. Adelman should not have heard from Petrie after a phone call earlier in the day with the Maloofs.
And yes, Adelman's playoff history speaks for itself. He was able to get our Kings into the PLAYOFFS every single year, despite some pretty major changes, injuries at the most inopportune time, etc.
Why is this even about Adelman? We're debating whether or not we think someone with NO NBA experience whatsoever is the right choice to follow an NBA coach with over 700 wins. We're talking about how we feel about the idea of taking a successful WNBA coach away from his team just as they're starting to defend their championship. We're talking about the appearance of promoting a long-time family friend over candidates who certainly appear eminently more qualified.
I haven't posted much, if anything, about what I think about Adelman..
He has won over 700 games, but that doesn't mean anything without a ring. Adelman won battles, but never the war.
If Whisenant is the new coach, I won't trash the guy. You guys all got to remember, the Kings love to take risks. Recently, they took a risk on Bonzi and Artest, and look at the results. Sure, the Kings didn't turn into the old Kings, but they got improved. Maybe Whisenant is just the guy to put all these pieces together and turn this basketball squad into valid contenders (of course, with more moves that need to be made).
He has won over 700 games, but that doesn't mean anything without a ring. Adelman won battles, but never the war.
If Whisenant is the new coach, I won't trash the guy. You guys all got to remember, the Kings love to take risks. Recently, they took a risk on Bonzi and Artest, and look at the results. Sure, the Kings didn't turn into the old Kings, but they got improved. Maybe Whisenant is just the guy to put all these pieces together and turn this basketball squad into valid contenders (of course, with more moves that need to be made).
If your going to start singing the praises of Kenny over Weber rational thought and logic are no longer relevant and you might as well just say "It feels right " or "My truth" And comparing JJ today is hardly fair how many seaons ago did the Maloofs let him walk and what did they get to replace him wiht. If you wnat to be relevant you need to talk aobut what JJ did the next 2 seasons... but like I siad it does not seem that this is heading a rational direction.
I 100% AGREE with you on the Whisenant deal! I refuse to believe Whisenant is the guy! I hate the decision to even consider him! However I can understand the logic in it. I think Ellie is the guy! HE's been my favorite candidate ever since his name came up. It just seems to fit in my opinion.
Also, if you go back and watch the tape of the series with SA, the only game where the Kings didn't look to the high post first were Games 3 & 4. Oddly enough those were the games the Kings won. So, I'll concede Adelman outcoached Pop in those 2 games. But 2 games doesn't play down a legacy of being outcoached by the likes of Pop in games 1, 2, 5 and 6.
However, Pop made the adjustment in Game 5 to put Horry on Brad...thereby neutralizing him for the rest of the series. He also adjusted by sending double teams at Bonzi on the block. Adelman failed to adjust to the fact that Tony PArker was running wild and put a quicker guard on him. Mike Bibby gets run on the defensive end chasing Parker around screens and down the lane thereby causing his jumper to fall short when it matters! Quick long-armed gueards like KEvin MArtin or Francisco Garcia for just a few minutes would've thrown PArker's rythm off a little in my opinion, and maybe he doesn't go off in Game 6 the way he did! But, in my opinion, Adelman failed to adjust to that in Game 6 when he did so in Games 2, 3 and 4.
Also, the unwillingness to go to Shareef on the block and make Duncan play D. Shareef had a great Game 2, and made his first shot in Game 3. Then all of a sudden he makes 1 simple turnover...and doesn't touch the ball again! Rediculous!
Also, I laugh at the inconsistency of our opinion as fans toward the job Adelman did. Fans were ready to sacrifice him back in Dec. and Jan. All of a sudden, Artest shows up, the Kings start playing well, and Adelman's a God. I believe he did a good job in incorporating Artest into the mix so smoothly, and for that I give Adelman the credit. BUT, if the KMart layup doesn't fall at the buzzer in Game 3, we lose that game and POSSIBLY get swept by SA. How willing would we be to defend Adelman had that shot not fallen? That's a question I don't think many people think about.
I DON'T believe hiring the Monarch's coach is the answer just because he won a championship, but I do see the logic from the Maloof's perspective. Do I agree with it? Not necessariliy...but I can see the thought process!
Ellie should be the coach!
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I'll say it: I wish we had an owner like Dr. Jerry Buss. He spends when it's called for, but otherwise lets his basketball personnel do their job. He's every bit as passionate and glamourous as the Maloofs or Cuban, only without being obnoxious.
And when he does allow nepotism to intercede in his decision making, it involves coaches like Phil Jackson. That's the kind of nepotism I'd like to see around Sacramento.
Re: The Adelman Thing
I think people were disappointed in how it was handled, but figured that there were valid reasons. The idea that he was not personable enough, while slightly chicken****, is absolutely something that we all have to deal with in our workplace, and I don't think that Adelman had the record to back up that kind of aloofness. You can be aloof and GREAT, but you cannot be aloof and VERY GOOD. I think we assumed the next coach would exemplify what the Maloofs had said, and that the coaches, as with the roster, would reflect a youth movement. I don't think anyone anticipated a coach with a mountain of experience, but hiring a guy who's sole significant coaching position is the Monarchs seems quite bizarre. This type of hiring is precisely what does not work in the NBA. This is paramount to an owner becoming infatuated with a college coach and handing the reins over to a Pitino or Calipari. There is simply no track record of this working. There are plenty of examples of former players/assistants assuming the reins and succeeding. Even guys with very little playing experience, but bountiful assistant experience (Van Gundys, Frank), can be quite successful. Furthermore, this does not have the measured tones of a Petrie move. This is impetuous. It seriously raises the question of whether or not Petrie's resignation is pending. I'm a Cowboys fan. I've lived through an era where the owner thinks he is qualified to make personnel decisions w/out professional input, and it was abysmal. And Jerry Jones had played football at a high level and was a lifelong student of the game, in stark contrast to the Maloofs, who are truly not much more than fans. I fear it will get a lot worse before it gets better.
And when he does allow nepotism to intercede in his decision making, it involves coaches like Phil Jackson. That's the kind of nepotism I'd like to see around Sacramento.
Re: The Adelman Thing
I think people were disappointed in how it was handled, but figured that there were valid reasons. The idea that he was not personable enough, while slightly chicken****, is absolutely something that we all have to deal with in our workplace, and I don't think that Adelman had the record to back up that kind of aloofness. You can be aloof and GREAT, but you cannot be aloof and VERY GOOD. I think we assumed the next coach would exemplify what the Maloofs had said, and that the coaches, as with the roster, would reflect a youth movement. I don't think anyone anticipated a coach with a mountain of experience, but hiring a guy who's sole significant coaching position is the Monarchs seems quite bizarre. This type of hiring is precisely what does not work in the NBA. This is paramount to an owner becoming infatuated with a college coach and handing the reins over to a Pitino or Calipari. There is simply no track record of this working. There are plenty of examples of former players/assistants assuming the reins and succeeding. Even guys with very little playing experience, but bountiful assistant experience (Van Gundys, Frank), can be quite successful. Furthermore, this does not have the measured tones of a Petrie move. This is impetuous. It seriously raises the question of whether or not Petrie's resignation is pending. I'm a Cowboys fan. I've lived through an era where the owner thinks he is qualified to make personnel decisions w/out professional input, and it was abysmal. And Jerry Jones had played football at a high level and was a lifelong student of the game, in stark contrast to the Maloofs, who are truly not much more than fans. I fear it will get a lot worse before it gets better.
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OK...I'll stop repeating myself about the whole Adelman thing! I agree the way things went down wit Peja and Webber and Adelman was wrong...but they were essentially the right moves!
Adelman was great for his time and with the players Petrie put out there for him. But the nucleus at that time catered to the style of play he wanted to emphasize. That's not how the team is configured anymore. I will give credit to Adelman for doing a fine coaching job those years with the players we had...but his time is past and it's time for the organization to move on! I'm dropping that topic now!
Also...I'm not sure who AMANAPART is...but I'm not him.
Somebody please explain!
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why is everybody so shortsighted when it comes to "the ring"? one team every year wins it. the other 29 teams lose. is every one of those coaches a failure? no, certainly not. its ludicrous to maintain that line of thinking, because then you bring in a new coach every year you don't win the championship. look at the teams who have won in the last decade. there aren't a whole lot of coaches on that list.
now, i've got to ask you, as a kings fan, you are honestly willing to put the entire fate of the franchise in the hands of a man who has not a single game's worth of nba experience to his credit? you'd take this guy, whisenant, who hasn't won a damn thing in the nba, hasn't played in a single nba game, hasn't even sat on the bench wishing he could play in a single nba game, hasn't coached a single nba game in any capacity, over a guy like rick adelman, who has 700+ career wins to his credit, 8 playoff runs with the sacramento kings, as well as 5-stright 50+ win seasons? c'mon, use your head. even you adelman-haters are smarter than that.
now, i've got to ask you, as a kings fan, you are honestly willing to put the entire fate of the franchise in the hands of a man who has not a single game's worth of nba experience to his credit? you'd take this guy, whisenant, who hasn't won a damn thing in the nba, hasn't played in a single nba game, hasn't even sat on the bench wishing he could play in a single nba game, hasn't coached a single nba game in any capacity, over a guy like rick adelman, who has 700+ career wins to his credit, 8 playoff runs with the sacramento kings, as well as 5-stright 50+ win seasons? c'mon, use your head. even you adelman-haters are smarter than that.
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I think I am going to wait on this one. I got a friend that works for the Kings organization (not in a position to know much that's going on though regarding moves) and he has said he heard people around the office today saying it was Whis, than a couple hours ago he kinda snuck in on a convo near the fridge at a coffee station someone had mentioned that people will be suprised. That came from someone that was close to the "big dogs".
Not sure what this means, and he is unsure what it means, but take it for what you will.
Not sure what this means, and he is unsure what it means, but take it for what you will.
This is like a high school dating drama almost! Fox should've made a reality series about it. Having a different coaching candidate get kicked out of the "island" every day or something! Incredible how much we as fans hang on this decision! But don't feel bad...I HANG AND SNOOP JUST AS MUCH AS THE NEXT FAN!
startingtohurt said:
maybe its a practical joke..maybe they "leaked" that whisenant would be the next coach to throw people off and get people talking when in reality elie is gonna get the job
pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
Oh I don't know. My friend works in the office, but not in any type of job that he gets to hear anything coming directly into his ears. He is a sneaky SOB though, so I usually trust his dirtywork. Plus I have known him since we were both 6 years old and he is one of my best friends.
What struck him as weird was that he said that when a move happens that nobody in the office really knows anything about it. They find out at the same time we pretty much do. But today he said everyone was talking. That in itself seemed kind of weird. Usually there isn't ever any dirty work to do though because nobody knows a move is going to happen. It just happens w/o speculation. This time there has been a lot that has been "leaked". We chatted for about 20 minutes about the "what ifs" or "why woulds". He said that this does not feel like a "Petrie" move.
What struck him as weird was that he said that when a move happens that nobody in the office really knows anything about it. They find out at the same time we pretty much do. But today he said everyone was talking. That in itself seemed kind of weird. Usually there isn't ever any dirty work to do though because nobody knows a move is going to happen. It just happens w/o speculation. This time there has been a lot that has been "leaked". We chatted for about 20 minutes about the "what ifs" or "why woulds". He said that this does not feel like a "Petrie" move.
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