PRESEASON Grades v. Suns 10/25

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Tough one to grade. Fact is that the INDIVIDUAL grades aren't horrible. But that conceals the problem -- we don't look like a team out there right now. Just hard to assess and divy that up fairly in the individual asessments. Its nobody's fault, and everybody's:

Peja ( B ) -- not sure what got into Peja's water, but was playing a well rounded game early. Set some people up. Was doing a nice job of closing on the Suns shooters in the first quarter, but to only mixed results. Help defense sucked however. NEWS ALERT! Also was hanging in there on the glass -- none of those infamous "muscular rebounds" he is so noted for in certain quarters, but at least he wasn't bolting up court to cherry pick and as a result ended up grabbing a fair number on the defensive glass to give us a little boost. Scored in a variety of ways in the first half. In the second half did little beyond hit a couple of threes. Threw away a couple of inexplicably bad passes. Was left in there with Mike to play with the second unit against the Suns scrubs, so ended up with something close to a full game's worth of minutes. I simply refuse to give anybody but Bonzi more than a B in this one, but Peja's game tonight was respectable.
Thomas ( B ) -- back in his old college gym, got off to a fast and active start as one might expect. Well at least fast on offense, where he may have been the leading scorer in the first. Defense was another story as he was abused by both Marion and Thomas (Kurt) inside. Sign of his eagerness -- at the end of the quarter inadvertently stole a pass intended for Peja and tried to slam it home. In the second half got quiet, but gave a tougher effort on the glass and defense, and eventually picked up a T as well. This might be a B+, but not tonight. At some point letting the other squad pour in 110+ points on your head has to come back to bite you in the grades. Defense is half the game too.
Miller ( C+ ) -- quiet start, but outside shot was on at least. Stats say he grabbed 6 rebs in 22 min. Did he really? I certainly didn't notice it. For the most part played his B game -- did the things he can do well (shoot, a couple of passes), but did nothing exceptional, and certainly didn't stop a penetrating Suns player all night long inside.
Wells ( A- ) -- Started slowly but began to really come on as the first quarter drew to a close. And really ended up dominating inside action for us on the night. Easily the best King, and at times it looked like Bonzi vs. the Suns. Drew fouls repeatedly on drives. Was our best rebounder by a lot. Ended up with 21pts 10rebs, as an OG, in 25min! If there was a positive tonight, it was Mr. Wells. Only real negative was that he, like Kevin, continues to struggle to consistently knock down open jumpers. His game is down inside.
Bibby ( F ) -- okay, this has really gone on long enough Mike. Did a few little things ok in the second half, but I still have to drop the big ole F for not only this game, but most of his preseason so far. Shot still off, at times badly. And from all over the floor. Did dive back down to help on the glass a few times early. Unable to contain Nash's penetration, and there was absolutely no help rotation from any of our "big" men. Result was Nash destroying our sad defense and time and again setting up Suns for wide open shots. Had to return to the game in place of a struggling Price in the second, but then got worked over by Eddie House as well. (Might need to explain to me again why we decided to add Price and subtract House?) Started waking up a little during the third and created a few shots for teammates. But his own shot remained absent. For the second time this preseason did not hit his first shot until the end of the third.
Abdur-Rahim ( B- ) -- came in at the end of the first quarter...at center again. Yikes. But the right team to do it against. Quicker or bigger than the lesser opponents he was matched against. Pat Burke? Boris Diaw? Those guys should have no chance agaisnt a Shareef Abdur-Rahim, and he showed flashes against them. Best thing he did was finally grab some boards this time out. With him coming in with our second unit, Suns went to a VERY aggressive double teaming defense to force the ball out of his hands. Looked pretty good, but still not an assertive outing for him. And damnit, at some point here somebody other than Bonzi has to step forward and impose his will on a game here. Giving him a B- for the boardwork, but did not have much impact, and we lost ground with him in there. He's better than this. Or at least used to be. Time to step out of the shadows here at some point and have a breakthrough game.
Williamson ( C- ) -- first action since the banner Portland game, did not go nearly so well. Got rebounded over by Boris Diaw immediately after entering and struggled to find rhythm on offense. No match on defense against Marion in the second half, who just went right over him. Scored better in garbagetime, and did have one amusing play where he grabbed a board and Leandro Barbosa for some reason tried to horsecollar him as he flew on by. Corliss just shook him off like an angry bull and Leandro ended up face down on the sidelines. Nonetheless, apart from some garbagetime points, did not accomplish much on the glass, on defense, or in any other area.
Price ( C+ ) -- tale of two halves really. First half he was a disorganized mess. Got into a defensive stance at least, but forced his offense again and missed shots. Worse, was still unable to run the offense coherently and was quickly removed for Bibby after the Phoenix lead swelled on his watch. Looked much better after he returned late, hit a pair of threes and some drives, but also started doing a little bit too much garbagetime one on one. Guess with nobody else doing anything, why not though. A nice scoring run to partially redeem himself, but he still wasn't directing the offense so much as finding his own points. The good thing he does is try on defense. He's not nearly as distruptive as Hart, but you see him jumping in front of guys and occasionally poking balls away. Its the other end of the court where he's been all over the court, literally. Natural scorer, not playmaker.
Skinner ( C+ ) -- another nice pass immediately after entering, and defended the rim well in the first half. Never got anything going on offense though, and his impact was negligible at best this time out. Giving him a little grade here just for being the one Kings big man who actually protects the hoop.
Cisco ( B- ) -- mixed bag tonight. Entered game as the OG in the 2nd and he and the rest of the bench was not effective at all early, forcing the starters to return. After returning in the third, looked more settled. Hit a couple of in in rhythm threes as a reult of the offense rather than freelancing (one a classic inside outside game with a posting Shareef). Helped some on the glass by grabbing a couple of loose boards along the baseline. Not tough ones, but if he didn't come back to grab them nobody would have. Used his length to get a couple of blocks in the 4th although also got worked a few times on defense as well. Overall, a modest game, but recovered after the ineffective start to put together a decent effort. And just as importantly, one in which he worked IN the offense, rather than outside of it. If he does that he's a good enough shooter to be able to hit those open shots
Sampson ( Inc ) -- Garbagetime. Didn't even notice him really.


Adelman ( --) -- ugly game for us. Really not as close as the score indicates. Team defense, transition defense, sucked all night no matter who was on the floor. Nash ran around at will breaking down the defense, and Marion flew up and down the court beating everybody. In the second quarter we went with a solid group of benchers, headed by Shareef (KT started), and they flopped. And Price looked unable to run the offense. Remains an open question -- if he's the #3, right now would we really have confidence in him if Hart went down in the regular season, or heaven forbid, Bibby? Glad he got time, but better results would have been very welcome. Teamwide frustration led to a bit of a mental meltdown in the third, with us picking up cheap fouls, technicals, and generally not showing much composure. We left Mike, Peja, and Reef -- theoretically three borderline All-Stars -- in to start the fourth as the Suns went with their deep bench, and somewhat disturbingly we still didn't make up much ground. Liked some of the stuff we were running with Bonzi and Reef in the post kicking to perimeter guys. Of course it did not work well enough tonight. But good idea. 7 games into the preseason and I still have no idea what our rotation is going to look like. Not sure Rick does either -- he keeps experimenting, and nobody will even give him two games in a row. Bu its clear that some decisions have to be made, and soon now so that we can find some sort of rhythm. Less than a week to go until opening night.

Eddie House ( A ) -- explain to me again why we have an undrafted FA named Price as our #3 PG right now rather than Eddie? Guy was just unconscious tonight.
 
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#2
Bricklayer said:
Eddie House ( A ) -- explain to me again why we have an undrafted FA named Price as our #3 PG right now rather than Eddie? He was just unconscious tonight.
Well, from what I've read, Petrie wanted to draft him and really likes him, impressed in the VSL. Can play on both ends of the floor, just needs to improve playmaking.

I expected Eddie to be similar (just some better) for how he was for us, but get a bunch of open shots because of Nash. He's been doing it all pre-season.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#3
We HAD Eddie House in the house. We let him go and got somebody not nearly as accomplished.

I agree with Bricklayer. It's one of those things that make you scratch your head and wonder why...
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#4
One thing I don't understand is why did we collapse every damn time nash went into the lane?! I mean its not rocket science out there. They ran the SAME play every time down the court. Yet, no adjustments? The Suns pretty much strictly do this without Amare:

Place one guy at one corner, place one guy at the other corner, Nash drives the lane and passes it to the corners. Not really much more than that.

Peja looked like he was mesmerized everytime Nash waltzed into the lane. Bonzi did too. Even GRANT pointed out that the WHOLE TEAM DOESN'T NEED TO COLLAPSE when Nash drives the lane. We left every possible shooter open.

Oh well.

I know it all BTW.
 
#5
I think that I would have given Miller a "D" for tonight's performance. He gets paid an awful lot of money to play center, not a clumsy and slow shooting guard. He seems to be lazy and unathletic. I was actually waiting for one of his famous pouts. He isn't passing like Vlade and running the team from the high-post. He also isn't banging around, rebounding, and stuffing the ball like a real center.

I think that I would start Skinner and let Miller think about it for a while. Adelman will not do that, and he knows best.

Unfortunately, Adelman no longer has Eddie House to come in when Bibby is stinking up the joint. We are in big trouble unless Jason Hart can sustain extended minutes as an effective point-guard. Waiting for Bibby to defend somebody is like wishing for a "Hail Mary" pass to win a hopeless football game. We all find ourselves hoping against hope for a miracle.
 
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#6
Wasn't there an article in the Bee after the trade for Jason Hart that had Eddie saying he doesn't want to be 3rd PG which would leave him with very limited playing time and he will look eslewhere for the opportunities??????

I am pretty sure there was an article about this in the bee.
 
#7
Wow, do my eyes deceive me or has Bricklayer fallen in love with a jump shooter?

House brings one dimension to the game, shooting, which the Kings don't really need. Granted, he does it very well, but he's not a particularly good ball handler, passer, penetrator, offensive initator, defender, rebounder, or anything else that doesn't involve hoisting long range shots. Hart brings defensive presence, offensive stability a little jump shooting and some intangibles. Price looks to me like, given time, he'll be a more than capable defender and won't kill the team on offense.

House will occasionally do the 18 points in 16 minutes thing, and instant offense is great and all, but the bench is supposed to compensate where the Kings are weak. House is the perfect player for the Suns: 100% offense all the time. At least the Kings recognize that their worst defender is their PG and they need to back him up with some capable defensive players to make opposing PGs work a little.
 
#8
quick dog said:
Unfortunately, Adelman no longer has Eddie House to come in when Bibby is stinking up the joint. We are in big trouble unless Jason Hart can sustain extended minutes as an effective point-guard. Waiting for Bibby to defend somebody is like wishing for a "Hail Mary" pass to win a hopeless football game. We all find ourselves hoping against hope for a miracle.
Hart did it for Charlotte last year.

Čarolija said:
Wasn't there an article in the Bee after the trade for Jason Hart that had Eddie saying he doesn't want to be 3rd PG which would leave him with very limited playing time and he will look eslewhere for the opportunities??????

I am pretty sure there was an article about this in the bee.
Yep.

nbrans said:
Wow, do my eyes deceive me or has Bricklayer fallen in love with a jump shooter?

House brings one dimension to the game, shooting, which the Kings don't really need. Granted, he does it very well, but he's not a particularly good ball handler, passer, penetrator, offensive initator, defender, rebounder, or anything else that doesn't involve hoisting long range shots. Hart brings defensive presence, offensive stability a little jump shooting and some intangibles. Price looks to me like, given time, he'll be a more than capable defender and won't kill the team on offense.

House will occasionally do the 18 points in 16 minutes thing, and instant offense is great and all, but the bench is supposed to compensate where the Kings are weak. House is the perfect player for the Suns: 100% offense all the time. At least the Kings recognize that their worst defender is their PG and they need to back him up with some capable defensive players to make opposing PGs work a little.
Agreed.
 
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#9
What's the golf expression...."if you didn't bring a good swing with you - don't expect to find it out on the course?" The November/December schedule leads me to believe that .500 record would be swell and probable.

We are a C team. Could we seriously be rated higher in any of these: shooting? defense? rebounding? chemistry? athleticism? I don't think a B+ in passing is enough.

I DO think 50 wins is possible though, because I fully expect a trade, still. I don't know who what or where, but I can see Bibby and Peja seem very stale.
 
#10
SacTownKid said:
One thing I don't understand is why did we collapse every damn time nash went into the lane?! I mean its not rocket science out there. They ran the SAME play every time down the court. Yet, no adjustments? The Suns pretty much strictly do this without Amare:

Place one guy at one corner, place one guy at the other corner, Nash drives the lane and passes it to the corners. Not really much more than that.

Peja looked like he was mesmerized everytime Nash waltzed into the lane. Bonzi did too. Even GRANT pointed out that the WHOLE TEAM DOESN'T NEED TO COLLAPSE when Nash drives the lane. We left every possible shooter open.

Oh well.

I know it all BTW.
I totally agree with this statement. ESPN(or SI I can't remember) for god's sake had a whole article about the Suns offense and it was basically predicated by Nash driving down the middle and having his players spot up for three's.
 
#12
VF21 said:
We HAD Eddie House in the house. We let him go and got somebody not nearly as accomplished.

I agree with Bricklayer. It's one of those things that make you scratch your head and wonder why...
funniest (perhaps most ironic) thing about it is the fact that eddie house and jim jackson--who were both valuable reserves in their stints w/ sacto--are now playing for the suns, who are the kings principle division rival this season.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
Eddie House and Jim Jackson were valuable reserves and they're doing quite well on their new teams.

Doug Christie and Chris Webber were valuable STARTERS for us. Quite frankly, I'm not very thrilled about seeing how this crew does against either of them. (And that's just a generic commentary - NOT an attempt to bring up the old discussion about either of them.)
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#14
Decent grades, and I agree with the questions on why they let House go, is Pheonix paying him that much more tahn the Kings could afford? In some ways this was such an off game and aside from Bibby's shooting woes out of pattern I'd hate to read too much in to it but the fact that the Sun's beat the Kings two in a row should be of great concern. If this new look team is going to be an elite team they have to find ways to beat elite teams. In Fresno the Bench put on a good show and the starters looked bad. In NM the Bench fell short but the starters with the exception of Bibby put on a good show. It's preseason so I have a hard time reading too much into the losses but they are problematic. One more meaningless game to go...
 
#15
VF21 said:
We HAD Eddie House in the house. We let him go and got somebody not nearly as accomplished.

I agree with Bricklayer. It's one of those things that make you scratch your head and wonder why...
I absolutely agree with this. This and the departure of songalia for absolutely squat. Two things that miffs me.
 
#16
PFFFT!! said:
I absolutely agree with this. This and the departure of songalia for absolutely squat. Two things that miffs me.
Songaila was let go because he'd be the third PF in the rotation (SAR/KT/Songaila), thus would get not much PT at all, and less than he was seeing in Sac overall before. Petrie let him go to benefit his career. Plus to an east team :).

Eddie wasn't brought back because he'd be the third PG. More about it in a Sacbee article from early August.

HndsmCelt said:
Decent grades, and I agree with the questions on why they let House go, is Pheonix paying him that much more tahn the Kings could afford? In some ways this was such an off game and aside from Bibby's shooting woes out of pattern I'd hate to read too much in to it but the fact that the Sun's beat the Kings two in a row should be of great concern. If this new look team is going to be an elite team they have to find ways to beat elite teams. In Fresno the Bench put on a good show and the starters looked bad. In NM the Bench fell short but the starters with the exception of Bibby put on a good show. It's preseason so I have a hard time reading too much into the losses but they are problematic. One more meaningless game to go...
Two losses aren't good, and problematic or not, they were in pre-season. Rick using different rotations and experiments, limited minutes, players still getting something(s) down. Won't be going like that post-pre-season. :)
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#17
Kings113 - Congratulations on winning the "I stated the obvious" award.

;)

Songaila was let go for business reasons, namely monetary. Sorry but St. Petrie isn't quite that benevolent. The same is true for House, regardless of what the SacBee may or may not have said.

The sad thing is that we let both go without much of a protest whatsoever. House has already shown that he can play and play well within our system. Dumping him was a questionable decision, especially when you consider what we have now behind Bibby.

Songaila is more problematic. True, he wasn't going to see a lot of minutes barring unforeseen circumstances, but he is still improving as a player. I truly hope the decision to let him walk doesn't bite us in the arse as so many recent player departures seem to be on the brink of doing.
 
#18
VF21 said:
Kings113 - Congratulations on winning the "I stated the obvious" award.

;)

Songaila was let go for business reasons, namely monetary. Sorry but St. Petrie isn't quite that benevolent. The same is true for House, regardless of what the SacBee may or may not have said.

The sad thing is that we let both go without much of a protest whatsoever. House has already shown that he can play and play well within our system. Dumping him was a questionable decision, especially when you consider what we have now behind Bibby.

Songaila is more problematic. True, he wasn't going to see a lot of minutes barring unforeseen circumstances, but he is still improving as a player. I truly hope the decision to let him walk doesn't bite us in the arse as so many recent player departures seem to be on the brink of doing.
Well, the person didn't understand why we let go of Songaila, so I answered. Simple as that :).

The House Sacbee article had House quotes in it as well.

I'd much rather have Hart behind Bibby than House (Hart isn't seriously injured). House would be a very nice combo guard off the bench, but Garcia and Martin are already there in the other bench guard spots (I know Garcia is being used more at SF, but saying as back in the summer). Price I really liked since I first read about him back in August, then I was kinda unsure about him since pre-season started up till the Portland game, and now I really like him and am impressed.
 
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#20
Ah, yeah I see now, I just misread it.

Well, PFFFT!, did you want him to come back? If so, Songaila would be getting little time here. When he would be getting much more time to play, and possibly start somewhere else.
 
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#22
PFFFT!! said:
I absolutely agree with this. This and the departure of songalia for absolutely squat. Two things that miffs me.
Well, I think it's unfair to compare Price to House. It would be more accurate to compare House to Hart. Shockingly, I think Hart is a better pick as a tough defensive mided PG. I like what Hart brings and I'm anxious to see him play during the regular season.
 
#24
Bricklayer said:
Eddie House ( A ) -- explain to me again why we have an undrafted FA named Price as our #3 PG right now rather than Eddie? Guy was just unconscious tonight.
I'm sad the kings lost of course, but I'm glad that House spanked them. I hope he gave Bibby a hard time too.
 
R

R1LOVER

Guest
#25
VF21 said:
We HAD Eddie House in the house. We let him go and got somebody not nearly as accomplished.

I agree with Bricklayer. It's one of those things that make you scratch your head and wonder why...
I agree and I don't even want to mention Jim Jackson.............. Damn - they both schooled us and there are old players that we traded....

At least it's nice for them to take it to us... lol
 
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