Race for ROY - revised title

AriesMar27 said:
its weird, i live in los angeles and after griffin went down they stopped talking about him. its like he doesnt even exist anymore, no one talks about him. at all..... there has been no news about griffin since before the season started.

something might be seriously wrong with griffin, i dont think he'll play much if at all this season. if he were recovering and making progress there would be news about it. even if he does play for the clippers, he was the number 1 pick... he would be news worthy... he hasnt been, it might be a shaun livingston level injury...
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I know that I haven't heard much about him either, but he does play for the Clippers. Some of the media would forget that they were in the NBA if they didn't play games against the top teams once in a while. Baron Davis went from being considered one of the top PGs in the league to total obscurity since going to the Clippers (from Golden State of all places).
 
jennings is playing okay today against the bulls... 5/4 with zero turnovers at halftime.
 
Vlade4GM said:
He was 5 for 15 though. I'm sure Bogut being back is going to help him play better.
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Its 5 subpar games in a row (subpar compared to his opening rush). This thread title really no longer applies. Long season ahead. Teams have adjusted, now it will be up to Jennings to adjust back.
 
Bricklayer said:
Its 5 subpar games in a row (subpar compared to his opening rush). This thread title really no longer applies. Long season ahead. Teams have adjusted, now it will be up to Jennings to adjust back.
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Same goes to Evans. He better adjust as well. But I would put my money on Evans though, despite Jennings being a baller.

It will be interesting who hits the wall first though. I give Jennings here the advantage as he was in Europe for a year and is used to 50+ games season. On the other hand Evans is extremely physically fit (except for the potential glass ankles).
 
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if evans continues to play at the point he can still have his way with his size... if he shifts to the 2 guard he needs to worry about his shot selection and when to pass the ball..

imo evans has adjusted better than jennings has... when martin comes back the other team will focus more on martin... easing evans of a little pressure on the offensive end.. making him much more lethal
 
Bricklayer said:
Its 5 subpar games in a row (subpar compared to his opening rush). This thread title really no longer applies. Long season ahead. Teams have adjusted, now it will be up to Jennings to adjust back.
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Yeah, he was getting more space on his shot earlier in the season, now he thinks those shots are still going to go down. This is where the whole "attitude/IQ" question marks are going to be answered. They needed him to be a scoring machine, but that's not going to last forever, he's eventually going to need to learn how to run an offense.
 
Aenadin said:
if evans continues to play at the point he can still have his way with his size... if he shifts to the 2 guard he needs to worry about his shot selection and when to pass the ball..

imo evans has adjusted better than jennings has... when martin comes back the other team will focus more on martin... easing evans of a little pressure on the offensive end.. making him much more lethal
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Well, Jennings has to depend on his jump shot going down because he still doesn't have the strength or the polished finishing ability to be enough of a threat to drive as Evans is.
 
gvucko said:
Same goes to Evans. He better adjust as well. But I would put my money on Evans though, despite Jennings being a baller.

It will be interesting who hits the wall first though. I give Jennings here the advantage as he was in Europe for a year and is used to 50+ games season. On the other hand Evans is extremely physically fit (except for the potential glass ankles).
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The difference being that Jenning's FG% is dropping while Even's has been going up. Even's struggles have been more with him trying to force things than with his overall shooting and scoring. He also seems content to let his teammates take the shots when it isn't there for him. I don't know if Jennings is just shooting a lot (like AI) or his teammate just aren't looking to shoot. He seems like he has more than double the shots of any teammate almost every game.
 
Jennings with about his 7th consecutive bad shooting night. Overall numbers still there for a top rook, but was sitting at 9pts until he hit two late threes. Still ended up 6-20 on the night. Raises some question which guy is the real Jennings -- his cold streak here has lasted as long as the hot streak earlier which got all the attention.

His last 7 games he has shot:
6-21
4-15
3-11
7-22
5-15
7-21
6-20
-------
38-125 30.4% :eek:
 
Bricklayer said:
Jennings with about his 7th consecutive bad shooting night. Overall numbers still there for a top rook, but was sitting at 9pts until he hit two late threes. Still ended up 6-20 on the night. Raises some question which guy is the real Jennings -- his cold streak here has lasted as long as the hot streak earlier which got all the attention.

His last 7 games he has shot:
6-21
4-15
3-11
7-22
5-15
7-21
6-20
-------
38-125 30.4% :eek:
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True, the slump is reaching a point a where you can't just write it off. Part of the reason he was so successful (and the Bucks along with him) in that early part of the season is that he simply wasn't missing shots. Every big shot he took, he made. Very Steve Nash-esque. When those shots aren't falling he looks less like a superstar and more like a very talented rookie with some work to do on his game. But the important thing to me is that he's shooting when he should be shooting and the stroke hasn't changed nor has the confidence with which he takes them. Aside from the poor percentages, he actually had a pretty good night. It's going to take a lot more work to go from streaky shooter to consistent shooter. That's a big step for any player. Even the superstars didn't get there overnight.
 
Tonight

Jennings 17 pts 4 ast 3 reb 4 to's and shot 7-19......
Evans 25 pts 9 ast 3 reb 1 TO and shot 10-17......

Oh and both played 38 mins.
 
The race isn't really a race anymore at this point. Take away the 55 pt game and Jennings as the top rook is laughable.

I'm just glad the double-nickel happened so early, hopefully its imprint will be gone by April.
 
Good thread name, now :)

Tyreke is being by far more solid than Jennings, who is carrying his numbers from his amazing games weeks ago.
 
I just wonder how's it going to be when Martin is back. Now I have no problem with Martin, I'm looking forward to having him back, so I'm not going down that path. I just mean inevitably some touches that were dispersed among the team will be going to Martin, which would mean less touches for Reke, which my lower his point total. It may raise his assist total though, so it's a trade off.

Although if Reke's game is unaffected by Martin's return, AND martin gets back to his average points per night.....then we have something REALLY special.

I just remember that Reke didn't break out until Martin was out. That could be Reke needing a few games to adjust to the NBA, but it seems a bit coincidental that Reke plays like a beast immediately after Martin's injury.

Hopefully it's just how the offense was running, and now it's bee proven it doesn't have to be run that way.
 
DocHolliday said:
I just wonder how's it going to be when Martin is back. Now I have no problem with Martin, I'm looking forward to having him back, so I'm not going down that path. I just mean inevitably some touches that were dispersed among the team will be going to Martin, which would mean less touches for Reke, which my lower his point total. It may raise his assist total though, so it's a trade off.

Although if Reke's game is unaffected by Martin's return, AND martin gets back to his average points per night.....then we have something REALLY special.

I just remember that Reke didn't break out until Martin was out. That could be Reke needing a few games to adjust to the NBA, but it seems a bit coincidental that Reke plays like a beast immediately after Martin's injury.

Hopefully it's just how the offense was running, and now it's bee proven it doesn't have to be run that way.
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I cannot recall the last instance of 2 true 20+pt scorers in an NBA backcourt, let alone two 23+pt scorers in an NBA backcourt. If there is one its probably a smallball scenario. And its not because nobody has ever tried or its such a unique idea. Its because it doesn't work, and frankly even if you could get the guards to somehow work together, too much of your scoring would be coming from outside. Something will have to give. Reke's Roy campaign may well depend on it being the veteran. On Kevin basically backing all the way off to 18-20ppg spot shooter/fast break scorer.

As an aside, Reke's last 10 games:
23.2pts (.506 .238 .825) 5.5reb 5.8ast
 
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Bricklayer said:
I cannot recall the last instance of 2 true 20+pt scorers in an NBA backcourt, let alone two 23+pt scorers in an NBA backcourt. If there is one its probably a smallball scenario. And its not because nobody has ever tried or its such a unique idea. Its because it doesn't work, and frankly even if you could get the guards to somehow work together, too much of your scoring would be coming from outside. Something will have to give. Reke's Roy campaign may well depend on it being the veteran. On Kevin basically backing all the way off to 18-20ppg spot shooter/fast break scorer.

As an aside, Reke's last 10 games:
23.2pts (.506 .238 .825) 5.5reb 5.8ast
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Which those numbers are Allstar #'s, not just ROY #'s.

To your point, you may be making the case that it's one or the other. What I'm reading is that Reke and Martin can not play to their max outputs when they are still on the floor. If that's the case, why would you want both of them on the floor?

If that's the case then you assess the potential and overall skill of both players. Reke at 20 yo is more of a complete player than Martin, because of his defense. Which would lead you to believe that his potential, and his ceiling are higher, not to mention being younger.

So, basically, it comes back to trade Martin. Although I don't believe you do that before giving it a couple months when Martin comes back to see how it works.
 
Ok, I can't currently edit my posts, and I typed the wrong word in spot.

What I'm reading is that Reke and Martin can not play to their max outputs when they are both on the floor
 
Bricklayer said:
On Kevin basically backing all the way off to 18-20ppg spot shooter/fast break scorer.
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I don't see that being a bad thing at all, especially if a few less shots and the attention on Reke allow Kevin to return to his 06-07 shooting efficiency (or better). While the offense has been pretty good overall, there are some pretty significant droughts, and Kevin could carry the scoring through some of those stretches. I doubt we can count on Beno continuing to shoot 54% all year, or Sergio, Omri and Donte all ending up at 50%.
 
I've been pretty clear that I don't think it can work, or that the ony way for it to work is to either a) trash Reke's campaign and impact, which only a low grade moron would do; or b) depress Kevin's game to the point where there are dozens of players who could make a similar impact at far less cost.

In the last...well forever years I literally can only think of 3 or 4 situations where there might have been a 20/20 backcourt pairing, and if there was, one of the guys was borderline and only reached that level for a year or two (or got traded). In that same time span there have been dozens of 20/20 F/F/ cobos, G/big man combos etc. even the legendary Frazier/Monroe duo that Grant/Jerry will go on and on about only accomplished the feat 1 single year (74/75), and they had the advanatge of both being combo guards who kept the whole team involved.
 
Bricklayer said:
I've been pretty clear that I don't think it can work, or that the ony way for it to work is to either a) trash Reke's campaign and impact, which only a low grade moron would do; or b) depress Kevin's game to the point where there are dozens of players who could make a similar impact at far less cost.
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I agree that Tyreke definitely gives us the opportunity to spend less talent/salary capital on the other guard spot, and if the right deal is there to move Kevin and bolster another position we should go for it. I just don't think the prospect of (b) is so bad for the time being, and can help the team maintain as the schedule gets harder and some of the career-shooting highs come back to earth.
 
I know this is about Reke and ROY which would be great, but my biggest concern with Martin's return is it eating up the minutes of Donte and Omri, especially if it neccessitates Cisco as the secondary ballhandler once he is healthy.
 
The only team I can think of of that had anything approaching a 20ppg pg and sg combo was the 1989 Detroit Pistons (Heresy!)

They won a championship with Adrian Dantley (6'5"F-G), Joe Dumars, and Isiah Thomas all averaging about 18ppg. Of course, we can't compare to them. Ever. At all. Ridiculous. Must stop trying. Now.

Ending post. Over and out.
 
ryanandty said:
The only team I can think of of that had anything approaching a 20ppg pg and sg combo was the 1989 Detroit Pistons (Heresy!)

They won a championship with Adrian Dantley (6'5"F-G), Joe Dumars, and Isiah Thomas all averaging about 18ppg. Of course, we can't compare to them. Ever. At all. Ridiculous. Must stop trying. Now.

Ending post. Over and out.
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And yet they weren't even close to what we are proposing really. Two 18ppg scorers and Dantley was a SF. Pretty similar to the modern Detroit incarnation really.

My own candidates were KJ/Hornacek, but the only year Hornacek barely snuck over 20 (20.1) KJ ended at 19.7 (and Hornacek was traded durng the offseason for Barkely). The Monroe/Frazier duo, whihc as mentioend did it all of once in 74/75. Run TMC, which also did it once, the year before Mitch was traded to us. And then having to go all the way back to the early 70s Lakers with West/Goodrich, who did it three times, asuming you did not call West a SF. And frankly those early examples come from different eras in basketball when scoring was considerably higher than it is today. The other thing is you look at those pairings, and Mitch, who was a good passer, was the worst passer of any of the SGs involved. They were all combo guards. All guys who ran point from time to time and so could keep the rest of the team at least somewhat involved. Trying to have such a duo centered around just scoring would kill your ball movement and trash the rest of your team. Right now when Reke doesn't have the ball Beno or Sergio often do, off on the other side of the court running a play with their teammates. Everybody stays involved.
 
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