Hard fought game with both teams playing hard. That 3rd quarter was a total disaster. Couldn't help but think that maybe it would've been better if DT was not thrown out. It seemed as if her ejection caused PHX to get fired up and at the same time caused us to lose our focus. We kinda realized that in the end but by then they had the momentum and time was running out.
Post your thoughts: SAC/PHX 5/29
- Thread starter mdme
- Start date
Shorty_Balla14
Prospect
We missed winning that game by inches! inches! OMG i couldnt believe it.
Luv13fan
Bench
My thoughts are...
Crap...
I am annoyed we lost this one. However there are alot of things i like about this game.
Bekkah Brunson, the Offense, the team coheasion... This team is putting a much better product on the floor. So While the loss itself totally and completely and utterly SUX...
I am not too worried.
Crap...
I am annoyed we lost this one. However there are alot of things i like about this game.
Bekkah Brunson, the Offense, the team coheasion... This team is putting a much better product on the floor. So While the loss itself totally and completely and utterly SUX...
I am not too worried.
Purple Reign
Starter
However there are alot of things i like about this game........the Offense
Nothing towards you Luv13fan, but it is the offense that to me is a concern. Just a few things that need to be addressed as we go into game #5 of the season.
CONCERN #1 You can see that the offense is geared towards a high/low system that places a big in the high post, one in the low post with the wings consentrating on getting that ball up high then down low. The team forced so many passes towards the middle. It was way too predictable. It had to lead to as many as 6 or 7 second half turnovers. Speaking of turnovers
CONCERN #2 - The Monarchs are third in the league in turns at 19.5 a game. That is way too high. That was the key to last night's game.
CONCERN #3 - The Monarchs are second to last in Field Goal percentage at 38.6% a game. That to me is based on too many outside shots and not enough of them going down.
CONCERN #4 - When you have your two veteran Hall of Fame players on the bench at crunch time, something is wrong. I don't want to hear about them getting rest. Rest for what. Yo and Ticha needed to be on the floor late in the forth. Why were they on the bench?
Just some concerns, some questions.
Luv13fan
Bench
Good Points
Really good questions...
And I have never been offended by good questions...
So let me quantify...
Concerns 1 and 2-
While your point is very well taken about the turnovers I don't think that is a By-product of the Offense itself. I think the Offense is well concieved. I would prefer to have our post more in the key than Not. DeMya needs to work on her passing touch a little. Bekkah is a better passer than I remembered and Nicole is a good passer as well. So the High Low can be extremely effective if we move. I see the T.O. coming down with better famiarity. I saw a lot of Passes forced that if they had swung the ball around one more pass they would have had an open shot.
But the fact of the matter is they looked 100% better than they have. Now if Nicole would commit to shooting the ball rather than looking to pass first we will be in business.
Concern 3-
I agree to some degree. Bekkah was having her way with the inside. The problem is Phoenix went to a Zone. And IMO that is where we got into a little trouble. And why you saw Lawson at the point at the end of the Game. That will be an on-going problem. But I will get to that in a moment. It is not so much that we over shot from the wing. I think the problem what that we shot relucantly from the wings. And if Kara is gonna be the only person from the wing that will shoot in shooting situations in rhythm, we are gonna get Killed by Zones. Phoenix could not match up with us 1-on-1. Chelsea seems to be more comfortable with shooting and that is a real bonus right now.
Concern 4-
I addressed this Months ago... Which everyone Poo-pooed me. I basically said that Yo and Ticha's roles needed and were probably gonna be reduced and Nicole, Bekkah and Kristen Were gonna have to grow up and assume a much bigger role. I think someone added that Kara and DeMya would have to assume the elderstatesmen roles. (Like Kara is so old) But I digress.
Yo is giving us everything she has... Which is important. But she can barely jump anymore. She gave us really nice minutes. But If I am 100% honest with myself, I think 20 hard minutes is all she really has to give. And I will take that gladly.
Ticha is Ticha... She gives great defense. She makes smart passes. But IMO the right personnel was on the floor in that situation. If we were protecting a lead... Ticha is out there. But going for the Win... Can't have massive over-teams. And Unfortunately Ticha man would definately be sagging. Ticha is playing her role. And I am stunned to say she is playing that role well.
Bottom Line- Kara, Chelsea, Nicole, Bekkah and DeMya need to learn how to deliver in that situation.
We had some good looks. Bekkah got mugged, but no way does she get that call. Nicole should have thought to go right back up instead of dribbling. But you know what. I am more encouraged by that group than not.
I would like to have come away with a win. And I think next time in the same situation we do.
Nothing towards you Luv13fan, but it is the offense that to me is a concern. Just a few things that need to be addressed as we go into game #5 of the season.
CONCERN #1 You can see that the offense is geared towards a high/low system that places a big in the high post, one in the low post with the wings consentrating on getting that ball up high then down low. The team forced so many passes towards the middle. It was way too predictable. It had to lead to as many as 6 or 7 second half turnovers. Speaking of turnovers
CONCERN #2 - The Monarchs are third in the league in turns at 19.5 a game. That is way too high. That was the key to last night's game.
CONCERN #3 - The Monarchs are second to last in Field Goal percentage at 38.6% a game. That to me is based on too many outside shots and not enough of them going down.
CONCERN #4 - When you have your two veteran Hall of Fame players on the bench at crunch time, something is wrong. I don't want to hear about them getting rest. Rest for what. Yo and Ticha needed to be on the floor late in the forth. Why were they on the bench?
Just some concerns, some questions.
Really good questions...
And I have never been offended by good questions...
So let me quantify...
Concerns 1 and 2-
While your point is very well taken about the turnovers I don't think that is a By-product of the Offense itself. I think the Offense is well concieved. I would prefer to have our post more in the key than Not. DeMya needs to work on her passing touch a little. Bekkah is a better passer than I remembered and Nicole is a good passer as well. So the High Low can be extremely effective if we move. I see the T.O. coming down with better famiarity. I saw a lot of Passes forced that if they had swung the ball around one more pass they would have had an open shot.
But the fact of the matter is they looked 100% better than they have. Now if Nicole would commit to shooting the ball rather than looking to pass first we will be in business.
Concern 3-
I agree to some degree. Bekkah was having her way with the inside. The problem is Phoenix went to a Zone. And IMO that is where we got into a little trouble. And why you saw Lawson at the point at the end of the Game. That will be an on-going problem. But I will get to that in a moment. It is not so much that we over shot from the wing. I think the problem what that we shot relucantly from the wings. And if Kara is gonna be the only person from the wing that will shoot in shooting situations in rhythm, we are gonna get Killed by Zones. Phoenix could not match up with us 1-on-1. Chelsea seems to be more comfortable with shooting and that is a real bonus right now.
Concern 4-
I addressed this Months ago... Which everyone Poo-pooed me. I basically said that Yo and Ticha's roles needed and were probably gonna be reduced and Nicole, Bekkah and Kristen Were gonna have to grow up and assume a much bigger role. I think someone added that Kara and DeMya would have to assume the elderstatesmen roles. (Like Kara is so old) But I digress.
Yo is giving us everything she has... Which is important. But she can barely jump anymore. She gave us really nice minutes. But If I am 100% honest with myself, I think 20 hard minutes is all she really has to give. And I will take that gladly.
Ticha is Ticha... She gives great defense. She makes smart passes. But IMO the right personnel was on the floor in that situation. If we were protecting a lead... Ticha is out there. But going for the Win... Can't have massive over-teams. And Unfortunately Ticha man would definately be sagging. Ticha is playing her role. And I am stunned to say she is playing that role well.
Bottom Line- Kara, Chelsea, Nicole, Bekkah and DeMya need to learn how to deliver in that situation.
We had some good looks. Bekkah got mugged, but no way does she get that call. Nicole should have thought to go right back up instead of dribbling. But you know what. I am more encouraged by that group than not.
I would like to have come away with a win. And I think next time in the same situation we do.
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Monty'sBiggestFan
Starter
I’ll add a few thoughts here too..
#1 High/Low isn’t necessarily bad. In the Phx game, at least from what I heard Jason Ross talk about during the stretch of the game I was radio only – that was their intent for sure last night was to exploit what they felt was an area of weakness for Phx. It worked in the first half and Phoenix tried to force the Monarchs back outside more by zoning almost exclusively – we ate that for LUNCH AND DINNER. I think Phoenix made the adjustment at the half or at some point in the 3rd at least to switch their defenses regularly. I’m not sure we countered that well or the players on the floor adjusted to the change all that well. Hence the lack of offensive rhythm and increased turnovers. One of the downsides of losing Taurasi on the floor from our perspective, I think Phx got better defensively – well, minus the Mazzante trade off, she’s less a defender than Taurasi.
#2 Sure the turnovers down the stretch were a problem. I agree with Luv13 that the numbers should come down as the season progresses. I think mdme pointed out earlier this season that many of their turnovers are illegal screens or coming from what they are doing with their screens. And of course tossing the ball somewhere someone on their team isn’t. This is a new offensive system. Boucek keeps saying its going to need to become instinctual for the players and its not yet. If DeMya doesn’t lead this team in turnovers I would be surprised. She has to conversely rank among the leaders on this team in assists….so you have to take the good and the bad with that. New offense or no, DeMya sometimes forces the ball somewhere (when she isn’t holding onto it forever) trying to do more with something she thinks she can make happen than what really is available. Also agree that NikkiP needs to fall out of love with the passing aspect of her game a shade, she needs to shoot the damn ball more or we’re going to see a lot more zone until we get another viable 3pt shooter to complement her or Kara on the floor. I liked seeing more range from Robinson and Newton, would be great to get Powell going like she was in 05.
#3 If that’s the case for our poor shooting, then we’re due to have an up-turn, right? Laws of probability dictate that. I’ll echo again Luv’s thoughts that we are tentative from the wing. My concern coming into this season was our three “best” 3pt shooters were Kara, Nicole and Kim. Nobody else was worth mentioning other than they “could” take shots from the perimeter, they by no means could be considered perimeter threats. I like what I’ve seen from the guards thus far this year, adding Haynie to the mix with Scho and Chelsea – they are making me feel somewhat better about our perimeter game. We should see a helluva lot more zone than we do since and I never have understood why we never see more of it than we do other than we have better interior rebounders than any other team in the league on the offensive glass.
#4 I was absolutely fine with the lineup coach trotted out for the final possession. I was absolutely fine with the play they ran and the options they had off of it. I didn’t notice it, but I’ve been told that Lawson was all by her lonesome on the wing screaming for the ball when it got dumped down to Brunson. I still loved the fact that Brunson had a clean shot to win that game, ala the shot she had to ice the preseason game. That she got herself a second shot (and : cough: took a lot of contact :cough: ) was wonderful. She just missed them and the clock was not our friend by the time she went after the 2nd miss. Yo and Ticha did not “need” to be on the floor IMO. We knew Yo’s role/minutes were going to be reduced –so I’m not sure who poo-pooed that idea. I will stand tall and poo poo any idea however that marginalizes Ticha’s importance to this team and pushes her under a large multi-passenger vehicle for a performance in a series and translates that into a future ability to contribute. Every time. Guaranteed. Ticha’s role isn’t reduced, it might be different but I’m not seeing a reduction, and maybe it needs to be different to get the most of what she brings to the table. That said, I don’t think her being on the bench in the final seconds of that game means anything other than coach drew up a play and she wanted shooters on the floor to execute it. She had 5 excellent passers on the floor, she had her two best perimeter scorers on the floor. She had decent rebounding as well. We shouldn’t have needed defense on the other end and if we did, we might have subbed one or both of them back in, or Newton for that matter. We have options now, we can trot out multiple looks now and count me as thrilled as hell that we do. Would have loved for that to have been the group on the floor in Detroit late when that game was stealable. Having said all that…I did have a “wow” moment when it hit me that both TP and Yo were not only not on the floor, but also were nearly fully dressed in warm-ups. I’m still fine with it if I can wrap my head around what coach was looking for with a particular lineup. If I’m scratching my head, I might have a problem with it. Probably worse tho, if her players are scratching their heads, there might be an ever bigger problem than what I mutter from my living room or seat at ARCO.
I hate losing that game last night and am not quite over it yet, but they’ll get better at the close outs soon.
#1 High/Low isn’t necessarily bad. In the Phx game, at least from what I heard Jason Ross talk about during the stretch of the game I was radio only – that was their intent for sure last night was to exploit what they felt was an area of weakness for Phx. It worked in the first half and Phoenix tried to force the Monarchs back outside more by zoning almost exclusively – we ate that for LUNCH AND DINNER. I think Phoenix made the adjustment at the half or at some point in the 3rd at least to switch their defenses regularly. I’m not sure we countered that well or the players on the floor adjusted to the change all that well. Hence the lack of offensive rhythm and increased turnovers. One of the downsides of losing Taurasi on the floor from our perspective, I think Phx got better defensively – well, minus the Mazzante trade off, she’s less a defender than Taurasi.
#2 Sure the turnovers down the stretch were a problem. I agree with Luv13 that the numbers should come down as the season progresses. I think mdme pointed out earlier this season that many of their turnovers are illegal screens or coming from what they are doing with their screens. And of course tossing the ball somewhere someone on their team isn’t. This is a new offensive system. Boucek keeps saying its going to need to become instinctual for the players and its not yet. If DeMya doesn’t lead this team in turnovers I would be surprised. She has to conversely rank among the leaders on this team in assists….so you have to take the good and the bad with that. New offense or no, DeMya sometimes forces the ball somewhere (when she isn’t holding onto it forever) trying to do more with something she thinks she can make happen than what really is available. Also agree that NikkiP needs to fall out of love with the passing aspect of her game a shade, she needs to shoot the damn ball more or we’re going to see a lot more zone until we get another viable 3pt shooter to complement her or Kara on the floor. I liked seeing more range from Robinson and Newton, would be great to get Powell going like she was in 05.
#3 If that’s the case for our poor shooting, then we’re due to have an up-turn, right? Laws of probability dictate that. I’ll echo again Luv’s thoughts that we are tentative from the wing. My concern coming into this season was our three “best” 3pt shooters were Kara, Nicole and Kim. Nobody else was worth mentioning other than they “could” take shots from the perimeter, they by no means could be considered perimeter threats. I like what I’ve seen from the guards thus far this year, adding Haynie to the mix with Scho and Chelsea – they are making me feel somewhat better about our perimeter game. We should see a helluva lot more zone than we do since and I never have understood why we never see more of it than we do other than we have better interior rebounders than any other team in the league on the offensive glass.
#4 I was absolutely fine with the lineup coach trotted out for the final possession. I was absolutely fine with the play they ran and the options they had off of it. I didn’t notice it, but I’ve been told that Lawson was all by her lonesome on the wing screaming for the ball when it got dumped down to Brunson. I still loved the fact that Brunson had a clean shot to win that game, ala the shot she had to ice the preseason game. That she got herself a second shot (and : cough: took a lot of contact :cough: ) was wonderful. She just missed them and the clock was not our friend by the time she went after the 2nd miss. Yo and Ticha did not “need” to be on the floor IMO. We knew Yo’s role/minutes were going to be reduced –so I’m not sure who poo-pooed that idea. I will stand tall and poo poo any idea however that marginalizes Ticha’s importance to this team and pushes her under a large multi-passenger vehicle for a performance in a series and translates that into a future ability to contribute. Every time. Guaranteed. Ticha’s role isn’t reduced, it might be different but I’m not seeing a reduction, and maybe it needs to be different to get the most of what she brings to the table. That said, I don’t think her being on the bench in the final seconds of that game means anything other than coach drew up a play and she wanted shooters on the floor to execute it. She had 5 excellent passers on the floor, she had her two best perimeter scorers on the floor. She had decent rebounding as well. We shouldn’t have needed defense on the other end and if we did, we might have subbed one or both of them back in, or Newton for that matter. We have options now, we can trot out multiple looks now and count me as thrilled as hell that we do. Would have loved for that to have been the group on the floor in Detroit late when that game was stealable. Having said all that…I did have a “wow” moment when it hit me that both TP and Yo were not only not on the floor, but also were nearly fully dressed in warm-ups. I’m still fine with it if I can wrap my head around what coach was looking for with a particular lineup. If I’m scratching my head, I might have a problem with it. Probably worse tho, if her players are scratching their heads, there might be an ever bigger problem than what I mutter from my living room or seat at ARCO.
I hate losing that game last night and am not quite over it yet, but they’ll get better at the close outs soon.
I'd like to echo some of Luv13fan's comments about the final line up on the floor. I think the line up was fine considering that Bek was having quite a game and De Mya had some key plays down the stretch. Kara and Nicole I thought had to be there because of their defense stretching ability (not to mention their offense). I would have wanted Yo to be there since she would most likely "receive" a call for the same contact that Bek had. But then, I don't know who I'd take out (De Mya or Bek), as for the fifth member in the line up, don't know who we could have placed there, Ticha was an option (great passer) but was not actually having a great game last night (and was largely running the offense in the 3rd when we got mugged). Haynie did not have a good offensive night, but did make some key passes and plays during the 4th (2 of her 5 assists). Didn't know why chelsea was chosen but maybe she was there because she had been offensively "productive".
I think the offense is a work in progress but I think I'd agree that I like what I am seeing (even if only in spurts) compared with last year. The TO's should cut itself down as familiarity with the new offense grows (and we set cleaner screens). I think the line up was justifiable and certainly better than the last time in detroit when our hottest offensive player was not on the floor when we were down by 3.
In the end, Phx outhustled us and should serve as a reminder that a wounded tiger might be more dangerous than a full strength one.
I think the offense is a work in progress but I think I'd agree that I like what I am seeing (even if only in spurts) compared with last year. The TO's should cut itself down as familiarity with the new offense grows (and we set cleaner screens). I think the line up was justifiable and certainly better than the last time in detroit when our hottest offensive player was not on the floor when we were down by 3.
In the end, Phx outhustled us and should serve as a reminder that a wounded tiger might be more dangerous than a full strength one.
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