Ron Artest Trade Candidates:::

Warhawk

Warhawk

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#121
#121
DirkAB said:
Don't know about what? I said if you are against this trade then you should never ***** about the Kings bad defense again, not that if we got him the Kings would never play bad defense again. Of course the Kings will still have holes in there defense, but aside from getting Shaq or Wallace this is the biggest step towards a good defense the Kings could ever take.
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You act like Artest is the only guy in the league who can play defense. Please.

It is possibly "the biggest step towards a good defense the Kings could ever take", but it could also doom the next few years if he continues to be the TO of basketball. And ever is a pretty long time. You don't think there could be another young guy out there who could be a better defender in a year or two? Artest is now officially "THE BEST DEFENDER OF ALL TIME"?

I think a Bowen or AK-47 or similar defender would help us out as well. Even Garcia is showing flashes (after only 20 games as a rook) that he could develop into something special defensively in a few years. It's not Peja for Artest or the team is doomed forever, you know. There are a lot of players out there - I don't want this particular one on the Kings.
 
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DirkAB

Guest
#122
#122
KingKong said:
What I meant was that I don't think getting Artest will suddenly transform us into a tough team, it will help, but we will still be soft in other areas. No harm done.
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I agree, I think w/Artest we would be one piece away from being a very good defensive team. We would need a tough big guy gaurd the basket and to take over at starting PF or C. I think you could get away with having 2 softer players in the starting lineup if they are surrounded by great defenders.
 
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DirkAB

Guest
#123
#123
Warhawk said:
You act like Artest is the only guy in the league who can play defense. Please.

It is possibly "the biggest step towards a good defense the Kings could ever take", but it could also doom the next few years if he continues to be the TO of basketball. And ever is a pretty long time. You don't think there could be another young guy out there who could be a better defender in a year or two? Artest is now officially "THE BEST DEFENDER OF ALL TIME"?

I think a Bowen or AK-47 or similar defender would help us out as well. Even Garcia is showing flashes (after only 20 games as a rook) that he could develop into something special defensively in a few years. It's not Peja for Artest or the team is doomed forever, you know. There are a lot of players out there - I don't want this particular one on the Kings.
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Are you kidding me? Bowen? You think Bowen is comparable to Artest? And Garcia? Holy cow, these guys aren't even in the same ballpark as Artest. Artest is one of the top 10-15 players in the league, and those guys you mentioned, besides AK-47, are nothing compared to him. And Kirilenko is untouchable anyway, so you might want to quit daydreaming about that one. You're right there are lots of other great defenders out there, but none that can do it on both ends of the court like him, accept for superstars like KG, LeBron, Duncan, ect... But who else is avialable for right now, and for such a cheap price? So do you think that Artest isn't the cheapest talent in the game besides those still under their rookie contract?

I never said he is the "best defender of all-time," but he probably is one of them. He's maybe the best defender in the game right now and you should acknowledge that. Have you even watched him play besides against the Kings?
 
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DirkAB

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#125
#125
vj9999 said:
I'd take Bowen for Peja.
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For $4.3 million less he is a better deal, but no way is this team better with Bowen playing instead of Peja.
 
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Warhawk

Warhawk

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#126
#126
DirkAB said:
Are you kidding me? Bowen? You think Bowen is comparable to Artest? And Garcia? Holy cow, these guys aren't even in the same ballpark as Artest. Artest is one of the top 10-15 players in the league, and those guys you mentioned, besides AK-47, are nothing compared to him. And Kirilenko is untouchable anyway, so you might want to quit daydreaming about that one. You're right there are lots of other great defenders out there, but none that can do it on both ends of the court like him, accept for superstars like KG, LeBron, Duncan, ect... But who else is avialable for right now, and for such a cheap price? So do you think that Artest isn't the cheapest talent in the game besides those still under their rookie contract?

I never said he is the "best defender of all-time," but he probably is one of them. He's maybe the best defender in the game right now and you should acknowledge that. Have you even watched him play besides against the Kings?
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I never said they were compatible, I just said there are others (besides Artest) who can play effective D. Don't put words in my mouth.

I threw out 2 names off the top of my head. There are lots of defensive guys out there. Find one who's not a nutjob is all I'm saying. Draft one, for Pete's sake, if you want one and none are available in trades. Trade Peja for some #1 picks and get the guy you want.

He may be one of the top 5 defenders (maybe top 3), but if he decides (again) that his "label" is more important than basketball, or if some fan goads him into the stands again, the best defender in the world is worthless on the bench or when suspended and sent home.
 
D

DirkAB

Guest
#128
#128
Warhawk said:
I never said they were compatible, I just said there are others (besides Artest) who can play effective D. Don't put words in my mouth.

I threw out 2 names off the top of my head. There are lots of defensive guys out there. Find one who's not a nutjob is all I'm saying. Draft one, for Pete's sake, if you want one and none are available in trades. Trade Peja for some #1 picks and get the guy you want.
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Who is putting words into whose mouth? You're the one that implied me stating Artest was the only one who could play defense in the league, and that he was "the best defender of all-time." So practice what you preach.

Why did you throw those names (Bowen, Garcia, Ak-47) out there then? What relevance did they have to this discussion? That their are other good defenders out there that aren't available and whose salaries don't match up with Peja? That those players can play defense but lack the offensive talent?

If you don't want Artest because he is a risk then just leave it at that. When you start bringing other specific players into the discussion and have nowhere to go with it, you lose your point and make no sense.
 
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DirkAB

Guest
#129
#129
foretaz said:
u may want to think hard about that statement...
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With no other player changes, this team is no better with Bowen instead of Peja, as a matter of a fact they are worse. Bowen is nothing on offense without Duncan and Ginobili, the Kings don't have an inside presence or a slasher that even compare. Bowen gets more wide open three than anybody else in the game.
 
K

keine

Guest
#130
#130
How would Kings fans react for this scenario:

Lakers get Ron Artest
Kings get Lamar Odom
Pacers get Peja Stoijakovic [sic?]

I bet there would be some extras in that deal, but those 3 being at the center. How do Kings fans feel?

I know Pacers need a shooter, and that the Lakers need defense of any kind. Seems like the kings need some kind of low-post player. On a finesse team like the Kings, Odom may be able to fit that mold.
 
foretaz

foretaz

Bench
#131
#131
DirkAB said:
With no other player changes, this team is no better with Bowen instead of Peja, as a matter of a fact they are worse. Bowen is nothing on offense without Duncan and Ginobili, the Kings don't have an inside presence or a slasher that even compare. Bowen gets more wide open three than anybody else in the game.
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i dunno...

take a look at their production so far this season...bowen is shooting the ball better...

does he get better looks? of course...

but isnt that the point?...neither are really players that get their own shots, but rather guys that play off of others...

bowen is a lock down defender...to a team in dire need of something like that, it seems the offensive differences arent as dramatic as one might hope...

it would be an interesting experiment if u put bowen on the kings...hes a good teammate, has really developed into a great shooter, and his defense speaks for itself...

not that it matters, but i think the spurs wouldnt be as good with peja either...not that any of this is a very fair argument...team makeup has alot to do with it...
 
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DirkAB

Guest
#132
#132
foretaz said:
not that it matters, but i think the spurs wouldnt be as good with peja either...not that any of this is a very fair argument...team makeup has alot to do with it...
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That is pretty much my whole arguement that team makeup has everything to do with it. How is Bowen going to get of any shots on the Kings with nobody else drawing any double teams? And Peja probably draws more double teams than any other player on Kings opening up others, so Bowen would really be a horrible fit for the Kings offense.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

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#133
#133
DirkAB said:
Who is putting words into whose mouth? You're the one that implied me stating Artest was the only one who could play defense in the league, and that he was "the best defender of all-time." So practice what you preach.

Why did you throw those names (Bowen, Garcia, Ak-47) out there then? What relevance did they have to this discussion? That their are other good defenders out there that aren't available and whose salaries don't match up with Peja? That those players can play defense but lack the offensive talent?

If you don't want Artest because he is a risk then just leave it at that. When you start bringing other specific players into the discussion and have nowhere to go with it, you lose your point and make no sense.
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You said:

"but none that can do it on both ends of the court like him, accept for superstars"

and:

"I never said he is the "best defender of all-time," but he probably is one of them. He's maybe the best defender in the game right now and you should acknowledge that."

OK, maybe not EXACTLY what you implied, but pretty darn close. If the distinction means that much to you - I apologize.

I threw out other names because you keep acting like it is Artest or nothing, when it isn't. There are a lot of guys that play defense in this league. And, NEWS FLASH, multiple players can be included in trades to make salaries match. I would rather include an extra player in a trade or get an extra in return than take Artest.

I do not want Artest on this team. I am not necessarily against trading Peja, I just want something with talent AND on this side of stable in return.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#141
#141
Indy Star guy on PTI mentioned getting Peja for Artest would be something to consider (or something like that). But he said he thinks he'll be sent to a young/bad team like Toronto like Al Harrington was to Atlanta when he wanted out.
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#143
#143
S

Smart_guy3

Guest
#144
#144
Marc Stein: Lakers Nuggets showing most interest on Artest

He was, just on BSPN but a 3rd team must be Involved, possibly the Kings... I think but I'm surprised the Lakers got into the mix...
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#146
#146
So the Kings with Bibby did not play great defense despite accounting for 70% of the total season in which they were #2 in defensive efficiency (and 99% of the season before in which they were #6).

It's ok, you can admit that you were exaggerating and that your point wasn't meant to be taken literally.
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#147
#147
uolj said:
So the Kings with Bibby did not play great defense despite accounting for 70% of the total season in which they were #2 in defensive efficiency (and 99% of the season before in which they were #6).

It's ok, you can admit that you were exaggerating and that your point wasn't meant to be taken literally.
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nah, that is OK.

Any time I bump into "Bibby - all defense" comettee - it is worth arguing. Has anyone of You ever seen Bibby play defense. Any one of You remembers a key stop ? I remember lots od DC and Bobby but - nope Bibby and defense - doesn't ring a bell.

Did You ever seen me arguing that Pedja is clutch, or Vlade is the best conditioning athlete or something that is compleately surreal.
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#148
#148
piksi said:
nah, that is OK.

Any time I bump into "Bibby - all defense" comettee - it is worth arguing. Has anyone of You ever seen Bibby play defense. Any one of You remembers a key stop ? I remember lots od DC and Bobby but - nope Bibby and defense - doesn't ring a bell.

Did You ever seen me arguing that Pedja is clutch, or Vlade is the best conditioning athlete or something that is compleately surreal.
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Of course, nobody was saying anything about Bibby playing good defense. You brought him up first. I believe the comment you quoted was from DirkAB, "I said if you are against this trade then you should never ***** about the Kings bad defense again, not that if we got him the Kings would never play bad defense again."

Like I said, it's ok, you can admit it. You took advantage of somebody mentioning Kings defense to arbitrarily make an exaggerated remark about Bibby's poor defense. It happens sometimes. Just don't be afraid to admit that is all that it was when somebody calls you on it.
 
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