Scott Howard Cooper trade idea: Artest/KT for Odom

[bajaden]

That's a pretty good point, actually. I'm glad somebody brought that up. The owners might stand to save a few million with that deal, even if it doesn't help the team get better or net us any usable future prospects. It does make sense from that point of view, but we don't have penny-pinching owners do we? These guys will do anything to make this team competitive.

Here's the deal as I see it, and he beat me to part of what I was going to say. If you have the option of paying a player who is not going to play anyway, or not paying that player for one less year and the amount is around 7 million dollars. Which option do you think they're going to take? I can't possibly see any advantage of keeping a player for another year, just to keep him.

That aside. If the trade were to go through, and the Kings were to just let Odom walk, and they decided not to pick up the option on Sheldon Williams and Douby, the Kings would almost be 12 mil under the cap after next year. Now if they wait another year, then they're really under the cap. Somewhere between 21 and 24 million. But if there was someone out there next year, 12 million isn't chump change.

The point is, it would give them a little more flexability

 

[Lafayette]

Artest will be gone, we have a long way to go until camp starts so lets just hope that something gets done while everyone is in the wheeling and dealing mood... the Kings need to dump KT and Artest now and just maybe SAR but then again maybe that knees feeling better.

 

[ITSCdanimal]

Umm, no. Artest is the best, then Odom is in close second imo, then Diaw is a distant third. There's no question the guy is talented, but imo, like Odom, he lacks heart and determination. I actually think Diaw is a shorter version of Odom, while being slower and a slightly better passer

Ummmm - I disagree. Thanks for sharing your opinion though.

 

[beb0p]

Artest is not a bad rebounder, but doesn't compare to Odom in that department. Having Bynum back will help for sure.

All I was trying to say is that adding Artest doen't nessisarily turn them into a dynasty. He and Kobe will be fighting each other for the ball (not literally). The return of Bynum also brings up questions as he is only a post player and that is were Gasol is most effective. One of them will have to play the high post to make things work. I would think that Gasol is better suited for that, but don't recall if he has played it much or at all.

My point wasn't and I'm not here to argue with anyone how well Ron Ron fits on the Lakers. Remember, we don't have to convince LA that they want Ron Artest, they've decided that for themselves. I'll leave it to the Voodoo Master to work out the details.

 

[beb0p]

That is about the ultimate Rosy-Ron assessment of the scenario.

Because its a rsik for the Lakers too. Ron could just as easily squabble with Kobe, fight for the ball, poison the lockerroom, and then run off and leave them for nothing at the end of the year. I've mentioned before that its possible the single best thing we could do to scuttle a Lakers championship is to slip them a Ron Ron micky, and watch the wackiness ensue.

And in any case, the Lakers are irrelevant. We are all that matters. What's good for us = a good trade. By the time we ae ready to matter again, whatever consequences, good or bad, that might have resulted for the Lakers from an Artest trade will have just about run the course. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

We're past the point of needing to convince the Lakers that they should take a risk on Ron Artest. They've already made that decision. We all know Artest can go crazy, but the Lakers still want him; and I'm not here to second guess them. Maybe Ron Ron will destroy that team but that's irrelevant to the trade discussion. What's relevant is Artest's worth. The fact that a runner-up wants him means one thing and one thing only - they think he's the final piece. You may disagree, Brick; but that's what the Lakers are thinking.

Now, I'm not saying Artest is the only player who fits that final piece. They may have other guys in mind in addition to Artest. But nonetheless, the final piece of the a championship team is worth more than just taking some bad contract off our hands, imo. Where we differ, Brick, is you merely want a good trade, while I want the best trade.

Say you have a piece of land and let's say $500k is a good price, but maybe if the cards is played right, that land can be sold for $700k. You are ok with selling it for $500K, while I'm aiming for $700k. And that's fine. We have different approaches.

If all we get is K9 + Artest for Odumb. I'm fine with that. But that wouldn't be the trade I'd aim for. Aim for the best, settle for the good, that's how I approach things.

 

[beb0p]

You're wrong if you think the lakers fail for not taking that incredibly lopsided homer of a deal. You are seriously overrating Artest here, he's not that great. He'd only really help them defensively because whoever is replacing Lamar will be the 4th option, and Artest can't do anything as a 4th option, his offensive game is based on dominating the ball and that just won't happen in the triangle offense next to Kobe.

Again, I don't know why people are trying to argue with me how Artest fits on the Lakers. As if I'm the one who convince the Lakers that they go after Artest.

All I have to say is, if the report is true, the Lakers apparently disagree with you Vlade. I'm not saying you're wrong, but LA obviously think Artest can help them be a championship team.

 

[bajaden]

The Warriors have offered Turiaf a front loaded deal that looks to be worth around 5 mil in the first year. For some reason my gut tells me that if the Laker's don't match that offer, which is considerably more that the offer they put on the table. They might be able to convince themselves that the difference between Turiaf and his proposed salary, and the salary of K. Thomas aren't that far apart, considering the amount of playing time either would get.

That might be enough to make them bite on the deal. There appears to be enough smoke, that the Laker's interest can be accepted as fact. The stumbling point has to be, either K. Thomas contract, or Petrie, who is mum as usual, is fielding offers from other potential bidders.

 

[talltimbr]

I highly doubt the clippers are interested in Artest (for any of their young guys) now that Brand is gone.

I agree, but they may be interested in Odom & Douby. That is why I threw out the 3 way (King/Lakers/Clips) trade to ponder upon.

 

[CruzDude]

Forgetting everything else other than Odom comes in a Artest goes out, are the Kings better off with LO or not? I see Odom pluses as:

- much better rebounder
- better overall ball handler (assist/turnover ration around 2.0)
- faster in slashing to basket
- good defender (not great), blocks shots (really long arms)
- better team player
- in top 20 in the NBA in 21 off/def stats for regular season: top 10 in the league in: rebounds (10.6), double-doubles (44), triple doubles (3)
- is true 6-10 and 230, plays 3 and 4. At Clips some years back was a Point-Forward

Odom minuses IMO:
- not great FT shooter, around 65%-70% in season and worse in playoffs
- not very aggressive

RonRon on the other hand has these pluses that would be lost:
- much better defender
- much more aggressive
- slightly better scorer

RonRon's on court minuses are:
- league wise is only in top 20 in steals and minutes played.
- his career bests in rebounding are barely more than Odom's career AVERAGE in rebounding.
- tends to dribble too much and try to take over games without success
- bull-in-a-china-shop down low and tends not to pass out of dbl/triple teams

Overall ODOM leads ARTEST in all team and ball handling stats per game:
FG 46% to 42%,
REB 9.0 vs 5.1 (45% better) (3 of last 4 yrs Odom near 10.0 reb)
AST 4.4 vs 3.2 (25% better)
BLK 1.0 vs 0.6 (40% better)
TO 2.0 vs 2.3 (15% better)

RonRon of course has more steals and FT % about same.

Stats courtesy NBA.com

Bottom line. Does Odom's game fit with Kings roster?
Does Odom fit with our players?
Does Odom make the Kings better than RonRon would this year?

 

[ikillz0mbies]

I just want to say that I don't see why the Lakers wouldn't want Artest. They're biggest problem in the Finals and throughout the year is their 3 point defense, which they were atrocious in. I live in LA so I see Laker games ALL THE TIME. Artest can be their missing piece to a championship. So really, the Kings hold the cards here and I'm hoping they can end up with a deal that benefits them GREATLY.

 

[RonRonISGoneGone]

Joe Maloof on ESPN 710am with Mason & Ireland....

Ireland/Mason: The Lakers have made a trade request for Artest. Is it true?

Joe: Well you know they've called. They've called, and I think our GM Geoff has spoken to them (the Lakers) in the past regarding Ron. There alot of teams that really have an interest in him. And umm, right now with the Sacramento Kings he had a hell of a year last year. He averaged over 20 points a game and 4 or 5 assists. He's a great player you know. There's gonna be alot of interest in him.

Ireland/Mason: Are you, uh, a, a Lamar Odom fan?

Joe: Yeah, I like Lamar Odom, sure, he's terrific, a good ballplayer.

Ireland/Mason: How would he fit up there?

Joe: Well, that's not my decision. I'm not sure about that.

Ireland/Mason: Awww, Joe, you know you get to decide sooner or later. Cmon Joe, would you do it?

Joe: Lamar Odom is a great player, Artest is a good player. That's, that's as much as I can say right now.

Ireland/Mason: What's the likelihood that you guys will keep Artest for another year?

Joe: Well you know I love him as a player. Hey, I really do, he brings it every single night. Umm, You know I think if a few other teams had him this year during the playoffs it would have been a different situation. Noone could stop Paul Pierce but Artest gives him a run for his money. He really does. Ginobili, Artest can usually shut down Ginobili. Alot of players around the league understand how tenacious he is. He's great to have in your arsenal, he really is.

Ireland/Mason: We have Joe Maloof, a co owner of the Sacramento Kings. Hey Joe, circling back to the trade talk with the Lakers. Would you hesitate to do a deal with the Lakers because they're in your division? Or does that not make any difference?

Joe: Well, you would think twice about it of course. You know, they're such, they're a rival of ours of course. Not anymore, not lately, we haven't had the team to rival them. But, Umm, We have alot of respect for their organization. And, umm, the Buss family does a great job. But, umm, if this, if this is gonna help us improve our team, and we think this will get us closer to a title, we will do a trade with any team. It doesn't matter.

sounds like Artest for Odom!

 

[Telemachus]

Bottom line. Does Odom's game fit with Kings roster?
Does Odom fit with our players?
Does Odom make the Kings better than RonRon would this year?

I think the answer to those questions are: Yes.
Obviously, we won't know for sure unless we get to see it in person.

I think the #1 quality that Odom brings over Artest is his rebounding ability. That was the Kings' biggest weakness last season IMO. Better defensive rebounding improves overall team defense. I can't count how many times over the past few seasons I have watched the Kings play great team defense for 24 seconds only to give up an offensive rebound and put back. That = 50% shooting only because they didn't get the rebound.

Chuck Daly used to say that the first stat you should look for in a boxscore is rebounding. Most of the time it will tell you the final score without having to look.

 

[Entity]

So where does Odom play for us is he the SF with Moore and Miller at PF and C. Or is he the PF with Salmons at SF. I am sure you will see him at both. Just wondering where they start. What would this do for Thompson and Williams?

Since the Clips don't have a legit PF now maybe just maybe we can work out something With SAR going to them.

 

[bajaden]

So where does Odom play for us is he the SF with Moore and Miller at PF and C. Or is he the PF with Salmons at SF. I am sure you will see him at both. Just wondering where they start. What would this do for Thompson and Williams?

Since the Clips don't have a legit PF now maybe just maybe we can work out something With SAR going to them.

Its a good question. He has started at both positions. It might just depend on the matchup. My personal feeling is that he's better at the PF position because of his limitied outside shooting. The great thing about him is that he gives the Kings the versitility they really didn't have with Artest at the 4/5 position. What they lose with Artest, with his versitility at the 3/2 position they can make up much easier.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Again, I don't know why people are trying to argue with me how Artest fits on the Lakers. As if I'm the one who convince the Lakers that they go after Artest.

All I have to say is, if the report is true, the Lakers apparently disagree with you Vlade. I'm not saying you're wrong, but LA obviously think Artest can help them be a championship team.

Dude, you're the one who is arguing that Artest is the guy who'll get them championship and championship. Read the post I was responding to. The only thing this offer proves is that they like Artest more than Odom, it was your opinion that Artest is going to guarantee them a dynasty.

 

[beb0p]

Dude, you're the one who is arguing that Artest is the guy who'll get them championship and championship. Read the post I was responding to. The only thing this offer proves is that they like Artest more than Odom, it was your opinion that Artest is going to guarantee them a dynasty.

And why do you think they like Artest more than Odom?? Is it because they like his charming personality or is it because they think he can help them win a championship?

If you pick the later then you're arriving at the same conclusion I did. If you pick the former then have fun with the magic mushroom.

 

[Emma]

Have Fun With The Magic Mushroom.

Roger Wilco!!!

 

[CruzDude]

And why do you think they like Artest more than Odom?? Is it because they like his charming personality or is it because they think he can help them win a championship?

If you pick the later then you're arriving at the same conclusion I did. If you pick the former then have fun with the magic mushroom.

They have major superstar and major emerging BIG (if healthy) and as playoffs showed a major weakness on def and in being able to shut down an opposing 2-3-4. The triangle needs 2-3 major players to make it work.

The Kings approach the same end differently and have 3-4 young pieces and some vets that could get them to the promised land in 2-3 years if it all works out. Odom only helps for one year unless he has a breakout year (20/10) and gets re-signed for 3-4 yr at big bucks and they go to the championship. But if he is consistent and good he is gone end next year or by trading deadline.