Retro discussion of Peja and "clutch" (split from fav King thread)

[bperiod]

Peja was ranked in the top 5 for 4th quarter FG% during the 2003-04 season. While I agree that he was weak when it came to physical play, he certainly was not soft when it came to the clutch

There is no one who would ever mistake Peja for a clutch shooter with a game on the line. That stat you listed doesn't mean anything....how many shots is he taking? When were they taken? All I know is with the biggest game on the line and a wide open 3 from the 3 pt champ....he put up an AIR BALL. Did not miss the shot....MISSED THE ENTIRE BASKET. I know, I know...no negative talk, plus it's the wrong thread. So I am done, but had to reply. Sorry.

 

[Ryan]

I know, I know...no negative talk, plus it's the wrong thread. So I am done, but had to reply. Sorry.

That's ok, im sure no one will mind.

All I know is with the biggest game on the line and a wide open 3 from the 3 pt champ....he put up an AIR BALL. Did not miss the shot....MISSED THE ENTIRE BASKET.

So you're basing this off of one game? I hope you are joking. As I remember he sat out for two weeks with an injury, not to mention all the other kings choked too.

Peja has hit winning shots time after time again, with the Kings and other teams, and if you like, I can post the videos of him doing this.

 

[Bricklayer]

Peja has hit winning shots time after time again, with the Kings and other teams, and if you like, I can post the videos of him doing this.

You have plural?

Discussion for a different thread, but Peja's lack of clutch/playoff play is not really a myth.

 

[Ryan]

haha, then maybe this should go in the NBA forum

 

[bperiod]

All I am saying is Peja got a free ride for a LONG TIME. NOBODY is puttin the ball in his hands with the game on the line. Every time he disappeared it was blamed on somebody else. Even when he started demanding a trade, etc....it just seems like Chris, Mike, etc are all selfish prima donas...but no not Peja....gimme a break. And YES I will base my feelings for him on 1 game. It was THE game. Are you kidding me? I don't care if he was out 10 wks. HE'S THE 3 PT CHAMPION!? Not even close...can I get some rim..get a chance for rebound? UNBELIEVABLE. Yes..the whole team had it's share, along with some Laker calls...BUT...HE had a chance to cancel all that out and put up THAT shot? I know I said I was done...but I can't let "Peja is clutch" go unchecked.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

Peja has hit at least two buzzer beaters for the Hornets and quite a few clutch shots with under a minute to go. I don't want to act like he's Mr. Clutch, but he's not as bad as some people here like to believe. He doesn't go crawl up into a ball at the very least.

Yeah, he airballed that shot. Yeah, it was a huge choke-job. No, he probably should never live that down. But I've seen people here claim that Webber earned his way out of his reputation by hitting a bunch of "clutch" shots in meaningless games, so why isn't the same true for Peja? And I don't see how it was any worse than Webber clanking a wide open put-back from 2 feet out in game 7 against the Wolves. Everyone on "the Team" had warts, I don't see why some try to act some had bigger ones than others.

Stojakovic made a Hornets-record 10 3-pointers in a victory over the Los Angeles Lakers this season. He followed that up with a game-tying 3 against the Dallas Mavericks with 2.9 seconds left in regulation. The Hornets went on to win in overtime, ending an eight-year losing streak against the Mavericks.

Last month, there was his game-winning 3-pointer with 15 seconds remaining against the Milwaukee Bucks, and his buzzer-beating, game-winning jumper in double-overtime against the Phoenix Suns, after which Paul tackled Stojakovic to the court in celebration, admittedly too fired up to be concerned with his teammate's back.

And that's not counting that game winning three at the buzzer from out in the boonies against Charlotte last year.

Again, I'm not saying he's Mr. Clutch and that he hasn't choked big time for us in the past, but him hitting big shots isn't anything new or that surprising (in the regular season at least). Hell, his game winner for us against Detroit is still one of my favorite Kings moments of all time.

 

[bperiod]

Again, not saying he NEVER hit a game deciding shot. What I am saying is he wasn't super clutch like Ryan tried to state with his stat line. Also, my main point is Peja got treated with velvet gloves around here when other players who contributed as much or MORE than he did got continuely dumped on.

 

[Jerryaki]

here's the question: if your team was in game 7 of the NBA finals, down 1 with 4 seconds to go (i.e. any basket will win it), would you want the ball in peja's hand?

my answer is NO.

 

[uolj]

here's the question: if your team was in game 7 of the NBA finals, down 1 with 4 seconds to go (i.e. any basket will win it), would you want the ball in peja's hand?

my answer is NO.

But that's not a very good question.

If it was game 7 of the finals and the team was down 3 with 8 seconds to go, would you be ok with Peja taking the shot? I would. Are there quite a few others I would prefer? Yes, but that's not relevant to whether I think Stojakovic could hit it.

I basically agree with Kevin's Good Feet.

 

[Jerryaki]

i'll amend my stance. basically, if it's a close game, anywhere from about the 3 minute mark down and i probably wouldn't want peja on the floor. i wouldn't be hellbent on getting him out, but just not one of the final 5 guys i would play in crunchtime.

so i guess those guys i would play/want taking the shot, i would consider "clutch" and thus to me peja is not clutch.

If it was game 7 of the finals and the team was down 3 with 8 seconds to go, would you be ok with Peja taking the shot? I would. Are there quite a few others I would prefer? Yes, but that's not relevant to whether I think Stojakovic could hit it.

i don't think he would hit it.

 

[tradepeja]

Again, I'm not saying he's Mr. Clutch and that he hasn't choked big time for us in the past, but him hitting big shots isn't anything new or that surprising (in the regular season at least). Hell, his game winner for us against Detroit is still one of my favorite Kings moments of all time.

Does anyone have the video if this? I agree, that was an amazing moment, and one of the most well-designed game-ending plays I've ever seen.

 

[Ryan]

here's the question: if your team was in game 7 of the NBA finals, down 1 with 4 seconds to go (i.e. any basket will win it), would you want the ball in peja's hand?

my answer is NO.

Why not?? Name a time when he has missed a shot like this.

 

[Ryan]

Does anyone have the video if this? I agree, that was an amazing moment, and one of the most well-designed game-ending plays I've ever seen.

[yt=Peja vs Detroit]tfOaHgWKjXs&feature=related [/yt]

 

[Jerryaki]

Why not?? Name a time when he has missed a shot like this.

during his time here in sacramento, i think it was shown that peja had a tendency to disappear in the fourth quarter of games. to me, that provides insight into his mentality, namely that he doesn't have that "killer instinct" that is usually associated with clutch players. the guy taking that shot has to want to take that shot, and i just don't think peja fits that bill.

but, to be fair, i can't name a shot like that unless you can provide me all the peja game footage to review.

 

[Peja]

Hmm why are we discussing about Peja here and now??I watched the guy when he was in Paok,Greece and his 3 pointer brought them a title.His clutch shots brought us European and World titles in 2001 and 2002(I am talking about national team).He had a few clutch shots in Sacramento,but many misses and in New Orleans he is doing pretty well in the last quarter.I wouldn't say that he is bad or great,he's just an average guy who can sometimes score late in the 4th quarter.

 

[Ryan]

And YES I will base my feelings for him on 1 game. It was THE game. Are you kidding me?

Well, Jordan missed the shot in Game 5 of the 1997 NBA finals, which would have won the game and the championship. So maybe he's not clutch either.

NOBODY is puttin the ball in his hands with the game on the line.

That's werid. I could have sworn the game was on the line in this clip...

[yt=Peja vs MN]N6Vtx_LLs4g&feature=related[/yt]

and maybe this one too....

[yt=Peja vs Sonics]O7_OQd6UQ1w[/yt]

Would you like me to post more?

 

[FakeInjury]

I appreciate the Vid. Peja has a chance to be better for his new team. But, he is not clutch in the slightest. Webber was taking the shots that really matter. If peja was clutch, he would be making more money than he is now. If. Kobe makes 20 mil. KG makes 20 mil. Those players are clutch, and are durable and hard working. Peja is hard working, working hard on shoot. I am against ever mentioning peja again. His offense was soooo bad, teams would sluff off him during the playoffs. He was a liability and I would like to see how he finds a way to alienate himself from new orleans. But it would be nice to see him succeed.

 

[bperiod]

Why not?? Name a time when he has missed a shot like this.

C'mon man..that was too easy a question

Go to 2:08....in case you forgot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMV5o0OUwLo

 

[Ryan]

His offense was soooo bad, teams would sluff off him during the playoffs.

Yeah, 2nd in the NBA in scoring (24.2 ppg) and #1 in free through shooting (.927) during thr 2003-04 season. His offense was "soooo bad"

 

[Ryan]

C'mon man..that was too easy a question

Go to 2:08....in case you forgot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMV5o0OUwLo

I've already made my case for this. ONE GAME!! You're not answering any of my questions. Find something else to back up your steatment.

 

[Jerryaki]

you also have to remember though, a person hitting daggers at the end of games isn't necessarily clutch. remember that game two years back when bonzi hit the rainbow three to beat the t-wolves? that doesn't make him clutch. and a player (like peja) can hit those shots every now and then/more than once...i'm still not going to think he's clutch, nor want him taking those types of shots in those situations. just my two cents.

 

[Ryan]

you also have to remember though, a person hitting daggers at the end of games isn't necessarily clutch. remember that game two years back when bonzi hit the rainbow three to beat the t-wolves? that doesn't make him clutch. and a player (like peja) can hit those shots every now and then/more than once...i'm still not going to think he's clutch, nor want him taking those types of shots in those situations. just my two cents.

I agree with you 100% that making a clutch shot does not mean you're clutch, but that's the steatment everyone is making why he's NOT. You guys are saying he's not because the fact that he somehow missed those shots (even though i've only seen one example).

So if making game winning shots means your not clutch, and if you miss game winning shots then you are not clutch.......then what is clutch?

 

[VF21]

It's the pedal on the floorboard closest to the sidewall of the driver's side of the passenger compartment.

 

[Jerryaki]

*rimshot*

i had posted earlier, but for me clutch means you have the killer instinct, the desire to impose your will on the game when it's on the line (whether to defend the lead or to get the lead). not just hitting those shots in the waning minutes or seconds of the game.

 

[Entity]

I've already made my case for this. ONE GAME!! You're not answering any of my questions. Find something else to back up your steatment.

In fairness you aren't going to find many videos entitled peja misses shot. They only seem to archive the game winners. The fact that only 4 or 5 times he did hit a clutch shot in 10 years in the NBA should give all the info that needs to be given. Peja was a great shooter and maybe still is at times. He was not the guy you want to have the ball at the end of game.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

One thing I never see Peja get credit for is one on one defense. He was a terrible help defender (kind of like Kevin Martin) but in the last Playoff Series we actually won: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200404290SAC.html

I remember games 2, 4 and 5 he made the defensive stop on each of Dirk, Nash and Finley at the end of those three games.

However, this all goes back to never won a championship. We win in 2001 this never gets brought up again.

 

[Jerryaki]

^^nitpicking a bit, but that "stop" on nowitzki was actually a foul. i think he intentionally grabbed him but dirk broke away, and no call was made.

 

[VF21]

One thing I never see Peja get credit for is one on one defense. He was a terrible help defender (kind of like Kevin Martin) but in the last Playoff Series we actually won: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200404290SAC.html

I remember games 2, 4 and 5 he made the defensive stop on each of Dirk, Nash and Finley at the end of those three games.

However, this all goes back to never won a championship. We win in 2001 this never gets brought up again.

It's gonna be a long TDOS. Maybe we'll pretend, just for the summer, we DID win in 2001 and try and predict what would have happened afterwards.

 

[Ryan]

In fairness you aren't going to find many videos entitled peja misses shot. They only seem to archive the game winners. The fact that only 4 or 5 times he did hit a clutch shot in 10 years in the NBA should give all the info that needs to be given. Peja was a great shooter and maybe still is at times. He was not the guy you want to have the ball at the end of game.

I'm not asking for videos (i mean it would be great if there were some), but just a simple evidence like some recalling a time he messed up, or some statistic to back up the claim that he was not clutch. All other evidence proves otherwise.

For example: I could say "webber's not clutch" by giving examples like when he missed a 2001 regular season buzzer beater in Portland that would have won the game, or the fact that he nearly dropped the ball out of bounds in 2002 Game 5 WCF, or the fact that he let Bibby take the shot, or the time he called timeout in Michigan, or the time he missed the three in game 7 2004 against MN....blah blah blha....or I could pull up his poor free-throw %...blah blah...

I agree that he was a soft player, but how can you say he's not clutch when he was in the top 5 for FG% in the 4th, and many years he was in the top 10 for player efficiency in the 4th.

Granted, I think this whole subject got blown out of proportion, but with what Peja's done in the past, to have someone say he was the lest clutch player in kings history or whatever, come on....

 

[Ryan]

I guess I'm just trying to get across that he wasn't as bad as everyone thought he was. During the glory years, yes, I would want Bibby taking the shot, but IMHO, Peja would be next in line.