PRESEASON Grades v. Clippers 10/14
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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bye_bye_bjax24
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Bonzi's 9 rebounds fell into his lap....I give him credit for going to the glass and I like that he does not force the issue out of the low post....takes his time and reads the defense...but....A- is a ridiculous grade. He has yet to show he can shoot from the perimeter and cannot finish driving to the hole...got burned on defense too....its too early to be too critical though...but I usually don't let stop me. 
Also....Garcia is going to be a stud. THe fact he got called for ticky-tack fouls is not a negative....he is out there being aggressive....I LOVE it. He cuts well to the hoop, always active, great basketball instincts. He is going to develop quickly and add a lot to our team.
Shareef will be our best post up player since Wayman Tisdale. My favorite play was when he got a rebound and took it coast to coast....and passed to Bibby (missed shot). He handles the ball better than Peja....I can remember C-Webb doing the same thing thinking NO!!! pass the ball. With Shareef he was in perfect control showing off those 3-man skillz.
Jason Hart is good...good control, fast feet on D... and decision making solid. ...but I can't help but think those are the minutes that normally go to B-Jaxxx. Hart will have to dazzle and perform steadily for a while before I am sold.
K-Mart has never impressed me with his basketball skillz. I am not a fan at all. Anyone who is does not know basketball. He can be a spot player 5-10 minutes to disrupt on defense and opportunity baskets in transition....but as far as being a major player in a rotation....no way. Can't shoot, can't pass, weak on the dribble, no left hand, lacks competive fire.
Also....Garcia is going to be a stud. THe fact he got called for ticky-tack fouls is not a negative....he is out there being aggressive....I LOVE it. He cuts well to the hoop, always active, great basketball instincts. He is going to develop quickly and add a lot to our team.
Shareef will be our best post up player since Wayman Tisdale. My favorite play was when he got a rebound and took it coast to coast....and passed to Bibby (missed shot). He handles the ball better than Peja....I can remember C-Webb doing the same thing thinking NO!!! pass the ball. With Shareef he was in perfect control showing off those 3-man skillz.
Jason Hart is good...good control, fast feet on D... and decision making solid. ...but I can't help but think those are the minutes that normally go to B-Jaxxx. Hart will have to dazzle and perform steadily for a while before I am sold.
K-Mart has never impressed me with his basketball skillz. I am not a fan at all. Anyone who is does not know basketball. He can be a spot player 5-10 minutes to disrupt on defense and opportunity baskets in transition....but as far as being a major player in a rotation....no way. Can't shoot, can't pass, weak on the dribble, no left hand, lacks competive fire.
bye_bye_bjax24 said:Bonzi's 9 rebounds fell into his lap....I give him credit for going to the glass and I like that he does not force the issue out of the low post....takes his time and reads the defense...but....A- is a ridiculous grade. He has yet to show he can shoot from the perimeter and cannot finish driving to the hole...got burned on defense too....its too early to be too critical though...but I usually don't let stop me.
Also....Garcia is going to be a stud. THe fact he got called for ticky-tack fouls is not a negative....he is out there being aggressive....I LOVE it. He cuts well to the hoop, always active, great basketball instincts. He is going to develop quickly and add a lot to our team.
Shareef will be our best post up player since Wayman Tisdale. My favorite play was when he got a rebound and took it coast to coast....and passed to Bibby (missed shot). He handles the ball better than Peja....I can remember C-Webb doing the same thing thinking NO!!! pass the ball. With Shareef he was in perfect control showing off those 3-man skillz.
Jason Hart is good...good control, fast feet on D... and decision making solid. ...but I can't help but think those are the minutes that normally go to B-Jaxxx. Hart will have to dazzle and perform steadily for a while before I am sold.
K-Mart has never impressed me with his basketball skillz. I am not a fan at all. Anyone who is does not know basketball. He can be a spot player 5-10 minutes to disrupt on defense and opportunity baskets in transition....but as far as being a major player in a rotation....no way. Can't shoot, can't pass, weak on the dribble, no left hand, lacks competive fire.
BTW, Bonzi's never been known as a long-range shooter, and he isn't a very good or quality one. I personally don't care that he isn't. Driving to the hole won't be a problem for Bonzi.
Because it's pre-season, Bonzi is still getting Memphis-like minutes. Also, because it's pre-season (the factors and what comes with it, hence what we've seen so far) and only the second game. He'll be fine. Things can only go up and develop further from last night.
K-Mart has showed in spurts over his career so far he is a good athelete, can score well, steal balls, a pretty good rebounder. Read/heard he plays pretty solid defense (reason why I say that is I only had the cable games last year, so only saw a bit of it or don't remember, and I don't live in Cali to see these games so far). Yeah KM's been being raved about in the VSL and in camp, but it's only the second pre-season game.
I've been sold on Hart since we've signed him. Based on some past viewings and a lot that I've read about him. So, yeah.
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bye_bye_bjax24
Guest
6th said:
Are you saying K-Mart is going to average anywhere near 8-10 points and play 20-25 minutes a game? Because if he was for real, and as good as the coaching staff touts him, then this was would be a reasonable production.
If you think thats going to happen, u are in for a let down. He will be relegated to the end of the bench and get garbage minutes while Garcia and Big Nasty eat up his minutes. He will average about 4 points a game and shoot about 35% from the field.
He is the second coming of Gerald Wallace. All potential, no production. He threw an half-court pass out of bounds on a fast break play last night that was just total silliness.
I did not criticize any posters on this board directly....so lighten up. You have the right to be a fan of him if u want. Personally, I am fan of Kings players for they way they play, their ability to maximize their talent, and play within the team concept, not just b/c they put on the uniform (see Greg Ostertag).
If K-Mart proves be a stud, I will be the first to admit I was wrong. But thats not going to happen.
bye_bye_bjax24 said:Bonzi's 9 rebounds fell into his lap....I give him credit for going to the glass and I like that he does not force the issue out of the low post....takes his time and reads the defense...but....A- is a ridiculous grade. He has yet to show he can shoot from the perimeter and cannot finish driving to the hole...got burned on defense too....its too early to be too critical though...but I usually don't let stop me.
Also....Garcia is going to be a stud. THe fact he got called for ticky-tack fouls is not a negative....he is out there being aggressive....I LOVE it. He cuts well to the hoop, always active, great basketball instincts. He is going to develop quickly and add a lot to our team.
Shareef will be our best post up player since Wayman Tisdale. My favorite play was when he got a rebound and took it coast to coast....and passed to Bibby (missed shot). He handles the ball better than Peja....I can remember C-Webb doing the same thing thinking NO!!! pass the ball. With Shareef he was in perfect control showing off those 3-man skillz.
Jason Hart is good...good control, fast feet on D... and decision making solid. ...but I can't help but think those are the minutes that normally go to B-Jaxxx. Hart will have to dazzle and perform steadily for a while before I am sold.
K-Mart has never impressed me with his basketball skillz. I am not a fan at all. Anyone who is does not know basketball. He can be a spot player 5-10 minutes to disrupt on defense and opportunity baskets in transition....but as far as being a major player in a rotation....no way. Can't shoot, can't pass, weak on the dribble, no left hand, lacks competive fire.
If you're not a fan of Kevin's, that's your choice. But it's not the way MOST people who have been around basketball for quite a while see him.
The general feeling is that Kevin DOES have a lot to offer. They're really impressed with how hard he worked over the summer to hone his skills, and they foresee good things from him this season. Kevin is being talked about a lot because he's showing a lot.
What is it with the need of some people to dump on OUR OWN TEAM MEMBERS??????? Sorry, but this is KINGSFANS.COM - I simply do not understand the rationale behind dumping on our own players. It's just not right.
bye_bye_bjax24 said:
You should really think about checking your attitude at the door.
You're a fan of Kings players for the way they play, etc???? Well then, explain EXACTLY what it is YOU'VE seen so far that has you drooling about Francisco Garcia????
This is a friendly board. We're KINGS fans. Take it down a notch.
tyrant
Starter
VF21 said:You should really think about checking your attitude at the door.
You're a fan of Kings players for the way they play, etc???? Well then, explain EXACTLY what it is YOU'VE seen so far that has you drooling about Francisco Garcia????
This is a friendly board. We're KINGS fans. Take it down a notch.
i think that bye_bye_bjax is saying that just because you put on a kings uniform you are not automatically due respect. kevin has to earn his stripes like everyone else in this league or on this team. people are going to doubt martin's skills and that's just the way it is. everyone already knows that i'm not a big fan of k-mart either, but that doesnt mean i don't accept him. bye_bye_bjax said that he is a fan of players that play kings ball; i am too. putting on a kings uniform doesn't make you a king. it's overall game and learning your role. i'm sure that k-mart is a talented player, but he hasn't show jack squat. the coaches and media hype him up because they say he works hard and he was the leading scorer of summerleage etc, so what. what has he done on the court? with the big shots like bibby, peja? i haven't seen any games, but based on conversation and stats garcia is better than k-mart hands down. 11ppg and a .476 shooting percentage is outstanding. i haven't seen any type of indication that has lead me to believe that k-mart will produce more than 4 pointer per game. he does remind me of a gerald wallace. and wallace still stinks.
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OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
bye_bye_bjax24 said:
"Anyone who is does not know basketball"? What a meaningless statement,your basing this on a rookie season and two pre-season games? Obviously you have no basketball IQ, because the development of Martin isn't going to come instantaneously, it's going to take time, he's still translating to the NBA game, and you've already put him out, I can't wait till he drops 20 and you will be the first one to admit your wrong.
Oh, please. This is beyond ridiculous.
NOT one person has said anything about Kevin being a superstar - well except you.
It isn't about Garcia vs. Martin - or at least it shouldn't be. We need BOTH of these young men if we really want to maintain a deep, multi-faceted bench. The idea that it has to be either one or the other is just silly.
NOT one person has said anything about Kevin being a superstar - well except you.
It isn't about Garcia vs. Martin - or at least it shouldn't be. We need BOTH of these young men if we really want to maintain a deep, multi-faceted bench. The idea that it has to be either one or the other is just silly.
Padrino
All-Star
tyrant said:
this applies to garcia as well. all i've seen from garcia so far is 3 pt shooting out of the context of the offense. he's had a couple nice ones in rhythm, but i dont see how anyone can bash martin's game and tote garcia's when both are out there trying to probe they belong. martin has had very minimal nba regular season experience, and garcia has exactly one training camp and two preseason games worth of nba experience. the whole martin > gracia and garcia > martin business is ludicrous, cuz neither is proven in the nba. i, personally, am excited about both. but its just plain unfair to say "what has martin done on the court?" and then turn around and say garcia's the better player when garcia has been playing at the nba level for less then a week.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
No one said anything about Garcia, all players are different & develop at different times, I know Garcia is good, and I know Martin is good, just because Garcia is shooting more then Martin dosen't meen jack, there both young talents for our team and will both be positive contributors. You use the word "Superstar" pretty freely, No Martin will probably not be a superstar in the NBA but how many superstars are there. I can think of Shaq, Duncan & Garnett.tyrant said:
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Netguy115
Guest
wow these arguments are pretty ridiculous...lets at least see some regular season games with k-mart and garcia playing and then maybe judge them a little. stats in the preseason mean nothing. Plus, this k-mart vs. garcia better is even stupider now, when its apparent that Rick Adelman has decided to play Garcia more at the back up SF and K-mart more at the backup SG.
tyrant
Starter
OptimusRhyme said:
do you smell that? you sound like one of the maloofs.
well, i think these are two great guys and and and and their both young and very athletic and they love this team and they worked hard during the summer. SAVE IT
i wanna see some competiveness. who can cut it and who can't. no soft spots for players that can't produce.
maybe i should've said all star. since superstars are the best players in the league.
tyrant
Starter
VF21 said:Those five words pretty much say all I need to hear.
c'mon. just because i haven't seen any games doesn't mean anything. I've seen k-mart play last season and in this previous summer league; so i know what he's about and i know he might of only gotten a tad better. by the way everyone talks about garcia and looking at his stats it shows me he's better than k-mart.
Padrino
All-Star
tyrant said:
"might have," not "might of."
oh...and you mean garcia's nba stats, right? as in, the stats from the two preseason games he's played in?
gimme a break. college stats dont mean ****. both guys have a whole lotta potential. right now thats all it is, for both of them. neither is gonna be an impact player in this league, but both have the ability to contribute. as of right now, i'm unimpressed by francisco garcia because all he has done is shoot the 3. his scoring is better than martin's but he's got big fat zero's everywhere else in his stat line, and that needs to change. the kings dont necessarily need more shooters. we need guys who are gonna pass, rebound, and play a little d. bibby, peja, wells, miller, and SAR have got shooting covered. now, if ya wanna talk about stats, tell me about the ones that are actually relevant.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
tyrant said:
Am I talking to a little kid? You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. First of all you haven't seen any of the games, as you mentioned. Second, "No soft spots for players that can't produce"? Once again your basing all of this on two pre-season games, with a team that is trying to find an identity with each other, yah I'd rather try and sound like the Maloofs & Coach Adelman, the people that actually know the players, then some kid on the internet, that just assumes one player will be bad and one player will be good.
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tyrant said:
First, from VF21 the moderator - knock off the insults. Save them for a board that doesn't have members that make a point to treat each other with respect, even if they don't agree with them...
Now, as VF21 the fan - You want to see some competitiveness? How do you know if it's there or not, since you admit to not seeing any games?
Soft spots for players who can't produce? Dude, that is just - excuse me for pointing out the obvious - lame. Garcia is too new to make any real judgments about. Kevin, on the other hand, has been here long enough for people to recognize what he's going to be able to do. Everyone from the Maloofs, Geoff Petrie, Jerry Reynolds, pretty much the entire Bee sports staff, visiting writers from other papers, etc. AND some pretty knowledgeable fans here on KF are all in agreement that it looks like Petrie made the right choice last year in selecting Kevin Martin. The fact that you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't true. Or are all of those other people delusional???
Before you act like you know everything about Kevin - or Cisco for that matter - you might want to wait until you actually have more than a bunch of stats on a screen to base your impressions on.
Mad D said:
I think we're in agreement, Mad D, although I found your comments just a tad confusing...
Kevin is more poised AND he's really improved as far as understanding the role he has to play, etc.
Garcia, on the other hand, is where Kevin was last year. He isn't going to see a whole lot of minutes barring some unforseen catastrophe because - as we all know only too well - Adelman doesn't play his rookies a lot. Garcia is going to have to earn his stripes just like every other rookie not named LeBron James has done.
But - bottom line - they BOTH have the potential to really help our team in whatever capacity Adelman and the coaching staff see fit. I simply cannot understand why someone who claims to be a Kings fan would want it any other way...
T
thesanityannex
Guest
The two of them have completely different styles when playing the game. I don't even see how they can be compared.
If you add the apparent way they're going to be used - Kevin as a 2 and Garcia as a 3 - then it makes even less sense.
I actually liked the dynamic they seem to have already developed when they're both on the court at once. Along with Hart, Garcia and Martin are as exciting a group of younger players that I can ever recall wearing Kings colors.
I actually liked the dynamic they seem to have already developed when they're both on the court at once. Along with Hart, Garcia and Martin are as exciting a group of younger players that I can ever recall wearing Kings colors.
allrightythen
Starter
If you throw KT and Skinner/Sampson in with that above mentioned group, thats a exciting active group of guys.
Garcia and Martin do seem a little too different to compare. Personally I think they will both be at least solid NBA contributers, Petrie doesn't draft anything else.
Garcia and Martin do seem a little too different to compare. Personally I think they will both be at least solid NBA contributers, Petrie doesn't draft anything else.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Wow! I like the potential in both these young men. They aren't competing against each other at this point. Its obvious that Kevin worked out this summer and he looks more at home out there. He's atheletic, he hustles.
Garcia still looks lost out there, Martin doesn't so much. I expected that. However, Garcia may not need as much time to fit in as Kevin, whom RA said was a little wide-eyed last year.
- Martin admitted it wasn't easy to come in as a rookie and play with guys who had played together for years. Garcia isn't being thrust into quite the same situation.
- Garcia is older than Martin, by about a year. At that age, a year can make a lot of difference in physical maturity and just general maturity.
- Garcia has the advantage of having played under Coach Pitino, who ran a Princeton offense. He should feel comfortable in RA's system more quickly.
I'm excited about both these guys. But I've seen a lot more of Martin than Garcia as an NBA player and Martin has improved from last year. Garcia's going to have to play a lot more, before I'd even consider comparing the two. Even then, what does it matter? They aren't necessarily competing for the same position on the team anyway. Maybe they will bring different, welcome strengths to this team and not have the same weaknesses. I'm hoping they both work out great.
Garcia still looks lost out there, Martin doesn't so much. I expected that. However, Garcia may not need as much time to fit in as Kevin, whom RA said was a little wide-eyed last year.
- Martin admitted it wasn't easy to come in as a rookie and play with guys who had played together for years. Garcia isn't being thrust into quite the same situation.
- Garcia is older than Martin, by about a year. At that age, a year can make a lot of difference in physical maturity and just general maturity.
- Garcia has the advantage of having played under Coach Pitino, who ran a Princeton offense. He should feel comfortable in RA's system more quickly.
I'm excited about both these guys. But I've seen a lot more of Martin than Garcia as an NBA player and Martin has improved from last year. Garcia's going to have to play a lot more, before I'd even consider comparing the two. Even then, what does it matter? They aren't necessarily competing for the same position on the team anyway. Maybe they will bring different, welcome strengths to this team and not have the same weaknesses. I'm hoping they both work out great.
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