Sasha Watch 2022-2023

iowamcnabb said:
I think you need to be pretty sure Sasha is 5 or 6 mil a year better than Lyles is all I’m saying. He might be, but it is a roll of a dice on a set of skills we aren’t desperate for imo
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That's true, how much does Sasha expect to make? I'm sure Lyles as brought up above would be looking for bottom end 4-5 million per so if Sasha is expecting to make full MLE $ on his first deal then he's playing hard ball. His current contract in the Euros is well below that, like not even close to it. I think he's making like almost a tenth of near MLE money now. In the end it comes down to talent. When you are on the cusp and need that extra piece you can sign a million Lyles types and it won't make a difference in the end, not until you have the upper part of your rotation locked down. No more JT's, Holmes, etc. until you're set. Then the JT/Holmes/Lyles level talents will come to you.
 
Kingz19 said:
We could be. Depending on how the bench is dealt with and how well Sasha translates to the NBA. I think he’s a perfect modern 4. I think Sasha would immediately provide better three point shooting, rebounding, and assists. Defense is a question mark only because I legitimately don’t know…but I’m not going to assume he’s a bad defender just because he’s a EuroLeague guy. I just don’t know how he will be on that end in the NBA.

I actually expect that both HB and Sasha will be on the roster next season. I also don’t mind if HB is brought back.

I just don’t think keeping Barnes should come with the commitment that he’s basically our starting forward for the length of his deal and they certainly shouldn’t overpay to keep him. I have no clue what Barnes value is around the league.

the reason I even brought it up in this thread is I’m noticing fans sort of falling in love with the team as is. Fair enough. They’re having a good season. They probably haven’t reached their peak as currently constructed, but they’re probably close.

but people are talking about re-signing Lyles too and wondering how Sasha fits in with Lyles getting minutes. We’re already committed to HB eating 35 minutes and also a hefty portion of the salary cap and already deciding their might not be minutes for a guy that looks like a match made in heaven for this team.

it’s not specifically about Sasha replacing anybody that I brought it up…I was just getting some Washington Wizards vibes from the outlooks I was seeing. The Wizards have never seen a 45 win team that they didn’t want to go all in keeping together 1-8. They’ve done it about 3-4 times over the last 25 years.

I don’t want the Domas and Fox core to hit a wall because the Kings settled at the first sign of success.

if they believe Sasha’s game will translate the NBA, they should definitely get him over here with the expectation he’s going to play significant minutes with Domas and Fox.

If there is a question to Monte and the coaching staff on whether he can beat out Trey Lyles then they probably shouldn’t bother to bring him over at all. Unless he takes a smaller deal than most of us expect him to take.
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And that's the big danger. Look at the Suns and Mavs of previous years. They stagnated and luckily for them somehow were able to spin that off into potentially franchise changing moves this year. With the Suns being long term costs of a monumental level of course. This is why if Monte can cultivate some cap space while also re-signing Barnes, bringing in Sasha, and potentially making a big signing or even trade with his pick/youth that could be the ticket to long term contention. These playoffs will tell Monte what he needs to know. Murray is under the gun now, his coach is basically saying, prove you're that 3rd guy and if he can do it then that will ease things quite a bit moving forward.
 
Both:

Fox,Davion
Heurter,Monk
Murray(15Min),Barnes
Sasha,Murray(15Min)
Sabonis, Lyles (i hope you mean 3 yrs, 5 to 8M per year)

Nine man rotation plenty mins for Sasha

Murray should split his minutes between 3 and 4 position
to lure Sasha to USA use the full MLE and promise starting 4 with 30 min.

Fox,Heurter,Murray,Sasha could be the best 3-pt starter quartet in the NBA
Monk,Barnes,Murray,Lyles could be the best 3-pt bench quartet in the NBA
Sabonis,Lyles at C

Let it rain 3s at Golden One

If Huerter,Murray,Sasha go Cold you put in TD, or Defensive Backup (KZ,Kessler) to weather the storm

Fox,Sasha,Sabonis our new Big Three!!

A Gamble? Yes. Expensive Yes.
Go for it Monte, Upen your wallet Kings!
 
SacTownKid said:
And that's the big danger. Look at the Suns and Mavs of previous years. They stagnated and luckily for them somehow were able to spin that off into potentially franchise changing moves this year. With the Suns being long term costs of a monumental level of course. This is why if Monte can cultivate some cap space while also re-signing Barnes, bringing in Sasha, and potentially making a big signing or even trade with his pick/youth that could be the ticket to long term contention. These playoffs will tell Monte what he needs to know. Murray is under the gun now, his coach is basically saying, prove you're that 3rd guy and if he can do it then that will ease things quite a bit moving forward.
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It’s a bit early though. Keegan can be the 3rd guy one day or even more than that, but idk that he’s gonna prove that on year 1. I didn’t expect him to even do what he has up to this point Tbh
 
I think if we make some noise in the playoffs - even a hard fought first round loss in 6-7 games - we'd be enticing as a piece away and with a system that can showcase what he can do.

I don't know if we can promise any sort of minutes or role to him but I suspect he might want contract flexibility if he's hesitant about joining the association. Maybe a two year contract with a player option for year 3. If he's a hit he'd be the natural long term replacement to Barnes, who will be on the decline as our big 4 enters their playoff primes (27-32 for most).
 
NewArena said:
It’s a bit early though. Keegan can be the 3rd guy one day or even more than that, but idk that he’s gonna prove that on year 1. I didn’t expect him to even do what he has up to this point Tbh
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True, but Keegan has to start showing that potential now though. The age factor is a thing. He's clearly developed and this isn't some raw talent that you can expect some major jump a few years down the road. The ceiling debate isn't always about how high it is, but rather how close they are to it and outside of a few things he looks every bit ready to be something other than a pure system player. When you draft ready made talent that high in a deep draft that expectation goes along with it and Brown is laying the groundwork for the next jump with his comments. Now his coaching needs to follow suit and he needs to involve Murray a little more and see what happens when Murray isn't relying on Sabonis or Fox to create nearly 90% of Murrays offense.
 
SacTownKid said:
That's true, how much does Sasha expect to make? I'm sure Lyles as brought up above would be looking for bottom end 4-5 million per so if Sasha is expecting to make full MLE $ on his first deal then he's playing hard ball. His current contract in the Euros is well below that, like not even close to it. I think he's making like almost a tenth of near MLE money now. In the end it comes down to talent. When you are on the cusp and need that extra piece you can sign a million Lyles types and it won't make a difference in the end, not until you have the upper part of your rotation locked down. No more JT's, Holmes, etc. until you're set. Then the JT/Holmes/Lyles level talents will come to you.
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Euro contracts are reported post tax. I think he got a raise to something like 1.5 per, but it also has a buyout he's on the hook for paying.

I think what we know is the team was prepared to offer him the BAE last summer and he chose to not even come visit. So we're looking at something between the standard exceptions. But he also wanted a guaranteed role and we were kind of not the best track record team last summer.

I believe a 3 year MLE with a team option for Y3 would give us bird and restricted FA rights if he works out, but we could move on after two if he doesn't - and that option would probably make for a nice tradeable contract at a time that we are operating above the cap and moving deals like that has some value.

Not sure if we can re-sign Barnes and Lyles, and Sasha on these terms. Those 3, plus Keegan and Domas, and maybe Queta or some other back of bench guy, we can let most of our expirings go, though I wouldn't mind keeping TD so we have some trade flexibility - either to move him later or move Mitchell (or move both for a single high quality backup PG that can play both sides of the ball).
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Euro contracts are reported post tax. I think he got a raise to something like 1.5 per, but it also has a buyout he's on the hook for paying.

I think what we know is the team was prepared to offer him the BAE last summer and he chose to not even come visit. So we're looking at something between the standard exceptions. But he also wanted a guaranteed role and we were kind of not the best track record team last summer.

I believe a 3 year MLE with a team option for Y3 would give us bird and restricted FA rights if he works out, but we could move on after two if he doesn't - and that option would probably make for a nice tradeable contract at a time that we are operating above the cap and moving deals like that has some value.

Not sure if we can re-sign Barnes and Lyles, and Sasha on these terms. Those 3, plus Keegan and Domas, and maybe Queta or some other back of bench guy, we can let most of our expirings go, though I wouldn't mind keeping TD so we have some trade flexibility - either to move him later or move Mitchell (or move both for a single high quality backup PG that can play both sides of the ball).
Click to expand...

But then you're basically banking on Sasha being the big move. Re-signing any of the bench guys TD included basically depends on the playoffs in my opinion. Filling your cap out with players who might not factor into your rotation is just adding to the Holmes problem.
 
SacTownKid said:
But then you're basically banking on Sasha being the big move. Re-signing any of the bench guys TD included basically depends on the playoffs in my opinion. Filling your cap out with players who might not factor into your rotation is just adding to the Holmes problem.
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I believe the big move will be a trade in another season or two. Same as Bibby deal.

I don't think an MLE piece is ever going to be the "big" one. It's just routine talent acquisition. I consider keeping Barnes also just not losing that money for future trade. Unless there is a huge cap jump, we don't have lots of money to spend, but we have our picks save 2024 and we have a lot of pieces that could be moved. You keep them around to use in trade, just make sure you aren't overpaying for any so they wind up like Buddy.
 
I trust that Monte will make the right decision on Sasha and if he comes over I hope he is a stud.

I’ve never seen a release like his, can anyone think of an NBA player past or present with a similar form?
 
sactowndog said:
Be interesting if they could waive and stretch Richaun to bring him over this year
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That would just be a lot of dead money on the cap for longer. If Holmes does nothing else he becomes a tradeable asset as he is expiring. We'll be operating above the cap at that time so even just finding a better fit for the money becomes worth it. We're probably never going to attract a big free agent here but if Vivek is willing to spend once we have a good team you're a lot better off being over the cap as long as you don't make wretched contract signings.
 
I decided to watch another 3 full recent Olympiacos games back to back for Vezenkov. One thing you don't really get to see from the highlight videos is how he operates within his team's offense. Just for context, this guy is one of the best players in Europe. He's the leading scorer on his team with 17.6ppg in all contests. He's the 2nd overall leading scorer in the Euroleague.. and he's doing all of this while playing in a Keegan Murray role.

It's really mind-blowing. He doesn't get the ball forced-fed to him. He's not the focal point of their offense. But what he does do is constantly cutting and moving around without the ball while playing within their offense. This is why he's shooting 65% from 2pt range this season. He's always able to find myself at the right spot for putbacks as well.

I know this video has already been shared in the first page, but I think it does an excellent job breaking down how Vezenkov excels on offense:


He's got a clear role in the NBA if he comes over. What if we move Keegan into HB's starting role and allow him to be more of a creator? Then move Sasha into Keegan's current role as an off-ball floor stretcher?

There's no wonder why a guy like Fox would love to play with him. Just from my own guessing, I think consistent playing time will be just as important as the money. I don't think Mike brown will be able to give him the same treatment as he did Lyles and Metu, not to mention his idiotic dog house card he loves to pull on his rotational guys. Vezenkov isn't a young inexperienced player.. he's a 28-year-old man who's the leading favorite to be Euroleague MVP. I think he clearly wants to come to the NBA, but not if it means getting 15 minutes one night, to 3 minutes the next.
 
Sasha Vezenkov is having his best season yet in Europe, being a prime candidate for the EuroLeague MVP award, while Sacramento Kings assistant Jay Triano traveled all the way to Greece to watch him in person. However, it seems he is not the only one watching. Asked on the matter during the All-Star media day, Sacramento Kings All-Star Domantas Sabonis had only good things to say about the Bulgarian forward: “Yes, I’ve watched him. He’s a great player, very talented. He’s playing great in Europe with Olympiacos. They’re doing amazing in EuroLeague. I don’t know what he’s thinking, but we obviously would love to have him here”.
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via eurohoopes.net
 
iowamcnabb said:
I trust that Monte will make the right decision on Sasha and if he comes over I hope he is a stud.

I’ve never seen a release like his, can anyone think of an NBA player past or present with a similar form?
Click to expand...


Well he's a lefty so that complicates things a ton.. If you really hang around basketball people, aau types, u will hear many claims made about lefty shooters, I'm not gonna get into that can of worms when discussing a dead eye proven marksman the quality of Vezenkov though.

His shot is both quick release and relatively low release. Sometimes he dips the ball but he doesnt always need to when he's trying to get the shot off in a fraction of a second.


So i'd say Kyle Korver is a pretty safe answer to this question... He didnt have a particularly high release either.. Korver's a righty though.. Korver like Vezenkov could get his shot off in the blink of an eye if needed.


If your looking for a lefty to compare Vezenkov's shot to.... I mean... James Harden is probably a pretty good answer, though obviously he shoots a lot after chaining all these crazy crossovers n stepbacks together so the optics looks a lil dif, when you just isolate the shot form though its not that far off..... He's a lower than normal release guy as well..

Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk is probably a pretty good answer for a lefty as well..

43305432854_55c53c24a1_b.jpg

I'm something like Ned Flanders when it comes to basketball lefties :cool: . De'Aaron Fox is my favorite player, has been for years. I can make 30 3's in a row once in a blue moon, but my mechanics arent like these lefties, I shoot it way over my head. The summer after Dirk Nowitzki won the championship I started releasing the ball way above my head like him and i've never stopped.
 
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Rather than us filling the PF spot with a 3'n'D type

If Vezenkov comes over this summer we can just look at getting a really exceptional defensive/rebounding bigman to fill Metu or Len's roster spot. Seems that Lyles gets resigned which means its even more likely we go after a defensive/rebounding specialist, like James Nnaji in the draft, or Jaxson Hayes or Nerlens Noel in Free Agency.


The Kings have already done such a fantastic job in gathering enough shooting here that now we can sorta move past that and use the remaining roster spots to patch holes elsewhere. Which sure is great.
 
206Fan said:
I decided to watch another 3 full recent Olympiacos games back to back for Vezenkov. One thing you don't really get to see from the highlight videos is how he operates within his team's offense. Just for context, this guy is one of the best players in Europe. He's the leading scorer on his team with 17.6ppg in all contests. He's the 2nd overall leading scorer in the Euroleague.. and he's doing all of this while playing in a Keegan Murray role.

It's really mind-blowing. He doesn't get the ball forced-fed to him. He's not the focal point of their offense. But what he does do is constantly cutting and moving around without the ball while playing within their offense. This is why he's shooting 65% from 2pt range this season. He's always able to find myself at the right spot for putbacks as well.

I know this video has already been shared in the first page, but I think it does an excellent job breaking down how Vezenkov excels on offense:


He's got a clear role in the NBA if he comes over. What if we move Keegan into HB's starting role and allow him to be more of a creator? Then move Sasha into Keegan's current role as an off-ball floor stretcher?

There's no wonder why a guy like Fox would love to play with him. Just from my own guessing, I think consistent playing time will be just as important as the money. I don't think Mike brown will be able to give him the same treatment as he did Lyles and Metu, not to mention his idiotic dog house card he loves to pull on his rotational guys. Vezenkov isn't a young inexperienced player.. he's a 28-year-old man who's the leading favorite to be Euroleague MVP. I think he clearly wants to come to the NBA, but not if it means getting 15 minutes one night, to 3 minutes the next.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is all spot on. Maybe he wouldn't be successful with a lot of teams but just watching his game for a little... you see a flawless fit off Domas passing and a potential elite floor stretcher when Fox collapses the defense. A more experienced/polished current Keegan Murray seems like a great comp.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I believe the big move will be a trade in another season or two. Same as Bibby deal.

I don't think an MLE piece is ever going to be the "big" one. It's just routine talent acquisition. I consider keeping Barnes also just not losing that money for future trade. Unless there is a huge cap jump, we don't have lots of money to spend, but we have our picks save 2024 and we have a lot of pieces that could be moved. You keep them around to use in trade, just make sure you aren't overpaying for any so they wind up like Buddy.
Click to expand...

Monte might have some wiggle room this summer though if he can move Holmes free and clear. The room MLE is like 5 million, that should be enough to lure Sasha over if he really wants to come to the NBA.
 
206Fan said:
I decided to watch another 3 full recent Olympiacos games back to back for Vezenkov. One thing you don't really get to see from the highlight videos is how he operates within his team's offense. Just for context, this guy is one of the best players in Europe. He's the leading scorer on his team with 17.6ppg in all contests. He's the 2nd overall leading scorer in the Euroleague.. and he's doing all of this while playing in a Keegan Murray role.

It's really mind-blowing. He doesn't get the ball forced-fed to him. He's not the focal point of their offense. But what he does do is constantly cutting and moving around without the ball while playing within their offense. This is why he's shooting 65% from 2pt range this season. He's always able to find myself at the right spot for putbacks as well.

I know this video has already been shared in the first page, but I think it does an excellent job breaking down how Vezenkov excels on offense:


He's got a clear role in the NBA if he comes over. What if we move Keegan into HB's starting role and allow him to be more of a creator? Then move Sasha into Keegan's current role as an off-ball floor stretcher?

There's no wonder why a guy like Fox would love to play with him. Just from my own guessing, I think consistent playing time will be just as important as the money. I don't think Mike brown will be able to give him the same treatment as he did Lyles and Metu, not to mention his idiotic dog house card he loves to pull on his rotational guys. Vezenkov isn't a young inexperienced player.. he's a 28-year-old man who's the leading favorite to be Euroleague MVP. I think he clearly wants to come to the NBA, but not if it means getting 15 minutes one night, to 3 minutes the next.
Click to expand...

That test needs to start now to make sure because as the stats show, even though Barnes doesn't do it nearly enough, he's an ELITE iso scorer. Like one of the best in the entire league when willing. The Kings have system guys already and can't lose any on ball ability. It sounds like Brown is ready to see more so we'll see what Keegan can do. If Keegan can show the potential to be a top option for the team then bringing back Barnes and signing Sasha might actually be enough for now. If not, losing Barnes becomes even less of an option IMO because you're even less able to withstand any missed games from Fox. Then I think Monte might need to start looking at Sasha as a potential fit next to Barnes and perhaps make a play for someone like Beal or LaVine on draft night.
 
SacTownKid said:
Monte might have some wiggle room this summer though if he can move Holmes free and clear. The room MLE is like 5 million, that should be enough to lure Sasha over if he really wants to come to the NBA.
Click to expand...
Isn't that the same as the BAE? Who knows lots has changed. I think he'd still want minutes/role guarantee unless we just rolled out the Brinks truck.

If Monte can move Holmes this summer he's a miracle man.
 
SacTownKid said:
That test needs to start now to make sure because as the stats show, even though Barnes doesn't do it nearly enough, he's an ELITE iso scorer. Like one of the best in the entire league when willing. The Kings have system guys already and can't lose any on ball ability. It sounds like Brown is ready to see more so we'll see what Keegan can do. If Keegan can show the potential to be a top option for the team then bringing back Barnes and signing Sasha might actually be enough for now. If not, losing Barnes becomes even less of an option IMO because you're even less able to withstand any missed games from Fox. Then I think Monte might need to start looking at Sasha as a potential fit next to Barnes and perhaps make a play for someone like Beal or LaVine on draft night.
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Unfortunately this doesn't mean much when he does it for one 8-game stretch a year and then fades back into the shadows. That's just who he is.

Sasha isn't coming over for any less than the initial Bogi deal imo. 3 yr/8-10mil per season range. That would still let him go back to Euroleague in his prime if the NBA didn't work out
 
206Fan said:
I decided to watch another 3 full recent Olympiacos games back to back for Vezenkov. One thing you don't really get to see from the highlight videos is how he operates within his team's offense. Just for context, this guy is one of the best players in Europe. He's the leading scorer on his team with 17.6ppg in all contests. He's the 2nd overall leading scorer in the Euroleague.. and he's doing all of this while playing in a Keegan Murray role.

It's really mind-blowing. He doesn't get the ball forced-fed to him. He's not the focal point of their offense. But what he does do is constantly cutting and moving around without the ball while playing within their offense. This is why he's shooting 65% from 2pt range this season. He's always able to find myself at the right spot for putbacks as well.

I know this video has already been shared in the first page, but I think it does an excellent job breaking down how Vezenkov excels on offense:


He's got a clear role in the NBA if he comes over. What if we move Keegan into HB's starting role and allow him to be more of a creator? Then move Sasha into Keegan's current role as an off-ball floor stretcher?

There's no wonder why a guy like Fox would love to play with him. Just from my own guessing, I think consistent playing time will be just as important as the money. I don't think Mike brown will be able to give him the same treatment as he did Lyles and Metu, not to mention his idiotic dog house card he loves to pull on his rotational guys. Vezenkov isn't a young inexperienced player.. he's a 28-year-old man who's the leading favorite to be Euroleague MVP. I think he clearly wants to come to the NBA, but not if it means getting 15 minutes one night, to 3 minutes the next.
Click to expand...

What do you think of him defending the 3? Like he could obviously play next to Keegan, but what about a Trey Lyles or Grant Williams sort of 4 where he would need to defend up?

If you can swing him 3/4 like you can Keegan and Barnes, then he'll have a pretty clear role to 25+ MPG with us.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Isn't that the same as the BAE? Who knows lots has changed. I think he'd still want minutes/role guarantee unless we just rolled out the Brinks truck.

If Monte can move Holmes this summer he's a miracle man.
Click to expand...

I think it's a few million lower and is limited on years isn't it? I think that had to be more about role/franchise concern than anything because why would someone like him look for money and then take less to stay? Also are we sure Monte offered full scale BAE on him? I remember reading that it's possible they could offer it to him but I wasn't paying that much attention once Sasha signed that new deal. I read the room is like 5.6 million next year so that would be doable and depending on the years more than worth his while. If he's demanding more than MLE then he's using leverage he doesn't really have.
 
SacTownKid said:
I think it's a few million lower and is limited on years isn't it? I think that had to be more about role/franchise concern than anything because why would someone like him look for money and then take less to stay? Also are we sure Monte offered full scale BAE on him? I remember reading that it's possible they could offer it to him but I wasn't paying that much attention once Sasha signed that new deal. I read the room is like 5.6 million next year so that would be doable and depending on the years more than worth his while. If he's demanding more than MLE then he's using leverage he doesn't really have.
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I think he just wants the regular MLE around 10mil per? Most guys like him get one deal if it doesn't work out so I'm sure he is trying to maximize it to a deal that will guarantee at least 20 mil. We give him the 2 year with a 3rd year option for us, same type of deal we did with Bogi, gives us a ton of flexibility if he works out. At the end of the day, it's still MLE of one sort or the other and becomes a matter of how Vivek feels about luxury tax on a playoff team.

I'd like to think if we do make the playoffs this season we won't be a poverty team moving forward. Especially if this represents a guaranteed way to acquire talent.
 
The_Jamal said:
Unfortunately this doesn't mean much when he does it for one 8-game stretch a year and then fades back into the shadows. That's just who he is.

Sasha isn't coming over for any less than the initial Bogi deal imo. 3 yr/8-10mil per season range. That would still let him go back to Euroleague in his prime if the NBA didn't work out
Click to expand...

That was called the Vlade tax, haha. Also, Bogdan was a first round pick and on the NBA radar for a long while not to mention younger. Vezenkov is looking good and if he thinks he's that valuable then maybe the best move is to find a team that also thinks that and flip him in a package deal to make it even more appetizing. I would try and comp a Vezenkov deal with what Bjelica got as a player coming over at around 28 years of age which I think was below MLE at the time for sure.
 
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