Remembering Chris Webber
- Thread starter PurpleHaze
- Start date
Interesting OP. Now I'm stuck wondering if PurpleHaze is, in actuality, R.E. Graswich.
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I dedicated today's blog on the home page of Kingsfans.com to Webber and the rest of THE TEAM.
The Sacramento Kings would never have reached national importance without the presence and influence of Chris Webber. Did he make mistakes? Hell, yes. Did he do things I wish he hadn't done? Ditto.
BUT...
Did he leave it all out there on the court? Yes. Was he a TRUE warrior King? Hell, yes. He played with six different teams during his NBA career, but it is his time with our Kings that pretty much define him AND us.
He will be missed. I personally plan on making a special trip to Center Court at least once a year to let him know how grateful I will always be for the journey he helped us take.
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I dedicated today's blog on the home page of Kingsfans.com to Webber and the rest of THE TEAM.
The Sacramento Kings would never have reached national importance without the presence and influence of Chris Webber. Did he make mistakes? Hell, yes. Did he do things I wish he hadn't done? Ditto.
BUT...
Did he leave it all out there on the court? Yes. Was he a TRUE warrior King? Hell, yes. He played with six different teams during his NBA career, but it is his time with our Kings that pretty much define him AND us.
He will be missed. I personally plan on making a special trip to Center Court at least once a year to let him know how grateful I will always be for the journey he helped us take.
It's his restaraunt in Natomas area:
http://www.centercourtwithcwebb.com/
Edit - oops - VF beat me to it, but I provided the linky-link.
http://www.centercourtwithcwebb.com/
Edit - oops - VF beat me to it, but I provided the linky-link.
Retired Uniform Numbers:
(1) Nate Archibald - Milwaukee Bucks
(2) Mitch Richmond - LA Lakers
(6) (Sixth Man) Fans - Probably the only legitimate King?
(11) Bob Davies - Rochester Royals
(12) Maurice Stokes - Rochester/Cincinnati Royals
(14) Oscar Robertson - Milwaukee Bucks
(27) Jack Twyman - Rochester/Cincinnati Royals
(44) Sam Lacey - Cleveland Cavs
Please make corrections if I made a mistake.
(1) Nate Archibald - Milwaukee Bucks
(2) Mitch Richmond - LA Lakers
(6) (Sixth Man) Fans - Probably the only legitimate King?
(11) Bob Davies - Rochester Royals
(12) Maurice Stokes - Rochester/Cincinnati Royals
(14) Oscar Robertson - Milwaukee Bucks
(27) Jack Twyman - Rochester/Cincinnati Royals
(44) Sam Lacey - Cleveland Cavs
Please make corrections if I made a mistake.
Maurice Stokes is truly a sad story:
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=395072&postcount=19
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=395072&postcount=19
It's his restaraunt in Natomas area:
http://www.centercourtwithcwebb.com/
Edit - oops - VF beat me to it, but I provided the linky-link.
http://www.centercourtwithcwebb.com/
Edit - oops - VF beat me to it, but I provided the linky-link.
That's how I will remember Chris Webber - my favourite player of all times!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_b0vr0srOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_b0vr0srOM
For us Kings fans from the late 80's thru the 90's, the era from 1998 to 2004 were the pinnacle for our Kings for all the losing we endured for the previous 15 years. Sure CWebb was initially unhappy, but now in retrospect his years in Sacramento WERE his best years. He was a true All-Star who took the Kings to the alter where they failed to make a couple of critical free-throws.........
He was far more a prima-donna than I paid attention to at the time. But in 2004 that attitude and mandating to start or not play, sunk what was the best team in the NBA at the time. I then personally blamed him for sinking the Kings TEAM.
But those 4-1/2 years were my best fan NBA years. So I'll leave it at that. Thanks CWebb for the memories.
OK, so I can't "leave it at that". Sorry it didn't work out. Wish you would have sucked it up in '04, maybe we could have gotten back to the Western Conference finals with you coming off the bench. But we'll never know.
He was far more a prima-donna than I paid attention to at the time. But in 2004 that attitude and mandating to start or not play, sunk what was the best team in the NBA at the time. I then personally blamed him for sinking the Kings TEAM.
But those 4-1/2 years were my best fan NBA years. So I'll leave it at that. Thanks CWebb for the memories.
OK, so I can't "leave it at that". Sorry it didn't work out. Wish you would have sucked it up in '04, maybe we could have gotten back to the Western Conference finals with you coming off the bench. But we'll never know.
I apologize for the length of this post. I have quietly endured the aggravation regarding this topic for some time. But to see it still popping up in a Webber Remembrance thread has forced me to respond in extreme fashion.
Five All-Star teams, five All-NBA teams, five top 10 MVP vote finishes, top 50 all-time player in efficiency (according to Hollinger's ticker tape), first overall pick 1993, Rookie of the Year 93-94, rebounding champion 98-99
That's funny; I must have missed "player-coach" in his list of accolades.
It wasn’t his job to divvy out his own playing time; that honor was left up to Adelman. And by every indication, from my research, it was, in fact, coach Adelman’s decision:
"As soon as he returned to the lineup, Webber was given stewardship of the Kings' offense. Adelman's semi-defensible reasoning was that, by letting Webber hold the ball and pass to teammates from the top of the key, the Kings' star could be coaxed back to his high-flying C-Webb form—and just in time for the playoffs."
-John Hollinger, SLATE, Suicide Kings, 2004 (written during the T-wolves playoff series.)
I have been scouring Google with every conceivable search combination to uncover this insidious no start/no play ultimatum made by Webber which as you say, invariably lead to the demise of our beloved Kings’ best chance at a championship and your condemnation of arguably the greatest player in the Sacramento era.
Although I was unsuccessful in that regard, I did however find two interesting excerpts from the Sac Bee made at the time:
March 7, 2004
“Sacramento power forward Chris Webber will have his first back-to-back test tonight against Orlando, and head coach Rick Adelman is wondering whether he should even take it. ""What's waiting for us later is too important for us to rush things now,"" Adelman told the Sacramento Bee.
Adelman will meet with trainer Pete Youngman to decide on Webber's status. The Kings played in Miami yesterday, where Webber played in his third game after rehabbing his surgically repaired knee all season. Webber has yet to practice on back-to-back days.
Webber also told the Bee he desperately wants to play, but understands his coach's rationale.”
March 1, 2004
“All-Star forward Brad Miller (foot) returned from a seven-game absence on Sunday, and after looking good with 16 points and 10 boards, promptly offered his starting spot to Chris Webber.”
And while the use of Webber was Adelman’s decision, I don’t believe he can be “faulted” for it either. There are two main aspects of this that revisionist historians either simply don’t understand or choose to ignore all together.
The first, of course, is that a healthy Webber would have made that year’s Kings nearly unbeatable. (I use “nearly” for political correctness purposes). I don’t believe this is even an argument among the Webber condemners.
Of course, there was no way of knowing then that he would never regain his form. The only way to find out at the time was to keep him on the court and hope he found his groove.
But the much more important reason is pure logistics. The Kings were already running along the razor’s edge risking having all of the season’s “success” crushed by the injury bug again. They’re lack of depth due to injuries that season was epitomized when Peeler was suspended during the T-wolves series:
“Peeler's absence brings an already thin Kings' rotation down to only six players. Forward Brad Miller is the first and most prominent player off the bench but with Peeler and guard Bobby Jackson (abdomen) both out Rodney Buford is the only remaining guard on the Sacramento pine. Forward Darius Songaila may see increased minutes as well.”
-FanballNews.com, May 17, 2004.
What does this have to do with Webber?
Vlade was on borrowed time (as evident by completely shutting down and retiring the next season for the Lakers) and was already slowing due to back troubles. Miller had also missed extended time with foot and elbow problems, the latter of which Miller admitted wouldn’t fully heal until after the season.
That means a very realistic season ending injury to either, and a benching of Webber to not disrupt the chemistry, would mean Songilia or Massenburg would have been thrust into the starting line-up during the heart of the playoffs.
We were not getting by KG’s T-Wolves, Tim Duncan’s Spurs, Ben and Rasheed Wallace’s Pistons and definitely not the Shaq and Karl Malone led Lakers with that paper thin front line while a potentially healthy Webber watched from the bench for the sake of “chemistry”.
And you know, for as much as the Webber condemners mourn the loss of that season because of our five time all-star’s very presence, crazy as it may sound, it was quite possible to use him, even at a fraction of his strength, as a positive rather than a burden.
I will present again the 2004 John Hollinger article referred to above, fittingly titled “Will Sacramento let Chris Webber kill its chance for an NBA title?
"A hobbled Webber, if deployed correctly, is better than no Webber at all: His height causes match-up problems for opposing defenses, and he can knock down open jump shots when fed off the pick-and-roll …
… They did it in game five of the Mavericks series and game one of the T-Wolves series with the ball going through Bibby setting up Miller and Peja in the motion offense, while Webb hit jumpers from the high post off the pick and roll.”
-John Hollinger, SLATE, Suicide Kings, 2004 (written during the T-wolves playoff series.)
What truly irks me though, is that the same people who decry Webber’s attempt to return from a major knee surgery, which ultimately claimed his career as it had the careers of many before him, and failing to do so successfully, are undoubtedly the same people who questioned the toughness of Bobby Jackson for being, in their opinion, too slow to return from a debilitating abdominal strain that same year.
He’s ridiculed for the Michigan time-out, for the booster scandal, the constant injuries, the issues with Don Nelson in Golden State, the issues in D.C., not gelling with Iverson, not being enough to push Detroit over the edge, never getting that elusive championship.
Sacramento doesn’t need to be another member of the herd. The man gave us six and a half years of his prime, and neither the Kings nor he was the same when he left. Let’s leave it at that … and cheer when his number is retired.
Five All-Star teams, five All-NBA teams, five top 10 MVP vote finishes, top 50 all-time player in efficiency (according to Hollinger's ticker tape), first overall pick 1993, Rookie of the Year 93-94, rebounding champion 98-99
That's funny; I must have missed "player-coach" in his list of accolades.
It wasn’t his job to divvy out his own playing time; that honor was left up to Adelman. And by every indication, from my research, it was, in fact, coach Adelman’s decision:
"As soon as he returned to the lineup, Webber was given stewardship of the Kings' offense. Adelman's semi-defensible reasoning was that, by letting Webber hold the ball and pass to teammates from the top of the key, the Kings' star could be coaxed back to his high-flying C-Webb form—and just in time for the playoffs."
-John Hollinger, SLATE, Suicide Kings, 2004 (written during the T-wolves playoff series.)
I have been scouring Google with every conceivable search combination to uncover this insidious no start/no play ultimatum made by Webber which as you say, invariably lead to the demise of our beloved Kings’ best chance at a championship and your condemnation of arguably the greatest player in the Sacramento era.
Although I was unsuccessful in that regard, I did however find two interesting excerpts from the Sac Bee made at the time:
March 7, 2004
“Sacramento power forward Chris Webber will have his first back-to-back test tonight against Orlando, and head coach Rick Adelman is wondering whether he should even take it. ""What's waiting for us later is too important for us to rush things now,"" Adelman told the Sacramento Bee.
Adelman will meet with trainer Pete Youngman to decide on Webber's status. The Kings played in Miami yesterday, where Webber played in his third game after rehabbing his surgically repaired knee all season. Webber has yet to practice on back-to-back days.
Webber also told the Bee he desperately wants to play, but understands his coach's rationale.”
March 1, 2004
“All-Star forward Brad Miller (foot) returned from a seven-game absence on Sunday, and after looking good with 16 points and 10 boards, promptly offered his starting spot to Chris Webber.”
And while the use of Webber was Adelman’s decision, I don’t believe he can be “faulted” for it either. There are two main aspects of this that revisionist historians either simply don’t understand or choose to ignore all together.
The first, of course, is that a healthy Webber would have made that year’s Kings nearly unbeatable. (I use “nearly” for political correctness purposes). I don’t believe this is even an argument among the Webber condemners.
Of course, there was no way of knowing then that he would never regain his form. The only way to find out at the time was to keep him on the court and hope he found his groove.
But the much more important reason is pure logistics. The Kings were already running along the razor’s edge risking having all of the season’s “success” crushed by the injury bug again. They’re lack of depth due to injuries that season was epitomized when Peeler was suspended during the T-wolves series:
“Peeler's absence brings an already thin Kings' rotation down to only six players. Forward Brad Miller is the first and most prominent player off the bench but with Peeler and guard Bobby Jackson (abdomen) both out Rodney Buford is the only remaining guard on the Sacramento pine. Forward Darius Songaila may see increased minutes as well.”
-FanballNews.com, May 17, 2004.
What does this have to do with Webber?
Vlade was on borrowed time (as evident by completely shutting down and retiring the next season for the Lakers) and was already slowing due to back troubles. Miller had also missed extended time with foot and elbow problems, the latter of which Miller admitted wouldn’t fully heal until after the season.
That means a very realistic season ending injury to either, and a benching of Webber to not disrupt the chemistry, would mean Songilia or Massenburg would have been thrust into the starting line-up during the heart of the playoffs.
We were not getting by KG’s T-Wolves, Tim Duncan’s Spurs, Ben and Rasheed Wallace’s Pistons and definitely not the Shaq and Karl Malone led Lakers with that paper thin front line while a potentially healthy Webber watched from the bench for the sake of “chemistry”.
And you know, for as much as the Webber condemners mourn the loss of that season because of our five time all-star’s very presence, crazy as it may sound, it was quite possible to use him, even at a fraction of his strength, as a positive rather than a burden.
I will present again the 2004 John Hollinger article referred to above, fittingly titled “Will Sacramento let Chris Webber kill its chance for an NBA title?
"A hobbled Webber, if deployed correctly, is better than no Webber at all: His height causes match-up problems for opposing defenses, and he can knock down open jump shots when fed off the pick-and-roll …
… They did it in game five of the Mavericks series and game one of the T-Wolves series with the ball going through Bibby setting up Miller and Peja in the motion offense, while Webb hit jumpers from the high post off the pick and roll.”
-John Hollinger, SLATE, Suicide Kings, 2004 (written during the T-wolves playoff series.)
What truly irks me though, is that the same people who decry Webber’s attempt to return from a major knee surgery, which ultimately claimed his career as it had the careers of many before him, and failing to do so successfully, are undoubtedly the same people who questioned the toughness of Bobby Jackson for being, in their opinion, too slow to return from a debilitating abdominal strain that same year.
He’s ridiculed for the Michigan time-out, for the booster scandal, the constant injuries, the issues with Don Nelson in Golden State, the issues in D.C., not gelling with Iverson, not being enough to push Detroit over the edge, never getting that elusive championship.
Sacramento doesn’t need to be another member of the herd. The man gave us six and a half years of his prime, and neither the Kings nor he was the same when he left. Let’s leave it at that … and cheer when his number is retired.
Ah, this thread brings back memories. What a charismatic, polarizing force of nature Webb always was. Love him or hate him, there was never any denying his presence. He was larger then life and he gave that same presence to THE TEAM.
I hope and pray that those on the polar opposite of my feelings on him and what he did/meant to this team will stay home on the night we retire his jersey, so the man can get the tribute from the fans that he desrves for battles well fought and memories that will last a life time. On that night, at least, let there be peace from those that hate.
Chris, from the bottom of my King loving heart, thank you for the glory years.
I hope and pray that those on the polar opposite of my feelings on him and what he did/meant to this team will stay home on the night we retire his jersey, so the man can get the tribute from the fans that he desrves for battles well fought and memories that will last a life time. On that night, at least, let there be peace from those that hate.
Chris, from the bottom of my King loving heart, thank you for the glory years.
Bill Simmons has an article on Webber's retirement here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080328
I remember reading about the Penny Hardaway / Chris Webber trade back when Orlando was riding high with Shaq and Penny. The article really made it seem that Orlando got the better of the deal. But in retrospect, Webber was clearly the better player, with the better career.
For me, Chris is one of those players that I didn't really appreciate until he was gone. I never understood what he did out there but at the end he'd always have 7 or 8 assists and over 10 rebounds to go with his points. He made it all look easy. The ball just came to him. When he did show his one-on-one ability, it was pretty amazing, but he didn't do it often. I, unfortunately, never had the chance to watch him in college or when he first joined the Kings. But he was the clear leader of this team in a way nobody has been since.
Thank you C-Webb.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080328
I remember reading about the Penny Hardaway / Chris Webber trade back when Orlando was riding high with Shaq and Penny. The article really made it seem that Orlando got the better of the deal. But in retrospect, Webber was clearly the better player, with the better career.
For me, Chris is one of those players that I didn't really appreciate until he was gone. I never understood what he did out there but at the end he'd always have 7 or 8 assists and over 10 rebounds to go with his points. He made it all look easy. The ball just came to him. When he did show his one-on-one ability, it was pretty amazing, but he didn't do it often. I, unfortunately, never had the chance to watch him in college or when he first joined the Kings. But he was the clear leader of this team in a way nobody has been since.
Thank you C-Webb.
My impression of him is a little different. It starts with that, but there's more to it. There's the impression of a great desire in him to be great and/or silence critics and/or be liked. Whatever the root of his motivation was, his actions were that of someone who badly wanted to fulfill the expectations placed upon him. So while he may not have immediately lived up to the greatness expected of him, he was constantly and fiercely trying to improve himself and his game to get there.
The result was controversial, but it was also somewhat successful. At least until bad luck sent him to the floor in a heap. But the injury that robbed him of his chance for greatness did not stop him from wanting to achieve it. And again that desire, whatever the motivation, led to more controversy.
Personally, I rooted for him to reach his goal. I accepted the apparent selfishness and cheered for the determination. I appreciated both the flaws and the skills. I wanted him to win, for my team and for himself.
It didn't happen quite the way I had hoped. I'm pretty sure the end result is not what he had hoped for either. But I am satisfied, and I am happy because the journey was a hell of a ride. And it is that journey that is the reason I follow sports and why I love competition. I just hope he is happy, too.
The result was controversial, but it was also somewhat successful. At least until bad luck sent him to the floor in a heap. But the injury that robbed him of his chance for greatness did not stop him from wanting to achieve it. And again that desire, whatever the motivation, led to more controversy.
Personally, I rooted for him to reach his goal. I accepted the apparent selfishness and cheered for the determination. I appreciated both the flaws and the skills. I wanted him to win, for my team and for himself.
It didn't happen quite the way I had hoped. I'm pretty sure the end result is not what he had hoped for either. But I am satisfied, and I am happy because the journey was a hell of a ride. And it is that journey that is the reason I follow sports and why I love competition. I just hope he is happy, too.
Excellent post, IMHO. Webber wasn't perfect but his comment to Ailene Voisin sums it all up for me:
I don't know about the world but I know how this board was when THE TEAM was taking us higher than we'd ever been. And without Chris Webber, there would have been nothing comparable.
Yes, he's human and made mistakes. But his desire was always to win. Is there really anything more important for a team leader?
I don't know about the world but I know how this board was when THE TEAM was taking us higher than we'd ever been. And without Chris Webber, there would have been nothing comparable.
Yes, he's human and made mistakes. But his desire was always to win. Is there really anything more important for a team leader?