S&T Andre Igoudala for Jason Thompson and Marcus Thornton

[hrdboild]

Here's a way we can go after Igoudala without waiting for the Tyreke Evans contract situation to resolve itself...

Package Jason Thompson [5.25mill] and Marcus Thornton [8.05mill] and send them to Denver [13.3mill total]

That should get us close enough to an estimated $14 million starting salary.

Looking at Denver's salary cap situation, [here] they already have big commitments to Ty Lawson, JaVale McGee, and Danillo Galinari.
They also have Andre Miller at backup point, Kosta Koufas at backup center, and Wilson Chandler at SF. It seems highly unlikely that they're going to be able to bring Igoudala back with that much salary already committed to the SF position.

So, with this deal Denver gets a return for losing Igoudala and gets to plug in two productive supporting players into their rotation. Thornton could be the starting SG for them, Thompson gives them a steadying presence alongside the erratic McGee. Igoudala's defensive presence is hard to replace, but they're getting an improvement in scoring with Thornton in the lineup and their frontcourt production in the playoffs was a serious problem, so Thompson gives them a solid vet for years to come.

I don't think I have to explain why acquiring Igoudala is a good idea for us. Put simply, he's a perfect fit at SF as a defensive stopper and additional playmaker. And clearing out Thompson's long-term contract gives us the ability to give max deals to Cousins and Igoudala with enough left over for Tyreke and Jason Thompson's replacement. Salmons gets amnestied and the only clutter left on our roster is two more years of Chuck Hayes and Travis Outlaw. Not bad I think. And combining this with my Marreese Speights idea, that produces a pretty solid starting lineup with a chance to be really good in the near future I think:

T. Evans, I. Thomas, R. McCallum
B. McLemore, J. Fredette
A. Igoudala
M. Speights ​, P. Patterson
D. Cousins, C. Hayes

Add in a DeMarcus Cousins max extension and, reviewing our salary cap situation again [here], we would now have our entire starting lineup signed for the next 4 years and just enough wiggle room under the cap to find a suitable backup for the SF position and depth at C. Evans and/or Igoudala can swing to SG to open up minutes for IT or Jimmer off the bench.

 

[Section 101]

Here's a way we can go after Igoudala without waiting for the Tyreke Evans contract situation to resolve itself...

Package Jason Thompson [5.25mill] and Marcus Thornton [8.05mill] and send them to Denver [13.3mill total]

That should get us close enough to an estimated $14 million starting salary.

Looking at Denver's salary cap situation, [here] they already have big commitments to Ty Lawson, JaVale McGee, and Danillo Galinari.
They also have Andre Miller at backup point, Kosta Koufas at backup center, and Wilson Chandler at SF. It seems highly unlikely that they're going to be able to bring Igoudala back with that much salary already committed to the SF position.

So, with this deal Denver gets a return for losing Igoudala and gets to plug in two productive supporting players into their rotation. Thornton could be the starting SG for them, Thompson gives them a steadying presence alongside the erratic McGee. Igoudala's defensive presence is hard to replace, but they're getting an improvement in scoring with Thornton in the lineup and their frontcourt production in the playoffs was a serious problem, so Thompson gives them a solid vet for years to come.

I don't think I have to explain why acquiring Igoudala is a good idea for us. Put simply, he's a perfect fit at SF as a defensive stopper and additional playmaker. And clearing out Thompson's long-term contract gives us the ability to give max deals to Cousins and Igoudala with enough left over for Tyreke and Jason Thompson's replacement. Salmons gets amnestied and the only clutter left on our roster is two more years of Chuck Hayes and Travis Outlaw. Not bad I think. And combining this with my Marreese Speights idea, that produces a pretty solid starting lineup with a chance to be really good in the near future I think:

T. Evans, I. Thomas, R. McCallum
B. McLemore, J. Fredette
A. Igoudala
M. Speights ​, P. Patterson
D. Cousins, C. Hayes

Add in a DeMarcus Cousins max extension and, reviewing our salary cap situation again [here], we would now have our entire starting lineup signed for the next 4 years and just enough wiggle room under the cap to find a suitable backup for the SF position and depth at C. Evans and/or Igoudala can swing to SG to open up minutes for IT or Jimmer off the bench.

Koufas was traded draft day to make McGee the default starter. They don't want any competition against McGee.

 

[cuad]

Good trade. Forget about Speights though.

 

[hrdboild]

Koufas was traded draft day to make McGee the default starter. They don't want any competition against McGee.

Thompson wouldn't be competition for McGee, he'd come off the bench for them like he did for us. And if McGee gets into foul trouble, Thompson could play more minutes without a huge dropoff in production. I guess it depends how badly they want Mozgov back, but if Koufos is gone then their big rotation right now is McGee/Faried/Arthur. Seems like they could use the size down low even more now.

Great trade. Forget about Speights though.

Why? He's better than Thompson as a rebounder, shotblocker, and outside shooter. Can you give me a reason why you don't like Speights?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

This proposal seems too much to me like creating a problem at power forward in order to solve a problem at small forward. Especially if part of your Plan A involves getting Speights, who just made himself an unrestricted free agent: he's either going to be looking to get paid, or looking to play for a winner.

And, incidentally, your proposal doesn't entirely seem to resolve the small forward situation, either, unless you want Iguodala to play forty-eight?

 

[cuad]

Why? He's better than Thompson as a rebounder, shotblocker, and outside shooter. Can you give me a reason why you don't like Speights?

Bad reputation including defensive reputation, low FG%, more turnovers, less passing, only marginally better at best at rebounding and shooting.

And, incidentally, your proposal doesn't entirely seem to resolve the small forward situation, either, unless you want Iguodala to play forty-eight?

It doesn't have to... The team would just need a spot up shooting bench SF. Those can found in summer league and signed for cheap.

 

[hrdboild]

This proposal seems too much to me like creating a problem at power forward in order to solve a problem at small forward. Especially if part of your Plan A involves getting Speights, who just made himself an unrestricted free agent: he's either going to be looking to get paid, or looking to play for a winner.

And, incidentally, your proposal doesn't entirely seem to resolve the small forward situation, either, unless you want Iguodala to play forty-eight?

I adressed that in my post -- we would have to acquire a backup SF still. There are so many options on how we could go about doing that and which players to target that I didn't think it was appropriate to include them in this post. It's not a whole off-season plan, it's about putting together a complimentary starting 5. And I really think you guys just don't know much about Speights or you're over valuing Thompson because he's been statistically better than Jason Thompson in 4 of the last 5 years. Thompson played a lot more minutes on terrible teams which skews his counting stats up, but look at block rate, rebound rate, free throw shooting. Since not everyone likes stats, here's some video:

But frankly, it sounds like you're telling me you'd pass on Igoudala because you don't think we can afford to lose Jason Thompson which doesn't add up to me. He's had big games here and there and he's a humble, hardworking guy but he's not somebody we can't afford to lose. I can understand Denver passing on that much salary commitment, but I don't think this is a hard decision for us. Thornton is now redundant anyway and getting more expensive. Trading his contract out for Igoudala's makes us so much better that a small dropoff at the PF position is a fair trade-off. And as I explained above, I don't even think there would be a dropoff in production at PF after all.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I adressed that in my post -- we would have to acquire a backup SF still. There are so many options on how we could go about doing that and which players to target that I didn't think it was appropriate to include them in this post. It's not a whole off-season plan, it's about putting together a complimentary starting 5. And I really think you guys just don't know much about Speights...

I don't know who the "you guys" you're referring to are, since I never said anything vis-a-vis Speights versus Thompson. But, if Speights is as good as you want to believe, the Kings are not going to be able to get him. When a player Speights' age turns down guaranteed money, it means one of two things: 1) he's trying to get more money, or 2) he wants to play for a contender. And Sacramento is not a frontrunner to provide either one of those things.

 

[hrdboild]

I don't know who the "you guys" you're referring to are, since I never said anything vis-a-vis Speights versus Thompson. But, if Speights is as good as you want to believe, the Kings are not going to be able to get him. When a player Speights' age turns down guaranteed money, it means one of two things: 1) he's trying to get more money, or 2) he wants to play for a contender. And Sacramento is not a frontrunner to provide either one of those things.

He's a complimentary player I think -- probably he'll get 5-6 million a year, same as Thompson, or he'll take a smaller contract to play with a contender. He'd be signing on in Sacramento for a starting spot which he likely won't get on most teams. Also I think if he looks around the league, he probably won't find a lot of situations better for him than Evans/Igoudala/Cousins with a highly regarded rookie at SG. If Miami comes knocking it's going to be with a minimum contract. Fine if you just want a ring, but he's young enough that I think he'd take a starting gig wherever he can get it over spot minutes and a shot at a ring.

I almost didn't include Speights in this scenario either because I already made a topic about him and it clouds the issue at hand here which is the Igoudala trade. If you don't like Speights that's fine, substitute someone else you like more. Really he's only there to illustrate that Thompson isn't irreplaceable. He's added depth for us, not a key building block. Some people are slotting in Patterson as our starting PF over Thompson anyway and he's already under contract for next year. We could instead go after a shot-blocking specialist to bring off the bench. There are other options. This move covers a lot of bases for us at once though -- clears out redundant salary, fills the void at SF, and brings in a veteran defender to help change the culture.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He's a complimentary player I think -- probably he'll get 5-6 million a year, same as Thompson, or he'll take a smaller contract to play with a contender. He'd be signing on in Sacramento for a starting spot which he likely won't get on most teams. Also I think if he looks around the league, he probably won't find a lot of situations better for him than Evans/Igoudala/Cousins with a highly regarded rookie at SG. If Miami comes knocking it's going to be with a minimum contract. Fine if you just want a ring, but he's young enough that I think he'd take a starting gig wherever he can get it over spot minutes and a shot at a ring.

$5-6M? There's literally no chance he turned down $4.5M guaranteed to settle for $5M. His asking price is probably going to start at six and a half. He's mostly likely to end up in Atlanta: they've got the cap space, and they'll need a starting PF, especially since Smith is expected to leave.

 

[hrdboild]

$5-6M? There's literally no chance he turned down $4.5M guaranteed to settle for $5M. His asking price is probably going to start at six and a half. He's mostly likely to end up in Atlanta: they've got the cap space, and they'll need a starting PF, especially since Smith is expected to leave.

Literally no chance? We'll see. I think 4 years guaranteed at $5-6M per is a huge upgrade over 1 year at $4.5M.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Literally no chance? We'll see.

Literally. No. Chance.

Don't worry, I've been called a jerk and a blowhard (and other less nice names), but I've never not owned it when I was proven wrong. And I'm hardly going anywhere.

 

[hrdboild]

Literally. No. Chance.

Don't worry, I've been called a jerk and a blowhard (and other less nice names), but I've never not owned it when I was proven wrong. And I'm hardly going anywhere.

I don't think you're a jerk, I just think you're wrong. But then if there's one consistent characteristic of the collective brain trust of the NBA it's their chronic inability to make sound financial decisions. He does seem like a prime candidate to sign a contract that the team immediately regrets midway through year one. I would never say there's no chance at anything though. I'm too much of a believer in the Socratic rhetorical principle of never claiming to know more than you actually know. And almost everyone said we had no chance of getting Ben McLemore at #7, so there ya go. Never say never.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't think you're a jerk, I just think you're wrong. But then if there's one consistent characteristic of the collective brain trust of the NBA it's their chronic inability to make sound financial decisions. He does seem like a prime candidate to sign a contract that the team immediately regrets midway through year one.

I fully expect some GM to say, "This guy's Per36 numbers are great! Let's sign him for $9M!" And, then find out that he can't sustain that sort of productivity with starter's minutes.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i'm one for holding onto thompson to see if good coaching can help his consistency. hard to find size, can play & with a decent contract. we have that with JT.

we need to resolve the backcourt situation 1st n foremost. if we can't get a great SF via trade or FA, oh well. sign a cheap stop gap SF. this means we won't win as many games and increases our odds in the loaded 2014 draft.

 

[hrdboild]

i'm one for holding onto thompson to see if good coaching can help his consistency. hard to find size, can play & with a decent contract. we have that with JT.

we need to resolve the backcourt situation 1st n foremost. if we can't get a great SF via trade or FA, oh well. sign a cheap stop gap SF. this means we won't win as many games and increases our odds in the loaded 2014 draft.

Uggh. Please no. Haven't we been terrible for long enough already?

 

[Big Cuz 15]

whats another year?

 

[Glenn]

whats another year?

Credibility for a new ownership.

 

[jdbraver]

Why is AI considered a good size for the sf while Evans is too small? They r less than an inch apart.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I'd love that deal, but instead of Speights, I'd use that money to sign a back up SF and trade Jimmer for Udoh or something along those lines to get a PF.

 

[hrdboild]

Why is AI considered a good size for the sf while Evans is too small? They r less than an inch apart.

According to draft measurements, Igoudala is almost 2 inches taller than Evans (6'4" vs. 6'5.75" barefoot). But it's not really about size so much as defensive matchups. Igoudala at SF next to a big backcourt is acceptable because we retain the upper hand defensively. Tyreke at SF next to two small combo guards is an offensive-oriented lineup which gets abused on the other end of the court. Also the size advantage we get with Tyreke at PG and a full-sized SG next to him would allow us to give up a little bit of size at the SF position and get away with it. And then there's also the matter of play style. When Evans was at SF he was almost exclusively off-ball. With Tyreke at PG and Igoudala at SF, Tyreke gets a lot more opportunities to handle the ball without being the only playmakers in the lineup. And of course you can always create offense through DeMarcus as well. Outside shooting is going to be a weakness so it'd probably be a good idea to fill that PF spot with somebody who can help space the floor by hitting that free-throw line extended jumper.

 

[jdbraver]

According to draft measurements, Igoudala is almost 2 inches taller than Evans (6'4" vs. 6'5.75" barefoot). But it's not really about size so much as defensive matchups. Igoudala at SF next to a big backcourt is acceptable because we retain the upper hand defensively. Tyreke at SF next to two small combo guards is an offensive-oriented lineup which gets abused on the other end of the court. Also the size advantage we get with Tyreke at PG and a full-sized SG next to him would allow us to give up a little bit of size at the SF position and get away with it. And then there's also the matter of play style. When Evans was at SF he was almost exclusively off-ball. With Tyreke at PG and Igoudala at SF, Tyreke gets a lot more opportunities to handle the ball without being the only playmakers in the lineup. And of course you can always create offense through DeMarcus as well. Outside shooting is going to be a weakness so it'd probably be a good idea to fill that PF spot with somebody who can help space the floor by hitting that free-throw line extended jumper.

I guess I was looking at it more as Iggy replacing Reke.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I guess I was looking at it more as Iggy replacing Reke.

i wouldn't do that. as much as i like iggy, he's not worth 14m/yr. imo 10m per year at most for him. i just don't see any game changing talent in him. he's a utility guy.

cuz 14m
jt 5m
sf
mac 2.5m
reke 10m

thats already close to 30m

with iggy 14m as suggested by posters.. we'd be at 44m. salary cap is at 54m? (cpt fact correct me if im wrong)

ppat salary?
rest of roster? thats like 10m to fill out the rest of the roster with no cap flexibility once we reach the cap.

 

[cuad]

The cap is a little over 58 million.

 

[Chupacabra]

While I'm excited by the idea of a big name player like Igoudala playing for the Kings I'm equally as apprehensive. If we roll out the Evans/McLemore backcourt (I really hope we do) and Igoudala plays small forward we would probably have to start Patterson at the 4 out of necessity for floor spacing. At what point would we be able to add a shot locking presence that plays big minutes next to Cousins. I much prefer the idea of a role playing SF that can 3 and D and us getting a shot locker that can hang with PF's.

 

[kingwin]

i like the idea of getting Iggy...bt he is a unrestricted FA why do we have to give up so much? i would give them thorton and thats it. quite frankly i think that is enough and i think he would be a good fit for the nuggets(though i dont know what kind of style brian shaw will bring). he gives them some outside shooting and and would start at the SG for them; something marcus would love.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

i like the idea of getting Iggy...bt he is a unrestricted FA why do we have to give up so much? i would give them thorton and thats it.

Because he is an unrestricted free agent. And if you think we could sign Iguodala, outright, for $7.5M, I would call you... decidedly optimistic. You think he declined a $15M player option, in order to take a fifty percent pay cut for a lottery team? First of all, he wouldn't do it, but, if he would, then we wouldn't need to sign and trade for him in the first place.

Now, what works in our favor is that, if Iguodala makes it clear that he definitely doesn't plan to return to Denver, that gives us some leverage, but not nearly enough to force them to accept a sign and trade at $7.5M. Iguodala's not signing with anybody for that little. The question is, how bad does he want to leave, because that could give us a chance to shed multiple bad contracts: Iguodala for Thornton and Salmons?

 

[Glenn]

If Iggy will give up his big contract, I assume he REALLY wants to leave. Maybe he's got a man crush on PDA and wants to follow him to Sac.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If Iggy will give up his big contract, I assume he REALLY wants to leave.

You ever had a job you wanted to leave bad enough to take a 50 percent pay cut?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

... as though he believes that Iguodala turned down a $15M player option in order to accept a sign and trade for half that.

But if we clear enough cap space (amnestying Salmons would do it) we could absorb $15M in a sign-and-trade but only send Thornton back. The question on a S&T sending only Thornton is not whether we can give Iggy a big enough contract, it's whether we can convince Denver that they'd rather have Thornton than just let Iguodala walk (obviously somewhere else, because we couldn't offer $15M without the S&T).

Anyway, I can't speak for how much kingwin would be willing to pay Iguodala, but it's logically consistent to not want to give up more than Thornton in the S&T and still to give Iguodala a full-sized contract.