Glenn
Hall of Famer
Who are you?
Rudy Gay to play at the 4?
- Thread starter King Baller
- Start date
Who are you?
KingsFanGER
Starter
Rudy is a solid rebounder, has long arms and is about 6'8 - no doubt he can play PF versus most of the teams, that play without a physical dominant PF.
Sometimes it seems this Forum is obsessed with size. We played with Jt at PF, who had trouble getting 4 to 5 rebounds a night, but people worrie about our rebounding, when he is out of the lineup.
Don't you guys think, that Karl is smart enough to change the rotation when we are facing Randolph or Griffin?
On offense a player like Rudy is a much better fit next to Cousins than Jt, cause he acts basically as a stretch 4. When it comes to defense, it remains to be seen, what Rudy can do, but I guess he won't be worse than Landry or Evans.
Sometimes it seems this Forum is obsessed with size. We played with Jt at PF, who had trouble getting 4 to 5 rebounds a night, but people worrie about our rebounding, when he is out of the lineup.
Don't you guys think, that Karl is smart enough to change the rotation when we are facing Randolph or Griffin?
On offense a player like Rudy is a much better fit next to Cousins than Jt, cause he acts basically as a stretch 4. When it comes to defense, it remains to be seen, what Rudy can do, but I guess he won't be worse than Landry or Evans.
CurseOfTheSalmons
Starter
Rudy Gay's post game interview http://www.news10.net/videos/sports/2015/02/19/23659141/
If Rudy plays at the 4, I expect Stauskas to join the lineup. Collison-Stauskas-McLemore-Gay-Cousins
Maybe Stauskas and McLemore switched. This spreads the floor out a ton, and gives Cousins a lot of room to operate. I think with Nik in the lineup, we'll see more of cutting from guards. I think it'll translate into less double teams for Cuz to deal with.
Maybe Stauskas and McLemore switched. This spreads the floor out a ton, and gives Cousins a lot of room to operate. I think with Nik in the lineup, we'll see more of cutting from guards. I think it'll translate into less double teams for Cuz to deal with.
randymoss1881
Starter
Small ball= fail
I can't even think of the last team to win a ring playing like that. And no miami doesn't count since they got 3 top 10 players in the league in the worst conference.
Chupacabra
Starter
They worked for Malone before viral meningitis.
KingsFanGER
Starter
How about the Spurs playing Diaw, a groundbound 6'8 positionless player, for 35 minutes per game, while limiting Splitter to only 16 minutes per game in the NBA finals? Everything in the NBA depends on matchups. Either you dominate a certain matchup and play your style or you react to the opponent, cause he has the upper hand in a certain matchup.
Of course you can play big, like the Kings did with DMC and JT. But every team with a mobile PF, who has some skill on the offensive end, will abuse you, cause JT can't defend smaller players with a jumpshot in their arsenal and is unable to punish them on the offensive end. When smallball is common in the contemporary NBA,, you better have a strategy to stop it. Playing Rudy at the 4 versus guys like Green might be worth a try. Doesn't mean you always have to play this way.
Flopi
Bench
Look, I hate small ball as anyone else here.
But here is why I don't get the hysteria :
1) George Karl never said that he wants Gay to become a full time "power forward" or even that Gay is becoming his starting 4. He just said that he intends to play Gay at the 4 position a little more.
2) Gay is a good post up player and had good success last summer playing the 4 spot for team USA. There is no doubt in my mind that, on specific match up, it can be a valuable weapon.
3) Let's face it : nowadays, every NBA team plays small ball time to time.
4) What about waiting for the first few games coached by Karl before panicking and acting like George Karl said that he wants the Kings to become a small ball run & gun team ?
Livinthedream
All-Star
Doesn't Draymond Green essentially play PF? If you're going for the uptempo, fast paced GSW style, this makes sense. Rudy is pretty much a post up player and if you have him playing the wing position and the ball stops in his hands so he can go one on one, you can't get ball movement. If you play Collison, Nik, Ben, Gay and Cousins, you get Gay out of the way and you get ball movement.
Not saying I like that lineup or imitating GSw, but I can see the logic.
I offer no solutions for the defensive side of the ball though.
Not saying I like that lineup or imitating GSw, but I can see the logic.
I offer no solutions for the defensive side of the ball though.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I'm not as worried about this just yet.
Multiple reports suggest that the Kings are actively looking for a starting power forward.
If Rudy Gay is our small ball four, I can live with that. A better option than Williams, certainly.
Multiple reports suggest that the Kings are actively looking for a starting power forward.
If Rudy Gay is our small ball four, I can live with that. A better option than Williams, certainly.
Here is the list of starting PF's in the league:
Dirk, Faried, Draymond Green, D-Mo, Griffin, Boozer, Z-Bo, Thad Young, AD, Ibaka, Morris, Aldridge, Duncan and Favors in the west.
Milsap, Sullinger, KG, Marvin Williams, Gasol, Love, Monroe, West, Bosh, Bucks guy (Giannis?), Melo, Frye/Harris, 76ers guy (Mbah a Moute?), Amir Johnson and Nene in the east.
out of all of this 29 guys, ask yourself who has the better match up- us or the rivals. keep in mind that one of the main things Rudy does well is posting up and he can't post up most of this guys.
moreover guys like Nene, Z-bo, Aldridge and west will crash him (one of the reason LBJ stopped playing PF is that it is very tiring to go against this guys on defense- and Rudy is not even close in strength to Lebron or Melo).
Really the only guys I can see Rudy has an advantage on in this list (match up wise) are:
D-Mo, Boozer, Thad Young, KG, Marvin and Mbah a Moute.
while in the SF position he is a problem for a lot of weaker guys.
Dirk, Faried, Draymond Green, D-Mo, Griffin, Boozer, Z-Bo, Thad Young, AD, Ibaka, Morris, Aldridge, Duncan and Favors in the west.
Milsap, Sullinger, KG, Marvin Williams, Gasol, Love, Monroe, West, Bosh, Bucks guy (Giannis?), Melo, Frye/Harris, 76ers guy (Mbah a Moute?), Amir Johnson and Nene in the east.
out of all of this 29 guys, ask yourself who has the better match up- us or the rivals. keep in mind that one of the main things Rudy does well is posting up and he can't post up most of this guys.
moreover guys like Nene, Z-bo, Aldridge and west will crash him (one of the reason LBJ stopped playing PF is that it is very tiring to go against this guys on defense- and Rudy is not even close in strength to Lebron or Melo).
Really the only guys I can see Rudy has an advantage on in this list (match up wise) are:
D-Mo, Boozer, Thad Young, KG, Marvin and Mbah a Moute.
while in the SF position he is a problem for a lot of weaker guys.
CurseOfTheSalmons
Starter
Jason JonesVerified account @mr_jasonjones
Gay said Karl doesn't want him exclusively at PF, "He wants Rudy Gay to play the 4, he doesn't want Rudy Gay to be a 4."
Let's breathe now.
Gay said Karl doesn't want him exclusively at PF, "He wants Rudy Gay to play the 4, he doesn't want Rudy Gay to be a 4."
Let's breathe now.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Oh........wait.....what?
Oh, I think he will likely be different here than other places due to personnel, etc., but he has stated that he is pushing for a faster offense and guys were turning the ball over in practice as they were going faster than they ever have this year, or something to that effect. I was just commenting that his initial push offensively seems to be towards speed and offensive pressure, which sounds a lot more like Denver Karl.
But I also stated that "we will see where this all leads soon enough" - I wasn't drawing any hard and fast conclusions yet. Just my initial reaction to his statements after the first practice.
I am buoyed by his statements on maximizing DMC's talent on the court and am eager to see what he comes up with to improve this team. His statement that defense was something that really needed work was very good to hear.
Livinthedream
All-Star
On offense, Rudy would need to face up or stretch the bigger 4's.
The theory being, if you're good enough at the style you play, you force the other team to adjust to you. Not the other way. So the question could become what does the other teams do to deal with Rudy.
Whether we're a grind it out team or run and gun, I just want the other team to adjust to what we do. I don't like starting JT some games and DWill others.
Huh? You talking to me. Pass the popcorn.
I don't see an issue at all. DC-Ben-Omri-Rudy-Cuz is a lineup we already should be playing 10 MPG or so. It's a good change of pace lineup that can certainly be effective at different times in the game, especially late in games. Not like Karl is saying "Rudy is our new 30+MPG starting PF!"
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
The additional point to consider, is that he hasn't had that much success in matchups against the best group of SF's. So in that regard, against those teams, it could definitely be an advantage at times to make their 4 matchup on him.
Also, Karl likes to look for the 3 point shot a lot. He probably realizes that always having Rudy in a position to hoist a lot of 3's is not the best way to use his skillset. He needs to find ways to get him inside more. One way is matching up against some 4's
Jerichoholic
Bench
It's all about match-ups and dictating the pace, instead of trying to only point out potential problems this can cause we should also be looking potential advantages. Of course Gay will have problems guarding and posting up against power forwards like Randolph, Griffin, and Ibaka, but most of those other guys don't bother me too much. On the other side how are those big guys going to stop the speed and athleticism of Gay, not to mention that he is also a great mid-range jump shooter. The rebounding doesn't bother me either, it's not like Thompson is a great rebounder.
It's also not a permanent thing, it's not like he is always going to play power forward, all depends on the match-ups. I have no problems with this as long as Gay isn't asked to change his game, different position, but same style of play, that's the advantage. The instant a player is asked to change is when confusion starts.
It's also not a permanent thing, it's not like he is always going to play power forward, all depends on the match-ups. I have no problems with this as long as Gay isn't asked to change his game, different position, but same style of play, that's the advantage. The instant a player is asked to change is when confusion starts.
SA, Miami, OKC finished games with Westy-Jackson/Martin-Shooter-Durant-Ibaka the past few years. ATL is destroying everyone with a "small" front-court of Millsap and Horford. GS starts a "SF" Draymond Green at PF and is destroying everyone in the West. Houston has gone all out for floor spacing and basically operates with just one big most of the time and has been a top team in the NBA.
Really, other than Memphis and Chicago, pretty much every top team in the NBA the past 5 seasons plays "small" a lot of the time
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BenThePizzaGuy
G-League
If this occurs and occurs often, the George Karl honeymoon period will end very soon.
Rudy Gay is a chemistry killer at his natural 3 position, but at the 4, this team will get destroyed by teams who actually play players in their correct positions.
Rudy Gay is a chemistry killer at his natural 3 position, but at the 4, this team will get destroyed by teams who actually play players in their correct positions.
beb0p
Starter
I highlighted the key words above because it sounds like people are completely misunderstanding what was said. From the sound of it, Gay is still the SF, just that he will be moved to PF occassiononally when we go small. This is nothing new, Malone used Gay at PF sometimes. Heck, Adelman used Hedo as a 4. Heck, many SFs play the 4 sometimes including Durrant and James. This isn't new, or junkball, or out of the box. This is just a coach switching things up. He is most likely referring to the second unit. Which is fine. Karl thinks we can play Gay at the 4 more, he didn't say he is going to play Gay as a full time 4!
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BenThePizzaGuy
G-League
Add Indiana to that list. They play big with Hibbert and West.
ninjabiscuit
Bench
rexb_kings
Bench
Kings need a stretch 4 for spacing and maximize Cousins in the post. Gay at 4 might work on offense. Not sure on defense though. It kind of worked for the Warriors with Draymond Green.
ForlornKing
Starter
I actually like Gay at the 4 for stretches.....
Obviously not to make him a full time 4 no way
Obviously not to make him a full time 4 no way
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I do to. Also, after listening to the post practice interview with Karl, I'll just keep my mouth shut about what he says in the next few days. Now that doesn't mean I won't type.
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