randymoss1881
Starter
Belinelli and Rondo would be the worst defensive backcourt in recent history.
Rajon Rondo (split)
- Thread starter randymoss1881
- Start date
Belinelli and Rondo would be the worst defensive backcourt in recent history.
Unless rondo recovers his ability and Ben takes a huge step up, we're going to have defensive issues in the backcourt either way. Luckily our front court d should help with that.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Ben isn't a great defender either and he has a poor concept of team defense. I really don't think we lose that much. Rondo is 29, not 39, and his biggest question is effort, not skill. Rondo will be an average defender or better at the PG spot. If he doesn't work out we know what we have in Collison.
The Hammer
All-Star
Y'all need to give the Rondo thing a rest, and some perspective. He was actively on the trading block in Boston for like a year and half. They were just flat out openly shoppping him. That's when players quit playing D. And when he clashed with Carlisle in Dallas, he quit playing D as well.
He's a former first team all-NBA defender.
So basically if we ignore the fact that he's quit on d for most of the last couple years following a serious injury, maybe it will all be different this year?
randymoss1881
Starter
Dude hasn't played defense in 4-5 years but it will suddenly change.
We don't know yet, do we? Why not just wait and see what happens instead of concluding before he even steps on the court at STA that he's not going to play defense?
That's fine. I was responding to the opposite perspective that it's somehow short sighted to have concerns over a guy that hasn't played d in years. He has to prove that's changed, not the other way around.
King Baller
All-Star
I think we are going to be surprised how well Rondo plays on both ends of the court. Rondo was an All Star level player when he was injured. Now it has been 2 1/2 years since he tore the ACL. If he is going to return to All Star form this will be the year.
The Mavericks acquisition of Rondo was a mistake in that Carlisle wasted Rondo limiting his creativity. It was like trying to drive a round peg in a square hole. Prior to that in Boston Ainge is rebuilding for the Brad Stevens era. Rondo was part of the Doc Rivers Celtics and Ainge/Stevens are building a new team which is why they traded the Big Three and Rondo.
So like VF21 says above, "Why not just wait and see what happens instead of concluding before he even steps on the court at STA that he's not going to play defense?"
I think Curry will be the designated gunner off the bench playing the 2 spot in the Dribble Drive.
GO KINGS!!!
The Mavericks acquisition of Rondo was a mistake in that Carlisle wasted Rondo limiting his creativity. It was like trying to drive a round peg in a square hole. Prior to that in Boston Ainge is rebuilding for the Brad Stevens era. Rondo was part of the Doc Rivers Celtics and Ainge/Stevens are building a new team which is why they traded the Big Three and Rondo.
So like VF21 says above, "Why not just wait and see what happens instead of concluding before he even steps on the court at STA that he's not going to play defense?"
I think Curry will be the designated gunner off the bench playing the 2 spot in the Dribble Drive.
GO KINGS!!!
The Hammer
All-Star
Yes.
Chupacabra
Starter
If Rondo quits on D then Karl will have him come off the bench. Even in the worst case scenario a no-defense Rondo is better than Ramon "i forgot how to play basketball" Sessions. I dont think we'll see the worst case scenario. His level of defense will likely be at a middle point between 1st team all defense Rondo and last year's Rondo.
The Hammer
All-Star
So you think Vlade signed Rondo just assuming he wasn't going to play D. You think maybe he even told Rondo "Hey man, I get it, D is hard, don't stress about it, we just need you to sign with us so it looks like we're making progress and to help us sell tickets for the new arena."
You think that's how the conversation went? Because you know it came up. You KNOW they talked about how Rondo has played the last few years.
Or, maybe it went some thing like "Rondo, we're building something special and I want you to be part of it, but I need the Rondo that led the Celtics to a title, is that you?" Rondo: "Hell yes that's me, my knee is fine now, and as long as you'll let me play how I can play, you're going to get 110% from me on both ends."
So, you also think Rondo just suddenly lost his ability to shoot free throws too? You think he's definitely going to hit what... 35% from the line this year?!?
I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. Basically your position boils down to "the past few years don't matter when judging performance" and "teams don't sign guys if they aren't going to improve their weaknesses".
It's great to be hopeful for this year. I am too and haven't given up on the idea that rondo can regain some of his past abilities. But at some point, shouting down little doses of reality gets kind of silly.
Rondo was never a good FT shooter, he is 60% for his career.
And all of that things that you say came up would have come up with Dallas as well- and Rondo saying he is going to be better doesn't necessarily equates to him actually getting better. and the way you are making it up to be is like Vlade auditioned Rondo for the part when the narrative here is largely the other why around.
But I'm not only worried about his defense but also his ofense, the "Rondo was a bad fit in Dallas" argument is valid, but it's not like he just didn't play to his full potential there- he was atrocious:
When they replaced Jameer Nelson or Devin Harris- 2 ok PG's- with him their Net rating went from what is basically GSW (11.4) results to last year's Denver Nuggets. that's the only change in this five- so it's not like people are afraid he won't be an all-star, it's a worry he is a bad basketball player- and if you look at his last years he didn't exactly gave you a reason to think otherwise.
Dude has the worst "respect rating" among all league PG's meaning opponents basically leave him wide open when the ball is not in his hands- making him a liability when he is not handling the ball, and Boston was actually better without him...
With all that said, this is all very premature, and we have yet to see him play in Kings uniform- I'm not saying that he is a definite bust, I'm saying that he is the one that should prove his doubters wrong and not the other way around, and the sentiment some here got that every criticism/doubt/worry about him is ignorant is really hard for me to grasp.
The Hammer
All-Star
What I'm saying is that Vlade, and me, are banking that Rondo being in a different situation, and being a couple years away from the injury, is going to come with renewed effort and focus, and that this is going to directly translate to better production, including on the defensive end, and that simply looking at his performance the past couple years without considering context is a poor way to judge how he'll do this year.
Can't be any clearer than that.
Also, you are confusing your opinion with reality. You should learn the difference.
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King Baller
All-Star
Just to be clear:
4× NBA All-Star: 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
- NBA regular season leader:
- 2010: most steals (189), most steals per game (2.3)
- 2012: most assists per game (11.7), most triple-doubles (6)
- 2013: most assists per game (11.1), most triple-doubles (5)
- First Team: 2010, 2011
- Second Team: 2009, 2012
IMO it is a realistic assessment to think Rondo will recover SOME of his former All Star self. The Assists will still be there and so will the defensive savvy.
How it all works out remains to be seen. But I choose to be optimistic about Rondo.
GO KINGS
It's ironic that you conclude a post explaining why your assumptions are more important than the facts others are using by telling me to learn the difference.
But whatever, glad there is at least some optimism this year.
The Hammer
All-Star
My god, you really don't know how a debate works do you.
I presented MY opinion. But somehow you take it that I'm presenting it as a fact? Well, credit to my forceful presentation I guess.
There's no irony. Only me presenting my opinion, backing it up with some facts of the situation, and watching you take it all wrong.
Then you can present your OPINION, and back it up with fact also. Two people can actually have different opinions based on different interpretations of a similar set of facts.
Another thing about Rondo (poor Seth Curry got his thread hijacked), someone brought a link to an article about him titled "good at math, bad at people" and there is a quote there:
" The question always was, 'Is he a good enough player to behave the way he does?' "
-- Celtics GM Danny Ainge
And that is my biggest worry- what happens if he doesn't pan out here?
But let's see him play before thinking about those things,
GO KINGS!
" The question always was, 'Is he a good enough player to behave the way he does?' "
-- Celtics GM Danny Ainge
And that is my biggest worry- what happens if he doesn't pan out here?
But let's see him play before thinking about those things,
GO KINGS!
gunks
Hall of Famer
I have a free corner in the lobby of my apartment (ghetto, I know).... The other day, someone had left a 40 inch flat-screen in it.
Now, I was pretty sure it was broken. But I lugged it upstairs anyways because best case, I have a new TV and worst case I have to drag it back downstairs and throw it out.
The TV didn't work. I wasn't surprised. I threw it out. Didn't stress about it.
Anyways, that's how I see the Rondo trade. He is probably broken. Who cares, it's a one year deal. And if he works out? That's about as rad as a new flat-screen.
Now, I was pretty sure it was broken. But I lugged it upstairs anyways because best case, I have a new TV and worst case I have to drag it back downstairs and throw it out.
The TV didn't work. I wasn't surprised. I threw it out. Didn't stress about it.
Anyways, that's how I see the Rondo trade. He is probably broken. Who cares, it's a one year deal. And if he works out? That's about as rad as a new flat-screen.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't think the biggest question is effort, I think its whether he's totally recovered from his knee injury or not. It's not unusual for a player to suffer on the defensive end after a knee injury. Even if healthy, it's always in the back of your mind, so you tend to hold back lest you tear it again. By now, he should be back to full health, and as long as he hasn't lost any of his physical abilities, he should start to look like the Rondo of old, who was a good defensive player.
I've never been a big fan of Rondo's, but one thing I've never questioned with him is his desire, and that includes both ends of the floor.
King Baller
All-Star
Thank you!
All Star level 2 years 8 months ago when he tore his ACL. Players recover from the ACL. Yes I am optimistic Rondo can play at a high level.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Arguing that Rondo CAN'T defend seems very odd as he used to be one of the half dozen or so best PG defenders we've seen this decade. Even if the ACL slowed him, it didn't slow him THAT much.
Now arguing that he hasn't been defending is something else. Mostly true, and likely correctable for the right situation. Bottom line is that recent performance or not there are about 20 other starting PGs around the league who have less chance than Rondo to be good defensively, because they never have been and never will be, never had the talent or knowledge. Rondo has. The question is if the situation will cause him to reengage. But of course that's the whole question with the signing.
Now arguing that he hasn't been defending is something else. Mostly true, and likely correctable for the right situation. Bottom line is that recent performance or not there are about 20 other starting PGs around the league who have less chance than Rondo to be good defensively, because they never have been and never will be, never had the talent or knowledge. Rondo has. The question is if the situation will cause him to reengage. But of course that's the whole question with the signing.
The Hammer
All-Star
Rondo is an extremely strong willed and intelliegent athlete who wants to WIN, can win, has won, and will not stand for bs.
He was getting traded in Boston, hence, there was no will to win.
He was misused in Dallas by a notoriously militant and rigid coach (works for some, not for Rondo).
He is not a "cancer". He may not be a people pleaser or media charmer, fine, I don't care. But you can't question his desire and will to win. Pairing him with a guy like DMC seems to me like and incredible combination. Together they will stand for zero bs on the rest of the team. Rondo doesn't need anybody in his ear. What he needs is for people to let him play. That said, the vet presence is going to help him, but mostly because they are going to have his back and also be mature teammates. Our chemistry is going to be fantastic.
So people can't question the desire and will to win of a guy who basically showed no desire for a while now because things didn't go his way?
You can't claim that he didn't have a will to win in Boston because of trade talks and in Dallas because of his coach on the one hand and talk about his impeccable will on the other, guys that value wins over all else doesn't throw away seasons because things doesn't go their way, Rondo is not the only guy to have trade rumors around him- and not the only one to play for a demanding (if you want you can call him "control freak") coach.
I don't see how you can talk with so much confidence about the will to win of a guy that just quit on his teammates, in a west playoff team on a contract year(!!!)- if you go look at his playoff game with them it's like he was so disengaged it almost seems like he is losing it on purpose (and some have claimed that)- and that happened in a playoff game! it's hard to come up with a situation that contradicts "will to win" more than doing that.
randymoss1881
Starter
Let's just hope Rondo becomes an average to above average starter for us. Some of you will be disappointed I'm looking at you @King Baller
IfAt1st
Starter
Amit149 -
your posts have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't understand Rondo's (or Cousins') mentalities.
You can't comprehend how someone would deliberately play badly in a playoff game.
That's fine.
But my OPINION (and Brick's stated) is that I/we do understand where Rondo and Cousins are coming from mentally.
And many of us are telling you that it is highly likely that Rondo will play more like his previous form than he did the last two seasons with Boston and Dallas.
Who's right?
Well, well soon see.
your posts have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't understand Rondo's (or Cousins') mentalities.
You can't comprehend how someone would deliberately play badly in a playoff game.
That's fine.
But my OPINION (and Brick's stated) is that I/we do understand where Rondo and Cousins are coming from mentally.
And many of us are telling you that it is highly likely that Rondo will play more like his previous form than he did the last two seasons with Boston and Dallas.
Who's right?
Well, well soon see.
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