Rudy Gay to play at the 4?

What kind of PF do you guys want then? You will be sorely disappointed if you are expecting a 1990's bruiser type. Karl values skill and shooting. His style is all about floor spacing, drive and kick action. EVERYONE is doing it, San Antonio, Golden State, Houston, Atlanta, Cleveland. The only one that isn't is Memphis who are like and NBA relic. Can you guys give some names of players you guys would like starting at the 4 that are realistic options? Meaning they fit Karl's system and your criteria as well and are realistic targets via trade or free agency.

George Karl was a dangerous coach for a long time, and one thing he did NOT do was employ pussies at PF. His PFs included Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker, Tyrone Hill, Kenyon Martin, and more recently Kenneth Faried. It remains to be seen if he's grown as stupid as his former 3rd lieutenant and thinks Mike D'Antoni actually ever won anything in this league.
 
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What if the NBA has changed since a few years ago?
Have you guys actually challenged your tightly-held beliefs, or are you so certain you are right then you can just call people names who believe things may be different now?

What if the 3-ptr, stretch-4's and flopping defense has so radically changed the NBA landscape, that this improbable-to-get "big man" defensive 4 is just not going to be a realistic acquisition for this Kings team next year?

Unless you guys suggest who is out there that the Kings can realistically get (with their personnel/financial/contract limitations) that is a clear upgrade over what Rudy would get you at the 4 (and has already shown how it could work this year), I just think it's very dangerous to call most teams in the NBA "stupid" for going a stretch 4 (*****) route.
 
What if the NBA has changed since a few years ago?
Have you guys actually challenged your tightly-held beliefs, or are you so certain you are right then you can just call people names who believe things may be different now?

What if the 3-ptr, stretch-4's and flopping defense has so radically changed the NBA landscape, that this improbable-to-get "big man" defensive 4 is just not going to be a realistic acquisition for this Kings team next year?

Unless you guys suggest who is out there that the Kings can realistically get (with their personnel/financial/contract limitations) that is a clear upgrade over what Rudy would get you at the 4 (and has already shown how it could work this year), I just think it's very dangerous to call most teams in the NBA "stupid" for going a stretch 4 (*****) route.

I think its very stupid to accuse most teams in the NBA of going a wussy 4 route at all, because the simple fact of the matter is its not true.

Its the normal nonsense. Top team has success, everybody and their numbnuts casual fan brother run around screaming about how the game has suddenly changed and EVERYBODY is going to play like Team X. Except that's not how it works. Stretch 4s are standard personnel to have on a roster anymore, but in the power conference few teams use them as starters. Any guard can stretch the floor, only the big hairy smelly guys can clean the glass and protect the middle.
 
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give me my bruiser and with him next to boogie ill take my chances anyday. NBA landscape be damed. We'd dominate

Ryan Anderson at the 4 would do us less good then having a defensive oriented PF next to Boogie.
 
Look guys I love the concept of putting another defensive first guy next to Cousins and fullfilling the Malone style we saw in the beginning of the season, but we saw Karl bench a prototypical bruiser in JT to start Rudy at the 4, that should be all you need to know. We already have 12 million+ invested in bruiser PF's(one that is undersized but Landry is a bruiser in every sense). I cannot see us going after another middling PF unless at least one of those guys is gone, and trading those contracts is no easy feat as we have learned.
 
i don't particularly care for a 'stretch' 3 point shooting 4. the ideal one is one that can hit the open shot, defend and move w/o the ball when defenses focus on cuz.
 
i don't particularly care for a 'stretch' 3 point shooting 4. the ideal one is one that can hit the open shot, defend and move w/o the ball when defenses focus on cuz.
Our problem is that we already have a good chunk of our cap space towards role player PF's, with what JT and Landry earn, team building wise you would expect one of them to fit in as a competent starter. I cannot see how we can justify signing another mid tier PF with JT and Landry in the books. One of them must go, and our best shot at upgrading PF will be from the draft or trade.
 
Our problem is that we already have a good chunk of our cap space towards role player PF's, with what JT and Landry earn, team building wise you would expect one of them to fit in as a competent starter. I cannot see how we can justify signing another mid tier PF with JT and Landry in the books. One of them must go, and our best shot at upgrading PF will be from the draft or trade.

Would I trade Landry for a stretch 4? You bet.

Would I add someone like Jeff green and tie up yet more dollars at pf? No.

A stretch 4 is a nice commodity off the bench. It isn't a necessity in your starting lineup.
 
What if the NBA has changed since a few years ago?
Have you guys actually challenged your tightly-held beliefs, or are you so certain you are right then you can just call people names who believe things may be different now?

What if the 3-ptr, stretch-4's and flopping defense has so radically changed the NBA landscape, that this improbable-to-get "big man" defensive 4 is just not going to be a realistic acquisition for this Kings team next year?

Unless you guys suggest who is out there that the Kings can realistically get (with their personnel/financial/contract limitations) that is a clear upgrade over what Rudy would get you at the 4 (and has already shown how it could work this year), I just think it's very dangerous to call most teams in the NBA "stupid" for going a stretch 4 (*****) route.

What kind of PF do you guys want then? You will be sorely disappointed if you are expecting a 1990's bruiser type. Karl values skill and shooting. His style is all about floor spacing, drive and kick action. EVERYONE is doing it, San Antonio, Golden State, Houston, Atlanta, Cleveland. The only one that isn't is Memphis who are like and NBA relic. Can you guys give some names of players you guys would like starting at the 4 that are realistic options? Meaning they fit Karl's system and your criteria as well and are realistic targets via trade or free agency.

Taj Gibson.

I don't know how many times I have to say it. He is very much a realistic option. His contract is easy to move and we'll have enough cap space to where we can send little salary back to Chicago if we/they want. They also own our pick so it makes it that much easier to deal with them as we can get more creative. I've given countless of offers on this board for him, but people still act like there is nobody feasible to be had.

Gibson is a very good, all-around defender. He's somebody who will instantly help our interior defense, and not miss rotations like we've come accustomed to with Thompson. His post defense is good and he can help Cousins protect the rim. Our frontcourt defense would be very solid with Cousins and Gibson (not to mention Thompson's a decent defender coming off the bench, and if we take Cauley-Stein with the pick, you have two young, defensive stalwarts waiting in the wings (Cauley-Stein & Moreland). How about that for your frontcourt defense and rim protection?

Although Gibson has had some injuries this season that have caused his efficiency to go down, it shouldn't be anything he can't fully recover from in the offseason (similar to Cousins). For the most part, Gibson is pretty durable. He's plays in 91% of his games. That's 75 games a season. Some will argue that he's old, well first off, I would say we need old players. We need vets who are consistent and can get the job done. Besides Gibson's 30 is not equivalent to most NBA players. First off, he came into the league at 24. He's not one of these players who has been logging NBA minutes since he was 19 years old. In fact, Cousins has played more NBA regular season minutess than Gibson. Gibson is a relatively well preserved 30 year old. Besides, we're not locked into a 5 year contract with him. We would only have him for 2 more years. There's not doubt in my mind Gibson will be able to provide starter quality minutes during those two years.

Some like to say that he's too short/too small and won't pass the Randolph test. Well, to those people I would say Gibson measured 6'8.5" without shoes at the combine. Cousins measured 6'9.5" without shoes at the combine. So are you saying that Gibson (standing 1 inch shorter than our fully sized center) is not tall enough to play PF? Griffin also measured 6'8.5" without shoes. His height doesn't seem to be an issue. But what about Gibson's length? Gibson has a 7'4" wingspan and 9'1" standing reach. Griffin has a 6'11" wingspan and 8'9" standing reach. So Griffin and Gibson are the same height, but Gibson has 5 inches on him in wingspan and 4 inches on him in standing reach. He definitely has the height and length to play PF.

The only big question has been his weight and strength. He's sitting around 225-230 lbs right now. That's not bad, but not elite. You would think he would be susceptible to very strong, bruiser PFs (like Randolph). However, the stats seemed to show the opposite. Gibson and Randolph have matched up 9 times in their careers. During those matchups, Randolph averages only 14.6 PPG on 40% shooting. And if you disegard Gibson's rookie season when he was still trying to get acclimated to the NBA, it gets even worse for Randolph (11.7 PPG on 34% shooting). It appears Gibson has Randolph figured out, and he doesn't let his lack of lbs get in the way.

As for the boards, he's a solid rebounder. He's not DeAndre Jordan, but he's about on the same level as Thompson (both average just over 9 boards for their career per36). Paired with an elite rebounding big man (Cousins) and a strong rebounding SF (Gay), the Kings should be a good rebounding team.

Offensively, Gibson has a nice midrange jumper that he can use to help spread the floor. He doesn't have 3pt range, but he shoots a high percentage with the shots he does take. Over the past 2 seasons, he's a 40% shooter from 16ft to within the 3pt line (209 shots taken) and he shoots 38% from 10ft to 16ft (278 shots taken). If the defense leaves him open, he'll be able to knock it down. Also in regards to his shooting, his hot zones fit very well with Cousins' game. He seems to be more comfortable knocking down shots on the right side of the court. So when Cousins is posting on the left, Gibson can remain in a comfortable spot to knock down a shot. With three consistent 3pt shooters at PG, SG, & SF. There should be enough spacing for the team to operate.

Again, Gibson would be a good fit for this team and with Mirotic looking like he is more than capable of handling the backup PF duties, the Bulls won't be losing a lot of production. In the meantime, they can bring talent back at a position of need or grab a pick to help them in the future.
 
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Look guys I love the concept of putting another defensive first guy next to Cousins and fullfilling the Malone style we saw in the beginning of the season, but we saw Karl bench a prototypical bruiser in JT to start Rudy at the 4, that should be all you need to know. We already have 12 million+ invested in bruiser PF's(one that is undersized but Landry is a bruiser in every sense). I cannot see us going after another middling PF unless at least one of those guys is gone, and trading those contracts is no easy feat as we have learned.

Part of me thinks it's just Karl experimenting with different lineups. Another part of me thinks that Karl would prefer to have a somewhat serviceable backup C to bring off the bench in case of foul trouble. Starting both Thompson and Cousins at the same time can leave you vulnerable to foul trouble and thus having to go small (unless you want the talented Ryan Hollins out there).

If you bring in a guy who fits the defensive description, I really have a hard time seeing Karl going out of his way to not start him alongside Cousins. Karl should know by now that if he wants to be successful then he should fit a system to the personnel he has (not the other way around).If we acquire the specific player, problem solved

When your star C is prone to fouls and technicals and the only other viable C option on your team is your starting PF, does it make sense to possibly pull that player from the starting unit to 'play it safer?' Maybe, maybe not. Now if we had a legit backup C and Karl still pulled Thompson from the starting lineup, then I start to worry...

If we trade for Gibson and draft Cauley-Stein, we all of a sudden have a very strong defensive frontcourt (Cousins, Gibson, Thompson, Cauley-Stein, Moreland)
 
give me my bruiser and with him next to boogie ill take my chances anyday. NBA landscape be damed. We'd dominate

Ryan Anderson at the 4 would do us less good then having a defensive oriented PF next to Boogie.


In a perfect world you have both. I seem to recall both the Lakers and San Antonio finding quite a bit of success with players like Ryan Anderson in the last 15 years or so. People act like stretch 4's are a new thing, they aren't. Put a bruiser next to Cuz that causes Cuz to see packed paint everywhere he looks and I'm pretty sure Cuz will not be so appreciative.
 
Would I trade Landry for a stretch 4? You bet.

Would I add someone like Jeff green and tie up yet more dollars at pf? No.

A stretch 4 is a nice commodity off the bench. It isn't a necessity in your starting lineup.

no kidding. if anything we need to dump landry onto a team that needs him and clear some cap space.

gerbil f***** up by signing him to a long term contract. he is supposedly a salary cap guru but gave away talent with nothing to show for it.
 
In a perfect world you have both. I seem to recall both the Lakers and San Antonio finding quite a bit of success with players like Ryan Anderson in the last 15 years or so. People act like stretch 4's are a new thing, they aren't. Put a bruiser next to Cuz that causes Cuz to see packed paint everywhere he looks and I'm pretty sure Cuz will not be so appreciative.

I forget, which one of gasol and Bynum was the stretch 4?
 
I forget, which one of gasol and Bynum was the stretch 4?

Odom was. Who was a major part of that tandem. And Gasol did quite a bit of damage in the pick and pop himself.

And before that, you know the Shaq days who was a fairly similar player to Cousins it was a guy named Robert Horry. Maybe you've heard of him.
 
Odom was. Who was a major part of that tandem. And Gasol did quite a bit of damage in the pick and pop himself.

And before that, you know the Shaq days who was a fairly similar player to Cousins it was a guy named Robert Horry. Maybe you've heard of him.

Oh that odom. Who hit less than half a 3 a game in the playoffs at 22%. Yes, his stretch shooting was a vital piece to them winning.

Horry at least qualified as a pf who stretched the floor with the 3 but he was also a great defender. I would have no problem with a horry but I repeat it's a luxury not a necessity.
 
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