Scenario #2: Do You Do It?

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Reports today are that Milwaulkee is now willing to entertain offers for Bogut (the constant injuries no doubt playing a factor) as long as a team is willing to take Stephen Jackson along with him. They also are sitting on several of our old personnel (Beno, Brockman).

Again ignoring exact financial details and assumign a third tema will get involved if necessary, if this was the cost would you:


our #1 this year if in lottery
Hickson
Hayes

for

Bogut
Jackson
Brockman

---------------------------------------------

Option #2 -- what if teh deal could be expanded to effectively undo the Salmosn trade? Would you:

our #1 this year if in lottery
Hickson
Hayes
Salmons
Jimmer

for

Bogut
Jackson
Brockman
Beno
 
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Bricklayer said:
Reports today is that Milwaulkee is now willign to entertain offers for Bogut (the constant injuries no doubt playing a factor) as long as a team is willing to take Stephen Jackson along with him. they also are sitting on several of our old personnel (Beno, Brockman).

Again ignoring exact financial details and assumign a third tema will get involved if necessary, if this was the cost would you:


our #1 this year if in lottery
Hickson
Hayes

for

Bogut
Jackson
Brockman

---------------------------------------------

Option #2 -- what if teh deal could be expanded to effectively undo the Salmosn trade? Would you:

our #1 this year if in lottery
Hickson
Hayes
Salmons
Jimmer

for

Bogut
Jackson
Brockman
Beno
Click to expand...

Option 2 looks great. What's the consensus on Jackson though? Can he still play? I'd like to give jimmer a bit more time now that i take the time to think about it, which makes me lean toward option 1. Either way picking up bogut would be HUGE if he can stay healthy. That gives us 2 top 10 centers, and one with some defensive ability.
 
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Hmmmmm, I just read that Bogut has asked to be moved. I will think about this. Could be similar to adding Vlade a while back, and if Cuz can grow into that Webb-PF role it is something to strongly consider.

But IT/MT/Reke/SJ with 1 ball? I'd be much more comfortable if I knew Reke would go back to PG/SG.
 
Would I do it? Nope, no way. I'm not gonna bring someone with a history of injury problems. And there's no way I'm ready to give up on Jimmer.
 
Giving up that pick is SCARY. However, can't be done anyway, would have to be a draft day deal and you'd at least know by that point who you're giving up.

Then you have the Jackson factor, which is an automatic no in my book.
 
if bogut could suddenly heal like wolverine, i would do it. but that happening is only like a 3 percent chance. so no
 
The cost is nicer than the proposed cost for Howard, but I wouldn't want to give up that pick before we knew what it was. And does Bogut fit next to Cousins any better than Howard would? If we get the #10 pick maybe we don't feel too bad about it, but can you imagine the backlash here if we traded the pick that turned out to be Anthony Davis for an injured Bogut? Wow. That would make the "Is Tyreke a PG" argument TIMES the "Fire Paul Westphal" thread RAISED to the "I Hate John Salmons" power look like the Summer of Love compared to the poison and vitriol we'd have around here. Imagining it makes me want to cry.

So no. Too risky.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
The cost is nicer than the proposed cost for Howard, but I wouldn't want to give up that pick before we knew what it was. And does Bogut fit next to Cousins any better than Howard would? If we get the #10 pick maybe we don't feel too bad about it, but can you imagine the backlash here if we traded the pick that turned out to be Anthony Davis for an injured Bogut? Wow. That would make the "Is Tyreke a PG" argument TIMES the "Fire Paul Westphal" thread RAISED to the "I Hate John Salmons" power look like the Summer of Love compared to the poison and vitriol we'd have around here. Imagining it makes me want to cry.

So no. Too risky.
Click to expand...

Yes, indeedy. This is a draft that can solve problems even if we don't move up. At present I think we are sitting at #5 tied with a couple other teams. Davis would be marvelous and as draft choices are based on statistics and not voodoo, past picks, or anything else, we have a chance at Davis. We also have a very good chance at getting Gilchrist - another defender. I have great hopes for the upcoming draft and don't want to ruin it.
 
Bricklayer said:
Reports today is that Milwaulkee is now willign to entertain offers for Bogut (the constant injuries no doubt playing a factor) as long as a team is willing to take Stephen Jackson along with him. they also are sitting on several of our old personnel (Beno, Brockman).

Again ignoring exact financial details and assumign a third tema will get involved if necessary, if this was the cost would you:


our #1 this year if in lottery
Hickson
Hayes

for

Bogut
Jackson
Brockman

---------------------------------------------

Option #2 -- what if teh deal could be expanded to effectively undo the Salmosn trade? Would you:

our #1 this year if in lottery
Hickson
Hayes
Salmons
Jimmer

for

Bogut
Jackson
Brockman
Beno
Click to expand...

Bogut is a hell of a player when healthy. Unfortunately, that hasn't been very often lately. I'm still not sure you can trade this years lottery pick because of the deal we make for Hickson. Plus, I'd rather have Ilyasova instead of Brockman. He's someone I've had my eye on for a while. Excellent rebounder who can on occasion hit the open outside shot. As a PF he's putting up better numbers than Thompson, he's a legit 6'10", and he plays pretty good defense. My only knock on him is he's not much of a passer. He's only 26 yr's old.

Jackson is a hell of a player and a good defender at the SF position. Of course he tends to be wack job at times, but if you can live with it, he's certainly an upgrade over what we have right now. I'm having this nightmare of Jackson and Cousins having a fistfight in the lockerroom.

Once again, if we end up with the first pick in the draft by some chance, the answer is no. If you described the best player in the world to put next to Cousins, and then looked it up in the dictionary, you'd find a picture of Anthony Davis.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
The cost is nicer than the proposed cost for Howard, but I wouldn't want to give up that pick before we knew what it was. And does Bogut fit next to Cousins any better than Howard would? If we get the #10 pick maybe we don't feel too bad about it, but can you imagine the backlash here if we traded the pick that turned out to be Anthony Davis for an injured Bogut? Wow. That would make the "Is Tyreke a PG" argument TIMES the "Fire Paul Westphal" thread RAISED to the "I Hate John Salmons" power look like the Summer of Love compared to the poison and vitriol we'd have around here. Imagining it makes me want to cry.

So no. Too risky.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. If we get the chance to draft Anthony Davis, there's no way I do the deal. Words do not describe what he's capable of. You simply have to see for yourself. He's the modern day version of Bill Russell, and it appears he can be that good, and maybe better offensively. I know thats high praise, but I've seen him do things that I doubt any player in the NBA right now can do. If we have a chance to get him, I don't trade that pick for anyone. Now if we end up picking toward the bottom of the lottery, thats another story.
 
Take out the pick and I do it. I don't know how interested they'll be swapping Salmons and Beno again. Really I'd focus on Bogut for Hickson/Garcia/2nd
 
bajaden said:
I agree 100%. If we get the chance to draft Anthony Davis, there's no way I do the deal. Words do not describe what he's capable of. You simply have to see for yourself. He's the modern day version of Bill Russell, and it appears he can be that good, and maybe better offensively. I know thats high praise, but I've seen him do things that I doubt any player in the NBA right now can do. If we have a chance to get him, I don't trade that pick for anyone. Now if we end up picking toward the bottom of the lottery, thats another story.
Click to expand...

My hope is that we pull a Blazers and get to pick first without completely sucking to do so.
 
Nighthawk1 said:
Take out the pick and I do it. I don't know how interested they'll be swapping Salmons and Beno again. Really I'd focus on Bogut for Hickson/Garcia/2nd
Click to expand...

That would certainly be more appetizing than completely dropping out of a once in a decade draft. Not so sure I want Bogut though, especially with his history of injuries. I think I would actually want their pick more since that could possibly be packaged with our current pick to let us move up in the draft
 
Nighthawk1 said:
Take out the pick and I do it. I don't know how interested they'll be swapping Salmons and Beno again. Really I'd focus on Bogut for Hickson/Garcia/2nd
Click to expand...


Um...did I mention that Bogut si rumored to be EXPENSIVE in trade, as opposed to just throwing crapo out theer for him. :)
 
I'd do it in a heart beat. I am not too attached to Hickson and Hayes. Even with the risk of a Bogut injury, I wouldn't be afraid of the trade. He would be a game changer for our team in a good way. We know what we are going to get out of Hickson and Hayes for the most part. A lotto draft pick for us would be nice, but unless it's Davis I wouldn't expect the player to have the potential of Bogut.

I know lots of people here wanted us to take a chance on Oden, what makes the Bogut risk different to those of you who felt that way?
 
spudfan said:
I'd do it in a heart beat. I am not too attached to Hickson and Hayes. Even with the risk of a Bogut injury, I wouldn't be afraid of the trade. He would be a game changer for our team in a good way. We know what we are going to get out of Hickson and Hayes for the most part. A lotto draft pick for us would be nice, but unless it's Davis I wouldn't expect the player to have the potential of Bogut.

I know lots of people here wanted us to take a chance on Oden, what makes the Bogut risk different to those of you who felt that way?
Click to expand...


Mmm, well upside on the last. Bogut got badly overrated during that whole "Fear the Deer" ooh let's be scared of the 45 win team nonsense. But he's 13 and 10 maybe. Good by modern standards. But Oden could have been battling with Dwight (and in a few years Cuz) for best in the game.

Now of course I threw this out anyway with Vlade to Cousins' Webb firmly in mind.
 
Thing about Bogut is his injuries aren't career limiting, or shouldn't be. The elbow incident was a freak accident. He's out with an ankle problem but didn't require surgery. Generally, it's backs and knees which limit careers as reinjuring them becomes easier. Not really worried about Bogut's problems haunting him for years down the road.

I just don't feel comfortable with some of these moves with our coach. I don't think he knows anything aside from small ball run and gun, and would he try to do that with a Bogut/Cuz frontline? Lol, probably would.
 
Bricklayer said:
Mmm, well upside on the last. Bogut got badly overrated during that whole "Fear the Deer" ooh let's be scared of the 45 win team nonsense. But he's 13 and 10 maybe. Good by modern standards. But Oden could have been battling with Dwight (and in a few years Cuz) for best in the game.

Now of course I threw this out anyway with Vlade to Cousins' Webb firmly in mind.
Click to expand...

Yea, I agree with Bogut being around 13-10 kind of player. Maybe a few more points to go with his couple block average. The reason I like him is that he always seems to be a fairly consistant player to me (when hes playing) which I would love to have on our team. I believe I have read you saying on here somewhere to the effect of that you can't keep relying on draft picks to get you to where you want to go. What's your opinion on the two trade options, and if we could, add a clause to the trade that makes it a #1 protected draft.
 
rainmaker said:
Thing about Bogut is his injuries aren't career limiting, or shouldn't be. The elbow incident was a freak accident. He's out with an ankle problem but didn't require surgery. Generally, it's backs and knees which limit careers as reinjuring them becomes easier. Not really worried about Bogut's problems haunting him for years down the road.

I just don't feel comfortable with some of these moves with our coach. I don't think he knows anything aside from small ball run and gun, and would he try to do that with a Bogut/Cuz frontline? Lol, probably would.
Click to expand...

I don't think he could try it. I don't think there is any doubt he would have Cousins and Bogut playing side by side which should eliminate the small ball for the starting lineup. Having another big that can score reliable too would help a lot with our rotations which in my opinion is small ball oriented because of a lack of scoring options for our bigs.
 
Arco is still standing on an indian burial ground so trading for Bogut is a no-no. The second wish of Stephen Jackson after competing for playoffs (are Kings going to?) is being the first option so you're trading for more expensive and probably crazier Salmons so he's even bigger no-no.
 
I don't know if the first proposal you posted is realistic from the Bucks perspective .. will they want more?

But assuming our pick is outside the top 5, then yea .. I think I'd pull the trigger on that one.
 
I'd like to go after Ilyasova, the guy has had monster games lately and has said he would sign for the team that pays him the most money, which is something we should be able to competitively offer. Even though he is a PF he could probably fit in at SF. With Cousins and Ilyasova we should suck up a lot of boards, and Ilyasova can even shoot some threes.
 
I'd love Bogut, but with his risk and injury history, as well as the style we play, I'd really much rather have Ilyasova. I think he'd play great off of Cousins as well. My deal would be JJ or JT, Greene, and Thornton for Beno and Ersan Ilyasova. Why do they do it? They are very eager to get rid of Jackson, who is likely to opt out. Marcus steps right in to their SG role, while JJ or JT steps in for Ersan. Greene is filler, and another expiring for them. I'd make one more run for AK47 this offseason, and take one more call from BOS about Rondo. Amnesty Fish in offseason, draft best player available, and if it's a big, let go of JJ. The team I'd field:

C: Cousins
PF: Ilyasova
SF: Kirilenko
PG: Thomas
SG: Evans
----------
6th: Hayes, C/PF
7th: Fredette, PG
8th: Draftee
9th: Udrih, SG/PG
10th: Garcia, SG/SF
11th: Outlaw, SF
12th: Honeycutt, SF
13th: Whiteside, C

Evans can swing as SF for rotations, letting us go with great range with Jimmer at PG and Udrih at SG, with Ersan at PF. Also improves us BIG time defensively. Also, imagine if we got Rondo. Wow.
 
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Bogut - Udrih - Ilyasova - Brockman for 1st round pick - Garcia - Thompson - Hickson - Jimmer (and possibly a few second rounders)

Leaving you with:

Evans/Thomas
Thornton/Udrih
Ilyasova/Salmons
Cousins/Hayes/Brockman
Bogut/Hayes/Brockman

What I would give to see Hayes and Brockman on the court at the same time... :)

I don't like giving up Thompson, but when you think about it .. he's one of our more valuable assets, and if your Bringing in Bogut while also keeping Hayes and Cousins on the roster .. he doesn't need to be here anymore. Plus he is going to get paid a hefty amount this offseason .. at least Chuck Hayes money, right?

Thomas and Udrih would also make Jimmer expendable. You could swap Garcia for Salmons, but I'm willing to bet the Bucks would rather have a new face then an old one. Plus he's younger, less years, less money ... better asset in my opinion.

We'd be saving the Bucks some big money and also giving them young assets .. and a draft pick. Is it enough? I'm not totally sure, but like I said before .. I really like Ilyasova. I'd go after him in the offseason, but if we can trade for him and lock him up now I would love to do that.

And I think Bogut - Cousins has Marc Gasol - Zach Randolph type potential .. Even Bynum - Gasol potential. It could be huge, literally.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Bogut - Udrih - Ilyasova - Brockman for 1st round pick - Garcia - Thompson - Hickson - Jimmer (and possibly a few second rounders)

Leaving you with:

Evans/Thomas
Thornton/Udrih
Ilyasova/Salmons
Cousins/Hayes/Brockman
Bogut/Hayes/Brockman

What I would give to see Hayes and Brockman on the court at the same time... :)

I don't like giving up Thompson, but when you think about it .. he's one of our more valuable assets, and if your Bringing in Bogut while also keeping Hayes and Cousins on the roster .. he doesn't need to be here anymore. Plus he is going to get paid a hefty amount this offseason .. at least Chuck Hayes money, right?

Thomas and Udrih would also make Jimmer expendable. You could swap Garcia for Salmons, but I'm willing to bet the Bucks would rather have a new face then an old one. Plus he's younger, less years, less money ... better asset in my opinion.

We'd be saving the Bucks some big money and also giving them young assets .. and a draft pick. Is it enough? I'm not totally sure, but like I said before .. I really like Ilyasova. I'd go after him in the offseason, but if we can trade for him and lock him up now I would love to do that.

And I think Bogut - Cousins has Marc Gasol - Zach Randolph type potential .. Even Bynum - Gasol potential. It could be huge, literally.
Click to expand...

Again, can't trade our first until the offseason and have to get one back based on deal to CLE last year.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
Can I ask where that info is from? not that I don't believe you, but I've heard it both ways.

I don't remember protected picks hampering teams this much in the past.
Click to expand...

You can't trade back to back picks so this years can't be traded because next years could go to the Cavs and technicial this years could go to the Cavs if bricks miracle happens in which case the pick would be for 2014. A deal can be worked out at draft time, but not made official till the next league fiscal year.
 
I like bogut but I don't think he'd put us over the top especially with his injuries. I'd rather keep the pick as this year has a pretty good draft class. if we could get Anthony Davis Harrison barnes or Drummond or Thomas robinson I'd rather keep the pick but I also would love to make a deal where we could dump donte Salmons jimmer
 
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