My problem is that You are trying to convince people how great Ron is. I have been on Pacers site and read some stuff. I have rarely seen a player being bashed in such a way.
We have 2 wievs on this issue on this site. Niether group is denying Artests qualities as a player. Also neither group is denying all the issues that Ron would bring.
Now one group is willing to take a risk and the other is not.
Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores!
We have 2 wievs on this issue on this site. Niether group is denying Artests qualities as a player. Also neither group is denying all the issues that Ron would bring.
Now one group is willing to take a risk and the other is not.
Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores!
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lol...excuse me...
im not trying to convince anyone of anything...personally i could care a less what u think of ron....
i thought the idea was to share opinions...u have urs and have made it very well known....
so i expressed mine....
shoulda known better...
difference is i dont have an agenda here....
u obviously do...
im not trying to convince anyone of anything...personally i could care a less what u think of ron....
i thought the idea was to share opinions...u have urs and have made it very well known....
so i expressed mine....
shoulda known better...
difference is i dont have an agenda here....
u obviously do...
I understand Your opinion and I have no problem with Your perspective of things.
On the other had You constantly fail to see my point of wiev.
And do You have an agenda as we all do -mainly to see out team do well. We all just see things differently. I think that Kings have to look for options other than Ron. We need something of the bench and soon. We are really having a hard time tis season. We really don't need any more distractions.
On the other had You constantly fail to see my point of wiev.
And do You have an agenda as we all do -mainly to see out team do well. We all just see things differently. I think that Kings have to look for options other than Ron. We need something of the bench and soon. We are really having a hard time tis season. We really don't need any more distractions.
When I read some Kings fans posts, they sound like if somebody doesn't want Artest its because we want our team to stay soft and never get better defensively.
Nothing could be further from the truth, at least for me. I want a player with great defense who leaves it all on the floor. I just don't want it in a player who brings so much real mental/emotional crap with him. I want someone who is all for the team, but is under control. You don't cause problems like Artest has for the Pacers, if you are truly mature and disciplined. I know Artest may be one of the hardest working players in the game. He does have that kind of discipline. He does not have mental discipline, mature judgement or any insight. (See KG or Duncan for what I mean.)
It takes a lot of discipline to channel energy and emotion in the right way, to make them work for your goals instead of tripping you up (and screwing things up for your teammates along the way).
EDIT: No mistake in expressing your opinion. But why would you think that, just because we have a different opinion? I appreciate your perspective, I just have a different one. You like Artest, you want him to stay with the Pacers. I don't like his baggage and don't want him on my team. Simple difference of opinion.
Nothing could be further from the truth, at least for me. I want a player with great defense who leaves it all on the floor. I just don't want it in a player who brings so much real mental/emotional crap with him. I want someone who is all for the team, but is under control. You don't cause problems like Artest has for the Pacers, if you are truly mature and disciplined. I know Artest may be one of the hardest working players in the game. He does have that kind of discipline. He does not have mental discipline, mature judgement or any insight. (See KG or Duncan for what I mean.)
It takes a lot of discipline to channel energy and emotion in the right way, to make them work for your goals instead of tripping you up (and screwing things up for your teammates along the way).
EDIT: No mistake in expressing your opinion. But why would you think that, just because we have a different opinion? I appreciate your perspective, I just have a different one. You like Artest, you want him to stay with the Pacers. I don't like his baggage and don't want him on my team. Simple difference of opinion.
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u really should learn to read, then....
show me one time i said that the kings should get ron???
go ahead show me...
i consider myself a guest here....im a pacers fan...
and for a while i refrained from ur continually taking personal shots at ron....some of which i might have been a joke...but either way it was apparent u werent very well informed regarding ron...
so i made the mistake of voicing my opinion about ron, specifically as it related to some of the issues u had...
and like i said...with zero agenda...im not for ron going to the kings...for a number of reasons....the biggest being the kings dont have anything i would like in a trade for ron...i dont want peja....
u, on the other hand, have made no secret of ur not wanting ron....and have been on a bit of a smear campaign....
and when my opinion-a very well informed opinion, i might add- contradicted that, well then u started in on me, as well...
lol...not that i could really care...but i do find ur behavior a bit out of line considering how things usually are on this board...
and thats from a totally unbiased observer...
show me one time i said that the kings should get ron???
go ahead show me...
i consider myself a guest here....im a pacers fan...
and for a while i refrained from ur continually taking personal shots at ron....some of which i might have been a joke...but either way it was apparent u werent very well informed regarding ron...
so i made the mistake of voicing my opinion about ron, specifically as it related to some of the issues u had...
and like i said...with zero agenda...im not for ron going to the kings...for a number of reasons....the biggest being the kings dont have anything i would like in a trade for ron...i dont want peja....
u, on the other hand, have made no secret of ur not wanting ron....and have been on a bit of a smear campaign....
and when my opinion-a very well informed opinion, i might add- contradicted that, well then u started in on me, as well...
lol...not that i could really care...but i do find ur behavior a bit out of line considering how things usually are on this board...
and thats from a totally unbiased observer...
piksi said:
"zero agenda" - I don't think so.
And Pacers would be lucky to get Pedja under this circumstances and You know it.
And - it is never about what we (the fans) want.
I really did not want R. Horry to hit that shot
And Pacers would be lucky to get Pedja under this circumstances and You know it.
And - it is never about what we (the fans) want.
I really did not want R. Horry to hit that shot
and do my a favor, dont tell me what i know...what i know is this....that if peja is all we can get...then that would suck....i know we wont get equal talent because thats not possible with ron....but i would hope we could get something closer than peja....and definitely something thats a better fit....i cringe when i think about playing the pistons in the playoffs and having peja-no thanks...
and again, ive never said that the kings should try to get him...and ive told u why i wish they wouldnt...
but know this...they would be a noticeably better...as would any team that gets ron....
and i really dont see what the big risk would be...the kings have the worst record in the pacific....and the speculated trade has them trading a player that is probably gonna walk away at the end of the season...and even if they did a sign and trade they would never get anything close to an all nba and dpoy ....
im done with u...ur hospitality leaves alot to be desired....unlike almost every other kings fan ive encountered on here....
I don't have anything against Artest personally, Foretaz and I guess you think I do. And I certainly don't think Ron is malicious or intentionally selfish at all. To me, he is more like a kid who honestly doesn't understand the consequences of his actions. To me he seems like he might be immensely frustrated that his good intentions go awry and he really doesn't understand why.
But...that's why I think he can do damage to a team without ever meaning to. Kind of like a lovable, sweet kid brother who just keeps screwing up and making life difficult or even miserable for the rest of the family. It only takes one really dysfunctional family member to ruin things for everyone else. One dysfunctional starter can really screw things up for the whole team without ever intending to. Personally, I think the Kings have enough problems right now, without taking what I perceive as a real risk to screw it up even worse. (And yes, I think it is possible for things to be much worse.)
But...that's why I think he can do damage to a team without ever meaning to. Kind of like a lovable, sweet kid brother who just keeps screwing up and making life difficult or even miserable for the rest of the family. It only takes one really dysfunctional family member to ruin things for everyone else. One dysfunctional starter can really screw things up for the whole team without ever intending to. Personally, I think the Kings have enough problems right now, without taking what I perceive as a real risk to screw it up even worse. (And yes, I think it is possible for things to be much worse.)
no problem at all....ur analogy isnt that far off...with ron, not unlike most, u have to take the good with the bad....
and the good is really good....now last year was really bad, whether it was totally handled correctly or not...
two things about ron....he raises the intensity of everyone else on the floor, especially on the defensive end....he makes everyone a bit better with his presence on the floor...
the second is simple...every nite, u know u win the matchup at the 3 spot...period...there really isnt much of a debate there...there may be a couple of sfs considered bettter than he, but when artest's team plays that team, the individual matchup is always won by ron....hes simply too good on both ends...take a look at the thanksgiving game against the cavs for a perfect example....
ur never gonna lose a game because u got outplayed at the 3 spot
and the good is really good....now last year was really bad, whether it was totally handled correctly or not...
two things about ron....he raises the intensity of everyone else on the floor, especially on the defensive end....he makes everyone a bit better with his presence on the floor...
the second is simple...every nite, u know u win the matchup at the 3 spot...period...there really isnt much of a debate there...there may be a couple of sfs considered bettter than he, but when artest's team plays that team, the individual matchup is always won by ron....hes simply too good on both ends...take a look at the thanksgiving game against the cavs for a perfect example....
ur never gonna lose a game because u got outplayed at the 3 spot
Foretaz: Oh I love to watch Artest play on the court. He is an incredibly gifted athlete. The rest, just really makes me nervous about having him on my team. But without the rest, no way the Pacers ever trade him. BTW, I'm not sure Piksi was saying you want the Kings to take him. We just have a LOTof members here who are really desperate to get Ron in a trade involving Pedja.
EDIT: Thanks 6th.
EDIT: Thanks 6th.
This is absolutely the best deal for Peja. Ron Artest has been called one of the 10 best players in the NBA by some people. That's all subjective. He is a star, not a superstar, but only because of the problems he's had. I think we could get him to behave for the most part. Honestly this year it's been noted he's been good with referee's, and his teammates. He's reached out to teammates building relationships with them off the court as well as on. The haircut thing of course was blown up to show what could be considered as negative. Honestly who cares if his hair is cut with his label's name. I think we get him here and he behaves. Bonzi and him become best friends, since they have similar ideals in playing and toughness. They all play red rover together and we get along and play better and tougher.
kennadog said:
Foretaz: Oh I love to watch Artest play on the court. He is an incredibly gifted athlete. The rest, just really makes me nervous about having him on my team. But without the rest, no way the Pacers ever trade him. BTW, I'm not sure Piksi was saying you want the Kings to take him. We just have a LOTof members here who are really desperate to get Ron in a trade involving Pedja.
EDIT: Thanks 6th.
EDIT: Thanks 6th.
trust me, the pacers dont want to trade him....theve simply got no choice...and the pacers went from title contenders to maybe ecf contenders at the very best...