Power Forwards: Kings vs. the West

[nbrans]

PF is probably the most important position in the league.

Nope. Point guard. Oh wait, Center. No, make that shooting guard. Nope, Small forward.

To say that one position is more important than another is ridiculous. Was Dennis Rodman more important than Michael Jordan? Robert Horry was more important than Shaq and Kobe?

I'm not saying that Kenny Thomas is an ideal starting power forward, but you're simply not accepting reality by saying that absolutely positively some magical trade is going to happen during the offseason that delivers the Kings a star power forward. You can't even name one possibility! I'm just insanely tired of hearing "Kenny Thomas isn't going to be the starting power forward, Kenny Thomas isn't going to be the starting power forward, Kenny Thomas is going to be the starting power forward."

Guess what. Kenny Thomas might be the Kings starting power forward. Either point out someone the Kings could realistically target or stop acting like you have some sort of crystal ball that says Kenny Thomas is getting traded for, well, who knows, but it will happen because I say so.

 

[Kings113]

I was talking about in the league today.

I don't know where you're getting that I mentioned us getting a "star PF". I never did. Yes, of course Thomas "might be" the starting PF. I named Reggie Evans, Griffin, Walker, Boozer many times on this board, those are predictions and what I think. Some stronger than others. Not all of them would be involved with Thomas, or at all.

Crystal ball? That's childish. I was making a PREDICTION that Thomas won't be the Kings starting PF, and I think he'll be traded. It's evident from Petrie's talks after the playoffs. I stand by both.

I just think it's ridiculous that people think it'll be "fine" or "okay" if Kenny Thomas is our starting PF for the whole season. Short-term? Yeah, fine.

Speculation/discussion/predictions are reasons for message boards.

 

[Padrino]

I was talking about in the league today.

I don't know where you're getting that I mentioned us getting a "star PF". I never did. Yes, of course Thomas "might be" the starting PF. I named Reggie Evans, Griffin, Walker, Boozer many times on this board, those are predictions and what I think. Some stronger than others. Not all of them would be involved with Thomas, or at all.

Crystal ball? That's childish. I was making a PREDICTION that Thomas won't be the Kings starting PF, and I think he'll be traded. It's evident from Petrie's talks after the playoffs. I stand by both.

Speculation/discussion/predictions are reasons for message boards.

no, whats evident from "petrie's talks" is that the kings need size, and are going to try and pursue bigger players. you're forgetting the other guys in the big man rotation. corliss williamson, brian skinner, brad miller, and possibly, darius songaila. any number of possible trades could occur with any number of kings players. its not exclusive to a kenny thomas deal, though he has the most trade value of the post-webber-trade fodder.

 

[Kings113]

I was talking about starting positions, because Thomas was the starting PF, but you're right about other players. I definitely think Corliss/Skinner/Songaila/Martin, etc. could be involved trades. That's been established all over this board, by the Bee, Petrie, and by me. Everyone but probably the core is a potential piece in a trade.

 

[VF21]

Nope. Point guard. Oh wait, Center. No, make that shooting guard. Nope, Small forward.

To say that one position is more important than another is ridiculous. Was Dennis Rodman more important than Michael Jordan? Robert Horry was more important than Shaq and Kobe?

I'm not saying that Kenny Thomas is an ideal starting power forward, but you're simply not accepting reality by saying that absolutely positively some magical trade is going to happen during the offseason that delivers the Kings a star power forward. You can't even name one possibility! I'm just insanely tired of hearing "Kenny Thomas isn't going to be the starting power forward, Kenny Thomas isn't going to be the starting power forward, Kenny Thomas is going to be the starting power forward."

Guess what. Kenny Thomas might be the Kings starting power forward. Either point out someone the Kings could realistically target or stop acting like you have some sort of crystal ball that says Kenny Thomas is getting traded for, well, who knows, but it will happen because I say so.

If you're "insanely tired of hearing 'Kenny Thomas isn't going to be the starting power forward'" now, just wait until late August/early September.

You really need to quit personalizing things ...

This IS a message board. People post their opinions, which is why we exist. If you don't agree with their opinion, you can either post your dissenting opinion or you can move on to the next thread.

There is no need to berate someone because you don't care for their takes.

There are message boards out there that DO thrive on those kinds of exchanges. Kingsfans.com just simply isn't one of them.

 

[VF21]

its not exclusive to a kenny thomas deal, though he has the most trade value of the post-webber-trade fodder.

And that really bugs me.



If Thomas has so much trade value, how come his name hasn't been mentioned in even ONE RUMOR from other teams? In a year when almost every breathing player has been rumored to be involved in at least one trade scenario, isn't it just a little pathetic that none of the "three moveable pieces" we acquired on Feb. 23 are being shown even peripheral attention?

 

[Kings113]

Brian Skinner was mentioned in a couple rumors early in the free-agent period... But, I don't think just because they haven't been mentioned in rumors doesn't mean they're known by the teams.

 

[VF21]

Brian Skinner was mentioned in a couple rumors early in the free-agent period... But, I don't think just because they haven't been mentioned in rumors doesn't mean they're known by the teams.

Not my point.

What I was alluding to was the comment made right after the end of the season by none other than Gavin Maloof, when he said the trade gave us more options because we now had "three moveable pieces" Petrie could use in rebuilding the team. They may be moveable, but that doesn't mean they're desirable.

 

[Kings113]

Ah, okay.

 

[Padrino]

And that really bugs me.



If Thomas has so much trade value, how come his name hasn't been mentioned in even ONE RUMOR from other teams? In a year when almost every breathing player has been rumored to be involved in at least one trade scenario, isn't it just a little pathetic that none of the "three moveable pieces" we acquired on Feb. 23 are being shown even peripheral attention?

thats why i never bought into the webber trade. i dont believe thomas, williamson, and skinner can be considered "moveable pieces," leastways not "easily moveable pieces" or "desireable" pieces. we broke up webb's contract into three smaller pieces. thats all. and consequently, we bled talent in exchange for 3 tweeners. i can see the positives for moving webb's contract, but i just dont think the trade that went down made us a better team. i dont care about injury, limited mobility, fractured relationships, etc. i dont believe in trading star talent for less-than-star talent. if we can move one of the three contracts this off season (and i have faith that petrie will), then i wll feel a little better about this situation. but, as of right now, we're too lacking in the defensive department to be holding on to 3, not one or two, but 3 undersized roleplayers. and, yes, i agree, the fact that kenny thomas is the one of the three with the most trade value is upsetting, because his trade value isnt all that great to begin with.

 

[KP]

i can see the positives for moving webb's contract, but i just dont think the trade that went down made us a better team.

I agree with your whole take, but this line in particular... for me at least is the whole point. When you have a lot of talented players aging that maybe you do need to move, you don't just let them walk away for nothing, and you don't just make moves to make them. Petrie said he traded Webb for more flexibility, if we don't have any, then the goal of his trade was not achieved. If we can move 2 or even 1 of these guys for some talent, and we are a better team, then it was a success. Why is that so hard for some people to get? Well written post Padrino.

 

[Packt]

If you're "insanely tired of hearing 'Kenny Thomas isn't going to be the starting power forward'" now, just wait until late August/early September.

You really need to quit personalizing things ...

This IS a message board. People post their opinions, which is why we exist. If you don't agree with their opinion, you can either post your dissenting opinion or you can move on to the next thread.

There is no need to berate someone because you don't care for their takes.

There are message boards out there that DO thrive on those kinds of exchanges. Kingsfans.com just simply isn't one of them.

I'm with nbrans. It's tiring hearing that Kenny Thomas won't be the starting PF like its fact. It isn't.

I just hope Kings113 is Petrie in disguise and he's just letting us in on his plans.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm with nbrans. It's tiring hearing that Kenny Thomas won't be the starting PF like its fact. It isn't.

I just hope Kings113 is Petrie in disguise and he's just letting us in on his plans.

I was petrified before the offseason started that Petrie WAS considering using Kenny as his new starting PF. Now that said, there have already been two confirmed attempts to replace him this summer -- Nene and Shareef (assuming Reef was not coming in as a SF). So at this point my worry is not that Geoof WANTS Thomas back as a starter, but rather that he might have acquired so much untradeable garbage in the Webber move that even Geoff cannot find any takers for a starting PF in return.

 

[HndsmCelt]

So at this point my worry is not that Geoof WANTS Thomas back as a starter, but rather that he might have acquired so much untradeable garbage in the Webber move that even Geoff cannot find any takers for a starting PF in return.

OUCH! Thanks for a new worst nightmare. I will sleep soooooooooo much worse now!

 

[captain bill]

That's been looking more and more plausible. Maybe Petrie's magic has finally run out. He should go ask for his soul back.

 

[Kings113]

I'm with nbrans. It's tiring hearing that Kenny Thomas won't be the starting PF like its fact. It isn't.

I just hope Kings113 is Petrie in disguise and he's just letting us in on his plans.

Nothing is fact about Thomas yet, it's predictions and speculation based on Petrie's comments and Thomas' size.

 

[GreenKing]

I say stick with Kenny Thomas. Playing 31 minutes a game and putting up 14.5/8.7/2.9apg/1spg/.42bpg is solid considering he was thrown into the Kings system after playing a few years in the philly system with AI.

Now that the Kings can play as a team from training camp on they can easily win 55-60 this year imo. Brad Miller is hitting the weights and with skinner backing him up that is a solid 5 position. Thomas/Songaila?/Williamson at the 4, Peja/Williamson and even bonzi at the 3 would work, bonzi/martin/rook at the 2 and bibby/hart running the team. I like that line up.

 

[SacTownKid]

No one knows who we'll get to replace Thomas, but it will be someone is the point. Petrie's made that clear many times following the playoffs (size down low, being the PF position). That's what this board is for, to discuss/predict/speculate. Which is what I was doing.

So I assume by your talk of his averages w/ the Kings, that you do want him as our starting power foward for next season? I'm quite glad you're not making the moves for this team.

I wasn't talking about Thomas last season, because that was short-term, this would be for a full season. I never talked about a star PF.

PF is probably the most important position in the league.

Petrie also said that Kenny is a good fit for this team. He also never specifically said that we need to get bigger at the PF position, he just said that "he wants to get bigger" that could mean the bench even if the most likely candidate would be our PF. Nbrans makes very good points and they are ones I completely agree with. I don't think it would be a garantee that players like Reggie Evans and Eddie Griffin would start over Kenny. I don't think they would.

 

[ParniValjak]

And that really bugs me.



If Thomas has so much trade value, how come his name hasn't been mentioned in even ONE RUMOR from other teams? In a year when almost every breathing player has been rumored to be involved in at least one trade scenario, isn't it just a little pathetic that none of the "three moveable pieces" we acquired on Feb. 23 are being shown even peripheral attention?

And which Kings player that is not a FA has been reported as being wanted by other clubs?????? NONE.

So by your suggestion, because they haven't been spoken about that must mean there is no interest from other sides, hence their trade value is minimal. Has anyone been reported as interested in Bibby, Peja or Miller this off-season?????? NO.

Just because their names are not mentioned in the media, doesn't mean there is no interest in them

We will have to wait and see on this one. Generally players that are FA or players that teams want to move at all costs (J-Will and Bonzi) are the ones that get all the attention.

 

[VF21]

And which Kings player that is not a FA has been reported as being wanted by other clubs?????? NONE.

Not exactly true.

I read boards dedicated to several other teams. I've seen mention of Brad, Bibby and Peja in their equivalent of our trade threads. What I haven't seen is any interest whatsoever in Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson or Brian Skinner on their own. If anything, there is a grudging admission that if someone was to trade us for one of our core they would have to take one of the three.

I wasn't talking about the media necessarily. It's pretty telling they aren't even being bandied about on message boards.

Petrie does indeed have his work cut out for him. If Webber has even just an average year in Philly, then the whole Feb. 23 debacle is going to look even worse than it does right now.

 

[SacTownKid]

Not exactly true.

I read boards dedicated to several other teams. I've seen mention of Brad, Bibby and Peja in their equivalent of our trade threads. What I haven't seen is any interest whatsoever in Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson or Brian Skinner on their own. If anything, there is a grudging admission that if someone was to trade us for one of our core they would have to take one of the three.

I wasn't talking about the media necessarily. It's pretty telling they aren't even being bandied about on message boards.

Petrie does indeed have his work cut out for him. If Webber has even just an average year in Philly, then the whole Feb. 23 debacle is going to look even worse than it does right now.

Actually I've seen quite a bit of talk about Skinner on realgm.com. Seems like a lot of teams could use, but then again out of the 3 players we got back it seems like he would be the last fans would want to be traded.

 

[ParniValjak]

Not exactly true.

I read boards dedicated to several other teams. I've seen mention of Brad, Bibby and Peja in their equivalent of our trade threads. What I haven't seen is any interest whatsoever in Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson or Brian Skinner on their own. If anything, there is a grudging admission that if someone was to trade us for one of our core they would have to take one of the three.

I wasn't talking about the media necessarily. It's pretty telling they aren't even being bandied about on message boards.

Petrie does indeed have his work cut out for him. If Webber has even just an average year in Philly, then the whole Feb. 23 debacle is going to look even worse than it does right now.

C'mon now, how much credibility do message boards have when it comes to these things. Last time I checked fans weren't the ones making all the moves The other day I saw someone on realgm suggest a rather ridcilous trade where they trade a couple of role players for a healthy and in his prime star.

Fact of the matter is that Kenny Thomas is a good player but a limited one. He is not garbage but he is no world beater either. Now he might not have any trade value amongst fans but I am sure some GMs would at least be intrigued.

Message boards are not great source when it comes to who actual GMs would be interested in and who they wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole

 

[VF21]

It isn't a matter of credibility. It's a matter of fans - who will post even the most ridiculous of trade scenarios - not mentioning Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner or Corliss Williamson.

Why is that? Because NONE of those three are prime trade fodder on their own. That's a fact; not speculation.

I'm not going to argue my obeservation, however, because I don't really understand what you're arguing about. I noticed something and commented upon it.

There is one thing, however. I think SOME message boards are a pretty good source of information. There are some great boards with really knowledgeable fans who can and do make pretty close predictions about what their front offices may be doing.

Peace.

 

[Kings113]

Petrie also said that Kenny is a good fit for this team. He also never specifically said that we need to get bigger at the PF position, he just said that "he wants to get bigger" that could mean the bench even if the most likely candidate would be our PF. Nbrans makes very good points and they are ones I completely agree with. I don't think it would be a garantee that players like Reggie Evans and Eddie Griffin would start over Kenny. I don't think they would.

Uh, k.

But the PF position is still the biggest weakness in regards to Petrie's "getting bigger down low" comments, obviously stemming from the playoffs the most. The starting spot drawing to that the most.

I never said Griffin or Evans would be "guaranteed" to start over Thomas. I ultimately think so though.

 

[Bricklayer]

Now that the Kings can play as a team from training camp on they can easily win 55-60 this year imo.

Goodness -- we're going to have some SERIOUS work ahead of us to get close to that level.

We were a .500 team after the trades. We got whipped out of the first round of the playoffs. We traded away our super 6th man. We've currently got a starting power forward who might be shorter than two of our backup OGs. Our only guy who can play backup center is 6'9". We certainly have no superstar, and did not even have a single All-Star last year. Our best post players are two 6'5" guys -- one an unstable OG who was kicked off his team's playoff roster, the other a 32yr old journeyman SF who we inexplicably liked to put at C. We allowed the second most points in the league last year. Our three best returning players are all unathletic jumpshooters. In the space of a single year we've lost 2/3 of the core of the only Sacto era team to EVER win 60 games.....And now we're going to win 60 again???????

I suspect you could win a LOT of money at Vegas if you turn out to be right. Just don't bet your rent money on it or you're going to end up having to move into your mom's basement.

 

[Padrino]

Goodness -- we're going to have some SERIOUS work ahead of us to get close to that level.

We were a .500 team after the trades. We got whipped out of the first round of the playoffs. We traded away our super 6th man. We've currently got a starting power forward who might be shorter than two of our backup OGs. Our only guy who can play backup center is 6'9". We certainly have no superstar, and did not even have a single All-Star last year. Our best post players are two 6'5" guys -- one an unstable OG who was kicked off his team's playoff roster, the other a 32yr old journeyman SF who we inexplicably liked to put at C. We allowed the second most points in the league last year. Our three best returning players are all unathletic jumpshooters. In the space of a single year we've lost 2/3 of the core of the only Sacto era team to EVER win 60 games.....And now we're going to win 60 again???????

I suspect you could win a LOT of money at Vegas if you turn out to be right. Just don't bet your rent money on it or you're going to end up having to move into your mom's basement.

ouch...talk about a bitter outlook on things. unfortunately, its a pretty accurate assessment of the current "State of the Kings." it is apparent, though, that a lot of our problems right now have to do with size. so, if GP can correct that sufficiently enough, then i think we could be a competitive playoff team again, rather than a first round dropout. after we solve our starting PF/C problems, its just a matter of filling out the holes in the bench. no easy task, obviously, despite the matter-of-fact tone a lot of us take when we consider the kings needs. but, if there were any GM in the league i felt could make us better with limited trade bait, it would be geoff petrie.

 

[Packt]

Uh, k.

But the PF position is still the biggest weakness in regards to Petrie's "getting bigger down low" comments, obviously stemming from the playoffs the most. The starting spot drawing to that the most.

I never said Griffin or Evans would be "guaranteed" to start over Thomas. I ultimately think so though.

The 5 spot was where we got out muscled. It's just unfortunate we weren't able to rotate the 4 down low like we have in the past.

 

[bozzwell]

Goodness -- we're going to have some SERIOUS work ahead of us to get close to that level.

We were a .500 team after the trades. We got whipped out of the first round of the playoffs. We traded away our super 6th man. We've currently got a starting power forward who might be shorter than two of our backup OGs. Our only guy who can play backup center is 6'9". We certainly have no superstar, and did not even have a single All-Star last year. Our best post players are two 6'5" guys -- one an unstable OG who was kicked off his team's playoff roster, the other a 32yr old journeyman SF who we inexplicably liked to put at C. We allowed the second most points in the league last year. Our three best returning players are all unathletic jumpshooters. In the space of a single year we've lost 2/3 of the core of the only Sacto era team to EVER win 60 games.....And now we're going to win 60 again???????

I suspect you could win a LOT of money at Vegas if you turn out to be right. Just don't bet your rent money on it or you're going to end up having to move into your mom's basement.

Add to that that we might be developing a reputation that is somwhat similar to post-MJ Bulls under Kraus: Blowing out a team in a single year and overtly dumping players that built the franchise. We may rationalise all the moves as for the "good of the team/franchise" from not extending Vlade to trading Doug (even though we drafter his replacement) to breaking Chris's contract in three, but to other players Kings sure don't look like a fun team to play for anymore. I may be exaggerating, but I don't see any bright spots in the immediate future.

Meh...

 

[Kings113]

The 5 spot was where we got out muscled. It's just unfortunate we weren't able to rotate the 4 down low like we have in the past.

That's because Brad and Skinner were both injured of course. Ostertag had one or two solid stints, Brad had a few moments, Skinner didn't get to do much anyways.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Goodness -- we're going to have some SERIOUS work ahead of us to get close to that level.

We were a .500 team after the trades. We got whipped out of the first round of the playoffs. We traded away our super 6th man. We've currently got a starting power forward who might be shorter than two of our backup OGs. Our only guy who can play backup center is 6'9". We certainly have no superstar, and did not even have a single All-Star last year. Our best post players are two 6'5" guys -- one an unstable OG who was kicked off his team's playoff roster, the other a 32yr old journeyman SF who we inexplicably liked to put at C. We allowed the second most points in the league last year. Our three best returning players are all unathletic jumpshooters. In the space of a single year we've lost 2/3 of the core of the only Sacto era team to EVER win 60 games.....And now we're going to win 60 again???????

I suspect you could win a LOT of money at Vegas if you turn out to be right. Just don't bet your rent money on it or you're going to end up having to move into your mom's basement.

I can only take solace in the fact that the summer is far from over, and Petrie said he still has things he'd like to do.