Pre-season game three discussion Kings-Lakers live fm Las Vegas!!!

[bajaden]

thompson had a good game, he is the real story of the game... 19pts 14 reb... i dont know why he was trying to shoot threes but besides that he had a great game.

thompson and hawes combined for 2-6 threes and 3-8 freethrows... thats a damn shame. martin being 2-6 ft doesnt help either....

Thompson shot one three. OK!! You made it sound like he was camped out at the three point line jacking up three's. The three he shot, the time clock was running down. I despise and hate revisionist history. I watched the game dude. So quit making up stuff. As far the freethrows, the Kings sucked tonight. Hawes had a terrible game in the first half but did some to redeem himself in the second half.

A lot of the interior defense breakdown wasn't the fault of Hawes and Thompson. Even the Laker announcers pointed out that when the perimiter defense allows a player to drive right down the lane the only thing between him and the basket is the center. So Hawes had to leave his man to protect the basket. Too often the result was a dunk right behind him. But that wasn't his fault. Someone needs to rotate over and help him. Or, better yet, don't let your man turn the corner unimpeded.

 

[bajaden]

At least one of those was a 30+ foot lob as the end-of-quarter buzzer sounded. I actually give players a lot of credit when they do that, because there's a 95% chance they'll screw up their own numbers, and only a 5% chance it'll help the team, but they go for it anyway. That's the one kind of 3 I want to see our bigs attempting. It shows good attitude.

Thanks for pointing that out. In reality, he only shot one three. I don't believe halfcourt lobs count in the discussion, only in the stats..

 

[Rookie]

(There was a reason why he has 8 rebounds... there were a lot of bad shots.) Huh? How do you rebound good shots?

In LA, to rebound a good shot is to have a good shot missed. How that happen, don't ask me. It's just their logic of thinking. Same go for assist. The ability to assist is not important unless you can do it at the PG postion. Also a rookie under 20 doing well against NBA scrub is not good enough for positive view, he must dominate the starter.

 

[bajaden]

all of that is true but the way tyreke gets his assists the same way players like kobe, wade or roy... beno was playing pg, he sucked and was fumbling the ball. sergio was playing pg and was the first player to start driving and dishing. tyreke was driving and shooting. he has shoot first mentality, he is a fantastic player... but he doesnt play like a pg and has pretty weak court vision.

tyreke shot 6-18, he was blocked 4 times.... he wasnt looking to set anyone up. lots of screen and rolls... he played just like john salmons which i think i mentioned in the beginning.... salmons had no problem getting assists but he wasnt a pg. when salmons was played at pg it didnt work, thats how evans is. they can handle the ball but they cant run the point full time.

i think that evans will be a really good player. as good if not better than martin or even brandon roy but he isnt a pg. he will become the player that john salmons wished he had become. there are going to be a lot of trade martin threads this season, evans will play well this season.

I'm sorry, I just can't take it any longer. How in the hell does someone get 9 assists by not trying to set someone else. Your grabbing at straws and are now loosing all credibilty. To you, Evans is in a lose/lose situation. If he had gotten no assists you criticize him, and if he gets 9 assists, you criticize him. He went out and did his job. And you criticize him. The truth is he should have had at least three more assists. Two easy baskets missed by Hawes and one by Nocioni. You ignore the great full court pass he made to Thompson for a layup. Or the great alleyoop pass to Hawes that was missed, and I thought was the turning point of the game. He did a lot of things right, and you ignore them and only point out that he wasn't playing the point position the whole time. More than that, you state in your eternal wisdom that he has no court vision and will never be a point guard. You are the master of the backhanded compliment. I wouldn't want you judging my work...

 

[Kingsguy881]

(There was a reason why he has 8 rebounds... there were a lot of bad shots.) Huh? How do you rebound good shots?

LMAO, thanks for the good laugh.

 

[bajaden]

Thats one thing I'm not ok with.. Big men shooting 3's. Could someone tell me the last time a championship was won on the shoulders of a jump shooting big man?

The majority of power fowards and centers these days are wussies with a capital P.

I just want to set a few things straight, that have been made crooked by someone that only sees what he wants to see. Thompson only took two shots from the outside the entire evening. One was a three as the shot clock was running down. The other was a near halfcourt lob at the end of the quarter with one tick left on the clock. All of his points were scored in the paint, or at the freethrow line. You don't grab 14 rebounds standing out at the three point line.

If Thompson can score 19 points and grab 14 boards every night, is anyone unhappy with that? Or would everyone be estastic about that? I'm not saying thats going to happen, but if its the critieria for criticism, then its going to be a long season.

 

[bajaden]

I watched almost the entire game, and I saw on a consistent basis the bigs not getting back on defense fast enough to beat the lakers down court, which lead to easy transition baskets.

I was keyed in on Thompson and Hawes the entire night. I can't remember one time that Thompson didn't get back on defense, except when he was on the floor. Hawes on the other hand was late getting back a few times. So if you want to point out that Hawes needs to get back better, fine! But don't generalize and make it look like neither of them got back.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I'm sorry, I just can't take it any longer. How in the hell does someone get 9 assists by not trying to set someone else. Your grabbing at straws and are now loosing all credibilty. To you, Evans is in a lose/lose situation. If he had gotten no assists you criticize him, and if he gets 9 assists, you criticize him. He went out and did his job. And you criticize him. The truth is he should have had at least three more assists. Two easy baskets missed by Hawes and one by Nocioni. You ignore the great full court pass he made to Thompson for a layup. Or the great alleyoop pass to Hawes that was missed, and I thought was the turning point of the game. He did a lot of things right, and you ignore them and only point out that he wasn't playing the point position the whole time. More than that, you state in your eternal wisdom that he has no court vision and will never be a point guard. You are the master of the backhanded compliment. I wouldn't want you judging my work...

You knew, KNEW mind you, coming into the season Evans could have been Michael freaking Jordan and this guy would have taken umbrage with any and almost everything he did in a negative fashion. Don't get worked up too much, I appreciate your posts and enjoy reading them like a lot of others I'm sure. But for every protagonist there is always an antagonist and unfortunately that is the role AM27 is taking.

Evans flat out can play. I don't care what you say, after 3 preseason games dude is looking like a consistent triple double threat. Any normal fan of their team would jump thru hoops to have a player like that on their team. AM27 is not your normal fan, he shares his living quarters with Laker fans for crying out loud. Sleeping with the Enemy.

Evans could come out this year and average 9 assists per game, but in AM27's eyes nothing will ever be good enough because his idol Frodo Baggins wasn't drafted by the Kings and is in fact not even in the NBA. Evans could turn in a HOF career but this guy will lament the fact that he was chosen over a role player. An all star or a superstar? I've chosen my poison.

 

[rainmaker]

all of that is true but the way tyreke gets his assists the same way players like kobe, wade or roy... beno was playing pg, he sucked and was fumbling the ball. sergio was playing pg and was the first player to start driving and dishing. tyreke was driving and shooting. he has shoot first mentality, he is a fantastic player... but he doesnt play like a pg and has pretty weak court vision.

tyreke shot 6-18, he was blocked 4 times.... he wasnt looking to set anyone up. lots of screen and rolls... he played just like john salmons which i think i mentioned in the beginning.... salmons had no problem getting assists but he wasnt a pg. when salmons was played at pg it didnt work, thats how evans is. they can handle the ball but they cant run the point full time.

.

I have to disagree with you here. Tyreke did drive and kick a number of times, and you can't rack up 9 assists without looking to set anyone up.

And how doesn't Tyreke play like a pg? He may not play like a pure pass-first pg, but he plays like a pg that will absolutely abuse his oppenent physically and walk off the court with a tripple double. Salmons and Tyreke aren't the same player, and how did you already decide Tyreke can't play the point full time? You really need to watch more basketball if you think you can make a judgement like that after 3 preseason games.

I will agree with you if you think Tyreke isn't your prototypical pass first pg, but that doesn't mean he can't run the point. T Parker, D Williams, Arenas, D Rose, and D Harris are all damn good pg's who aren't pass-first pgs.

 

[beb0p]

did you watch the game? he got most of his assists as a shooting guard. i never said that he was a bad player, just not a point guard. oddly enough he played most of the game as a point guard.

I didn't watch the game but I have a question. How did Evans do when he played SG?

The thing is, at some point, teams are going to guard Evans with SGs. I remember when Evans was playing SG in college, he was just ordinary (although it was probably due to the system than the fault of the player), buy if Evans can consistently shake the bigger guards and get in the lane, it's going to be good times for the Kings because together with KMart, we're talking about an unguardable backcourt tandem.

It's one of the few remaining questions I have: whether Evans can handle guys his own size or bigger.

 

[CruzDude]

Sorry about fading away at the game last night. 3G reception for iPhone went south and only decent reception area was smokers patio.......no way.

Final summary views from Section 106:

Kevin was Kevin early on, had touch of flu but did decent job guarding Kobe, better than in past. Scored in 1-1/2 quarters and sat in 2nd half.

Tyreke is awesome. He can drive and score on anyone including Kobe and the bigs. Don't remember him shooting any mid-range jumpers tho?? Better ball handling each game. Brought ball up every time he was in except on couple of fast breaks. He is a GUARD! doesn't matter what type guard any more than it matters what position Kobe plays. He will bring ball up court most times and start plays. His driving ability will open up mucho opportunities to pass off. Most impressive was his rebounding down low and in heavy traffic.

Mason was also very impressive for his first time in on limited minutes (17), getting rebounds skying above the bigs in traffic, guarding Kobe and others and in general court sense. I think he is a starter at SF with Noc off bench as Coach has said.

Spencer is much better when JT is in the game. As the only big out there he struggles and is out-of-position on defense more times than not. Is not yet blocking out his man (Bynum most of the time) in any case and needs to learn defensive positioning. Looked really good in short spurts and clearly got outplayed by Bynum. But Spencer was in better shape in the later going and played best in the 4th. His 13 and 9 is good but more was against the Laker scrubs. Probably p......d off at himself and got serious in 4th.

JT was very good to great all night. When he is in with Spencer they do very well. JT played the 5 for 5-10 min and did better than Hawes as he is better at tip-ins and rebounding in traffic. 19 and 14 is impressive. JT gets out on the breaks as well as anyone but much of the time was down low rebounding and banging so did not lead but 1 or 2 breaks. He is progressing much faster than Hawes but at least Hawes can get that killer instinct, then only to control it.

Noce off the bench for 28 min. worked out really well as he had the biggest +/- rating of every one at +8 (means that Kings outscored Lakes by 8 when he was in). He is primarily a scorer/rebounder and is a decent defender, worked against Artest for a bit and held his own. Good court sense. 13 and 6 for the 6th man off the bench is AOK.

Beno off the bench for 20 min likewise seemed to work well as he had 6 pts, 3 ast and 4 stls. His steals showed really good court sense and required big time hustle. He played with Tyreke a number of times and that worked well too.

Omri and Brockman were non-factors and poor Ron got pulled real quick after his second poor foul. Omri struggled and is not yet comfortable with NBA style of play. His mid range and 3-pt shot looks good and he is quick. A work in progress and will take a month or so for him to get comfortable in the NBA.

Sergio played well his first time out in pre-season. Seems to be a good, servicable backup PG, gets up and down very good, is quick and was involved in 3-4 fast breaks finishing one.

K-9 got courtesy minutes and Sean May as well. K9 can still rebound in a crowd but a non-plus.

Donte Greene did not play nor Melvin Ely and Lanny Smith (who disappears in next couple of games). Expect to see Ely battle May for the final slot as roster is currently 16 with Garcia on IR. Ely and Smith are odd men out. Need to see more minutes for May in next couple of games to see how "back" he really is.

Team wise Kings are a work in progress. Their fast breaks were excellent considering. Good ball movement this early in pre-season. First team did well vs. Lakes first string in 1st Q but not so good at start of 3rd without Martin.

The starters appear to be JT, Hawes, Evans, Martin and Mason with Noce, Beno, Casspi and May off bench. I see Noce coming in for Hawes moving JT over to the 5. May then becomes the mystery sub depending on matchups.

Will be at last pre-season vs. Jazz to make good comparisons on progress at team level and progress for Omri, May and Mason.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Expect to see Ely battle May for the final slot as roster is currently 16 with Garcia on IR.

We're assuming that Lanny Smith is getting kicked to the curb, so Ely could still make the team and we'd be at 15 (unless somehow I'm missing somebody!):

1. Evans
2. Udrih
3. Rodriguez
4. Martin
5. Garcia (IR)
6. Mason
7. Nocioni
8. Casspi
9. Greene
10. Thompson
11. May
12. Brockman
13. Thomas
14. Hawes
15. Ely

Besides, I think May's contract is now fully guaranteed (Mason isn't fully guaranteed though), so I don't see us dumping him yet if we don't have to. Ely, if he's battling anybody for the #15 spot, is battling an empty roster slot (which Petrie is known to like to have, for flexibility purposes). I don't know how Garcia's injury will affect that.

 

[bajaden]

Hey Capt.! Do you know if the Kings have picked up Greene's option for next year? I believe that all options have to be picked up by Oct. 31st.. Just curious...

 

[bajaden]

You knew, KNEW mind you, coming into the season Evans could have been Michael freaking Jordan and this guy would have taken umbrage with any and almost everything he did in a negative fashion. Don't get worked up too much, I appreciate your posts and enjoy reading them like a lot of others I'm sure. But for every protagonist there is always an antagonist and unfortunately that is the role AM27 is taking.

Evans flat out can play. I don't care what you say, after 3 preseason games dude is looking like a consistent triple double threat. Any normal fan of their team would jump thru hoops to have a player like that on their team. AM27 is not your normal fan, he shares his living quarters with Laker fans for crying out loud. Sleeping with the Enemy.

Evans could come out this year and average 9 assists per game, but in AM27's eyes nothing will ever be good enough because his idol Frodo Baggins wasn't drafted by the Kings and is in fact not even in the NBA. Evans could turn in a HOF career but this guy will lament the fact that he was chosen over a role player. An all star or a superstar? I've chosen my poison.

Your right, I probably overreacted. And nothing I say is going to open his mind, which is a steel trap containing only preconcieved notions of what he thinks should be. There isn't a player in the NBA that I can't criticize in some fashion, even on his best night, if I look hard enough for fault. Did I think Evans had a great game last night? NO! But I thought he had a damm good one for a 19 year old rookie with one year of college playing against the world champions, and, at times Kobe himself. Did he shoot the ball well? No, probably not, but his bad shooting percentage came mostly from driving into traffic and getting his shot blocked. I'm sure he'll learn from that. I can only remember one time where he left his feet with nowhere to go and turned the ball over.

He made a few mistakes on defense, but it wasn't for lack of trying, and at least one of Beno's steals came because Evans did a great rotation to pick up Beno's man when he commited to the passing lane.

I agree with Cruzy that Hawes is a much better post defender when Thompson is on the floor with him. Thompson at least has his back and does rotate over to help. With Thompson out of the game I saw no one coming to help Hawes when he had to leave his man to pick up someone in the lane. We had some weird combinations on the floor at times, so maybe that contributed to some of the breakdowns. In the second half we saw less of that, and the result was that the Lakers didn't score in the paint as much.

Look Folks. Hawes doesn't intimidate anyone right now. Maybe, and I did say maybe, with a lot of work he can become more of a defensive factor. But in the meantime, he's going to need team help. The rotations need to be on time. Unless your in a one on one post up defensive situation, the person getting dunked on is seldom the one responsible for the dunk. Its usually caused by someone not rotating to help, and begins by someone being beat on the perimiter.

All in all, I thought the defense had some good moments. It was however somewhat ragged, especially in the first half. But I did see improvements. I would hope that having a set rotation with everyone knowing their role will lend itself toward better defense.

 

[AriesMar27]

I didn't watch the game but I have a question. How did Evans do when he played SG?

The thing is, at some point, teams are going to guard Evans with SGs. I remember when Evans was playing SG in college, he was just ordinary (although it was probably due to the system than the fault of the player), buy if Evans can consistently shake the bigger guards and get in the lane, it's going to be good times for the Kings because together with KMart, we're talking about an unguardable backcourt tandem.

It's one of the few remaining questions I have: whether Evans can handle guys his own size or bigger.

tyreke played well at sg, he can get to the rim almost at will against fisher. Had some problems with Kobe but play well against Sasha and brown. He tries to do too much that's why I kept comparing him to salmons.

 

[fnordius]

Your right, I probably overreacted.

You know, in the cool light of day, with last night's beverages out of our collective systems, I have to say that half of the posts in this thread were overreaction of one kind or another.

We've had three preseason games so far. Two against Portland, which were fairly similar to each other (no surprise), and one against the Lakers - for a half, and against the Sasha Vujacic All-Stars for a half - and it was very, very different.

Nobody should be reading too much into last night's game, unless it was consistent with an obvious, long-term pattern. It's one freakin' game, and not even one that counts. You might as well ask half a dozen of your friends about their political opinions, and try to call the 2012 election results based on that.

Sometimes Kevin is going to miss 4 FTs in a row. Sometimes KT will make a triple double. Or Tony Delk will score 53 on us. Our games are full of freakish anomalies. Give it another dozen games before jumping to any sweeping conclusions.

 

[AriesMar27]

They overreact because they are grade a haters. I never said anything negative about Evans during the game. At one point I was giving him too much credit. Evans played a good game for a rookie. It wasn't the prettiest but it worked out in the end.

 

[Kingsguy881]

tyreke played well at sg, he can get to the rim almost at will against fisher. Had some problems with Kobe but play well against Sasha and brown. He tries to do too much that's why I kept comparing him to salmons.

Tyreke played well where Westphal put him. Quit being an ***, ok? Its REALLY getting old and tired.

 

[fnordius]

They overreact...

So are you thinking that there was no instant during which you might have taken that game a little bit too seriously?

 

[Dreadnought]

They overreact because they are grade a haters. I never said anything negative about Evans during the game. At one point I was giving him too much credit. Evans played a good game for a rookie. It wasn't the prettiest but it worked out in the end.

Ironic.

Tyreke played well where Westphal put him. Quit being an ***, ok? Its REALLY getting old and tired.

Ironic.

 

[AriesMar27]

So are you thinking that there was no instant during which you might have taken that game a little bit too seriously?

Totally taken out of context. They argue like I talk about Evans being a bad player. That's how they reply to every critcism of Evans. I was equally critical of Martin, beno, nocioni and hawes. But the only thing that they want to talk about is how tyreke had 9 assists while playing sg and using that as proof that he can play pg. The very first thing I said about Evans in this thread is that he is a lot better than I thought that he was. But the fact that I said that he got most of his assists as a sg starts a three page arguement. 9 assists is 9 assists but if Kobe had 9 assists he still would be a pg. That's all that I was trying to say. To those who tried to use his 9 assists as proof that he can play pg. Maybe they don't want him to be a sg because he can't dunk.

 

[AriesMar27]

Ironic.



Ironic.

that's what I'm talking about, getting attacked for a compliment....

 

[Dreadnought]

that's what I'm talking about, getting attacked for a compliment....

Alright fine, in your defense, your last post was a "compliment". But it seemed like you still add subtle hints of I-Hate-Tyreke. IDK, you just give that vibe. I apologize if you felt like my post was an attack. I was intending to be more sarcastic than anything.

Also, you mentioned you thought Sergio should start over Tyreke. I'm not saying Sergio is a bad player, but even Beno looked good enough last night to lead us to a better season than Sergio. Tyreke played WELL at the point last night, everything ran very fluid.

 

[AriesMar27]

Evans is definitely better than Sergio but whenever Sergio drives he will pass the ball. Evans kept getting blocked. That and he would be awesome as a 6th man since Garcia is out and the flow of th offense wouldn't be interupted. There were so many times where he just had tunnel vision. We were lucky that they were playing against the lakers bench. Had the lakers maintained their 21 point lead the King's wouldn't have looked as fluid as everyone is making the boxscore out to be.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Hey Capt.! Do you know if the Kings have picked up Greene's option for next year? I believe that all options have to be picked up by Oct. 31st.. Just curious...

I don't remember seeing anything about the option being picked up so for now I'm assuming it hasn't been.

 

[fnordius]

I'm about to post the cumulative stats, with per-48s, etc, for the main players of the preseason (so far). Maybe it'll add a bit of perspective.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

They argue like I talk about Evans being a bad player.

...

Maybe they don't want him to be a sg because he can't dunk.

For somebody who claims not to "talk about Evans being a bad player" you sure seem to take every opportunity to get a dig in against him. Perhaps that's what has everybody confused.

 

[AriesMar27]

For somebody who claims not to "talk about Evans being a bad player" you sure seem to take every opportunity to get a dig in against him. Perhaps that's what has everybody confused.

Probably right, I don't think that he is a bad player. I just criticize him a lot because I don't see this as a good idea. I'm not against having Evans on the team just the role that they are trying to give him. I think that he would be better suited at sg. He will be a great overall addition to this team and I hope that he spends his entire career as a king. Unless he gets an attitude of course.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Probably right, I don't think that he is a bad player. I just criticize him a lot because I don't see this as a good idea. I'm not against having Evans on the team just the role that they are trying to give him. I think that he would be better suited at sg. He will be a great overall addition to this team and I hope that he spends his entire career as a king. Unless he gets an attitude of course.

Never a compliment without a dig. That should be what you lead in every time you post regarding Evans.

 

[AriesMar27]

Never a compliment without a dig. That should be what you lead in every time you post regarding Evans.

that's how I treat all players. Name one player that I don't criticize? Besides lebron James of course.... I have created threads trading every player on our team this past summer. I've always been like that.... I remeber where I used to criticize our 2001 team like they were the worst team in the world. That's why the veteran posters more or less ignore my rantings... Unless it gets into personal attacks or inappropriate language. My join date says 2004 but I've been posting here since 2001....

Go through all of the old threads from martins rookie season or back when we had Gerald wallace. I was the same way... You think that I was crazy about rubio this draft, I remember arguing about douby and how I wanted Sergio... Man.....