[Game] Preseason Game 1: Suns at Kings, 10/5/10 7pm PST

[Asaf]

Oh, come on. Westphal can play M. Landry for 40 minutes. That doesn't mean he has to START him. START him over Casspi and Greene. There's more to it than that, don't you think?

Why not? Say he starts Greene and then sends him to the bench after five minutes for the rest of the game. Would that be better? And what if he starts Casspi, and then decided to go with Greene as the starter when the season starts? Then Casspi will be upset because he will feel like he is being "punished" for something, when the only thing that happened is that PW decided that Greene is a better fit in the starting lineup. Both Casspi and Greene know that one of them will be the starter in the majority of the games this season, and not Landry, so by starting Landry PW is just letting them know that he still hasn't made the decision and that any one of them could be the starter when the season begins. That way, neither of them feels penalized when the decision is actually made, and the coaching staff also gets to take a better look at Landry in the process. I think it's perfectly reasonable.

 

[The Hammer]

I wonder about the whole "send a message" thing. Really, does that sound credible to anyone? Here we have a situation in which Casspi had a terrible second half of last season, Greene didn't exactly cement his position in three land, and they both have known for months that they have tons of competition for the job. Yet, we believe that a message is being sent by starting Landry at the 3? If they haven't got the message yet, then they should both go work for the U.S. Post Office.

I think the message is a side benefit. Helps em stay hungry. Also, he wants to get a good look at M. Landry. If he started one or the other of Greene/Casspi, then there might be a perception that one of them is winning. Those are all decent enough reasons to start M. Landry.

 

[pshn80]

It seems like all the post are saying the same thing - Omri forced shots. And this is not a very smart play with 20 seconds on the clock.

So what's up with the over-reaction?

I was at the game and Omri played beautifully, passed in the early times, shot very good shots with one terrible forced shot (big deal when he had a fabulous passing, shooting game). Has someone else said Casspi didn't have a great game?

 

[Andre87]

I'm gonna put a fly in the ointment and say that Wright playing as much minutes as Donte is where Westphaul got it completely wrong. I dont want another Gerald Wallace slipping away from us

 

[The Hammer]

I'm gonna put a fly in the ointment and say that Wright playing as much minutes as Donte is where Westphaul got it completely wrong. I dont want another Gerald Wallace slipping away from us

I am sympathetic to your concern. I was the biggest Wallace fan in the state back in the day. I literally started the tradition of chanting "Wallace, Wallace!!" at Kings games. That was me.

However, I think Westphal won't make that mistake. I think he's using this time to get a good look at some guys that he won't really get a chance to see a whole lot during the year. I also think he's alternating between Greene/Casspi in games. I think next game we'll see significant minutes given to Greene, with Casspi sitting down, Wright still getting 10-15. We'll see.

 

[Superman]

I'm pretty sure the small forward position is a two horse race, and I don't think M. Landry or Wright are in it.

 

[Kingster]

I went to the game last night.

Given that the Suns are a mid-pack team in the West, and they played their starting line up only minimally (especially in the second half), the win should not be overplayed. Our first string beat their second string (or worse).

That said, the team looked strong. Reke and DMC were in the paint like we haven't seen the Kings in a long while. The days of running out the clock with passes followed with a weak 3 attempt at the buzzer: over.

The "Flexible Pieces" era is over. It's a brand new team. They're going to lose more than they win, but given their youth, potential and bench, it will be more like watching Learns than Losses.

How did the defense look? From the "sound" of it, there was a very high Phoenix shooting percentage, especially the first half.

 

[Kingster]

Why not? Say he starts Greene and then sends him to the bench after five minutes for the rest of the game. Would that be better? And what if he starts Casspi, and then decided to go with Greene as the starter when the season starts? Then Casspi will be upset because he will feel like he is being "punished" for something, when the only thing that happened is that PW decided that Greene is a better fit in the starting lineup. Both Casspi and Greene know that one of them will be the starter in the majority of the games this season, and not Landry, so by starting Landry PW is just letting them know that he still hasn't made the decision and that any one of them could be the starter when the season begins. That way, neither of them feels penalized when the decision is actually made, and the coaching staff also gets to take a better look at Landry in the process. I think it's perfectly reasonable.

Well, I would think they would both be upset and "penalized" if the "scrub" gets the start over either one of them. And if being upset is the benchmark, then Greene should be positively livid. I was wondering if Greene was still on the team, until I heard his name with 5 minutes to go in the first half. Maybe the simplest explanation is the best explanation - maybe M. Landry is just playing better than either one of them in practice.

 

[bajaden]

I am sympathetic to your concern. I was the biggest Wallace fan in the state back in the day. I literally started the tradition of chanting "Wallace, Wallace!!" at Kings games. That was me.

No! That was my son, daughter, and me!! So there!!

 

[bajaden]

Well, I would think they would both be upset and "penalized" if the "scrub" gets the start over either one of them. And if being upset is the benchmark, then Greene should be positively livid. I was wondering if Greene was still on the team, until I heard his name with 5 minutes to go in the first half. Maybe the simplest explanation is the best explanation - maybe M. Landry is just playing better than either one of them in practice.

I think there were a couple of things going on here. I think the fact that Whiteside, Dalembert, and Jackson were all unable to play, mean't that the Kings were a little shorthanded for the game in the frontcourt. Therefore Westphal decided to play Greene at the PF position if necessary, and it turned out thats what happened. That could also explain why he didn't get into the game sooner. With Landry starting, I think its just a matter of Westphal wanting to see more of him and how he played with different combinations. This is pre-season after all. The one thing that bothered me about the game is that C. Landry logged more minutes than anyone and really didn't do very much in that time. He apparently had some nice assists, but the dude is going to lose his starting job to JT if he doesn't start to bring it.

 

[Asaf]

I think there were a couple of things going on here. I think the fact that Whiteside, Dalembert, and Jackson were all unable to play, mean't that the Kings were a little shorthanded for the game in the frontcourt. Therefore Westphal decided to play Greene at the PF position if necessary, and it turned out thats what happened. That could also explain why he didn't get into the game sooner. With Landry starting, I think its just a matter of Westphal wanting to see more of him and how he played with different combinations. This is pre-season after all. The one thing that bothered me about the game is that C. Landry logged more minutes than anyone and really didn't do very much in that time. He apparently had some nice assists, but the dude is going to lose his starting job to JT if he doesn't start to bring it.

I have a feeling that JT is going to win the starting job, rather than Landry losing it. The guy looks like he is ready for his breakout season (hopefully I didn't jinx it... let's forget I said this after this thread is in the archives..).

 

[hardware_failure]

I went to the game. Looking like a 30-40 win team.

I watched the practice videos where Reke's shooting form was looking much improved, but this game it seemed to revert back a bit (using the left arm alot, and that little hop back after release)

The game was def played like a preseason game vs a good normal game, so its hard to make alot of solid judgments, but thats to be expected.

DMC has alot of potential. I think Im going to enjoy watching the Kings ALOT more with him at the 5 vs Hawes.

Its going to be another tough year but it at least seems to have a very good chance at improving over last season.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Not a lot, but either Lopez stole some moves from better twin or Cousins is going to have some growing pains this year. Big man rookie mistakes like not shuffling feet, reaching, hands low, not staying big.

I've always thought Robin had some untapped offensive potential. He showed some flashes at Stanford, but it was unnecessary for the most part with his brother there as the go-to guy. So far, the Suns have mostly used him as a defensive role player. With Amare gone, though, I wouldn't be surprised to see some more offense out of him than people expect. I may be biased as both a Stanford and Cousins fan, but that's my take.

 

[hrdboild]

Robin Lopez had very good buckets on DMC. First time, he posted him up and just backed DMC for an easy lay in. Off picks, Lopez was able to curl around and get a shot/foul.

Cousins is reaching too much, not moving his feet. Seemed to be out of energy at times. I hope it's conditioning and not attitude.

Cousins will have a tough time adjusting to pick/roll defense. He looked like he had a couple indecision moments where he wasnt sure whether to switch back or shade the pg, which resulted him being in no man's land and not being effective.

I obviously can't comment on the game itself not having seen it, but it doesn't surprise me that Robin Lopez is the type of match up that Cousins will struggle with on defense. Lopez is pretty mobile for a big guy and when it comes to interior defense, strength and quickness seem to be mostly an either/or skillset. What Cousins gives us that we didn't have before is a big body who can hold position down low. He's probably never going to be mobile enough to be a great pick and roll defender no matter how much work he puts in, but if he gets the mental element down and the timing he could be good. That takes time and effort.

On the other hand, if Cousins is getting backed down by Robin Lopez regularly than he's not using his lower body properly to create leverage. That's something the coaches should be working on right away. If he can create enough space to box out and gobble rebounds he should be able to use that same body to hold position in the post. He's going to have quicker guys around him like Thompson and Dalembert (and hopefully Whiteside soon as well) who can help on pick and rolls but his role on defense is going to be holding down the paint against the other team's biggest post threat so that needs to be the coaching priority I think.

 

[bajaden]

I obviously can't comment on the game itself not having seen it, but it doesn't surprise me that Robin Lopez is the type of match up that Cousins will struggle with on defense. Lopez is pretty mobile for a big guy and when it comes to interior defense, strength and quickness seem to be mostly an either/or skillset. What Cousins gives us that we didn't have before is a big body who can hold position down low. He's probably never going to be mobile enough to be a great pick and roll defender no matter how much work he puts in, but if he gets the mental element down and the timing he could be good. That takes time and effort.

On the other hand, if Cousins is getting backed down by Robin Lopez regularly than he's not using his lower body properly to create leverage. That's something the coaches should be working on right away. If he can create enough space to box out and gobble rebounds he should be able to use that same body to hold position in the post. He's going to have quicker guys around him like Thompson and Dalembert (and hopefully Whiteside soon as well) who can help on pick and rolls but his role on defense is going to be holding down the paint against the other team's biggest post threat so that needs to be the coaching priority I think.

For what its worth, I talked to a friend that was at the game, and whose opinion I respect. He said that Cousins had some defensive problems at the begining of the game guarding Lopez. Cousins also stated that he was a nervous wreck before the start of the game, so that may have had something to do with it. My friend said he went to the bench around the 6 or 7 minute mark and that when he came back into the game he played much better defense. I'm sure its going to take him a while to get up to speed defensively, but I agree with my friend that he has the potential to be a pretty good post defender down the road. Cousins defensive rebounding percentage was around 42% for the game. Thats up there with Dwight Howard and company. His offensive rebounding percentage was 20% which is very solid. Thompson averaged 20% at both ends of the floor. Solid perfermance for JT all the way around.

 

[bajaden]

I've always thought Robin had some untapped offensive potential. He showed some flashes at Stanford, but it was unnecessary for the most part with his brother there as the go-to guy. So far, the Suns have mostly used him as a defensive role player. With Amare gone, though, I wouldn't be surprised to see some more offense out of him than people expect. I may be biased as both a Stanford and Cousins fan, but that's my take.

I also follow Stanford, and I was a big fan of both the Lopez twins. Your absolutely right about how they were used. Especially when they were on the floor together. Robin was the designated defender and Brook the designated scorer. To be completely honest, Brook did have more skills on the offensive side of the ball, but I always thought that Robin could be a decent scorer if he worked hard to improve in that area.

 

[Kingster]

I think there were a couple of things going on here. I think the fact that Whiteside, Dalembert, and Jackson were all unable to play, mean't that the Kings were a little shorthanded for the game in the frontcourt. Therefore Westphal decided to play Greene at the PF position if necessary, and it turned out thats what happened. That could also explain why he didn't get into the game sooner. With Landry starting, I think its just a matter of Westphal wanting to see more of him and how he played with different combinations. This is pre-season after all. The one thing that bothered me about the game is that C. Landry logged more minutes than anyone and really didn't do very much in that time. He apparently had some nice assists, but the dude is going to lose his starting job to JT if he doesn't start to bring it.

Well, it doesn't really explain the starting issue (at least to me). After all, Westphal didn't start Pooh in place of Reke and have Reke come into the game with 5 minutes left in the half. Ok, I'm not going to belabor that point any longer. I just thought it was odd, and ironic, given the Casspi/Greene debate.

Now, regarding Landry: Do you remember the interview Grant had with Landry at the tail end of last year? He asked him what plans he had to improve his game. At the time, Landry really didn't have an answer for him. Seemed like he hadn't thought about it. Believe it or not, Grant asked him again. Still the same non-answer. Well, thinking back on that interview, maybe that portended Landry's off-season non-workout program. Let me ask you this: If a player works his A$$ off in the offseason, do you think that player is going to look as poorly as Landry has so far? Highly unlikely in my book, unless that player has some physical ailment that we don't know about. I wonder how much time at the beach Landry had this off-season?

 

[Kingsguy881]

^^^I think it is more of Landry focusing on how his brother is doing and how the bigs crunch is affecting him than lack of preparation.

 

[Tetsujin]

Well, it doesn't really explain the starting issue (at least to me). After all, Westphal didn't start Pooh in place of Reke and have Reke come into the game with 5 minutes left in the half. Ok, I'm not going to belabor that point any longer. I just thought it was odd, and ironic, given the Casspi/Greene debate.

Now, regarding Landry: Do you remember the interview Grant had with Landry at the tail end of last year? He asked him what plans he had to improve his game. At the time, Landry really didn't have an answer for him. Seemed like he hadn't thought about it. Believe it or not, Grant asked him again. Still the same non-answer. Well, thinking back on that interview, maybe that portended Landry's off-season non-workout program. Let me ask you this: If a player works his A$$ off in the offseason, do you think that player is going to look as poorly as Landry has so far? Highly unlikely in my book, unless that player has some physical ailment that we don't know about. I wonder how much time at the beach Landry had this off-season?

At least he hasn't been taking off-season workout lessons from Brad Miller.

 

[bajaden]

Well, it doesn't really explain the starting issue (at least to me). After all, Westphal didn't start Pooh in place of Reke and have Reke come into the game with 5 minutes left in the half. Ok, I'm not going to belabor that point any longer. I just thought it was odd, and ironic, given the Casspi/Greene debate.

Now, regarding Landry: Do you remember the interview Grant had with Landry at the tail end of last year? He asked him what plans he had to improve his game. At the time, Landry really didn't have an answer for him. Seemed like he hadn't thought about it. Believe it or not, Grant asked him again. Still the same non-answer. Well, thinking back on that interview, maybe that portended Landry's off-season non-workout program. Let me ask you this: If a player works his A$$ off in the offseason, do you think that player is going to look as poorly as Landry has so far? Highly unlikely in my book, unless that player has some physical ailment that we don't know about. I wonder how much time at the beach Landry had this off-season?

What you say could have some merit. I'd like to think that he put in the time this summer to stay in shape and work on parts of his game that needed improving. Such as rebounding. Logic tells us that he is in shape, and that he's just going through a slump. After all, he is in a contract year, and thats the year when players usually play above their averages. Strangely I wouldn't be surprised to see his rebounding averages go down. He'll be on the floor with either Dalembert or Cousins, and both those guys are rebounding machines, making it harder for Landry to grab a rebound.

He certainly needs to start producing soon. But it is still early, so he has plenty of time to get it together. Maybe he's always a slow starter. After all he wasn't here at this time last year.

 

[bajaden]

At least he hasn't been taking off-season workout lessons from Brad Miller.

How do we know?

 

[Tetsujin]

How do we know?

So far the drug tests have come back negative, knock on wood.

 

[Prince_XY]

Did anyone notice that Marcus Landry started at the 3?

Not Casspi.

Not Greene.

A pox on all your Greene Casspi houses!

Apparently, Westphal doesn't think that much of either Casspi or Greene right now.

It would be hilarious if Marcus would win the 3 position. Would put an end to the Greene/Casspi nonsense.

I wouldn't be scratching my head if it turns out that the Kings delaying of Casspi and Greene's development into eventual all-star players results to both of them being cheap comes that time they are given their qualifying offers. Nice plan for an organization ( who's priority is to save lots of money right now), especially that it is apparent that the Kings will be needing tons of money to pay Evans and Cousins in the future.

Weird conspiracy/idea, but I guess we'll never know for sure.

 

[Spike]

No! That was my son, daughter, and me!! So there!!

I am Spartacus!

 

[bajaden]

I am Spartacus!

I hope not! It didn't end well...