SacBee: Kings Thomas Needs To Find Balance

And 18-27 when he does play. What playoff seed will that winning percentage get you?

Kevin Love is taking massive heat in Minnesota right now, people are asking if he is so good why are they not winning?
Carmelo Anthony is taking massive heat in New York right now, people are asking if he is so good why are they not winning?
Kyrie Irving is taking massive heat in Cleveland right now, people are asking if he is so good why are they not winning?

Yet in the same situation Cousins gets absolutely zero heat despite being the "face of the franchise" and meanwhile the 2nd round draft pick making $400k gets all the blame. How on earth does that make sense?

Now I'm not saying Cousins is mainly at fault for the teams losses or even a significant part of the fault but for people to act like he doesn't even deserve a single small iota of blame is completely ridiculous.

Can you honestly say that DeMarcus Cousins makes a significant impact on the defensive end? Until you can answer that question with an affirmative YES then he can't be absolved from partial blame in the losses.

Lebron is the only player I can think of that has been able to take a team full of scrubs to the playoffs. Durant possibly could but that's about where it ends.

Love and Anthony have more talent around them than Cousins does. They don't have a Rudy Gay but they don't have a gigantic drop off in talent after their top couple players. Those teams are a little more balanced than ours is. Irving shouldn't be getting any pressure in Cleveland considering who his teammates are.

I think we're just happy to have a guy as talented as Cousins so he's going to get a pass from us most of the time. Under Malone his defense has actually improved quite a bit. Think of how much better his D would look this year if we still had Tyreke on opposing guards? Right now it's a revolving door of guards in the paint that Cousins has to deal with. He's never going to be a rim protector but he's starting to show that he's capable of using his size to his advantage so he's not just yet another revolving door on the way to the rim.

Swap a prime Chris Webber with Cousins right now and are we a better team? Yeah we'd be better but we still wouldn't be sniffing the playoffs right now. The team just needs a complete overhaul, which our front office is trying to do right now. Whether or not it'll work is up in the air but at least they're giving effort and not just riding it out year to year like we did under the Maloofs. Right now it's all you can ask for.
 
And 18-27 when he does play. What playoff seed will that winning percentage get you?

Kevin Love is taking massive heat in Minnesota right now, people are asking if he is so good why are they not winning?
Carmelo Anthony is taking massive heat in New York right now, people are asking if he is so good why are they not winning?
Kyrie Irving is taking massive heat in Cleveland right now, people are asking if he is so good why are they not winning?

Yet in the same situation Cousins gets absolutely zero heat despite being the "face of the franchise" and meanwhile the 2nd round draft pick making $400k gets all the blame. How on earth does that make sense?

Now I'm not saying Cousins is mainly at fault for the teams losses or even a significant part of the fault but for people to act like he doesn't even deserve a single small iota of blame is completely ridiculous.

Can you honestly say that DeMarcus Cousins makes a significant impact on the defensive end? Until you can answer that question with an affirmative YES then he can't be absolved from partial blame in the losses.
you don't get it, the point i was trying to make is that the team around DeMarcus is TERRIBLE! They cannot win one single freakin game without him.

yes 18-27 isn't great. but its a hell of a lot better than 0-9

and the team is actually playing .500 when Rudy Gay and DeMarcus Cousins both play....
 
To address the note of Swaze that started part of this conversation. The argument that centers around IT is multi-factorial in origin. The simplist explanation is that he is the only player whose play engenders conflict in opinion. Everybody knows Cousins is weak on defense. Everybody has a negative or two on JT. I think we are all a little hesitant about Rudy, etc. I doubt if ALL the people on this forum find much to disagree about except maybe Jimmer when he first came to the Kings. Now, people tend to have a relatively similar opinions about Jimmer. Some would like more playing time than others but most if not all like Jimmer so it doesn't get heated.

With IT, there is no such meeting of the minds. Some argue because they really think he is great which is fueled by Jerry and Grant who idolize IT. Some argue because it is in their DNA to have at least one subject to argue about every year. Last year Tyreke, this year IT. Some argue because of his play. Some argue because he takes little if any responsibility for the team's losing. At the same time he calls himself a leader.

I personally think the team will improve when he is gone.
 
Funny that you mention that the Kings are the worst team in the Western Conference and yet Demarcus Cousins their best player receives 99.5% praise on this website and is never ever held even partly accountable for all of their losses. I think that's a big reason why a guy like IT takes so much heat is because people are so infatuated with Cousins that it just doesn't make sense how he could be "the best center in the world" and yet the team be so bad. Somebody has to take the blame. In some sense it actually doesn't make much sense.................. unless you admit to yourself that while Cousins is a great player, he still has a lot of room for improvement and he's not yet a winning player that leads or really makes his teammates better.

Cousins has such an immense amount of talent (and still more potential) that I have no doubt that he will get there in being that player that is a "winner" and does make his teammates better. That's still a couple of years though and until he gets to that point he's just another immensely talented big man with even more potential that puts up huge numbers (without much defense) on bad teams. Kevin Love has the same label on him and rightly so. Until you lead, inspire, improve teammates, and ultimately win games you are not a complete player.

Bottom line is that IT gets extra blame because the average poster here isn't willing to admit that maybe just maybe Cousins isn't perfect and still has some room to grow as a player and especially a leader.

I will say this a guy like Isaiah Thomas may very well be a hindrance to Cousins' growth though and moving a shoot-first defensive liability like Thomas from the equation should actually help Cousins to continue to evolve. Right now IT is in the way and not sure he's willing to take a true backseat to Cousins long term.

I am on board with much of what you say. IT has become the "it." As in the scapegoat. Every frustrated fanbase seems to need one. With the Maloofs and GP gone, there was a scapegoat vacuum. IT is now it.
 
I am on board with much of what you say. IT has become the "it." As in the scapegoat. Every frustrated fanbase seems to need one. With the Maloofs and GP gone, there was a scapegoat vacuum. IT is now it.

isaiah thomas is not a scapegoat; he's an odd man out, and there are major distinctions between those two classifications. you'll notice that complaints about IT were far fewer when he was coming off the bench. the roster was still a mess, but it was more evenly balanced than it is now. unless thomas is returned to that sixth man's role next season, he is the most likely of the kings' so-called "big three" to be traded. demarcus cousins isn't going anywhere. rudy gay could certainly be traded next season, provided he doesn't opt out, but unless the kings acquired a legitimate top tier talent in return, they'd be right back where they started, without a robin to DMC's batman. hence thomas as "odd man out"...

here's the deal, as i've repeated ad nauseum for the past couple of months: in no version of the contemporary nba has a starting lineup that featured three 20 ppg scorers, none of whom are elite-level defenders, achieved sustainable success. there are examples of teams that tried to make it work, but none of them won much of anything (the no-defense nuggets of the early 80's springs to mind), and most were exceedingly mediocre. it's a strategy that just doesn't yield results in the long term because there's exactly one ball to shoot between three hungry scorers, and there is significant defensive neglect that naturally occurs as the struggle for shots plays out on the offensive end. with a core of cousins/gay/thomas, conditions elsewhere on the roster have to be so ideal as to be nearly unattainable...

after all, this isn't boston, where both ray allen and kevin garnett were aging and ringless veterans who accepted reduced roles in the offense to play together with paul pierce. this isn't miami, where chris bosh has accepted a reduced role in the offense to play with lebron james and dwyane wade. these veteran talents won titles through personal sacrifice and a commitment to defense...

on this kings team, demarcus cousins and rudy gay are options #1 and #2, respectively, and while cousins is proving to be a capable man defender, he is unlikely to become a towering presence on that side of the ball. likewise, gay has the length and athleticism to be a capable man defender, but he's unlikely to become a lockdown type on the wing. unfortunately, thomas lacks the physical gifts altogether to become anything more than a simple liability on the defensive end, and i have serious doubts about his ability to quiet his perpetually itchy trigger-finger long enough for the kings to build chemistry as a team, rather than a top-heavy collection of individuals...

but that does not make thomas a scapegoat. once again, he is merely an odd man out. and he needn't be traded, truth be told. if he can be re-signed to a reasonable contract, he can eventually be returned to a sixth man's role once the kings acquire a long-term solution at the starting PG position. ya know, for the good of the team, and all that...
 
I am on board with much of what you say. IT has become the "it." As in the scapegoat. Every frustrated fanbase seems to need one. With the Maloofs and GP gone, there was a scapegoat vacuum. IT is now it.
Disliking IT is one thing, but I personally am not on board with folks claiming IT is the main source of other team members problems. I know how integral the pg position is but that shifts responsibility IMO
 
Disliking IT is one thing, but I personally am not on board with folks claiming IT is the main source of other team members problems. I know how integral the pg position is but that shifts responsibility IMO

Its impossible for any player to do anything on offense if the guy with the ball never gives it up except to throw up his own shot at the rim.

Isaiah Thomas is #2 in the entire NBA in Time of Possession. He holds the ball longer per game than any player except John Wall (and per minute he holds it longer than Wall too). He has the ball ALL the time. But with the ball all the time we get a guy who is only 17th in Ast/48, and who has the 3rd worst Ast/TO ratio of the 17 guys. So you have a medicore at best passer who's assist numbers are inflated because he's completely ball dominant. And because he's completely ball dominant his teammates, no great shakes as passers themselves, rarely have an opportunity to do so to supplement things. That's how you end up at the bottom of the league in assists again (and we are 29th of 30 again).
 
Last edited:
Its impossible for any player to do anything on offense if the guy with the ball never gives it up except to throw up his own shot at the rim.

Isaiah Thomas is #2 in the entire NBA in Time of Possession. He holds the ball longer per game than any player except John Wall (and per minute he holds it longer than Wall too). He has the ball ALL the time. But with the ball all the time we get a guy who is only 17th in Ast/48, and who has the 3rd worst Ast/TO ratio of the 17 guys. So you have a medicore at best passer who's assist numbers are inflated because he's completely ball dominant. And because he's completely ball dominant his teammates, no great shakes as passers themselves, rarely have an opportunity to do so to supplement things. That's how you end up at the bottom of the league in assists again.

This is hard to rebutt
 
Don't think that means someone won't try.

I am thrilled that brick found data that supports what always seemed obvious to me. And as a lot of today was "pick on mod" day, I am always happy with the effort brick puts out on stats even if he is misleading us by cherry picking stats. :) [/end ass kissing mode]
 
How is it "ass kissing" if your accusing him of maliciously and intentionally deceiving us by cherry picking stats. Even if he is .......... or not.
 
Its impossible for any player to do anything on offense if the guy with the ball never gives it up except to throw up his own shot at the rim.

Isaiah Thomas is #2 in the entire NBA in Time of Possession. He holds the ball longer per game than any player except John Wall (and per minute he holds it longer than Wall too). He has the ball ALL the time. But with the ball all the time we get a guy who is only 17th in Ast/48, and who has the 3rd worst Ast/TO ratio of the 17 guys. So you have a medicore at best passer who's assist numbers are inflated because he's completely ball dominant. And because he's completely ball dominant his teammates, no great shakes as passers themselves, rarely have an opportunity to do so to supplement things. That's how you end up at the bottom of the league in assists again (and we are 29th of 30 again).
That doesn't have to do with coaching or composite of the team? If we placed IT on the warriors or clippers the stats be the same?
 
This is hard to rebutt
Don't think that means someone won't try.

kornheiser.jpg

"I believe I had that."
 
We don't have a lot of good players in the team. IT's mentality is "if you won't I will"

That isn't good for the most part and has to change from here on out. We know what he can do, but now teams want to know what he wants to be.

He has 28 games to prove whatever he chooses.
 
We don't have a lot of good players in the team. IT's mentality is "if you won't I will"

That isn't good for the most part and has to change from here on out. We know what he can do, but now teams want to know what he wants to be.
He's already said what he wants to be:

SLAM: Sixtieth pick in the Draft to starting point guard. What do you want your legacy as a basketball player to be? How do you want people to remember you?

IT: I want to be the best little guy to ever play.

SLAM: So you’re coming after AI?

IT: [Smiles] Yup. That’s my goal.
 
you don't get it, the point i was trying to make is that the team around DeMarcus is TERRIBLE! They cannot win one single freakin game without him.

yes 18-27 isn't great. but its a hell of a lot better than 0-9

and the team is actually playing .500 when Rudy Gay and DeMarcus Cousins both play....
Its impossible for any player to do anything on offense if the guy with the ball never gives it up except to throw up his own shot at the rim.

Isaiah Thomas is #2 in the entire NBA in Time of Possession. He holds the ball longer per game than any player except John Wall (and per minute he holds it longer than Wall too). He has the ball ALL the time. But with the ball all the time we get a guy who is only 17th in Ast/48, and who has the 3rd worst Ast/TO ratio of the 17 guys. So you have a medicore at best passer who's assist numbers are inflated because he's completely ball dominant. And because he's completely ball dominant his teammates, no great shakes as passers themselves, rarely have an opportunity to do so to supplement things. That's how you end up at the bottom of the league in assists again (and we are 29th of 30 again).
The new stats make arguing basketball so much more fun.
 
Its impossible for any player to do anything on offense if the guy with the ball never gives it up except to throw up his own shot at the rim.

Isaiah Thomas is #2 in the entire NBA in Time of Possession. He holds the ball longer per game than any player except John Wall (and per minute he holds it longer than Wall too). He has the ball ALL the time. But with the ball all the time we get a guy who is only 17th in Ast/48, and who has the 3rd worst Ast/TO ratio of the 17 guys. So you have a medicore at best passer who's assist numbers are inflated because he's completely ball dominant. And because he's completely ball dominant his teammates, no great shakes as passers themselves, rarely have an opportunity to do so to supplement things. That's how you end up at the bottom of the league in assists again (and we are 29th of 30 again).

You just broke the hearts of all the Isaiah-ites
 
From what I'm gathering, some of the same people who complained about tyreke are now huge fans of the little man?

Ah, the irony. Did Reke ever get to top 5 in time of possesion?
 
Back
Top