Potential SF available...

[Showtime]

GP said the Salmons trade was because he saw an opportunity to significantly improve that position, which was an area of weakness. Since many people aren't high on the cost of getting such a player, I wanted to run down the decent free agent SF's.

Troy Murphy - combo forward, can shoot from deep and rebound well.

Rasual Butler - veteran defensive minded SF who can shoot from deep. Pretty good size and length at this position.

Caron Butler - solid overall former all-star who, after coming off injury and in this climate, would probably be within grasp with similar money that Salmons is making. With a lower cap in the new CBA, a guy like Butler isn't going to get 10 mil a year.

Wilson Chandler - Restricted FA from Denver, came over from the Knicks. Got potential there.

Tay Prince - No explanation needed. Great defender and team-first guy, veteran leader, was recently on Team USA.

Al Thornton - young and talented, but needs to mature. Still, very talented.

Mike Dunleavy - another overall solid forward who can shoot.

Shane Battier - same as Prince. No explanation needed.

Jason Richardson - provides shooting and veteran presence, but does it at far less than 8 mil.

Thaddeus Young - RFA, so philly might try to keep him, but he's another young talent.

Grant Hill - same as Battier. Good defender, character leader, veteran.

AK47 - only guy on this list, other than butler, who might cost more than Salmons.

I didn't list every single SF, but guys that were not scrubs, and were within reach of the kings. Most are UFA's, but some are RFA's. If the Kings were serious about adding a SF, GP didn't do a good job, because from this market and the landscape of a lower cap in the new CBA (which means fewer teams looking to add due to their current lack of cap space, along with lower contract prices on the free agent market), the pick up of Salmons with his deal at his age for Beno is a huge, huge, huge mistake. They could have gotten not only a capable player cheaper, but even if you wanted to spend money, you could get a far better deal.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Most of those guys are no better than Salmons. Another thing people seem to be ignoring, is that if you sign one of those guys in free agency, you've still got Beno's contract too. Are you better off paying Salmons 8 million or paying about 12-16 million to Beno and whoever you sign as a FA small forward?

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

What I find extremely wierd is that Amick came out a few hours before the draft and said that the Kings arent interested in Iguodala because he "isnt what they are looking for" at that position.

Iguodala is very similar to Salmons. Aside from the fact that Iguodala is slightly better at just about everything, and younger, and a excellent team player. They both play defense, both handle the ball welll. Salmons has a better shot, but thats about it.

 

[Showtime]

Most of those guys are no better than Salmons.

There's a difference between talent, and the right fit. Some of these players may not have his talent, but they would be a better fit. Salmons isn't a good role player, because he's already proven to be inconsistent when coming off the bench or not getting enough touches. And regards to value, some are far superior of a choice. A guy like Rasual Butler who could probably be signed for less than 3 mil a year is a better value for what the team needs at that position than over twice that amount for Salmons.

Another think people seem to be ignoring, is that if you sign one of those guys in free agency, you've still got Beno's contract too. Are you better off paying Salmons 8 million or paying about 12-16 million to Beno and whoever you sign as a FA small forward?

That's not a point in your favor, it's a point against it. Here's why: the Kings without Beno have a massive gap at the point (one which they might have to spend more money to reinforce). Evans split minutes with Beno (effectively I might add), because he was the only one who can run an offense consistently, and when Evans was hurt, they had nobody else to run point and be a true pass-first guy. Jimmer has yet to prove he can do that, and Evans has yet to prove he can do that full-time, and Thornton has already proved he can't do that when they tried that with the hornets. The point people like you aren't looking at is that whatever addition Salmons makes to the SF position isn't significant enough to compensate the loss of what Beno brings to the point in worst case scenarios. If Jimmer can't deliver in that regard, they may have to go out and buy a veteran PG, which would cost more money.

With the hole at the wing last season, the Kings were able to compensate with Garcia and Evans playing some 3 (after the MT deal). They were pretty effective with the Evans/MT/Garcia backcourt, and the Beno/MT/Evans backcourt. There are ways to compensate. With the point situation, if Jimmer doesn't step up and prove he can handle that, there is no way to compensate without adding somebody. There was a way for the kings to have a capable SF with the current roster. There isn't that same potential at the point if Jimmer doesn't produce, especially if they want to pair him and Evans on the court at the same time. That's why the Salmons addition wasn't as desperate of a situation to justify that move.

The team could have gotten some of these options for around John's price, plus beno's deal, and been in a far better situation regards to style fit and value. The only way this deal works out is if Jimmer and Evans fill out the point, but if they plan on playing them together and having Jimmer's shooting play against Evan's driving, then they still have a hole off the bench that would need to be filled at the point position. So you would be paying Salmons his contract, plus a veteran backup PG for a few mil.

 

[jcwkings]

GP said the Salmons trade was because he saw an opportunity to significantly improve that position, which was an area of weakness. Since many people aren't high on the cost of getting such a player, I wanted to run down the decent free agent SF's.

Troy Murphy - combo forward, can shoot from deep and rebound well.not a sf, cant defend the wings

Rasual Butler - veteran defensive minded SF who can shoot from deep. Pretty good size and length at this position. decent defender, streaky shooter(i saw him alot with the clippers, when he is cold he cant buy a basket

Caron Butler - solid overall former all-star who, after coming off injury and in this climate, would probably be within grasp with similar money that Salmons is making. With a lower cap in the new CBA, a guy like Butler isn't going to get 10 mil a year.injury prone, would never sign here, hes a big market guy that wants to win now

Wilson Chandler - Restricted FA from Denver, came over from the Knicks. Got potential there. this would be a good fit, but i think denver will keep him

Tay Prince - No explanation needed. Great defender and team-first guy, veteran leader, was recently on Team USA.nice fit as well, also would never sign here, win now player.

Al Thornton - young and talented, but needs to mature. Still, very talented.this guys sucks, saw him alot with the clippers, if you think salmons is a black hole, this guy takes it to another level, not mature, no work ethic from what i remeber

Mike Dunleavy - another overall solid forward who can shoot. good shooter, terrible defender, which we need most from that position to free up tyreke

Shane Battier - same as Prince. No explanation needed.ideal player to have but like prince, he seems like a win now guy who knows his time is running out

Jason Richardson - provides shooting and veteran presence, but does it at far less than 8 mil.nothing bad to say here, he would cost us as much as salmons though, maybe more

Thaddeus Young - RFA, so philly might try to keep him, but he's another young talent.not a petrie player, but does do some things nice

Grant Hill - same as Battier. Good defender, character leader, veteran.hes staying in phoenix or winning a title

AK47 - only guy on this list, other than butler, who might cost more than Salmons.like you said will cost us alot

I didn't list every single SF, but guys that were not scrubs, and were within reach of the kings. Most are UFA's, but some are RFA's. If the Kings were serious about adding a SF, GP didn't do a good job, because from this market and the landscape of a lower cap in the new CBA (which means fewer teams looking to add due to their current lack of cap space, along with lower contract prices on the free agent market), the pick up of Salmons with his deal at his age for Beno is a huge, huge, huge mistake. They could have gotten not only a capable player cheaper, but even if you wanted to spend money, you could get a far better deal.

so the only guys i would take from your list over salmons are prince, battier and ak47, but there pretty much no chance of us landing them.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

There's a difference between talent, and the right fit. Some of these players may not have his talent, but they would be a better fit. Salmons isn't a good role player, because he's already proven to be inconsistent when coming off the bench or not getting enough touches. And regards to value, some are far superior of a choice. A guy like Rasual Butler who could probably be signed for less than 3 mil a year is a better value for what the team needs at that position than over twice that amount for Salmons.



That's not a point in your favor, it's a point against it. Here's why: the Kings without Beno have a massive gap at the point (one which they might have to spend more money to reinforce). Evans split minutes with Beno (effectively I might add), because he was the only one who can run an offense consistently, and when Evans was hurt, they had nobody else to run point and be a true pass-first guy. Jimmer has yet to prove he can do that, and Evans has yet to prove he can do that full-time, and Thornton has already proved he can't do that when they tried that with the hornets. The point people like you aren't looking at is that whatever addition Salmons makes to the SF position isn't significant enough to compensate the loss of what Beno brings to the point in worst case scenarios. If Jimmer can't deliver in that regard, they may have to go out and buy a veteran PG, which would cost more money.

With the hole at the wing last season, the Kings were able to compensate with Garcia and Evans playing some 3 (after the MT deal). They were pretty effective with the Evans/MT/Garcia backcourt, and the Beno/MT/Evans backcourt. There are ways to compensate. With the point situation, if Jimmer doesn't step up and prove he can handle that, there is no way to compensate without adding somebody. There was a way for the kings to have a capable SF with the current roster. There isn't that same potential at the point if Jimmer doesn't produce, especially if they want to pair him and Evans on the court at the same time. That's why the Salmons addition wasn't as desperate of a situation to justify that move.

The team could have gotten some of these options for around John's price, plus beno's deal, and been in a far better situation regards to style fit and value. The only way this deal works out is if Jimmer and Evans fill out the point, but if they plan on playing them together and having Jimmer's shooting play against Evan's driving, then they still have a hole off the bench that would need to be filled at the point position. So you would be paying Salmons his contract, plus a veteran backup PG for a few mil.

Whether it works in your favor or mine remains to be seen. If Tyreke and Jimmer work out as the point guards of the Kings or if the Kings end up signing a PG who is better than Beno, it works in my favor. If Jimmer and Tyreke don't work out or if they have to spend money on a PG that's no better than Beno, it works in your favor. I don't know how it will turn out but i do know that you and every other Kings fan should be hoping it turns out in my favor.

 

[Section 101]

You left out the best one and he's already on the team. Tyreke. An before another person says he can't play SF. He has the same standing reach as Salmons and is 13 lbs heavier. So in fact, he is a better fit at SF than Salmons.

 

[Showtime]

so the only guys i would take from your list over salmons are prince, battier and ak47, but there pretty much no chance of us landing them.

-Murphy was a combo forward in Indy. He's not a stiff, and can play the 3.

-Butler doesn't have to buy a basket. The team doesn't need more scoring, they just need somebody more consistent than Casspi and Donte.

-Caron Butler is going to get a big contract from which contender? Oh right, no contender has the cap space, so that would mean the highest bidder, and again, lower caps mean lesser contract numbers, which would put Butler within reach, especially if you are going to spend 8 mil a year anyway. 9 or 10 then wouldn't be a stretch.

-Regarding Al Thornton, what are you expecting from John here? He's going to look to score every time he touches it, only Thornton is younger, more athletic, and comes cheaper.

-Battier/Prince/Hill. Where are these contenders that can afford them? Not only would they have to take massive paycuts to go to contenders (most don't have any space btw), but they also would have diminished roles. Lakers, Mavs, Thunder, Celtics, Bulls, etc are not in the market for aging SF's, and even if they were, most won't be able to afford it with a lower cap next year. Memphis is the only one that will probably be keeping their vet.

Again, judging from your comments, you either think that contenders have more cap space then they actually do, or that money doesn't talk, which it does. If they wanted to spend money, there are far better fits, and if not, there were players who could improve the 3 without spending that much money. It's not about being better then salmons, it's about the overall team being better. Beno with a solid SF makes a better kings team than an unstable point position with an overpaid SF logjam.

 

[Showtime]

You left out the best one and he's already on the team. Tyreke. An before another person says he can't play SF. He has the same standing reach as Salmons and is 13 lbs heavier. So in fact, he is a better fit at SF than Salmons.

I have said Evans should play more 3 for a while, because if he can blow by PG's, he should be able to blow by SF's. Problem is, his lack of jumpshot kills this option. If he had even an average jumper, he could destroy SF's all day with pull-ups and 3's, forcing them to play him out further. But because everybody plays his dribble drive because he can't shoot, then it doesn't matter. If he can't drive, he will either draw the charge, or kick out to a guy who can shoot. But this has worked with 3 guard lineups the kings used at the end of last season. They used combinations of beno/mt/evans/garcia in a 3 guard backcourt, and it worked well. No reason they couldn't have done that again to hide the SF deficiency.

 

[sidney]

Perhaps as important as who might work here as SF is a strategy for getting rid of at least two of our current SFs. We have 5 now? We need to drop 2 before adding another.

Maybe we can dangle Omri if he's attached to Garcia as a package to a team that has a lot of interest. If those two were gone I'd be a lot more comfortable with a Salmons / Battier or Salmons / AK duo with Greene and Honeycutt backing them up

 

[Showtime]

Whether it works in your favor or mine remains to be seen.

No, it doesn't. What you aren't understanding is that the kings could compensate for deficiencies at the 3 with how the team was constructed. They can't do that kind of adjustment if Jimmer doesn't produce. That means that there wasn't such a desperate need at the SF position that would make this a good deal.

If Tyreke and Jimmer work out as the point guards of the Kings or if the Kings end up signing a PG who is better than Beno, it works in my favor.

There is no way they would sign a PG better than Beno, especially if he's going to be a backup. Your argument was value, and you aren't winning it. Do you even pay attention to who is available in the league outside sacramento?

If Jimmer and Tyreke don't work out or if they have to spend money on a PG that's no better than Beno, it works in your favor. I don't know how it will turn out but i do know that you and every other Kings fan should be hoping it turns out in my favor.

I know that the Kings could manage with their SF problem the way they were. I know they didn't need to make trades or take on salary in order to manage that issue. I do NOT know if they have the pieces that will fill a void that they created. They went from having a little issue to potentially a big issue. It was an unnecessary thing to do, especially considering the market.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

No, it doesn't. What you aren't understanding is that the kings could compensate for deficiencies at the 3 with how the team was constructed. They can't do that kind of adjustment if Jimmer doesn't produce. That means that there wasn't such a desperate need at the SF position that would make this a good deal.

What you aren’t understanding is that obviously the Kings don’t see Tyreke as a 3. If it were as simple as move Tyreke to the three and they thought that would work, I’m pretty sure they would have just done that.

There is no way they would sign a PG better than Beno, especially if he's going to be a backup. Your argument was value, and you aren't winning it. Do you even pay attention to who is available in the league outside sacramento?

Well there’s Jamal Crawford, most would agree he’s better. You’re right there aren’t really any Pgs out there this year beyond that. That doesn’t change the first half of what I said, though.

 

[Kingster]

What do people rate the odds are that Jimmer plays better at the point than Beno did last year? Just curious. I'd rate that at about a 1 in 10 chance, at best. And even with a year under his belt, I'd still rate it at 1 in 10. A general manager who bases his decision-making on "hope" isn't doing his job.

 

[Kingster]

GP said the Salmons trade was because he saw an opportunity to significantly improve that position, which was an area of weakness. Since many people aren't high on the cost of getting such a player, I wanted to run down the decent free agent SF's.

Troy Murphy - combo forward, can shoot from deep and rebound well.

Rasual Butler - veteran defensive minded SF who can shoot from deep. Pretty good size and length at this position.

Caron Butler - solid overall former all-star who, after coming off injury and in this climate, would probably be within grasp with similar money that Salmons is making. With a lower cap in the new CBA, a guy like Butler isn't going to get 10 mil a year.

Wilson Chandler - Restricted FA from Denver, came over from the Knicks. Got potential there.

Tay Prince - No explanation needed. Great defender and team-first guy, veteran leader, was recently on Team USA.

Al Thornton - young and talented, but needs to mature. Still, very talented.

Mike Dunleavy - another overall solid forward who can shoot.

Shane Battier - same as Prince. No explanation needed.

Jason Richardson - provides shooting and veteran presence, but does it at far less than 8 mil.

Thaddeus Young - RFA, so philly might try to keep him, but he's another young talent.

Grant Hill - same as Battier. Good defender, character leader, veteran.

AK47 - only guy on this list, other than butler, who might cost more than Salmons.

I didn't list every single SF, but guys that were not scrubs, and were within reach of the kings. Most are UFA's, but some are RFA's. If the Kings were serious about adding a SF, GP didn't do a good job, because from this market and the landscape of a lower cap in the new CBA (which means fewer teams looking to add due to their current lack of cap space, along with lower contract prices on the free agent market), the pick up of Salmons with his deal at his age for Beno is a huge, huge, huge mistake. They could have gotten not only a capable player cheaper, but even if you wanted to spend money, you could get a far better deal.

Nice analysis. And what we don't know is how many 3s that were "available" that weren't FAs. Salmons was obviously one of those non-FA "available" ones. The universe of "available" 3s could have been considerably larger.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

What do people rate the odds are that Jimmer plays better at the point than Beno did last year? Just curious. I'd rate that at about a 1 in 10 chance, at best. And even with a year under his belt, I'd still rate it at 1 in 10. A general manager who bases his decision-making on "hope" isn't doing his job.

I'm much more concerned with how he plays overall and how much impact that has on the team winning than with how he plays the point.

 

[Glenn]

What do people rate the odds are that Jimmer plays better at the point than Beno did last year? Just curious. I'd rate that at about a 1 in 10 chance, at best. And even with a year under his belt, I'd still rate it at 1 in 10. A general manager who bases his decision-making on "hope" isn't doing his job.

I think Jimmer will bring more to the Kings than Beno does whether it is this year or two years from now. As if you care.

 

[Kingster]

I'm much more concerned with how he plays overall and how much impact that has on the team winning than with how he plays the point.

I'm confused. Do you think he's going to play a position other than pg?

 

[Showtime]

What you aren’t understanding is that obviously the Kings don’t see Tyreke as a 3. If it were as simple as move Tyreke to the three and they thought that would work, I’m pretty sure they would have just done that.

It's not that simple. It isn't about just moving Evans over, it was about implementing an effective guard rotation with the versatile players they already had. They were able to do that with the 4 main guards they had in combination that nullified the deficiency at SF while maintaining a talent advantage that produced results. They essentially killed that ability by getting a SF, while at the same time creating a liability at the point. THEY DIDN'T NEED TO DO THIS, and that's the point. They created a problem by attempting to solve another (and IMO, didn't solve it, because I don't think Salmons will prove to be what they are looking for at that price level).

Well there’s Jamal Crawford, most would agree he’s better. You’re right there aren’t really any Pgs out there this year beyond that. That doesn’t change the first half of what I said, though.

It doesn't change the facts. The team managed to compensate for their issues, and now they put themselves in a place where they can't without changing the team and spending more money.

There isn't any argument anybody has made so far that this has actually improved the team.

Also, if they expect Jimmer to play off of Evans, who backs them up? Pooh? Evans can't split point duties if he and Jimmer are on the court at the same time.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I'm confused. Do you think he's going to play a position other than pg?

He's probably going to play some 1 and 2.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

It's not that simple. It isn't about just moving Evans over, it was about implementing an effective guard rotation with the versatile players they already had. They were able to do that with the 4 main guards they had in combination that nullified the deficiency at SF while maintaining a talent advantage that produced results. They essentially killed that ability by getting a SF, while at the same time creating a liability at the point. THEY DIDN'T NEED TO DO THIS, and that's the point. They created a problem by attempting to solve another (and IMO, didn't solve it, because I don't think Salmons will prove to be what they are looking for at that price level).



It doesn't change the facts. The team managed to compensate for their issues, and now they put themselves in a place where they can't without changing the team and spending more money.

There isn't any argument anybody has made so far that this has actually improved the team.

Also, if they expect Jimmer to play off of Evans, who backs them up? Pooh? Evans can't split point duties if he and Jimmer are on the court at the same time.

No worthwhile argument for whether it hurt or helped the team can be made. It's all just speculation at this point. Let me ask you this, who would you have drafted and what would you have done about the SF position?

 

[bajaden]

What I find extremely wierd is that Amick came out a few hours before the draft and said that the Kings arent interested in Iguodala because he "isnt what they are looking for" at that position.

Iguodala is very similar to Salmons. Aside from the fact that Iguodala is slightly better at just about everything, and younger, and a excellent team player. They both play defense, both handle the ball welll. Salmons has a better shot, but thats about it.

I think the better shot part is the reason. I think Petrie, rightly or wrongly about Salmons, is trying to put players around Evans that can shoot the rock. And in the case of SF, defend as well.

 

[Tyndel]

Beno could run an offense most of the time when he was on the floor but he lacked any sort of defense. Well the offense we are going to run is going to run through cousins alot of the time and Tyreke most of the rest we don't need another playmaker on the court just to call him a point. If we have outside shooters to keep the doubles honest then that opens more inside out with Cousins. Jimmer can shoot MT can shoot and so on. I don't see a problem with a guard rotation of Reke Marcus with Jimmer and someone else off the bench (Isiah?, Cisco?). If we run the plays from the sideline like a young team should then having a pure point putting up 10 apg is much less of a requirement when you have people who can make plays from other positions.

I see us using Jimmer of the Bench bringing the ball up starting the plays we call and shooting from outside and his defense can't be much worse then Beno's 15-20 min tops.

 

[ElRey]

As I'm reading about all this Salmon hate and the missed potential of signing a better SF, I'm thinking to myself: Why do we need an expensive stud SF anyway? We already have 3 explosive scorers in Evans, Thornton, and Cousins. We really just need a SF that can defend and hit opens shots. We don't need our SF to create. Yes Salmons has a history of dominating the ball, but if we could just get him to focus on defending the other team's best backcourt player and hitting those open shots, then he could be very good for this team. If Salmons becomes our designated defender, then this trade will work out nicely. Salmons is a little older, so I think he'll likely be more open to a more designated role.

 

[mac]

As I'm reading about all this Salmon hate and the missed potential of signing a better SF, I'm thinking to myself: Why do we need an expensive stud SF anyway? We already have 3 explosive scorers in Evans, Thornton, and Cousins. We really just need a SF that can defend and hit opens shots. We don't need our SF to create. Yes Salmons has a history of dominating the ball, but if we could just get him to focus on defending the other team's best backcourt player and hitting those open shots, then he could be very good for this team. If Salmons becomes our designated defender, then this trade will work out nicely. Salmons is a little older, so I think he'll likely be more open to a more designated role.

Yeah, problem is everyone is just questioning the 'If'. If Salmons could guarantee the whole kings fanbase that he wasn't going to hog the ball, was going to settle into a role-playing role and focus on defense and rebounding I don't think people would be as pissed off. The question is, can he?

And btw, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy?? EWWWWWWWW hell no. How are they "upgrades" to Donte and Omri???

 

[ElRey]

Yeah, problem is everyone is just questioning the 'If'. If Salmons could guarantee the whole kings fanbase that he wasn't going to hog the ball, was going to settle into a role-playing role and focus on defense and rebounding I don't think people would be as pissed off. The question is, can he?

And btw, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy?? EWWWWWWWW hell no. How are they "upgrades" to Donte and Omri???

Yep that big IF determines the success of this trade. We'll see. Kings fans should just talk up Salmons as the defender all year long so it gets in his head

 

[rainmaker]

I'd like to see us move a sf before getting another. But that's just me.

 

[Bricklayer]

Most of the guys on that list are just random NBA bodies with skills we don't need. The focus now, if we are/were going to supplement Salmons, would be on adding one of the defensive roleplayers. If all of the shots on the team were accounted for before the trade, and they were, they most certainly are now. There is potentially room for a Battier. None at all for a JRich.

 

[swisshh]

What I find extremely wierd is that Amick came out a few hours before the draft and said that the Kings arent interested in Iguodala because he "isnt what they are looking for" at that position.

Iguodala is very similar to Salmons. Aside from the fact that Iguodala is slightly better at just about everything, and younger, and a excellent team player. They both play defense, both handle the ball welll. Salmons has a better shot, but thats about it.

Yeah, that makes little sense. I can only assume that Salmons is a Petrie guy and he overvalues his guys.

I wonder if that report was more BS from the Front Office.

I'd rather have a character guy like Battier or Prince, or a guy like AK who is ready to play his role.

 

[pshn80]

I know this is a small forward thread but the argument put forth above on why we don't need another distributor is scary. Cousins and Evans will handle? Cousins on distributing is equally outstanding and oooops. Evan is wait, wait, wait and GO. And then ooops. Thankfully, it works a lot of the time but, in my books, its not the kind success is built on. Let's all drink to my being wrong.

 

[ParniValjak]

Yeah, that makes little sense. I can only assume that Salmons is a Petrie guy and he overvalues his guys.

I wonder if that report was more BS from the Front Office.

I'd rather have a character guy like Battier or Prince, or a guy like AK who is ready to play his role.

I wanted Igoudala but no one can actually say with a straight face that AI is as good a shooter as Salmons! We have been pretty specific in what we wanted out of SF. A very good defender who can shoot the 3 and handle the ball. AI is a LOT LOT better player but he brings 2 of the things we were after.

Oh and Prince a character guy?! Have you not followed the situation in Detroit this past season?!