Power Forwards: Kings vs. the West

True. As long as you keep Thomas, you will have a whiner if you want him to come off the bench. He really has a rather inflated view of himself. He is a nice backup though.
 
At some point here we have to remmeber that EVERY team has a roleplayer in its lineup somewhere. We have scorer, scorer, scorer, scorer...and only Brad really with any inclination to back it off to roleplayer (and there, I would suspect without knowing that we may ask him to do MORE next year, not less). Where's our Christie or even Divac? Where's our Bowen, or Prince or Wallace etc.? We don't need another scorer. We need somebody to do the other things now. And if they can score a little, that's a binus. There are only so many shots to go around, and they are largely accounted for. We now have to figure out some way to keep the OTHER team from scoring, and to get that ball back off the glass.
 
What happened is Kenny's contract, both sides know he can't be coming off the bench. I'd think.

Agreed with BL. We don't need more scorers (Walker), we need guys like Reggie Evans, Maurice Evans, Eddie Griffin, Greg Buckner, Steven Hunter, Francisco Elson, Matt Barnes, Brevin Knight, even Juan Dixon maybe, on our roster. Not saying we get most of them but we'll get 2-4 of them.

All those guys can hustle, board, play defense, are tough, and a few can also do some scoring.
 
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We need to give Skinner and Thomas a chance. They got thrown into a new team, a new system and the west teams after several years of very different.... Same with Corliss. He is a banger, a brute, can rebound a bit, score a bit near the basket and in general create havoc for the other team. Sure a nice vet would be great but they would likely go to the bench and how many of them will do that? Tough call.

Now with Jason Hart we have a tall, defensive minded PG who can backup Bibby quite well. Kevin has been the main ball handler two summers now and does quite well as a 3rd PG. There is just too much new now to really know what we have.

What we don't have is a true PF who bangs, rebounds, defends and scores 5-10 a game. Not many of those left out there. I think you'll see Kenny Thomas starting and Brad at the 5 vs. Brad at the 4 and Skinner at the 5. Skinner may be a really good bench guy to fill in the 4 and 5 depending on matchups. Only time will tell.
 
Hey, what about Andrew DeClerq as back up 4-5? He is all of 6-10 and 255+, is 32 and has been around, last 4 years with Magic tho' he was out virtually all of last year with an injury. And the Magic say he won't be back with them.....
 
Bricklayer said:
At some point here we have to remmeber that EVERY team has a roleplayer in its lineup somewhere. We have scorer, scorer, scorer, scorer...and only Brad really with any inclination to back it off to roleplayer (and there, I would suspect without knowing that we may ask him to do MORE next year, not less). Where's our Christie or even Divac? Where's our Bowen, or Prince or Wallace etc.? We don't need another scorer. We need somebody to do the other things now. And if they can score a little, that's a binus. There are only so many shots to go around, and they are largely accounted for. We now have to figure out some way to keep the OTHER team from scoring, and to get that ball back off the glass.
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This is all great in theory, but can you point to an available player that will fulfill these roles at the power forward position better than Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner? Reggie Evans can only rebound, something that the Kings are now not deficient in, and he's not going to do anything on defense but mindless banging. Plus he's undersized. Eddie Griffin is re-signing with Minnesota, and besides, he's not really tough on the defensive end at hte PF position despite his blocked shots number.

I agree with CruzDude. Unless you want to root for Antoine Walker to come to the Kings it's time to wait and see what Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner and that phantom MLE can do for the Kings.
 
It's not official Eddie Griffin is signing, or has even agreed to a deal.

Reggie Evans is one of the best rebounders in the league, brings overall size, toughness, hustle, and plays dirty. I dig it. I'm sure he could work on his offense with the Kings staff too, I bet he's doing that over the summer anyways.

Kenny Thomas, will not be our starting PF next season. Petrie saw the Sonics series, and we can't have a 6'7" 245 pound PF. I like Thomas, but it's quite unlikely he's here next season. He's one of our top pieces for a trade, and won't come off the bench because he isn't favorable to that, and his contract alone shys away from it.
 
Kings113 said:
It's not official Eddie Griffin is signing, or has even agreed to a deal.

Reggie Evans is one of the best rebounders in the league, brings overall size, toughness, hustle, and plays dirty. I dig it. I'm sure he could work on his offense with the Kings staff too, I bet he's doing that over the summer anyways.

Kenny Thomas, will not be our starting PF next season. Petrie saw the Sonics series, and we can't have a 6'7" 245 pound PF. I like Thomas, but it's quite unlikely he's here next season. He's one of our top pieces for a trade, and won't come off the bench because he isn't favorable to that, and his contract alone shys away from it.
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Reggie Evans doesn't bring any more size than Kenny Thomas. He's 6'8", 245. Thomas is 6'7", 245. I don't think that one inch is worth all that much on the defensive end.

And I don't really see Kenny Thomas being traded unless the Kings sign Antoine Walker. Who are we going to package with him to get a better PF?

Also, Kenny Thomas wasn't great in the Sonics' series, but he wasn't terrible either. I'd argue that the Kings were killed more inside by not having a center. Brad Miller was coming off an injury, Skinner and Ostertag were nowhere to be found.
 
When is this moratorium over. I won't talk about anything else until Bonzi and Hart are officially Kings. Then Ill talk about the PF spot.
 
Pape Sow/6-10/ 250lbs/24yrs old
(listed incorrectly in the FA tracking thread as a SF)

Very raw, but has good size, is athletic and will hustle. Toronto fans like him, but he could be had for cheap. He's restricted so Toronto can match, but they also have other players to sign, and they have only a mid-level (also have a glut of forwards). Could be an under the radar pick-up, but he'd be an anti Petrie/Adelman player. His primary use would be to match up with bigger players on the defensive end.
 
nbrans said:
Reggie Evans doesn't bring any more size than Kenny Thomas. He's 6'8", 245. Thomas is 6'7", 245. I don't think that one inch is worth all that much on the defensive end.

And I don't really see Kenny Thomas being traded unless the Kings sign Antoine Walker. Who are we going to package with him to get a better PF?

Also, Kenny Thomas wasn't great in the Sonics' series, but he wasn't terrible either. I'd argue that the Kings were killed more inside by not having a center. Brad Miller was coming off an injury, Skinner and Ostertag were nowhere to be found.
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Then what are we gonna do, have Thomas starting? I highly doubt it. He won't come off the bench either, unless he changes his mind, I think (but how can the Kings with that contract) he'll be used in a trade some how. I don't think we'll sign Walker, the Knicks or Heat will get him. Also, Walker doesn't quite address what the Kings need. I'm skeptical about the guy in a few areas, but he does have strong points.

I'd put Evans ahead of Thomas and Walker.
 
A west coast deal with a restriced FA (Evans) seems highly unlikely. And he is virtually the same size as Thomas and Kenny brings a bunch more. I go back to DeClerq. Whats wrong with him as a backup. Won't set the world on fire (then no one else 6-11 and 255 who is AVAILABLE will either) but is a serviceable 4-5 backup. Won't happen tho'.
 
nbrans said:
This is all great in theory, but can you point to an available player that will fulfill these roles at the power forward position better than Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner? Reggie Evans can only rebound, something that the Kings are now not deficient in, and he's not going to do anything on defense but mindless banging. Plus he's undersized. Eddie Griffin is re-signing with Minnesota, and besides, he's not really tough on the defensive end at hte PF position despite his blocked shots number.

I agree with CruzDude. Unless you want to root for Antoine Walker to come to the Kings it's time to wait and see what Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner and that phantom MLE can do for the Kings.
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Are you nuts? Do you realize that we are talking about the Kings here? Have you even seen them play? If so, what makes you possibly think that we aren't deficient in rebounding? Every single game last year, the other team could just camp under the basket and scoop up every rebound and get 2 or 3 second chance opporunities per trip. There is no way with the amount of offensive rebounds we gave up that we could hold teams to low scores. We are an absolutely horrid rebounding team, and Thomas or Skinner may get some rebounds, but we need a true intimidating presence down below to get our rebounds, not people that get rebounds from being in the general vicinity of where the ball lands.
 
~R. Evans~:

Ranks #12 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(9.3)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(254.0)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(3.2)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(482.0)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(6.1)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(736.0)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(6.5)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(12.3)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(18.8)
 
Kings113 said:
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(6.5)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(12.3)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(18.8)
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Those last three tell the story. Best in the league last year.

Thing is, we've never had a player even remotely similar to Reggie Evans in the modern Sacto era. Maybe its about time.

Still, as I've been saying, would not want that to be the only pickup, even if we could get him. He's a real force on the boards, but I much prefer him in a plattoon situtaion or as the first big off the bench than I do as a 35mpg full time starter. Like him as a jumpstarter and tonesetter ala (in 100% different fashion) Bobby.
 
captain bill said:
Are you nuts? Do you realize that we are talking about the Kings here? Have you even seen them play? If so, what makes you possibly think that we aren't deficient in rebounding? Every single game last year, the other team could just camp under the basket and scoop up every rebound and get 2 or 3 second chance opporunities per trip. There is no way with the amount of offensive rebounds we gave up that we could hold teams to low scores. We are an absolutely horrid rebounding team, and Thomas or Skinner may get some rebounds, but we need a true intimidating presence down below to get our rebounds, not people that get rebounds from being in the general vicinity of where the ball lands.
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Are YOU nuts? Did you happen to notice that the Kings acquired new players and that they did a pretty good job rebounding the ball? That you can't judge the current roster by the Chris Webber team that dominated the stats? Did you even notice that Chris Webber was traded?

Brad Miller, Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner are good reboudners. This isn't the Webber, Miller, Songaila rotation that was used most of the season.

It's one thing to want to add rebounding, quite another to suggest that the argument can't be made that the Kings are currently a solid rebounding team.

Give me a break, bill. If you're going to be so high and mighty you'd better have better arguments to back yourself up.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Still, as I've been saying, would not want that to be the only pickup, even if we could get him. He's a real force on the boards, but I much prefer him in a plattoon situtaion or as the first big off the bench than I do as a 35mpg full time starter. Like him as a jumpstarter and tonesetter ala (in 100% different fashion) Bobby.
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I agree with you, Bricklayer. Great off the bench for 15-20 minutes a game to energize and get some rebounds. Not a starter.
 
captain bill said:
If so, what makes you possibly think that we aren't deficient in rebounding? Every single game last year, the other team could just camp under the basket and scoop up every rebound and get 2 or 3 second chance opporunities per trip. There is no way with the amount of offensive rebounds we gave up that we could hold teams to low scores. We are an absolutely horrid rebounding team, and Thomas or Skinner may get some rebounds, but we need a true intimidating presence down below to get our rebounds, not people that get rebounds from being in the general vicinity of where the ball lands.
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I really have to agree with you.

That's why I've said - only partially kidding - that we should sign Denis Rodman. We desperately need someone to do nothing more than grab rebounds. If we could reduce the other team's second chance points by even 25%, we'd be in very good shape.

Since Rodman is too old, and well, just too weird, I think Reggie Evans would be an excellent addition to the roster.
 
VF21 said:
I really have to agree with you.

That's why I've said - only partially kidding - that we should sign Denis Rodman. We desperately need someone to do nothing more than grab rebounds. If we could reduce the other team's second chance points by even 25%, we'd be in very good shape.

Since Rodman is too old, and well, just too weird, I think Reggie Evans would be an excellent addition to the roster.
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Exactly. Evans is similar to Rodman, and Evans brings what the Kings really need, and no, not just great rebounding.
 
Bricklayer said:
Those last three tell the story. Best in the league last year.

Thing is, we've never had a player even remotely similar to Reggie Evans in the modern Sacto era. Maybe its about time.

Still, as I've been saying, would not want that to be the only pickup, even if we could get him. He's a real force on the boards, but I much prefer him in a plattoon situtaion or as the first big off the bench than I do as a 35mpg full time starter. Like him as a jumpstarter and tonesetter ala (in 100% different fashion) Bobby.
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That and Reggie can't realistically become a 35 mpg player. He is way too foul prone.
 
As for rebounding, Skinner, Thomas, and Brad are very good rebounders. They just need to get used to one another on the floor and work on the mechanics of boxing out. Last season there were a lot of times that Thomas, Skinner, etc. would look around thinking somebody else was going to scoop up the board.
 
nbrans said:
Are YOU nuts? Did you happen to notice that the Kings acquired new players and that they did a pretty good job rebounding the ball? That you can't judge the current roster by the Chris Webber team that dominated the stats? Did you even notice that Chris Webber was traded?

Brad Miller, Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner are good reboudners. This isn't the Webber, Miller, Songaila rotation that was used most of the season.

It's one thing to want to add rebounding, quite another to suggest that the argument can't be made that the Kings are currently a solid rebounding team.

Give me a break, bill. If you're going to be so high and mighty you'd better have better arguments to back yourself up.
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Dude what are you talking about? They got absolutely abused on the boards all season and the reb differential only got worse after the trade(the one stat I tracked religiously). The Webber, Miller, Songalia lineup had better numbers(barely) than the current rotation, they sucked all year and haven't gotten one bit better. The new guys are WAY undersized and get pushed around inside every game. That was PAINFUL to watch against Seattle, it was like a bad joke... we couldn't get a defensive rebound in that series to save our lives! We have to make a move or we will see more of the same.
 
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Eddie Griffin should be gotten, he'd my first choice, then Evans. No, EG is not signed yet, nor have I seen it on any tickers or on RealGM where it said he's agreed to a deal officially.
 
KP said:
Dude what are you talking about? They got absolutely abused on the boards all season and the reb differential only got worse after the trade(the one stat I tracked religiously). The Webber, Miller, Songalia lineup had better numbers(barely) than the current rotation, they sucked all year and haven't gotten one bit better. The new guys are WAY undersized and get pushed around inside every game. That was PAINFUL to watch against Seattle, it was like a bad joke... we couldn't get a defensive rebound in that series to save our lives! We have to make a move or we will see more of the same.
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The current roster never played together in the regular season. Miller was injured right after the trade, so of course the rebounding numbers were bad, the Kings didn't really have a backup center. And I don't think the playoffs were an accurate look with Miller coming off an injury and Skinner either injured or comatose.

I'll say it again, Reggie Evans is just as undersized as Kenny Thomas. Sure, Evans is a good rebounder, I'm just saying that the Kings are much more deficient in interior defense and shotblocking. Evans doesn't provide defense or shotblocking. Why not make the priority areas that the Kings are weak? And despite the skewed statistics and everyone's howls, the Kings aren't a terrible rebounding team anymore.
 
VF21 said:
I really have to agree with you.

That's why I've said - only partially kidding - that we should sign Denis Rodman. We desperately need someone to do nothing more than grab rebounds. If we could reduce the other team's second chance points by even 25%, we'd be in very good shape.

Since Rodman is too old, and well, just too weird, I think Reggie Evans would be an excellent addition to the roster.
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See, I think Rodman and Evans is a false comparison. Yes, the rebounding numbers were similar and they both had a similar energizing effect. But Rodman played fantastic interior defense and even though he didn't score much he was a great facilitator on offense. Evans doesn't bring either of those. I can't remember where I saw the quote, but I read somewhere that he understood the triangle offense after one training camp than Karl Malone did after an entire season.

Evans would be a good addition, lord knows rebounding is a great asset to add to the team. But traditionally rebounding specialists help out on defense and offense as well, and Evans doesn't do that.
 
nbrans said:
The current roster never played together in the regular season. Miller was injured right after the trade, so of course the rebounding numbers were bad, the Kings didn't really have a backup center. And I don't think the playoffs were an accurate look with Miller coming off an injury and Skinner either injured or comatose.

I'll say it again, Reggie Evans is just as undersized as Kenny Thomas. Sure, Evans is a good rebounder, I'm just saying that the Kings are much more deficient in interior defense and shotblocking. Evans doesn't provide defense or shotblocking. Why not make the priority areas that the Kings are weak? And despite the skewed statistics and everyone's howls, the Kings aren't a terrible rebounding team anymore.
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Yes, those damn skewed stats...that were actually put up over the course of the season. Such distortion! Just awful.

Look pretty solid compared to a could've/would've/I-sure-do-hope-they-are-gonna speculative world where teams get killed on the boards night in and night out but damnit, are good rebounding teams nonetheless.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Yes, those damn skewed stats...that were actually put up over the course of the season. Such distortion! Just awful.

Look pretty solid compared to a could've/would've/I-sure-do-hope-they-are-gonna speculative world where teams get killed on the boards night in and night out but damnit, are good rebounding teams nonetheless.
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Um, last time I checked Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner and Brad Miller played two games together in the regular season. So who's distorting things by using regular season stats? All the sarcasm in the world can't disguise the fact that rebounding stats from the regular season aren't worth all that much if you want to judge this current roster when healthy.

I don't think it's terribly speculative to say that a Miller, Thomas, Skinner frontline is a better rebounding team than Miller, hobbled knee Webber, Songaila, despite all your best sniffs and sneers.
 
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