Scott Howard Cooper trade idea: Artest/KT for Odom

FakeInjury · Jul 9, 2008

If we aquired LO, at 16mil. How easy do you think it will be to trade him to a contender by mid season, all the while aquiring young talent and picks? Not very easy.

Ron Artest at 7 million is a much easier contract to move, and his trade value is just as if not better than LO.

And why resign LO for 10mil a year, when he is worth 6?

carmichaeldave · Jul 10, 2008

I keep laughing at this stuff. I don't understand how two writers + all the smart people on this message board even entertain this idea.

I got this elsewhere, but its a great list:

Garnett: Wolves to Celtics
Allen: Sonics to Celtics
Iverson: Sixers to Nuggets
Marion: Suns to Heat
Webber: Kings to Sixers
Shaq: Lakers to Heat
Brand: Bulls to Clippers

Very, VERY rarely to you see a star-quality player traded within his own conference, much less within his own division, MUCH LESS TO A RIVAL (yes, i use the term "rival" loosely).

Gasol to the Lakers and O'Neal to the Raptors come to mind, but Chris Wallace of the Griz is part retarded, and Jermaine O'Neal is more contract than star at this point.

Someone will try and make the argument that Ron is not a "star" player, but he is. And when the Lakers are in the conversation, it is all but handing a title over to them. He puts them over the top.

It just amazes me that in most/all of these columns, or the internets, no one brings this stuff up.

Kill the rumor now.

PS: If it does happen, I think I owe Amick money.

nbrans · Jul 10, 2008

carmichaeldave said:

I keep laughing at this stuff. I don't understand how two writers + all the smart people on this message board even entertain this idea.

I got this elsewhere, but its a great list:

Garnett: Wolves to Celtics
Allen: Sonics to Celtics
Iverson: Sixers to Nuggets
Marion: Suns to Heat
Webber: Kings to Sixers
Shaq: Lakers to Heat
Brand: Bulls to Clippers

Very, VERY rarely to you see a star-quality player traded within his own conference, much less within his own division, MUCH LESS TO A RIVAL (yes, i use the term "rival" loosely).

Gasol to the Lakers and O'Neal to the Raptors come to mind, but Chris Wallace of the Griz is part retarded, and Jermaine O'Neal is more contract than star at this point.

Someone will try and make the argument that Ron is not a "star" player, but he is. And when the Lakers are in the conversation, it is all but handing a title over to them. He puts them over the top.

It just amazes me that in most/all of these columns, or the internets, no one brings this stuff up.

Kill the rumor now.

PS: If it does happen, I think I owe Amick money.

I agree that there's a stigma against inter-division trades it in the league, but I also think the stigma is extremely stupid. If the trade helps you, who in the heck cares who you're dealing with? A good trade is a good trade.

SacKings7 · Jul 10, 2008

FakeInjury said:

If you're gonna talk about baggage that players bring, that conversation starts with Ron Artest. I don't care if he relatively stayed outta trouble the past 2 years, the guy is closer than any other player to being kicked outta the league right now. And I hope your joking about that Darius Miles comment, because I'd prefer KT to Miles right now

LA King Fan II · Jul 10, 2008

From an out of towner who became a fan because of the Kings' style of play that has long since changed....

Lamar Odom is exactly what the team has lacked for what seems like forever. I'm not a fan of his heart and work ethic, but the brand of basketball will be infinitely more entertaining. His presence will make others better. It'd be a lot more fun to watch. Artest will play differently in LA. His style smothers the Kings and seems even oddly self-serving. He'll play better with the Lakers because they have the game's best player and arguably the best young center (if he heals) in the league. The Kings don't even have an A level player IMO, so of course Artest will thrive.

Who cares about the Lakers if the Kings provide a better product to watch.

Bibby_10 · Jul 10, 2008

Warhawk said:

And the thing is, they may have actually won had they had Artest instead of Odumb.

FakeInjury · Jul 10, 2008

Truthfully i like watching QB93. Every game its a toss up as to who will win. The kings swept the pistons last year, i was physically there. Would we have won that VERY close game against the pistons in Lamar Odom was players in stead of Artest? NO. The team would not be more entertaining, because RON ARTEST is the most entertaining part of the team. The baggage that comes along with Ron is not really baggage, its more like fun. The baggage that comes with odom is family oriented*, there is nothing this franchise or any franchise can do for him. That kind of baggage takes years to heal, whereas Ron can wake up one day and be the best player in the NBA. You cant say that about Odom.

Bibby_10 · Jul 10, 2008

In reality discussing this trade is pointless. The Lakers dont seem interested in taking on KT's contract and the Maloofs are not going to hand the Lakers a championship by trading LO for Artest straight up.

DocHolliday · Jul 10, 2008

carmichaeldave said:

It was reported this mornning on The Rise Guys that the L.A Lakers have allegedly contacted the Sacramento Kings to talk about an Artest for Odom trade. Reportedly the Kings have not responded yet, but the only way the Kings do this deal is Artest and KT for Odom.

I hope you have some money set aside, you may be paying Amick in the next few weeks.

Rockmeister · Jul 10, 2008

DocHolliday said:

I hope the Kings can trade for Artest, however, with Kenny in as part of the trade, I highly doubt the Lakers want his huge contract.

TaxMan · Jul 10, 2008

Rockmeister said:

Well, at this point, KT's contract is getting closer to being a valuable asset. As you saw with the trade to get Gasol to the Lakers, there is high value in having a big crappy contract that will come off the books at the end of the year. Now, KT's got two years left, but really that's only one year of the Lakers being hitched with a bummer of a contract. Next year it becomes a good trading chip.

Not sure what they're luxury tax situation looks like, but I would think if there's any team that might be willing to take on KTs salary, it could be the Lakers. Maybe its been discussed elsewhere in this thread, but I don't think the deal even works salary wise if its simply artest for odom.

Vlade4GM · Jul 10, 2008

The lakers trading for Artest wouldn't even help them. He would totally disrupt the flow of their offfense. He would help them defensively sure, but he'll totally flip off the triangle and do whatever the hell he wants. He won't get the touches he wants and he'll get pissed and blow up. This won't help the lakers, it'll be a sideways move at best.

DoDiGaG0 · Jul 10, 2008

eh

wouldn't do it just cuz it would make the Lakers really ,really, really, really good

Odom was a cancer @ the finals for them -- he has a realllly low basketball IQ and his game is sort of limited -- Im from LA, I can't stand the guy

It isn't such a bad trade if we can get rid of KT too -- but just say NO due to what it would make the Lakers

Vlade4GM · Jul 10, 2008

DoDiGaG0 said:

F the lakers! Who the hell cares what happens to them? It makes no difference to us, it won't effect us at all!

DocHolliday · Jul 10, 2008

DoDiGaG0 said:

His contract ends at the end of the year, end of story. If we make Artest's and KT's salary disappear together in one year, instead of Artest this year and KT after next year, then you do it.

Even if it was just Artest for Odom, which I don't think works out money wise, you do it, and get rid of an ACTUAL cancer in Artest. Odom may have stunk it up, but you've never heard of him doing or saying crazy things constantly. I could handle Odom for a year. And clear more off Ealier. THen at the end of the year we'd just have Brad's salary left if he's still here, and Sar's if he hasn't had to retire.

Then we sing glory glory hallelujah at the end of the 09/10 season.

Warhawk · Jul 10, 2008

DocHolliday said:

Nice.

bajaden · Jul 10, 2008

carmichaeldave said:

There appears to be truth to this rumor, although, I haven't been able to get a sniff of it in the LA Times. Its possible the Kings are using the rumor as leverage to get a better deal with another team.

However, just in case, I'll give you good interest rates Dave. Five year deal with the final year a team option.

bajaden · Jul 10, 2008

FakeInjury said:

Here's the deal Faker. Whether you agree or not, Petrie has in mind the type of team he wants to put on the floor. He has, as much as said so in some of the recent articles, even if indirectly.

Petrie likes teams that pass the basketball and he abhors players that stand and dribble the ball while eating up the shot clock. He dislikes one on one basketball, much less, as you put it, one on five basketball. Now you can disagree with his desires for the team, but he happens to be the GM and your not. So I suspect that Ron Ron is going Bye Bye.

I happen to agree with Petrie. Big surprise there, I know. But it is called a team. And the worst thing you can do on a team, is make your teammates lose intrest by not including them. Ron is a very good basketball player that simply doesn't fit on this team. He needs a very strong coach that can control him, if thats possible.

Seriously, does anyone think his act would fly very far with Don Nelson or Jerry Sloan, or even Pop's. Reggie's problem is that number one, he's a rookie coach and simply doesn't carry the weight any of the other coaches I mentioned. Number two, he treated Artest like a man, when he was acting like a child. My grandfather used to tell me, I'll treat you like a man when you start acting like a man. Yeah, I know, my grandfather probably couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag, and its a new world out there etc, etc.

Anyway, Reggie has a tough job to begin with, and Artest just makes it tougher. He doesn't need the extra stress nor does he need his attention diverted from the job at hand. So I beleive your shouting into the wind as they say. Its an exercise in futility.

ikillz0mbies · Jul 10, 2008

If Artest stays, hes not going to be the next time his contract is up. That's guaranteed. He already ran his mouth regretting not opting out, what makes anyone think he's going to be here in the long run. He's not. So get rid of the guy who regrets resigning with the team and made the locker room bitter. The Kings have tolerated Artest's mouth for quite too long now that it has become a distraction. Sure, people might find it entertaining cause he's always in the media, but it doesn't help the team. Get him out of here. Send him to LA for Odom who's a nice player. I honestly don't think there is a better offer than Odom anyway. If it's a chance to get rid of a fat contract like KT's and get rid of a team distraction, then do it. The Kings won't get a chance like that again.

LA King Fan II · Jul 10, 2008

As Brick mentioned somewhere it's not out of the question that KT could help the lakers some. Not going to Real GM or whatever but wonder if the following works in terms of equalizing the blow of Kenny T:

Walton
Odom

for

Artest
Thomas

Walton has disappointed, but he is still a useful player and may just well play better down the road than he is right now lassoed in the triangle. He will always be a good person in the Locker room and at the very least a good 7-10 guy his whole career.

LA King Fan II · Jul 10, 2008

I should say "7-10" means in terms of #7 guy on the roster (not stats).

DocHolliday · Jul 10, 2008

LA King Fan II said:

I don't really want the Kings to take any longer term contracts back than one year in this case. This isn't about getting better, it's about not losing much ground talent wise, while the contract is here, and ideally the contract isn't hear longer than this next season.

hrdboild · Jul 10, 2008

I hate this deal, and not just because I'm in the (extreme) minority that actually wants Artest to stay. Petrie never does anything I actually want him to do anyway, so it's understandable that Artest is gone after this season if he can't be traded. Whatever. But I don't see how this trade helps us.

1] Losing Kenny's contract is moot at this point because Geoff has already piled up enough two year contracts that we're still not going to have money until 2010 regardless.

2] Lamar Odom is maybe valuable as a trade asset, but with that contract who's going to take him? We'd have to take back more bad contracts most likely in any mid-season swap and that puts us back even further into salary cap hell. And it's debatable, especially when you factor in contracts, whether he's a better mid-season trade chip than Artest would be.

3] Assuming Lamar Odom does fit into this team and wants to stay, do we really want to pay him whatever he will want to stay (likely 10 million or more per year) one season before we're supposed to have cap space? If you do the math, at that point we'd be looking at mid-level talents again instead of superstars. So we'd basically be financially locked into a starting lineup featuring Kevin Martin, Beno Udrih, and Lamar Odom for the next 4-5 years. Is anyone honestly excited about that as the foundation?

I think it should also be noted that no trade for Artest or Odom's expiring deal is ever going to net us a high draft pick because the only teams trading for expiring players are contenders looking for their last piece. You're going to get a pick in the bottom of the first round which is not much more useful than the second round pick we got from Atlanta last year (which we used on a guy nobody else would have drafted so essentially we threw the pick away anyway). Nobody is going to trade a valuable young player for a two month rental either, and swapping expirings for expirings accomplishes nothing.

The smart thing to do, if a trade has to be done, is to target one or two young players that would fit into the future development of this team. We're beyond just the stockpiling talent phase at this point. We should be looking specifically for guys who will fit into this team with these players. Ideally these should also be players who are currently buried in the depth chart on their current teams or undervalued according to our scouts (who clearly have a different concept of value than most teams based on their draft choices). Then to make the trade work, try to pair those players with two year contracts not one year contracts. Petrie has already commited too far to the two year plan to go back now and so our willingness to take those contracts away from teams who need cap space sooner suddenly becomes a possible way to get more value out of a trade. You've got to use every edge you've got and us looking for two year deals might be a way to extract more value out of the market.

Of course that's all assuming Artest has to be traded. We're going to lose value in any deal regardless.

SacKings4Life21 · Jul 10, 2008

hrdboild said:

I hate this deal, and not just because I'm in the (extreme) minority that actually wants Artest to stay. Petrie never does anything I actually want him to do anyway, so it's understandable that Artest is gone after this season if he can't be traded. Whatever. But I don't see how this trade helps us.

1] Losing Kenny's contract is moot at this point because Geoff has already piled up enough two year contracts that we're still not going to have money until 2010 regardless.

2] Lamar Odom is maybe valuable as a trade asset, but with that contract who's going to take him? We'd have to take back more bad contracts most likely in any mid-season swap and that puts us back even further into salary cap hell. And it's debatable, especially when you factor in contracts, whether he's a better mid-season trade chip than Artest would be.

3] Assuming Lamar Odom does fit into this team and wants to stay, do we really want to pay him whatever he will want to stay (likely 10 million or more per year) one season before we're supposed to have cap space? If you do the math, at that point we'd be looking at mid-level talents again instead of superstars. So we'd basically be financially locked into a starting lineup featuring Kevin Martin, Beno Udrih, and Lamar Odom for the next 4-5 years. Is anyone honestly excited about that as the foundation?

I think it should also be noted that no trade for Artest or Odom's expiring deal is ever going to net us a high draft pick because the only teams trading for expiring players are contenders looking for their last piece. You're going to get a pick in the bottom of the first round which is not much more useful than the second round pick we got from Atlanta last year (which we used on a guy nobody else would have drafted so essentially we threw the pick away anyway). Nobody is going to trade a valuable young player for a two month rental either, and swapping expirings for expirings accomplishes nothing.

The smart thing to do, if a trade has to be done, is to target one or two young players that would fit into the future development of this team. We're beyond just the stockpiling talent phase at this point. We should be looking specifically for guys who will fit into this team with these players. Ideally these should also be players who are currently buried in the depth chart on their current teams or undervalued according to our scouts (who clearly have a different concept of value than most teams based on their draft choices). Then to make the trade work, try to pair those players with two year contracts not one year contracts. Petrie has already commited too far to the two year plan to go back now and so our willingness to take those contracts away from teams who need cap space sooner suddenly becomes a possible way to get more value out of a trade. You've got to use every edge you've got and us looking for two year deals might be a way to extract more value out of the market.

Of course that's all assuming Artest has to be traded. We're going to lose value in any deal regardless.

Incorrect.

OptimusRhyme · Jul 10, 2008

If Farmar or picks arent in the deal I dont want it. we could hold off for better.

FakeInjury · Jul 10, 2008

I want to build tension over this topic for months, i hope Petrie keeps Artest for a while longer, and just sit him half the time(just to make sure he stays healthy). Then Mid-February...BAM! two 1st rd picks flat for artest.

DocHolliday · Jul 10, 2008

OptimusRhyme said:

You're not going to get anything better. Ron's talent means squat at this point. Very few people want to bring that dynamic into their locker room.

DocHolliday · Jul 10, 2008

1] Losing Kenny's contract is moot at this point because Geoff has already piled up enough two year contracts that we're still not going to have money until 2010 regardless.

It unclogs the logjam at the 4 that we now have. It removes a bad attitude out of our locker room, and free's up bench space.

2] Lamar Odom is maybe valuable as a trade asset, but with that contract who's going to take him? We'd have to take back more bad contracts most likely in any mid-season swap and that puts us back even further into salary cap hell. And it's debatable, especially when you factor in contracts, whether he's a better mid-season trade chip than Artest would be.

you don't get Odom to trade him. You get him to let him walk away at the end of 08-09 and clear space. We have people to cover the 3 by the name of John Salmons, Francisco Garci, and Patrick Ewing Jr.

3] Assuming Lamar Odom does fit into this team and wants to stay, do we really want to pay him whatever he will want to stay (likely 10 million or more per year) one season before we're supposed to have cap space? If you do the math, at that point we'd be looking at mid-level talents again instead of superstars. So we'd basically be financially locked into a starting lineup featuring Kevin Martin, Beno Udrih, and Lamar Odom for the next 4-5 years. Is anyone honestly excited about that as the foundation?

the point is not to resign him. It's to let him walk.

I think it should also be noted that no trade for Artest or Odom's expiring deal is ever going to net us a high draft pick because the only teams trading for expiring players are contenders looking for their last piece. You're going to get a pick in the bottom of the first round which is not much more useful than the second round pick we got from Atlanta last year (which we used on a guy nobody else would have drafted so essentially we threw the pick away anyway). Nobody is going to trade a valuable young player for a two month rental either, and swapping expirings for expirings accomplishes nothing.

'd get a year rental, because you'd do it before the season started season. It's worth it, because you'd be rid of Artest's insanity, and KT's bad attitude

The smart thing to do, if a trade has to be done, is to target one or two young players that would fit into the future development of this team. We're beyond just the stockpiling talent phase at this point. We should be looking specifically for guys who will fit into this team with these players. Ideally these should also be players who are currently buried in the depth chart on their current teams or undervalued according to our scouts (who clearly have a different concept of value than most teams based on their draft choices). Then to make the trade work, try to pair those players with two year contracts not one year contracts. Petrie has already commited too far to the two year plan to go back now and so our willingness to take those contracts away from teams who need cap space sooner suddenly becomes a possible way to get more value out of a trade. You've got to use every edge you've got and us looking for two year deals might be a way to extract more value out of the market.

We wouldn't be stockpilin talent. We'd be getting an expiring contract, that got rid of two players we didn't want. This player would be earning his money instead of getting paid 10 million to travel and dress in a suit and not much more.

AriesMar27 · Jul 10, 2008

artest/thomas/williams for odom/ariza/farmar... the lakers are about to lose turiaf and shelden is more or less the exact same type of player... they are also stacked at sf and worst comes to worse they can sign a backup pg like lue or anthony johnson...

ITSCdanimal · Jul 10, 2008

Please give me a reason why Phoenix could get involved in the mix and make something like this work - http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4715833
maybe the Kings would need to give up a first....

Scott Howard Cooper trade idea: Artest/KT for Odom

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