Rebuilding Takes Time, for sure

[CruzDude]

Just browsing around on web and happened upon the Kings roster of 1998-99, the start of some thing big: Jon Barry, Ollie Miller (the really BIG MOUND OF REBOUND), CWebb, Pollard, Jason Williams, Vlade, Peja, on and on. Ahhh, the good ole days. How fun those next 4 years were. But it took awhile to get there. Us old timers remember all too well the 90's before 1998.

Then looked up the Kings roster from 2008-09 and WHAM! what a surprise, only 3 from that opening day roster are still on the team: Cisco, Beno and JT!!!!

In 2009 were drafted Tyreke and Casspi and thru trades we got Greene and Landry for a total of 7 from last year that are still on the team today. 4 of them were last year starters: Beno, Tyreke, Casspi, Landry. This year adds two bigs in Dalembert and DMC and a total of 6 or 7 new players. Rebuilding now, not starting over thank goodness.

So, patience is now the order of the day. Adding Dalembert to the starting group will be a major step up over Hawes plus the new pieces. I'd expect 40 wins this year (a big 15 game improvement) and see how the group melds and how the chemistry on-court develops. If both happen well, then 40 is my over/under this year. 2011-12 is when we can begin looking at bottom half of the western conference playoffs with my over/under then at 52.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i remember pre-1998 days.. cheering even though i know we weren't going to win

the transformation is happening pretty quick as soon as ownership decided to blow it up and start over again.

 

[Casspi]

this is whats very good in paul westphal
he is dosent only coach the team but also BUILDs the team
and this team has a lot to build on
who knows maybe in 2 years the kings will run for the championship

 

[Section 101]

Then looked up the Kings roster from 2008-09 and WHAM! what a surprise, only 3 from that opening day roster are still on the team: Cisco, Beno and JT!!!!

In 2009 were drafted Tyreke and Casspi and thru trades we got Greene and Landry for a total of 7 from last year that are still on the team today. 4 of them were last year starters: Beno, Tyreke, Casspi, Landry. This year adds two bigs in Dalembert and DMC and a total of 6 or 7 new players. Rebuilding now, not starting over thank goodness.

Donte was drafted the same year (08) as JT then traded to the Kings.

 

[kingsboi]

Sometimes it takes TOO long, but that's why we are fans and patient because it definently doesn't happen overnight unless your the Lakers or the Celtics. As for our rebuilding process, so far so good, lots of depth and nothing but youngsters excluding two or three players of course. Only thing I am hoping for now is that we will be set for the next decade or pretty damn close to it because our old Kings team only lasted what...4 years? then we were back to square one. Anyways, I expect playoffs in two years absolutely, and winning 40 games this year or atleast close to it, is not out of the question at all.

 

[bajaden]

I thought maybe I would use this occasion to take a trip down memory lane, as a comparison between then and now. Different approaches for different times. The difference between having someone behind the wheel that knows what he's doing and someone that either doesn't, or doesn't care. So lets take a look at the Kings that arrived from Kansas City. We started the journey with a roster made up of these players.

Eddie Johnson: A 27 year old, 6'7" SF. Eddie was a great shooter. You did not want to leave him open.
Reggie Theus: A 29 year old, 6'6" PF/SG. Reggie was one of the better players in the NBA at the time.
Mke Woodson: A 28 year old, 6'5" SG. He was one of my favorites. Good all around player.
Larry Drew: A 28 year old 6'1" PG. Drew was comfortable starting or off the bench. He was a solid player.
LaSalle Thompson: A 25 year old, 6'10" C. LaSalle was a physcial player and a fan favorite.
Otis Thorpe: A 24 year old, 6'10" PF. Just about to emerge as one of the better PF's in the league.
Terry Tyler: A 30 year old, 6'7" SF. Tyler was athletic and a career journeyman.
Mark Olberding: A 30 year old, 6'8" PF. Another crowd favorite. Olberding was one of those glue guys.
Carl Henry: A 25 year old, 6'6" SG. Henry was a raw player at the time and was one and done with the Kings.
Joe Kleine: A 25 year old, 6'11" C. Kings 1st round pick that year. No doubt he was picked for need, as he was not the BPO.
Michael Adams: A 24 year old, 5'11" PG. Michael ended up being a pretty good player. Just not for the Kings.

This was the team that started our legacy here in Sacramento. It came with a newly appointed GM at the suggestion of the NBA front office. One Joe Axelson. The very man that traded Oscar Robertson just as he was entering his prime. This team went on to a 37/45 won/loss record that was good enough to make the playoffs. That was when the first round was best of 5. The team went 0 for 3 and out.

That next offseason the Kings traded Mike Woodson and his 15.6 PPG along with Larry Drew and his 11.9 PPG, and a future 1st round pick, to the Clippers for Derek Smith, who was taken in the second round if memory serves and had a breakout year two years earlier averaging 23 PPG. He picked up right where he left off the next season averaging 22 PPG for 11 games before tearing up his knee. Axelson apparently did little in the way of research about the knee. Smith, who relied heavily on his athleticism to score, was never the same player again. He played 3 seasons with the Kings before throwing in the towel on his career. 52 games the 1st year. 35 the 2nd and 29 the 3rd.

The following season Eddie Johnson and his 18.7 PPG went out the door in exchange for Ed Pickney and his 6.2 PPG. Two entirely different players in what they brought to the table. Clearly the Kings got the worse of this deal. Pickney's stay with the Kings was short lived. The probably should have put a revolving door on the clubhouse.

The next season the Kings traded their young PF, Otis Thorpe who had averaged 20.8 PPG along with 10.2 RPG the previous season. In return they aquired the great Jim Peterson (8.9 PPG, 6.3 RPG) and Ralph Sampson. Sampson arrived with two, count them, two bad knee's. Sampson had played in only 19 games the previous year in Houston. He played in 26 games that season, the 1989/90 season, and in 25 games the following year. One year later he was out of basketball. Otis went on to play 15 more seasons, 21 in all and ended up with a career average of 14 PPG and 8.2 RPG.

The same year they traded for Sampson the Kings also traded Reggie Theus and his 21.6 PPG along with 6.3 APG for Randy Wittman and his 3.8 PPG and 0.7 APG. Wittman was latter traded along with LaSalle Thompson to the Pacers for Wayman Tisdale.

By the 1990/91 season the Kings had gone from a promising and still fairly young team that had recorded a 37/45 won/loss record to a team that was very young and inexperienced, and with vetreans, except for a few exceptions, that were fringe NBA players. This team compiled a record of 25 wins and 57 losses. Here's the roster:

Wayman Tisdale: A 25 year old, 6'9" PF. Wayman was a good player who never quite
Lived up to expectations. He may have had the biggest butt in the NBA
Antoine Carr: A 29 year old, 6'9" PF. He was aquired from Atlanta in a trade for Kenny
Smith.
Lion Simmons: A 22 year old, 6'7" SF. The Kings 1st or four 1st round picks that year.
Travis Mays: A 22 year old, 6'2" PG/SG. The Kings 2nd, 1st round pick that year.
Duane Causwell: A 22 year old, 7'0" C. The Kings 3rd, 1st round pick that year.
Anthony Bonner: A 22 year old, 6'8" PF. The Kings 4th, 1st round pick that year.
Roy Sparrow: A 32 year old, 6'2" PG. Career journeyman. Brought in to tutor Mays.
Jim Les: A 27 year old, 5'11" PG. 4th sting player at best. Still lives in Sacramento I
believe.
Leon Woods: A 28 year old, 6'3" SG. Retired at seasons end. Now an NBA referee.
Bob Hanson: A 30 year old, 6'6" SG. Played in 38 games. Retired at seasons end.
Bill Wennington: A 27 year old, 7'0" C. Played one season and was traded to the Bulls
for Dennis Hopson, who retired after one season with the Kings.
Ralph Sampson: A 30 year old, 7'4" C. He retired after one more season.
Eric Leckner: A 24 year old, 6'11" C. I believe he was lost in the expansion draft to the
then Charlotte Hornets in the offseason.
Anthony Fredrick: A 26 year old, 6'7" SF. He played 3 more seasons.
Rick Calloway: A 24 year old, 6'6" SG. His one and only season.

After 5 years of wheeling and dealing, by three different GM's, Joe Axelson, Bill Russell, and Dick Motta, this is what we had left. So the next time your upset with Petrie, remember, it could be worse. I think I can safely say he would have done a better job. All three GM's went for the quick fix. Motta had the best chance to make an impact with the draft, having four 1st round picks. He managed to strike gold on only one, Simmons, who unfortunately ended up being plagued with injuries that ultimately ended his career. Lets take a quick look at the drafts those five years. Who was drafted, and who they passed on.

1985/86: Joe Kleine. Sixth pick in the draft. Could have had: Chris Mullin, Detlef Schremp, Charles Oakley, Karl Malone, A.C. Green, and Terry Porter.

1986/87: Harold Pressley. Could have had: Scott Skiles, Arvidas Sabonis, Mark Price, Dennis Rodman, and Nate McMillan.

1987/88: Kenny Smith. Could have had: Kevin Johnson, Reggie Miller, Horace Grant, Mark Jackson, and Derick Mckey

1988/89: Rickey Berry. I don't believe that anyone picked after him was a better player. Berry commited sucide after his first season.

1889/90: Pervis Ellison. Terrible draft. But, could have had: Sean Elliott, Glen Rice, Tim Hardaway, Vlade Divac, and Cliff Robinson.

1990/91: Lionel Simmons: Played only 7 seasons in his career due to injury.
Travis Mays: Lasted only 3 seasons in the NBA.
Duane Causwell: 11 seasons. Averaged 4.9 PPG and 4.2 RPG for his career.
Anthony Bonner: Lasted only 6 seasons and was out of the league.
This was a weak draft, but we could have had: Terry Mills, Tyrone Hill, Dee Brown, Elden Campbell, Toni Kukoc, and the notorius Jayson Williams. Ironicaly the Kings second round pick that year was Bimbo Coles who was traded to another team on draft day. Coles ended up playing 14 seasons in the NBA.

Most of this is from some research and my flawed memory, so I'm sure I've left some things out, or possibly have some times wrong. But the essence of what happened in those five years is there. It didn't improve, and we didn't get to the playoffs until Petrie arrived in the 1994/95 season. That year we drafted Brian Grant, Michael Smith and Lawrence Funderburke. The following season, the 1995/96 season we made the playoffs.

The old days wern't much fun, but they are insightful when compared to todays process.

 

[gunks]

I thought maybe I would use this occasion to take a trip down memory lane, as a comparison between then and now. Different approaches for different times. The difference between having someone behind the wheel that knows what he's doing and someone that either doesn't, or doesn't care. So lets take a look at the Kings that arrived from Kansas City. We started the journey with a roster made up of these players.

Eddie Johnson: A 27 year old, 6'7" SF. Eddie was a great shooter. You did not want to leave him open.
Reggie Theus: A 29 year old, 6'6" PF/SG. Reggie was one of the better players in the NBA at the time.
Mke Woodson: A 28 year old, 6'5" SG. He was one of my favorites. Good all around player.
Larry Drew: A 28 year old 6'1" PG. Drew was comfortable starting or off the bench. He was a solid player.
LaSalle Thompson: A 25 year old, 6'10" C. LaSalle was a physcial player and a fan favorite.
Otis Thorpe: A 24 year old, 6'10" PF. Just about to emerge as one of the better PF's in the league.
Terry Tyler: A 30 year old, 6'7" SF. Tyler was athletic and a career journeyman.
Mark Olberding: A 30 year old, 6'8" PF. Another crowd favorite. Olberding was one of those glue guys.
Carl Henry: A 25 year old, 6'6" SG. Henry was a raw player at the time and was one and done with the Kings.
Joe Kleine: A 25 year old, 6'11" C. Kings 1st round pick that year. No doubt he was picked for need, as he was not the BPO.
Michael Adams: A 24 year old, 5'11" PG. Michael ended up being a pretty good player. Just not for the Kings.

This was the team that started our legacy here in Sacramento. It came with a newly appointed GM at the suggestion of the NBA front office. One Joe Axelson. The very man that traded Oscar Robertson just as he was entering his prime. This team went on to a 37/45 won/loss record that was good enough to make the playoffs. That was when the first round was best of 5. The team went 0 for 3 and out.

That next offseason the Kings traded Mike Woodson and his 15.6 PPG along with Larry Drew and his 11.9 PPG, and a future 1st round pick, to the Clippers for Derek Smith, who was taken in the second round if memory serves and had a breakout year two years earlier averaging 23 PPG. He picked up right where he left off the next season averaging 22 PPG for 11 games before tearing up his knee. Axelson apparently did little in the way of research about the knee. Smith, who relied heavily on his athleticism to score, was never the same player again. He played 3 seasons with the Kings before throwing in the towel on his career. 52 games the 1st year. 35 the 2nd and 29 the 3rd.

The following season Eddie Johnson and his 18.7 PPG went out the door in exchange for Ed Pickney and his 6.2 PPG. Two entirely different players in what they brought to the table. Clearly the Kings got the worse of this deal. Pickney's stay with the Kings was short lived. The probably should have put a revolving door on the clubhouse.

The next season the Kings traded their young PF, Otis Thorpe who had averaged 20.8 PPG along with 10.2 RPG the previous season. In return they aquired the great Jim Peterson (8.9 PPG, 6.3 RPG) and Ralph Sampson. Sampson arrived with two, count them, two bad knee's. Sampson had played in only 19 games the previous year in Houston. He played in 26 games that season, the 1989/90 season, and in 25 games the following year. One year later he was out of basketball. Otis went on to play 15 more seasons, 21 in all and ended up with a career average of 14 PPG and 8.2 RPG.

The same year they traded for Sampson the Kings also traded Reggie Theus and his 21.6 PPG along with 6.3 APG for Randy Wittman and his 3.8 PPG and 0.7 APG. Wittman was latter traded along with LaSalle Thompson to the Pacers for Wayman Tisdale.

By the 1990/91 season the Kings had gone from a promising and still fairly young team that had recorded a 37/45 won/loss record to a team that was very young and inexperienced, and with vetreans, except for a few exceptions, that were fringe NBA players. This team compiled a record of 25 wins and 57 losses. Here's the roster:

Wayman Tisdale: A 25 year old, 6'9" PF. Wayman was a good player who never quite
Lived up to expectations. He may have had the biggest butt in the NBA
Antoine Carr: A 29 year old, 6'9" PF. He was aquired from Atlanta in a trade for Kenny
Smith.
Lion Simmons: A 22 year old, 6'7" SF. The Kings 1st or four 1st round picks that year.
Travis Mays: A 22 year old, 6'2" PG/SG. The Kings 2nd, 1st round pick that year.
Duane Causwell: A 22 year old, 7'0" C. The Kings 3rd, 1st round pick that year.
Anthony Bonner: A 22 year old, 6'8" PF. The Kings 4th, 1st round pick that year.
Roy Sparrow: A 32 year old, 6'2" PG. Career journeyman. Brought in to tutor Mays.
Jim Les: A 27 year old, 5'11" PG. 4th sting player at best. Still lives in Sacramento I
believe.
Leon Woods: A 28 year old, 6'3" SG. Retired at seasons end. Now an NBA referee.
Bob Hanson: A 30 year old, 6'6" SG. Played in 38 games. Retired at seasons end.
Bill Wennington: A 27 year old, 7'0" C. Played one season and was traded to the Bulls
for Dennis Hopson, who retired after one season with the Kings.
Ralph Sampson: A 30 year old, 7'4" C. He retired after one more season.
Eric Leckner: A 24 year old, 6'11" C. I believe he was lost in the expansion draft to the
then Charlotte Hornets in the offseason.
Anthony Fredrick: A 26 year old, 6'7" SF. He played 3 more seasons.
Rick Calloway: A 24 year old, 6'6" SG. His one and only season.

After 5 years of wheeling and dealing, by three different GM's, Joe Axelson, Bill Russell, and Dick Motta, this is what we had left. So the next time your upset with Petrie, remember, it could be worse. I think I can safely say he would have done a better job. All three GM's went for the quick fix. Motta had the best chance to make an impact with the draft, having four 1st round picks. He managed to strike gold on only one, Simmons, who unfortunately ended up being plagued with injuries that ultimately ended his career. Lets take a quick look at the drafts those five years. Who was drafted, and who they passed on.

1985/86: Joe Kleine. Sixth pick in the draft. Could have had: Chris Mullin, Detlef Schremp, Charles Oakley, Karl Malone, A.C. Green, and Terry Porter.

1986/87: Harold Pressley. Could have had: Scott Skiles, Arvidas Sabonis, Mark Price, Dennis Rodman, and Nate McMillan.

1987/88: Kenny Smith. Could have had: Kevin Johnson, Reggie Miller, Horace Grant, Mark Jackson, and Derick Mckey

1988/89: Rickey Berry. I don't believe that anyone picked after him was a better player. Berry commited sucide after his first season.

1889/90: Pervis Ellison. Terrible draft. But, could have had: Sean Elliott, Glen Rice, Tim Hardaway, Vlade Divac, and Cliff Robinson.

1990/91: Lionel Simmons: Played only 7 seasons in his career due to injury.
Travis Mays: Lasted only 3 seasons in the NBA.
Duane Causwell: 11 seasons. Averaged 4.9 PPG and 4.2 RPG for his career.
Anthony Bonner: Lasted only 6 seasons and was out of the league.
This was a weak draft, but we could have had: Terry Mills, Tyrone Hill, Dee Brown, Elden Campbell, Toni Kukoc, and the notorius Jayson Williams. Ironicaly the Kings second round pick that year was Bimbo Coles who was traded to another team on draft day. Coles ended up playing 14 seasons in the NBA.

Most of this is from some research and my flawed memory, so I'm sure I've left some things out, or possibly have some times wrong. But the essence of what happened in those five years is there. It didn't improve, and we didn't get to the playoffs until Petrie arrived in the 1994/95 season. That year we drafted Brian Grant, Michael Smith and Lawrence Funderburke. The following season, the 1995/96 season we made the playoffs.

The old days wern't much fun, but they are insightful when compared to todays process.

Yikes, all that happened before my time really. Kind of puts it in perspective.

I for one am glad that we're coming out of the rebuilding phase and heading into the "climbing back into relevance" phase, which will hopefully lead into a new era of us as one of the West's top teams. You dont really even have to squint anymore to see it happening.

Gotta factor in luck as far as our rebuild is concerned. We missed out on the number one pick and Griffin, bad luck. We got Reke (good luck!). We have terrible luck again in the lotto, falling out of the top 4 in a 4 player draft (baaaad luck). David Kahn is an idiot (good luck! unless you happen to be a Wolves fan). Also, considering Petrie's ability to nab great players late in the draft, I think we're going to look back in a couple years and wonder how in ***** Whiteside fell to us at 33.

The fact that we got Cousins is huge. I have high hopes for the guy. Some of the stuff he was doing in Summer League would be nutty for any big, let alone a rookie. We could have a tougher version of Pau in a couple years. He does need to get in shape, but I think he will. Cousins doesnt really have that "I could care less" bust personality. He's a competitor. He got by in college being chubby, but once he sees that wont cut it in the NBA I think he's going to put in the work and slim down.

Chances are good that Reke/Cuz is going to be a deadly duo in a few seasons. Omri has shown studly flashes (as well as selfishness, I really think Westphal should sell him on a bench Manu type of role where he can be a first option), Greene looks to be a great glue guy in the future (at the least), and I still think JT is going to be a solid part of our core. If Whiteside puts it together in a couple seasons...Woo lard.

I honestly think our young core is going to turn a lot of heads this season, playoffs or not.

 

[Section 101]

Um, didn't the Kings get Sampson from the Warriors. I seem to recall Nellie pushing him off on us.

Just looked it up. Sampson was traded for Jim Peterson. Thorpe was traded for Peterson and Rodney McCray.

 

[bajaden]

Um, didn't the Kings get Sampson from the Warriors. I seem to recall Nellie pushing him off on us.

Just looked it up. Sampson was traded for Jim Peterson. Thorpe was traded for Peterson and Rodney McCray.

Yeah, you could be right. I was having trouble remembering myself. In any event I have the players ending up in the right place even if the path was different. I was a season ticket holder at that time and it was painful to watch Sampson run up and down the floor. It was absolutely amazing how many players passed through the Kings organization in about a 8 year period, and all they did was get worse. There were some good trades of course. Owens for Richmond. I thought the Tisdale trade was a pretty good one. But for the most part, the Kings were like basketball's version of the US open. Just about everyone had a shot of making the team