Power Forwards: Kings vs. the West

[Kings113]

How about Elson or Cato to back-up Miller?

 

[Kings113]

Hell, why not mention Calvin Booth... he's to be released by the bucks.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Brad was healthy to start the year, and there was no tough mofo to be seen.

Think Brad's problem is that he is essentially a follower, not a leader. Paired with ferocious defenders ala Oakley or Artest etc., he was inspired and they bled off onto him. Paired with Webb, Peja, Mike, Cat etc. etc., he's just a ground bound white guy.

Funny how Webb and Cat could be mistaken for ground bound white men

At any rate, here's to hoping that Brad and Bonzi become buddies. Or is psycho Brad not the next best thing to tough mofo Brad?

 

[Bricklayer]

Having size as a backup improved Miller when he was teamed with Vlade. I remember how surprising it was to see them do well together -- DEFENSIVELy.
I even remember Miller manning up on KG and making him work (2 years ago, of course).

Rasho would help Miller some. Still, we'd have one of the worst front lines in the West. As awful as they are, I'd rather have Mims, Kwame and Odom than Miller-Rasho and Peja. Same ol' athletic story. Geez, the more I think about it -- the Kings would get murdered.

Dum--dee--dum can't see how we can get anyone of worth without losing Peja or Miller. More importantly, I don't see how our style can change without losing one of them.

Brad got LIT UP by KG. Destroyed. (Also by Duncan that year.) The saving grace was that Brad had a huge offensive game himself against Minnesota one time out. But KG went 28 11 and 3 against him in game 1, and 33 25 and 6 against him in Game 2.

 

[SacTownKid]

Brad was healthy to start the year, and there was no tough mofo to be seen.

Think Brad's problem is that he is essentially a follower, not a leader. Paired with ferocious defenders ala Oakley or Artest etc., he was inspired and they bled off onto him. Paired with Webb, Peja, Mike, Cat etc. etc., he's just a ground bound white guy.

I am not anti-getting Rasho if the price is right -- we could certainly use his size and shotblocking. But on the other hand this team is about one more soft player from having to wear skirts out onto the court, and Rasho is NOT a step in the right direction on that front.

It has a lot to do with roles as well. His role on this team is not to be a bruiser. Obviously the way he is told to play has to do with trying not to pick up silly fouls. He is out there with his arms up, a la Chris Webber, praying nobody calls a foul while on defense.

 

[AriesMar27]

who could we get that would make us good enough to beat the spurs? even if we traded peja.... rasho/miller front court would be better than most of us are giving them credit for.... as long as we add a few more hustle players we'd be fine against teams like the rockets, suns, lakers, twolves, mavs and nuggets.... the spurs would kill us regardless, short of the kings landing kg.... boozer would be nice but it still wouldnt be enough...

 

[captain bill]

I don't think that is true. We need a better balanced team with a good bench. We may not be able to match up one on one with Duncan, but we can build a team that is better than the Spurs' team. It won't be easy, but saying that we couldn't build a team to beat them is like saying the Kings could never beat the Lakers of old because we couldn't match up against Shaq or Kobe one on one. It's a team game, and we need to create a good team.

 

[VF21]

We aren't going to magically find the one player (barring the interesting paradox of us taking Duncan away from them) who would enable us to beat the Spurs in a best of seven series IMHO.

 

[captain bill]

^^^Exactly, but that doesn't mean we can't beat them. It won't be one player who takes us back to the top, it will be many players who can work together to create a better team.

 

[Londonking]

I would hope EVERY member of this site believes we can beat the spurs. but can we beat them repetitively over a 7 game series? Last year's Kings ..No, i would doubt it very much.

As for the Kings of 05 / 06 ? Maybe, Bonzi is going to help alot, i feel sure and we dont think Petrie is finished with moves ahead of the season start so, for the moment we can only hope.

...and when all's said and done that what makes us such great fans, there's always hope!

 

[LA King Fan II]

Brick, I assume you were referring to the Miller in the playoffs. In the regular season before Webber made his comeback he was very very good defensively. Not lit up at all. Then limp-along came back and we soured.

I wasn't referring to the playoffs - but Miller did a good job against Duncan as best as anyone.

 

[captain bill]

Agree, but it's gonna take more than just Bonzi. I think that if we add some very good players to the bench- the roleplaying type who can score and rebound, then we can come close to being a contender and pull some upsets in the playoffs. We will continue to be one of the best scoring teams in basketball, and if we have tough guys who can rebound and play defense in stretches then we can become a team could enough to hang with the big boys.

 

[LA King Fan II]

Actually those playoff stats by Garnett were enhanced by Webber's return and his at least 50-50 guarding of the big guy. I'm not saying he can do it anymore (since I haven't seen it since) but he was very good in the regular season on man to man defense (i watched it closely because we were quite a good team before Webber) and stats don't tell all.

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick, I assume you were referring to the Miller in the playoffs. In the regular season before Webber made his comeback he was very very good defensively. Not lit up at all. Then limp-along came back and we soured.

I wasn't referring to the playoffs - but Miller did a good job against Duncan as best as anyone.

No, I was referring to Brad in the first two meetings of the regular season that year (he missed #3 with his injury). He got ANNIHILATED by KG on defense. No answer at all. Nor would I have expected him to have one.

 

[SacTownKid]

Hell, why not mention Calvin Booth... he's to be released by the bucks.

If we could get him for the vet. minimum, sure. Wouldn't be that bad of a backup for Brad. He can block some shots, and take up some space for those 10 minutes Brad isn't on the floor.

We need some big bodies, he is certainly no answer but could be a nice 2nd or 3rd option at C.

 

[nbrans]

I posted this in the FA tracking thread as well, but Hoopsworld is reporting a rumored three way deal between Memphis, Miami and Boston. Jason Williams would go to Boston, Michael Doleac to Memphis, and Antoine Walker to Miami.

If that's the case, the Kings aren't getting a new starting 4 through free agency.

 

[VF21]

Antoine Walker and Shaq on the same team? In the same zip code?

IMHO, there isn't enough room in Miami for both those egos...

 

[ONEZERO]

Would memphis even benefit?

 

[Bricklayer]

I posted this in the FA tracking thread as well, but Hoopsworld is reporting a rumored three way deal between Memphis, Miami and Boston. Jason Williams would go to Boston, Michael Doleac to Memphis, and Antoine Walker to Miami.

If that's the case, the Kings aren't getting a new starting 4 through free agency.

And thank god for that if Walker was that starting 4. Note the championship contender thinks of him as a 3, or even a 6th man.

 

[nbrans]

Would memphis even benefit?

It would be a cost-cutting move for Memphs. Doleac will only make $2.6 million compared to JWill's $7.5 so there is a trade exception involved.

 

[Kings113]

I posted this in the FA tracking thread as well, but Hoopsworld is reporting a rumored three way deal between Memphis, Miami and Boston. Jason Williams would go to Boston, Michael Doleac to Memphis, and Antoine Walker to Miami.

If that's the case, the Kings aren't getting a new starting 4 through free agency.

If we don't get Evans or Griffin (it wasn't reported on any tickers or on realgm/hoopshype/insidehoops that he agreed to a deal), yes. Then we'll do it through a trade . I'd be perfectly fine and okay if we don't get Walker, I'd put a bunch of guys ahead of Walker.

 

[Bricklayer]

If we could get him for the vet. minimum, sure. Wouldn't be that bad of a backup for Brad. He can block some shots, and take up some space for those 10 minutes Brad isn't on the floor.

We need some big bodies, he is certainly no answer but could be a nice 2nd or 3rd option at C.

Agreed -- I actually think Booth wouold be a decent 4th/5th big for us if you had real starters ahead of him.

Problem is that the way I understand this amnesty deal, released players still cost the new team picking them up the whole MLE.

 

[LA King Fan II]

2003-2004 Kings vs Minnesota KG 11-26 with 11 rebounds. 13-29 with a million rebounds in the 2nd meeting than Webber came back. Miller did a great job in the 1st game as I suspected. He went 13-29 the second time with a million rebounds in the 2nd game (iversonesque shot numbers - and rebounds weren't what was being discussed anyhow).

the point of the conversation was Rasho could help Miller a little.

moot point anyhow, it'd make a mediocre front line. cassell, sprewell and Hoiberg were the reasons we lost in the playoffs anyhow.

 

[whozit]

Problem is that the way I understand this amnesty deal, released players still cost the new team picking them up the whole MLE.

Brick, I think your mistaken on the MLE part. As I understand it, it will only cost the team picking the player up what that team and the player agrees on to sign. The full MLE was in context of a player such as Finley that would easily command the entire MLE to acquire. If a player such as Booth accepted an offer for the minimum, that is all it would cost the team acquiring him.

I could be mistaken.

 

[nbrans]

If we don't get Evans or Griffin (it wasn't reported on any tickers or on realgm/hoopshype/insidehoops that he agreed to a deal), yes. Then we'll do it through a trade . I'd be perfectly fine and okay if we don't get Walker, I'd put a bunch of guys ahead of Walker.

Neither Evans nor Griffin would start over Kenny Thomas, although they would help off the bench.

I think your supreme confidence that Thomas won't be starting next year is decidedly misplaced. The only way he WON'T be starting is with a trade. As far as I know, Drew Gooden is the only decent PF currently on the block and he isn't an upgrade over Thomas.

 

[Kings113]

The playoff series. Petrie saw it. If you've read the Bee since then, you'd know he stated quite a few times following the playoffs, that we need more size down low (PF).

I like Thomas and what he does, but I highly doubt Petrie's going to have the undersized (that's his main problem) Thomas as our starting power forward for the whole, or even half of the 2005-06 season. With guys like K-Mart, Duncan, Garnett, Swift, Amare, Brand, Diogu/Murphy, Dirk in the WC. Nothing can convince me Thomas will be our starting PF next season, except of course, the official roster in November, and he is in the starting line-up. If he is, then I'm quite disappointed, and pretty worried about that. Every King fan should be if that happens.

Thomas will indeed, be traded. Petrie isn't a damn idiot.

 

[nbrans]

The playoff series. Petrie saw it. If you've read the Bee since then, you'd know he stated quite a few times following the playoffs, that we need more size down low (PF).

I like Thomas and what he does, but I highly doubt Petrie's going to have the undersized (that's his main problem) Thomas as our starting power forward for the whole, or even half of the 2005-06 season. With guys like K-Mart, Duncan, Garnett, Swift, Amare, Brand, Diogu/Murphy, Dirk in the WC. Nothing can convince me Thomas will be our starting PF next season, except of course, the official roster in November, and he is in the starting line-up. If he is, then I'm quite disappointed, and pretty worried about that. Every King fan should be if that happens.

Thomas will indeed, be traded. Petrie isn't a damn idiot.

I seriously would like to know who you think the Kings are going to get to start ahead of Thomas. Even if the Kings acquire Griffin AND Evans, Kenny Thomas would still be the starting PF. And if Thomas is so undersized and useless in the Western Conference, then what team would want him in a trade?

As far as I can tell, the only two players who might be starting at the PF position next year for the Kings are Kenny Thomas or Antoine Walker, and Walker is looking less likely.

Of course the Kings need "more size" down low. That doesn't necessarily mean that Petrie has lost all faith in Kenny Thomas.

 

[Kings113]

I don't know what team, but I highly doubt he is here next season. Do you want him as our starting PF? Do you think he is here next season? I'd hope not, I think it'd be quite risky and bad if he is. Everyone should be, or they're ignorant and blind. Anyone who saw the Sonics series should recognize about the weakness of Thomas as our starting PF for a full season.

Petrie's already talked many times about size, Thomas being the prime canidate in that area. Where else is it? Certainly not at center or SF. PF is the biggest weakness right now, and Petrie will address it. I predict Walker won't be a King, and I've already talked about him above.

 

[nbrans]

I don't know what team, but I highly doubt he is here next season. Do you want him as our starting PF? Do you think he is here next season? I'd hope not, I think it'd be quite risky and bad if he is. Everyone should be, or they're ignorant and blind. Anyone who saw the Sonics series should recognize about the weakness of Thomas as our starting PF for a full season.

Petrie's already talked many times about size, Thomas being the prime canidate in that area. Where else is it? Certainly not at center or SF. PF is the biggest weakness right now, and Petrie will address it. I predict Walker won't be a King, and I've already talked about him above.

If you don't know who the Kings will get to replace Thomas then you shouldn't make such definitive statements. And call me ignorant and blind, but I saw a guy averaging 15 and 9 for the Kings while playing defense that, while not spectacular, was at least a huge upgrade over Webber (not saying much). Of course it would be great if we could get a star PF, but that ain't happening without trading the core. The Kings don't have to dominate at every single position in order to win games.

 

[Kings113]

If you don't know who the Kings will get to replace Thomas then you shouldn't make such definitive statements. And call me ignorant and blind, but I saw a guy averaging 15 and 9 for the Kings while playing defense that, while not spectacular, was at least a huge upgrade over Webber (not saying much). Of course it would be great if we could get a star PF, but that ain't happening without trading the core. The Kings don't have to dominate at every single position in order to win games.

No one knows who we'll get to replace Thomas, but it will be someone is the point. Petrie's made that clear many times following the playoffs (size down low, being the PF position). That's what this board is for, to discuss/predict/speculate. Which is what I was doing.

So I assume by your talk of his averages w/ the Kings, that you do want him as our starting power foward for next season? I'm quite glad you're not making the moves for this team.

I wasn't talking about Thomas last season, because that was short-term, this would be for a full season. I never talked about a star PF.

PF is probably the most important position in the league.