Rondo suspension
- Thread starter upinsmoke
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Yep. Check Twitter. Vlade and Vivek have issued official statements, Vlade called Kennedy and Rondo issued a statement.
Livinthedream
All-Star
My 2 cents. I agree he probably knew. It also appears that there is some history for both player and ref to seemed to escalate things very quickly.
I'll say this. When you're angry with someone, short of punching them, the biggest weapon is to throw the most hurtful language you can find. So in that sense, the words used don't necessarily reflect the person's beliefs. It may or may not. What it does show is that the word is in his vocabulary, which is something he needs to get rid of.
As far as the suspension, I get it. Squash this kind of stuff right now so no one gets comfortable doing it. Not a good look for the league.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
SCKingsfan
Bench
This is precisely what I was thinking--saying something because you know it will really hurt. Doesn't condone it in any way, in fact it remains reflective of the expressor's integrity (or lack thereof) but may not be a full reflection of deeper held beliefs.
John Galt
Starter
Being "true" makes it worse - that's what I meant. Even the "true" comments i.e. the most hateful/hurtful - still were not enough to make my parents gasp and demand redress.
same page..
SacKings384
Starter
Fair enough. I wish Rondo was a bit more... forthcoming in his apology. But I understand that Rondo has a lot of social anxieties and stuff. A short tweet doesn't imply sincerity imo. Hopefully he is a bit more upfront in the coming days.
Gotcha. Same page indeed!
Both are insulting. If slur / not a slur is the line in the sand where one is bad but the other one is sky is falling... things are out of whack.
Fair enough; I respect your being consistent on the matter. I happen to feel that the line is reasonable where it is, but YMMV.
itzcoatl
Bench
Disagree. The slur that Rondo used targets an entire group of people based purely on their sexual orientation. Part of what makes our country great is judging people on their character, not on stereotypes. This type of slur is antithetical to everything the United States stands for. Players are professionals and this unprofessional conduct. There are fans out there of Mr. Kennedy's orientation, and perhaps young men and women learning to love the game.
I don't think he was saying that we shouldn't be harsh on the use of "******." Just that we should also be harsh about the use of "mother****er," too.
itzcoatl
Bench
Yeah, I got that. My point, perhaps not well made, is that Mother f'er does't target a group of people the same way the other word does.
One word is simply crude. The other excludes and is derogatory toward an entire group of people.
edit: they're not really on the same level of inappropriate-ness, IMO.
:: shrugs ::
I don't really agree with @andjel, but it's not an unreasonable position to take. One could also point out that, of the two, only one of them was created with the intention of being offensive, and it's not the one that people take the most offense to.
Of course, I'm a sailor: for me, **** isn't even a word, so much as punctuation.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well that sincerity stuff is rarely "sincere" anyway.
He and this guy have a history, he was pissed off, and he meant to say exactly what he said. Now he wouldn't have if he were not pissed, but often the apologies issues are kind of silly "oh I am so so sorry..." yeah right. No you're not. Often you probably are still thinking "**** him". Or at least I would be.
On the other hand what Rondo posted I can at least believe as honest. He may wish Bill Kennedy would drop a toaster in his bathtub tomorrow, but he may not have wanted that to extend to the gay community in general, or to embarrass the organization etc. That I can buy in a way I rarely do the canned repentances of ever doing anything offensive ever.
Sac.1989
Starter
Yep. Now there is added context to the 'story'
Rondo targeted exactly one person with that slur.
I can understand if members of the same community could feel upset, but I do not believe that Rondo would address or treat some random Jane or Joe that happened to be gay the same way.
This was personal insult, done in a very heated moment, not done during some debate.
Variant
Starter
I see it as, yeah, the word was directed at an individual, but since you're saying it's 'insulting' to be compared to the group the word represents, you're denigrating the entire group as a result.
Or something like that.
While what Rondo did was stupid and I have no issue with the suspension based solely on that (even if Rondo had only cursed out the official without using a 'slur' I'd be fine with it based on the idiocy alone), I'm always amazed at how certain things (usually relatively small things like words) can stir up an angry mob acting like this is akin to the original sin or something.
Or something like that.
While what Rondo did was stupid and I have no issue with the suspension based solely on that (even if Rondo had only cursed out the official without using a 'slur' I'd be fine with it based on the idiocy alone), I'm always amazed at how certain things (usually relatively small things like words) can stir up an angry mob acting like this is akin to the original sin or something.
and vulture swoops in
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...emarcus-cousins--all-star-vote-222155888.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...emarcus-cousins--all-star-vote-222155888.html
Variant
Starter
I honestly feel the judgement being hurled at Rondo over this is far worse than the assumed meaning being placed on what he said.
Dude isn't a villain. He said something offensive in the heat of the moment. Give him his lumps and move on.
Kelly Dwyer is the reason I stopped reading Ball Don't Lie.
Dude isn't a villain. He said something offensive in the heat of the moment. Give him his lumps and move on.
Kelly Dwyer is the reason I stopped reading Ball Don't Lie.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
gunks
Hall of Famer
Next time Rondo, or any other King is mad at a ref, they should call them a Dwyer.
It's just as venomous a word, but you aren't really hurting a group of people by saying it.
Example:
"That was a ******* foul you ***** *** Dwyer!"
See? The point is made. I felt dirty just typing that. Apologies to the mods if that was out of line!
Edit:
Apparently the ASLTTLLCM (association of semi literate trolls that look like child molesters) considers "Dwyer" to be a hateful slur. My bad!
gil renard
Bench
It was pretty widely known that Kennedy is gay:
"Bill Kennedy, the NBA referee who was on the receiving end of a torrent of homophobic slurs from Rajon Rondo, has revealed he is gay. The NBA suspended Rondo for one-game for directing a gay slur at Kennedy in Mexico earlier this month. Here is some interesting context for that from 2010.
Disgraced former NBA referee Tim Donaghy alleged in a 2010 interview that Kennedy was gay and “had no love for Doc Rivers and the Boston Celtics,” because of a comment Rivers allegedly made about Kennedy’s sexual orientation. Rondo, obviously was a member of that Celtics team.
"That’s a difficult question for me to answer because I certainly don’t want to offend anybody… I’m just gonna come out and say it like it is. It’s no secret on the staff that Bill Kennedy is a homosexual… I don’t have any ill will towards gays or lesbians, but it was no secret that he’s a homosexual. It was known around the league, it was obvious during a game Doc Rivers questioned his sexual orientation and I think that has stuck with Kennedy over the years and he has no love for Doc Rivers and the Boston Celtics."
Donaghy discussing what was “known around the league” is hardly rock solid sourcing. There’s no evidence Rivers directed an untoward comment to Kennedy about his sexual orientation. There’s no evidence Kennedy displayed a particular bias against the Celtics, though seasoned Celtics fans might quibble.
However, Rivers and Kennedy did have a notable feud that had already been publicly reported. Both were fined for their actions toward each other during a game in 2009."
This whole thing is beyond stupid. Yeah I wish Rondo had just kept his mouth shut but Bill Kennedy deciding to publicly come out now framed this regrettable but minor situation in a way that puts him above reproach and transfers all responsibility to the player who reacted to his abuse of authority. Wake up man! Rondo was pissed off at you because you targeted him for ejection. That has nothing to do with your sexual orientation. You really think Rondo was trying to humiliate you for being gay? Maybe that's because you brought some prior bias against Rondo into this game - a bias which caused you to overreact and throw him out of the game before he even said anything. Maybe it was his close relationship with Doc Rivers? The basketball related issue here as far as I'm concerned is Bill Kennedy's ability to fairly call the game. If he's carrying some kind of personal vendetta which affects his ability to remain impartial that is a matter worthy of investigation. And that relates only to Bill Kennedy the referee, not any other category of human being he may choose to identify with. (I'd argue the NBA should be more concerned with Bill Kennedy the referee than Bill Kennedy the gay man, but I suppose advertising represents the vast majority of their profit margin so it's naive to think what happens on the court takes precedent).
But you can forget any honest attempt to answer that question now. The 'G' word has been broached so now all attention is going to go there. The commissioner issues a statement of support, Vlade Divac issues a statement of support. The fairness of the call is irrelevant now because we supposedly need to set an example for the kids? Forgive me while I find a trash can to vomit into. Zero kids on zero basketball courts are going to be moved by these statements to eliminate that word from their vocabularies. It's just an excuse for moralists to cluck their tongues, point fingers. and pat themselves on the back. I'm happy for Bill Kennedy that he feels he can set a positive example but the timing of this feels crass and opportunistic and unnecessarily vindictive. There's a positive way to send that message without packaging a convenient villain. This is exactly the kind of lowest common denominator reporting that led to Rondo being labeled as a team cancer and the worst signing of the off-season in the first place. People believe what they want to believe. The truth is rarely that cut and dry.
You know what else? I get very offended when people call me white boy. I don't identify anybody on the basis of their race and hate when people do it to me. That's not publicly accecpted as an ethnic slur but to me it feels belittling and ignorant. I'm so many other things which I choose to be, why single me out for categorization in the most meaningless way possible? In fact, I'd rather be called pretty much anything else, even the word Rondo used. I'm not expecting a public apology or a parade any time soon nor do I feel that I need one. I only point it out because it's completely arbitrary that certain words draw the ire of public opinion and others don't. The only way you change people's opinions is through empathy and shared experience. Like a lot of people my age I used to be ignorant in my use of the word gay as a generic pejorative. In certain areas that particular slang usage is as common as the word 'cool'. Kids don't think about what words mean, they just say them cause other kids are saying them. Talking to friends made me understand why they found it offensive and I made the decision to change -- not because some cultural arbiter told me it was the "right thing to do" but because I recognize the humanity in other people and the importance of treating all people with respect. The political correctness dog and pony show, on the other hand, accomplishes nothing. I'm sickened that our culture still puts people in a situation where they feel that they need to hide their sexuality for employment purposes and equally sickened that the kangaroo court of public opinion leaps to convict and vilify without consideration for context or provocation. I refuse to play along.
But you can forget any honest attempt to answer that question now. The 'G' word has been broached so now all attention is going to go there. The commissioner issues a statement of support, Vlade Divac issues a statement of support. The fairness of the call is irrelevant now because we supposedly need to set an example for the kids? Forgive me while I find a trash can to vomit into. Zero kids on zero basketball courts are going to be moved by these statements to eliminate that word from their vocabularies. It's just an excuse for moralists to cluck their tongues, point fingers. and pat themselves on the back. I'm happy for Bill Kennedy that he feels he can set a positive example but the timing of this feels crass and opportunistic and unnecessarily vindictive. There's a positive way to send that message without packaging a convenient villain. This is exactly the kind of lowest common denominator reporting that led to Rondo being labeled as a team cancer and the worst signing of the off-season in the first place. People believe what they want to believe. The truth is rarely that cut and dry.
You know what else? I get very offended when people call me white boy. I don't identify anybody on the basis of their race and hate when people do it to me. That's not publicly accecpted as an ethnic slur but to me it feels belittling and ignorant. I'm so many other things which I choose to be, why single me out for categorization in the most meaningless way possible? In fact, I'd rather be called pretty much anything else, even the word Rondo used. I'm not expecting a public apology or a parade any time soon nor do I feel that I need one. I only point it out because it's completely arbitrary that certain words draw the ire of public opinion and others don't. The only way you change people's opinions is through empathy and shared experience. Like a lot of people my age I used to be ignorant in my use of the word gay as a generic pejorative. In certain areas that particular slang usage is as common as the word 'cool'. Kids don't think about what words mean, they just say them cause other kids are saying them. Talking to friends made me understand why they found it offensive and I made the decision to change -- not because some cultural arbiter told me it was the "right thing to do" but because I recognize the humanity in other people and the importance of treating all people with respect. The political correctness dog and pony show, on the other hand, accomplishes nothing. I'm sickened that our culture still puts people in a situation where they feel that they need to hide their sexuality for employment purposes and equally sickened that the kangaroo court of public opinion leaps to convict and vilify without consideration for context or provocation. I refuse to play along.
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That's all well, and to the good, but it's also important to recognize that that "cultural arbiter" exists because there is a significant number of people who either can't or won't recognize the humanity in other people and the importance of treating all people with respect. We can't count on everybody having friends willing to educate them, so where does that leave us? "Hey, let's not subject people to public scorn and derision for their insensitive and/or bigoted beliefs, and eventually they'll all stop being ignorant of their own recognizance." We've tried that; it didn't work out that great.
I don't think anyone has ever changed their opinion because of public scorn and derision. Is it the appearance of change that we're interested in or actual meaningful change? And furthermore, whatever the intentions may have been, I think the culture of political correctness that started with my generation has unfortunately produced a new culture of public shaming whereby a whole generation of kids has learned primarily through positive and negative reinforcement which words will get them in trouble and which are culturally acceptable. The absolute glee with which they tear into their peers for violating the societal norms makes me question whether it's only this social punishment that they understand or the tolerance which is its antecedent. Maybe it's time for a different approach?
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