Rebuilding without Cousins

kingjatt said:
Not sure if its true or not but on ESPN 1320 they mentioned that the feeling inside the building is fear with regards to trading Cousins. Fear that they wouldn't be able to replace his talent thru the crapshoot that is the draft sending this team into a further spiral of irrelevancy. A rebuild is long and hard and is not always successful, another failed rebuild could mean 10 more years of no playoffs, that would mean possibly 20 straight years of no post-season play! No one in the building is willing to risk that especially Vivek who has payments to make on that building, they would rather chug away trying to claw at a pipe dream of an 8th seed with a 235 million dollar Cousins rather than tear it down and at least attempt to do things the right way. The ESPN guys were saying that it is more likely than fans realize that the kings keep Cousins and keep trying this approach. A Cousins trade means there is no more Cousins to blame and many careers and livelihoods would be on the line should a rebuild fail.
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This team is already worse than irrelevant. The Sacramento Kings were a league wide punchline already and now this season you have Gay openly talking about wanting out, Lawson missing practice under suspicious circumstances, Barnes allegedly choking a woman and Cousins punching a guy in a NYC club, Cousins screaming at a reporter in the Kings locker room, and now the news about Afflalo refusing to enter a game after the Kings got blown out by the worst team on the Western Conference.

How much worse do they think things are going to get? Who will be left on the roster after this season? Cousins, the rookies, WCS, Koufos, Barnes and Temple. What offseason moves do they think they can make to turn that chicken **** into chicken salad?

And there might be rational explanations for many or all of these things but honestly I'm reaching the point where I don't care to try and defend them or look for an angle where things don't look so bad.

Any competent front office/ownership would be able to either build a competitive team around Cousins or (if they come to the conclusion that they don't have the means to do that) trade him and rebuild.

Being afraid you can't successfully rebuild is admitting that either you (or the people you hired) aren't good at their jobs.

And careers and livelihoods SHOULD be on the line already. Cousins is now in his 7th season and has never made the playoffs. All 14 of the other players to make the most recent all-NBA 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams have not only made the playoffs in their careers, they ALL made the playoffs last SEASON. Either Cousins isn't as good as his numbers suggest or the Kings have utterly failed to put good enough players around him to make the playoffs just once.

Who knows if this is even legit information but for me to read that "rebuilds are long and hard and not always successful" as some sort of justification for maintaining this treadmill of mediocrity and crappy basketball only punctuated nationally by embarrassing incidents involving bad decisons (add Malone's firing, "Stauskas?" and countless others to the list from this season) is infuriating to me.

Either convince me (and yourselves apparently) that you have the resolve and wherewithal to build a winner around Boogie or the ability to successfully rebuild this team. Don't tell me that you're going to stay the course out of fear that it will get worse.
 
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funkykingston said:
This team is already worse than irrelevant. The Sacramento Kings were a league wide punchline already and now this season you have Gay openly talking about wanting out, Lawson missing practice under suspicious circumstances, Barnes allegedly choking a woman and Cousins punching a guy in a NYC club, Cousins screaming at a reporter in the Kings locker room, and now the news about Afflalo refusing to enter a game after the Kings got blown out by the worst team on the Western Conference.

How much worse do they think things are going to get? Who will be left on the roster after this season? Cousins, the rookies, WCS, Koufos, Barnes and Temple. What offseason moves do they think they can make to turn that chicken **** into chicken salad?

And there might be rational explanations for many or all of these things but honestly I'm reaching the point where I don't care to try and defend them or look for an angle where things don't look so bad.

Any competent front office/ownership would be able to either build a competitive team around Cousins or (if they come to the conclusion that they don't have the means to do that) trade him and rebuild.

Being afraid you can't successfully rebuild is admitting that either you (or the people you hired) aren't good at their jobs.

And careers and livelihoods SHOULD be on the line already. Cousins is now in his 7th season and has never made the playoffs. All 14 of the other players to make the most recent all-NBA 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams have not only made the playoffs in their careers, they ALL made the playoffs last SEASON. Either Cousins isn't as good as his numbers suggest or the Kings have utterly failed to put good enough players around him to make the playoffs just once.

Who knows if this is even legit information but for me to read that "rebuilds are long and hard and not always successful" as some sort of justification for maintaining this treadmill of mediocrity and crappy basketball only punctuated nationally by embarrassing incidents involving bad decisons (add Malone's firing, "Stauskas?" and countless others to the list from this season) is infuriating to me.

Either convince me (and yourselves apparently) that you have the resolve and wherewithal to build a winner around Boogie or the ability to successfully rebuild this team. Don't tell me that you're going to stay the course out of fear that it will get worse.
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Had to highlight these two points because they make the most sense moving forward. Either the people you bring in are idiots and scared or Vivek is putting pressure on everybody behind closed doors to continue to make a push for the irrelevant 8th seed...which is even worse because it only hinders the inevitable and when you have a boulder that's coming towards you, you panic and you have no vision, only in the present of wondering when it's going to fall on your head.
 
kingsboi said:
Had to highlight these two points because they make the most sense moving forward. Either the people you bring in are idiots and scared or Vivek is putting pressure on everybody behind closed doors to continue to make a push for the irrelevant 8th seed...which is even worse because it only hinders the inevitable and when you have a boulder that's coming towards you, you panic and you have no vision, only in the present of wondering when it's going to fall on your head.
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Oh please. You act as though we're knee deep in a swamp full of alligators with no one to save us but Bozo the One-Legged Monkey.

There are not, contrary to what you might think, only two-possible scenarios. It is quite possible the people brought in AREN'T idiots and Vivek ISN'T putting pressure on everybody behind closed doors.
 
funkykingston said:
This team is already worse than irrelevant. The Sacramento Kings were a league wide punchline already and now this season you have Gay openly talking about wanting out, Lawson missing practice under suspicious circumstances, Barnes allegedly choking a woman and Cousins punching a guy in a NYC club, Cousins screaming at a reporter in the Kings locker room, and now the news about Afflalo refusing to enter a game after the Kings got blown out by the worst team on the Western Conference.

How much worse do they think things are going to get? Who will be left on the roster after this season? Cousins, the rookies, WCS, Koufos, Barnes and Temple. What offseason moves do they think they can make to turn that chicken **** into chicken salad?

And there might be rational explanations for many or all of these things but honestly I'm reaching the point where I don't care to try and defend them or look for an angle where things don't look so bad.

Any competent front office/ownership would be able to either build a competitive team around Cousins or (if they come to the conclusion that they don't have the means to do that) trade him and rebuild.

Being afraid you can't successfully rebuild is admitting that either you (or the people you hired) aren't good at their jobs.

And careers and livelihoods SHOULD be on the line already. Cousins is now in his 7th season and has never made the playoffs. All 14 of the other players to make the most recent all-NBA 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams have not only made the playoffs in their careers, they ALL made the playoffs last SEASON. Either Cousins isn't as good as his numbers suggest or the Kings have utterly failed to put good enough players around him to make the playoffs just once.

Who knows if this is even legit information but for me to read that "rebuilds are long and hard and not always successful" as some sort of justification for maintaining this treadmill of mediocrity and crappy basketball only punctuated nationally by embarrassing incidents involving bad decisons (add Malone's firing, "Stauskas?" and countless others to the list from this season) is infuriating to me.

Either convince me (and yourselves apparently) that you have the resolve and wherewithal to build a winner around Boogie or the ability to successfully rebuild this team. Don't tell me that you're going to stay the course out of fear that it will get worse.
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Rudy Gay is losing trade value by the day. The longer we hold on the worse it gets. I don't think we will end up getting any value in return
 
VF21 said:
Oh please. You act as though we're knee deep in a swamp full of alligators with no one to save us but Bozo the One-Legged Monkey.

There are not, contrary to what you might think, only two-possible scenarios. It is quite possible the people brought in AREN'T idiots and Vivek ISN'T putting pressure on everybody behind closed doors.
Click to expand...

You obviously will believe what you want to and I will do the same. You don't think we are knee deep in a swamp of alligators? Who exactly will save us from getting eaten from alligators? enlighten me.
 
KingsFan80 said:
Even though Cousins cause negative press for himself and the team, I honestly don't care about it. I just want the team to win and I am not sure he can co-exist with another star player, which is what we need to win here
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You mean like on the last two world championship USA men's basketball teams where he was frequently played as a bench player?
 
Warhawk said:
You mean like on the last two world championship USA men's basketball teams where he was frequently played as a bench player?
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Yeah, I don't see any issue with Cousins and a second star. He wants to win. He's had six seasons where he hasn't been able to do it on his own. I think if you give Cousins a complimentary star player who has that same sense of fight and loyalty he'd love it.
 
funkykingston said:
Yeah, I don't see any issue with Cousins and a second star. He wants to win. He's had six seasons where he hasn't been able to do it on his own. I think if you give Cousins a complimentary star player who has that same sense of fight and loyalty he'd love it.
Click to expand...

I think we get in trouble when we tend to generalize. These players are human beings, not robots. They all think differently and act differently. Most of the great one's come with ego's to match, and rightly so. You can't be great if you don't think your great. The two things go hand in hand. That's why all the great shooters just keep shooting after they miss. Because they truly think every shot is going in. So, that said, put the right player or players next to Cousins, and I think it works. Put a shrinking violet next to Cousins, and he disappears.

Cousins is all about respect. I think his definition is a bit faulty at times, because he seems to want it before he gives it. Add in that he lets his emotions dictate his actions at times, and he can be difficult to play with in the moment. I want to emphasis the in the moment part. I think he fully regrets some of his in the moment actions later, and for the most part, I think most of his teammates know that. The question is, are they willing to tolerate it? Well, I think if the team is winning, yes! As they say, winning cures a lot of ill's.

One problem that great players in any profession have is that they have difficulty understanding why you can't do what they do. Why do you miss the open shot? If your going to miss, I may as well take the shot myself. And in may cases, that's what happens. Unfortunately when you take the team out of team play, you tend to lose more games than you win. Because your also robbing the team, subconsciously, of it's desire. To be a part of a team, you have to feel like you matter and that your contributing.

In short, you need to put talented players, hopefully star players, that will demand the same respect from Cousins that he demands from them. Players that won't back down, and that will call him out when he makes a mistake. It's not a one way street. I think Cousins gets along quite well with that kind of player.
 
Well, I was way, way off on what the Kings could get for Cousins.

A mediocre rookie SG the same age as McLemore and a top 3 protected pick that will likely be in the 12-16 range.

I didn't see a path forward to building a winner around Cousins and thought the time was right for a rebuild but I never thought they'd walk away with so little.

Either the market for Boogie was really that bad or Vlade is completely over his head as a GM. Probably a healthy amount of both actually.
 
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funkykingston said:
Well, I was way, way off on what the Kings could get for Cousins.

A mediocre rookie SG the same age as McLemore and a top 3 protected pick that will likely be in the 12-16 range.

I didn't see a path forward to building a winner around Cousins and thought the time was right for a rebuild but I never thought they'd walk away with so little.

Either the market for Boogie was really that bad or Vlade is completely over his head as a GM. Probably a healthy amount of both actually.
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Most of us were way off on a Cousins return, but not sure if that's related to Vlade's inability to orchestrate a trade or how other teams valued Cuz. It seems Brad Stevens wanted nothing to do with him and that's the team that appeared to have the most to offer.

With the NO pick I'm starting to look at players in the mid 1st round range. Our own pick, now almost certainly assured and correct me if I'm wrong, will be anywhere from 2-14 depending on how Philli fares.

update.. I guess Philli could surge and make the playoffs making the pick non lottery...fuc
 
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Do people here think Bogdanovic still comes over? Since the Kings are now officially "rebuilding" and should be one of the worst 5 teams next year why would he bother?
 
If you can't build then you can't build. The Kings are a child emptying a bucket of legos onto the floor, telling the fans that they're rebuilding. As soon a something starts to form, they smash it with a fist and let someone else vacuum up the best parts.
 
As of today, what's our lineup going to be?

What's Evans health like? I believe he just got back from another injury, but has only been playing limited minutes.
 
funkykingston said:
Well, I was way, way off on what the Kings could get for Cousins.

A mediocre rookie SG the same age as McLemore and a top 3 protected pick that will likely be in the 12-16 range.

I didn't see a path forward to building a winner around Cousins and thought the time was right for a rebuild but I never thought they'd walk away with so little.

Either the market for Boogie was really that bad or Vlade is completely over his head as a GM. Probably a healthy amount of both actually.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I think a little more the latter. I felt given his perception that your value of him was kind, but even I was surprised at the end value. While I don't believe Vlade is a capable, standard GM with strong negotiating I genuinely believe that the offers were not healthy. There are other members of the brain trust working on it. A lot of GMs were genuinely afraid for their jobs in taking Cousins on
 
It's going to be interesting to see what direction Vlade chooses to go with his vets. I would look to unload Afflalo, Collison and obviously Rudy for late 1sts and prospects.
 
CelticsFan said:
Do people here think Bogdanovic still comes over? Since the Kings are now officially "rebuilding" and should be one of the worst 5 teams next year why would he bother?
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Not convinced now! One thing I do know about Bogdan is that he wants to win. He is one of the best players in Europe so I suspect the offers he will be getting from European teams will be pretty comparable to what he might get from the Kings (keeping in mind that salaries in Europe are after tax)
 
upinsmoke said:
It's going to be interesting to see what direction Vlade chooses to go with his vets. I would look to unload Afflalo, Collison and obviously Rudy for late 1sts and prospects.
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HAHA! Mate look at what we got for Cousins....no way we are competent enough to pull any solid trades for those vets. Knowing how Vlade operates, he probably gives an unprotected first round pick to get rid off them.
 
The Kings have a small market and an economy minded owner which makes trading for big name players very difficult. Some players have even come here and refused to play. Jason Terry comes to mind.

That leaves the draft as the main way to get an all-star caliber player. Unfortunately the Kings have managed to draft a lot of journeymen and worse players in the last 10 years with a few exceptions.
Coach J is the one bright spot. I hope he has some input into future trades and draft picks because the team needs a lot of help.
 
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