Say it isn't true Matt!

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
Sure, but the hole that the Kings have dug themselves into means they have little room for error the rest of the way.
We're not having to catch anybody good. We just have to catch Portland, who plays absolutely no defense and who's +/- suggests they should really be well under .500. its hard to be out of it with 60 games to play anyway, but when you are 4 games back of a middling opponent with 60 games to play, and have played the toughest part of your schedule...

With our schedule after the ASG, if we were 4 back of the #8 by that point I'd be tempted to call a bookie.
 
This remains a bizarre blindspot affecting much of the Kings fanbase, and I just absolutely refuse to let it stand. This team has been in everything all year long. If this team isn't close to being successful (moderately) then there is almost no way a team could show it was close to being successful. Its funny listening to other team's announcers, because they see it, and the team's own fans are so deep in their sorrows that they cannot.

here's one for you: this team absolutely has the potential to be the single best Sacramento Kings team there has ever been outside the Adelman era.

Of course that means almost nothing, because the very best non-Adelman team in franchise history won 39 games. But nonetheless, that would be the point. Such woeing when we are hardly used to better and this time have the best center in the world and a damn good coach to build around. Its bizarre, and unfortunately like many things, a feedback loop where everybody runs around telling each other how woeful it is and sinking ever further. I feel like we're trapped in another election cycle.
You're taking the short view. And that's fine but that's not where I'm looking. Could this Kings team possibly have a .500 record? Maybe. They blew a huge lead to the Lakers and are 0-3 in overtime games. Plus a few other games where a poor start forced them into furious comebacks that just fell short. All it would take is 3 of those games to break the other way and the team is 10-10 or 11-9 instead of 7-13.

Could this team as presently constructed make the playoffs? Maybe. It's a real uphill climb now that they are in a bit of a hole and reaching .500 would be tough and no guarantee that it would mean a playoff berth. Last year 41-41 was the Rocket's record as the 8th seed but so far this season the 8th place team (currently Portland is a bit over .500). Still, if things start breaking the Kings way and they improve under Joerger as the season rolls along and the schedule eases up a bit, they could make a run at that last postseason slot.

In the short term that would be great. Even being swept by the Warriors would be better than another losing season.

But then what?

Chicago gets the Kings 1st rounder. 2 of the 5 starters are free agents. Another will turn 37. Lawson is also a free agent meaning there won't be a single PG signed for next season. Casspi and McLemore will also be free agents, UFA and RFA respectively though that's a bit less of an issue since seemingly Joerger only gives minutes to one of them during any given stretch of games.

The Kings will be faced with the prospect of re-signing those guys (if they have any interest in returning and Gay has clearly hinted that he currently doesn't) or replacing them in free agency, something the Sacramento Kings have never been very successful at. And while they still have WCS, Papagiannis, Richardson and Labissiere and possibly Bogdanovic, hoping for them to be difference makers is pretty optimistic. Right now we're all hoping they can at least become rotation players in the NBA. Tolliver hasn't really played since the preseason and Afflalo has been a disappointment. Hard to see the Kings keeping them around next season, but the alternative is even more holes to patch in free agency. I have no complaints with Temple - I think he should be starting, and Koufos is a very solid backup C and spot starter. But I don't see what the Kings can do to build a winner around Cousins when they have no assets and Sacramento has never been a franchise to attract difference making free agents, our current GM being maybe the lone exception.

Even if the Kings start winning more games than they lose and somehow squeak into the playoffs Vlade is left either overpaying to keep together the same mediocre team that barely played .500 ball or having to go out and patch together another mediocre roster in free agency that will then take time to gel once again, all in the hopes that they can squeak into the playoffs the next year, though likely with a bit less talent.

The treadmill of mediocrity is one of the worst places for a team to be and we're supposed to HOPE the Kings can get to that point? This franchise has always had the best chance of success by hitting on draft picks and building a winner through their development and they've blown too many picks since drafting Cousins for that to have happened. If they are slightly improved this season they lose this year's first rounder. They'll lose their 2019 pick which will either likely be another mid to late lottery pick (or possibly a mid 1st rounder) if they can convince Cousins to re-sign yet again or it could be a top 3 pick, maybe first overall if he bolts after next season.

Despite the narrative that gets pushed regarding Boogie and the criticism he receives (some warranted, some not) the reality is that the Kings failed him and not the other way around. They drafted the best center in the NBA - a loyal kid who WANTS to be in Sacramento and turn things around and they didn't give him the support to do so.

And that's incredibly frustrating to me. But this is the draft to have multiple lottery picks. This is the season Cousins' value is highest. This is the front office and coaching relationship that can and should survive a rebuild. Now is the time to see the forest for the trees and recognize that while the Kings have some hope to be better this season, the long term prospects are dim and it's time to tear things down and start again.

This is the larger issue, but again the team was built the way it was on purpose specifically to allow for maximum flexibility going forward. When Kings fans' depression sits in, its a dark one, and even strategic flexibility gets turned on its head as more woe. But the intention obviously is to build the team we want to build, not be tied to the one we have.
If someone can show me a reasonable path forward where the Kings take their existing assets and build a team around Cousins that can actually contend I'm all ears. But hoping for a .500 team with no real hope beyond that? That's not for me.
 
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You're taking the short view. And that's fine but that's not where I'm looking. Could this Kings team possibly have a .500 record? Maybe. They blew a huge lead to the Lakers and are 0-3 in overtime games. Plus a few other games where a poor start forced them into furious comebacks that just fell short. All it would take is 3 of those games to break the other way and the team is 10-10 or 11-9 instead of 7-13.

Could this team as presently constructed make the playoffs? Maybe. It's a real uphill climb now that they are in a bit of a hole and reaching .500 would be tough and no guarantee that it would mean a playoff berth. Last year 41-41 was the Rocket's record as the 8th seed but so far this season the 8th place team (currently Portland is a bit over .500). Still, if things start breaking the Kings way and they improve under Joerger as the season rolls along and the schedule eases up a bit, they could make a run at that last postseason slot.

In the short term that would be great. Even being swept by the Warriors would be better than another losing season.

But then what?

Chicago gets the Kings 1st rounder. 2 of the 5 starters are free agents. Another will turn 37. Lawson is also a free agent meaning there won't be a single PG signed for next season. Casspi and McLemore will also be free agents, UFA and RFA respectively though that's a bit less of an issue since seemingly Joerger only gives minutes to one of them during any given stretch of games.

The Kings will be faced with the prospect of re-signing those guys (if they have any interest in returning and Gay has clearly hinted that he currently doesn't) or replacing them in free agency, something the Sacramento Kings have never been very successful at. And while they still have WCS, Papagiannis, Richardson and Labissiere and possibly Bogdanovic, hoping for them to be difference makers is pretty optimistic. Right now we're all hoping they can at least become rotation players in the NBA. Tolliver hasn't really played since the preseason and Afflalo has been a disappointment. Hard to see the Kings keeping them around next season, but the alternative is even more holes to patch in free agency. I have no complaints with Temple - I think he should be starting, and Koufos is a very solid backup C and spot starter. But I don't see what the Kings can do to build a winner around Cousins when they have no assets and Sacramento has never been a franchise to attract difference making free agents, our current GM being maybe the lone exception.

Even if the Kings start winning more games than they lose and somehow squeak into the playoffs Vlade is left either overpaying to keep together the same mediocre team that barely played .500 ball or having to go out and patch together another mediocre roster in free agency that will then take time to gel once again, all in the hopes that they can squeak into the playoffs the next year, though likely with a bit less talent.

The treadmill of mediocrity is one of the worst places for a team to be and we're supposed to HOPE the Kings can get to that point? This franchise has always had the best chance of success by hitting on draft picks and building a winner through their development and they've blown too many picks since drafting Cousins for that to have happened. If they are slightly improved this season they lose this year's first rounder. They'll lose their 2019 pick which will either likely be another mid to late lottery pick (or possibly a mid 1st rounder) if they can convince Cousins to re-sign yet again or it could be a top 3 pick, maybe first overall if he bolts after next season.

Despite the narrative that gets pushed regarding Boogie and the criticism he receives (some warranted, some not) the reality is that the Kings failed him and not the other way around. This is the draft to have multiple lottery picks. This is the season Cousins' value is highest. This is the front office and coaching relationship that can and should survive a rebuild. Now is the time to see the forest for the trees and recognize that while the Kings have some hope to be better this season, the long term prospects are dim and it's time to tear things down and start again.

If someone can show me a reasonable path forward where the Kings take their existing assets and build a team around Cousins that can actually contend I'm all ears. But hoping for a .500 team with no real hope beyond that? That's not for me.
It's a short view that also over-rates your short term assets. You can maybe make a playoff run if (1) Temple proves capable as starting SG (2) Ben proves capable as a starting SG (3) Willie proves capable as starting PF AND/OR (4) trade occurs that substantially and positively changes the dynamics of the team.

Independent of one or more of the above this team is going nowhere. All require a willingness for Joerger to change and/or Vlade to do something tangible to change and put the season (and his neck) on the line. The status quo is doomed. You are not making the playoffs with Koufos-Boogie frontline, A-Slow-o as your starting SG, with Barnes being your 6th man. If this is not obvious to Kings fans, then the nose on the front of your face is probably not obvious either.

In the long term I agree with you Funky K, that the road to relevance is foggy, with our pending free agents, and dicey recent draft picks and dubious decision-makers. If this turns into another 25-35 win season, I can not blame Boogie for taking a "wait-and-see" approach to signing an extension.....and if the Kings are put into this predicament and uncertainty, bidding him farewell to the highest and overpaying suitor will be the most prudent decision.
 
So do you have facts not in evidence to the rest of us? Instead of the moral outrage and hostility, why not just wait and see?

I knew this thread would turn ugly but I was really hoping we could have an intelligent discussion without resorting to the kind of stuff that has pretty much driven me from Twitter. I'm honestly disappointed. I always thought KF was better than this.
What facts are we waiting for? Did you not see the video yet? I'm being serious... It's literally his own words.
 
You're taking the short view. And that's fine but that's not where I'm looking. Could this Kings team possibly have a .500 record? Maybe. They blew a huge lead to the Lakers and are 0-3 in overtime games. Plus a few other games where a poor start forced them into furious comebacks that just fell short. All it would take is 3 of those games to break the other way and the team is 10-10 or 11-9 instead of 7-13.

Could this team as presently constructed make the playoffs? Maybe. It's a real uphill climb now that they are in a bit of a hole and reaching .500 would be tough and no guarantee that it would mean a playoff berth. Last year 41-41 was the Rocket's record as the 8th seed but so far this season the 8th place team (currently Portland is a bit over .500). Still, if things start breaking the Kings way and they improve under Joerger as the season rolls along and the schedule eases up a bit, they could make a run at that last postseason slot.

In the short term that would be great. Even being swept by the Warriors would be better than another losing season.

But then what?

Chicago gets the Kings 1st rounder. 2 of the 5 starters are free agents. Another will turn 37. Lawson is also a free agent meaning there won't be a single PG signed for next season. Casspi and McLemore will also be free agents, UFA and RFA respectively though that's a bit less of an issue since seemingly Joerger only gives minutes to one of them during any given stretch of games.

The Kings will be faced with the prospect of re-signing those guys (if they have any interest in returning and Gay has clearly hinted that he currently doesn't) or replacing them in free agency, something the Sacramento Kings have never been very successful at. And while they still have WCS, Papagiannis, Richardson and Labissiere and possibly Bogdanovic, hoping for them to be difference makers is pretty optimistic. Right now we're all hoping they can at least become rotation players in the NBA. Tolliver hasn't really played since the preseason and Afflalo has been a disappointment. Hard to see the Kings keeping them around next season, but the alternative is even more holes to patch in free agency. I have no complaints with Temple - I think he should be starting, and Koufos is a very solid backup C and spot starter. But I don't see what the Kings can do to build a winner around Cousins when they have no assets and Sacramento has never been a franchise to attract difference making free agents, our current GM being maybe the lone exception.

Even if the Kings start winning more games than they lose and somehow squeak into the playoffs Vlade is left either overpaying to keep together the same mediocre team that barely played .500 ball or having to go out and patch together another mediocre roster in free agency that will then take time to gel once again, all in the hopes that they can squeak into the playoffs the next year, though likely with a bit less talent.

The treadmill of mediocrity is one of the worst places for a team to be and we're supposed to HOPE the Kings can get to that point? This franchise has always had the best chance of success by hitting on draft picks and building a winner through their development and they've blown too many picks since drafting Cousins for that to have happened. If they are slightly improved this season they lose this year's first rounder. They'll lose their 2019 pick which will either likely be another mid to late lottery pick (or possibly a mid 1st rounder) if they can convince Cousins to re-sign yet again or it could be a top 3 pick, maybe first overall if he bolts after next season.

Despite the narrative that gets pushed regarding Boogie and the criticism he receives (some warranted, some not) the reality is that the Kings failed him and not the other way around. They drafted the best center in the NBA - a loyal kid who WANTS to be in Sacramento and turn things around and they didn't give him the support to do so.

And that's incredibly frustrating to me. But this is the draft to have multiple lottery picks. This is the season Cousins' value is highest. This is the front office and coaching relationship that can and should survive a rebuild. Now is the time to see the forest for the trees and recognize that while the Kings have some hope to be better this season, the long term prospects are dim and it's time to tear things down and start again.



If someone can show me a reasonable path forward where the Kings take their existing assets and build a team around Cousins that can actually contend I'm all ears. But hoping for a .500 team with no real hope beyond that? That's not for me.
Ya, this is how I feel too. I think that the players Vlade recruited will resign for equal or lesser pay which is contingent on making progress... but your boding prediction is hard to dispute or disguise even with a new arena.

The reasonable path forward that we hope for is paved with luck and one legitimate star free agent. Getting that FA to come might happen if we get into the playoffs this year and even then, we will have to overpay. But I'm cool with that. I just want a taste of what a good team feels like, especially with talents like Rudy and Cuz. Not being able to make a team around Cuz is not only astonishingly embarrassing, but a missed opportunity to create legendary basketball. I want the Kings to be the ones to trend monstrous, gritty rage.

This is the hope I'm clinging on to and I have yet to see anything this season that can squash that hope. We are about where we should be and that means we've made SOME progress.
 
all schedules balance out. If you start the season 0-10 playing all 10 of your games against the Warriors, Spurs and Cavs, you still have a reasonable chance to make the playoffs because in the end, most of your competitors are going to go 0-10, 1-9, 2-8 against those teams over the course of the season too. The optics just look bad because you had to have all that to start the season, but in the end the losses will balance, and you have 72 more games without an automatic loss left on the schedule. you'll have your chance.
Watch and see as the season progresses and we lose to teams that have good records and the new excuse will be that those are winning teams, regardless of how "easy" schedules they might have had early on. In other words, "Our losses don't count because every opponent we play is better than us!"
 
If this was self defense then there is no legal wrong doing. At least as far as I know you can still defend yourself if attacked in all 50 states:)

Also making comments on video being proud of defending yourself is not illegal as far as I know.

So why not just let it work itself out instead of getting the pitchforks and torches out???:eek:
 
Watch and see as the season progresses and we lose to teams that have good records and the new excuse will be that those are winning teams, regardless of how "easy" schedules they might have had early on. In other words, "Our losses don't count because every opponent we play is better than us!"
The better team always wins. The better team at that moment in time.

Seriously folks did you really think this team was going to turn it around this quickly? At times they have been close this season to winning a lot of the games they ultimately lost. The Kings are still learning to play together and the roster may need adjustments. But either way these things take time and 20 games is not likely to be enough time.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
You are placing too much credibility on a team too often playing catch-up.

This is your mistake. Bad teams fall behind then play catch-up for three quarters. Good teams take control then fight off pretenders and battle disinterest long enough to cruise to the win. When the Kings fall behind by 20 points, as they did against the Knicks and Rockets, then battle to make the outcome respectable, the correct assessment is NOT "the Kings were impressively competitive" or whatever you want to say RE: the brink of respectability. The correct assessment is the team out of sync offensively and defensively more often than not.

They do not dictate tempo or assert their will.....instead they benefit from an opponent who lets their foot off the gas against an opponent with the comfort of knowing it is not hard to defend against a team with 1-2 predictable scoring options.

Bottom line is THIS TEAM IS NOT GOOD. Not diverse offensively, not cohesive or synergetic defensively. I watched the NBA long enough to know a playoff team or contender when I see one and unless something changes substantially, this team is a collection of pretenders that will be eliminated from playoff contention by mid-January.
I agree. Probably a 90%+ chance the Kings are out of real possibility of playoff contention by mid-January. There's always the off-chance of a deal-changer with Divac fleecing some other team with one of the few assets we have, but I think that's low probability.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
I agree. Probably a 90%+ chance the Kings are out of real possibility of playoff contention by mid-January. There's always the off-chance of a deal-changer with Divac fleecing some other team with one of the few assets we have, but I think that's low probability.
Given that it takes little imagine at all to see how we could go 15-10 or 16-9 ater the All Star break, we just have to be ever so vaguely in the neighborhood heading into the break.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
One thing nobody has talked about is injuries. Despite having been very fortunate with no injuries, their record is still bad. If they do get the "normal" amount of injuries during the remainder of the season, the shelf will be absolutely bare for this team.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
One thing nobody has talked about is injuries. Despite having been very fortunate with no injuries, their record is still bad. If they do get the "normal" amount of injuries during the remainder of the season, the shelf will be absolutely bare for this team.
Just wait for Darren Collison to comeback...................
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/12/07...s-cousins-sued-over-new-york-nightclub-fight/

Ruh-oh!

Now, I'm still all about holding off until the dust settles and some witnesses come forward... But that's not a good look!

Maybe bringing Barnes in for a "culture change" wasn't the best idea?

I would take that sort of filing with a giant grain of salt -- people get into an altercation with an NBA player and $$ signs fill their eyes and they'll say anything to try to get a quick $$ settlement. Maybe some of it is true. Bet dollars to doughnuts not all of it is.
 
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http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/12/07...s-cousins-sued-over-new-york-nightclub-fight/

Ruh-oh!

Now, I'm still all about holding off until the dust settles and some witnesses come forward... But that's not a good look!

Maybe bringing Barnes in for a "culture change" wasn't the best idea?
Not being a homer at all but a few things stood out to me as not adding up. As big of a scumbag Barnes is, I find it hard to believe he just walked up to some woman in a club and out of the blue and began strangling her. I also find it hard to believe the guy with her is still alive if DMC blind sided him with a vicious sucker punch as he said. I would probably lean more towards a drunken bump in a club gone awry and a brawl ensued. But I was not there so I shouldn't speculate on what happened
 
This could be anything from a false accusation non-issue to a serious problem for the team (if some of the allegations are true). It certainly doesn't help Cousins' reputation to be accused of assault. I don't see the point in speculating how this will turn out since I have no information, but the fact that it's Matt Barnes who got Cousins involved in whatever this is in the first place should be significant to the front office. He came to the team with a reputation for being an off-court distraction and this just confirms it. I get that he's from Sacramento and he played for Dave Joerger last year and when he's focused he plays with an edge that our team has been sorely lacking for a long time... but I still wish we hadn't signed him. Or Ty Lawson. The position we're in, there's no point taking a risk on these kinds of veterans. Neither one has the talent to add much to our win total at this point in their careers and we need to be eliminating distractions and fixing our public image. It's almost all downside with very little upside.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Here's what we know:
1. Nobody has been arrested.
2.The NYPD has video from inside the club but says it's "inconclusive."
3. There are two sides to every story.

I personally think we need to let this play out and be careful with accusations or finger-pointing.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016...s-little-from-matt-barnes-nightclub-incident/


According to sources close to the investigation, the NYPD has the Avenue security videos from that evening, but are not able to glean any pertinent information from them because of low lighting.

Witnesses that were present at the time of the investigation revealed the following:

  • The altercation was physically initiated by a woman who has since filed a lawsuit against the two NBA players.
  • Cousins was at the other side of the nightclub when the altercation began.
  • Barnes was knocked to the ground by multiple assailants.
  • Club security escorted the two NBA players out of the building.

as I said way back at the beginning of this thread...hold yer horses everybody.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
Matt Barnes needs to gtfo this team. He brings nothing but bad energy off-court and plays dirty on the court.
Plays dirty on the court is why we signed him.

And btw, as any New Yorker could tell you, NYDN is half a step up from NYP, which might not even be a half a step up from the Enquirer.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
Plays dirty on the court is why we signed him.

And btw, as any New Yorker could tell you, NYDN is half a step up from NYP, which might not even be a half a step up from the Enquirer.
Geez man you are going down swinging with Matt Barnes. Dude is dirty, I say cut him today. There is no way that whole article is BS