sactowndog
All-Star
Randle is a black hole and like ZBo never passes out of the post. For a team with good shooters that is a problem.
Possible Free agents
- Thread starter sactowndog
- Start date
Randle is a black hole and like ZBo never passes out of the post. For a team with good shooters that is a problem.
OffTheWallJamal
Starter
No, he is an RFA.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
you can label him a black hole all ready?
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Re: Randle - I can see both sides. On one hand, he does have a usage rate of 25%. He doesn't shoot 3s or protect the rim. On the other hand, I'm not sure the Z-Bo comparisons are apt. Randle seems to be getting most of his shots in a position to finish, not from sitting forever in the post. According to basketball-reference, 56.5% of his two point shots are assisted (and 54.9% are within three feet of the rim). Contrast that to Z-Bo, who is assisted on only 38.3% of his shots (23% of which are within three feet). Admittedly, I don't watch the Lakers much, but these do not appear to be similar players at the moment.
(Also, this is going to offend the sensibilities of some here, but Lonzo Ball appears to be helping Randle's game quite a bit. Of the two-man combinations with Randle, only Randle/Ball net over 6 points/100 possessions, the remainder are three or fewer (well, IT/Randle does as well, in a much smaller sample). It seems to me Ball is getting Randle the ball in a position to finish efficiently. Could Fox and Bogi do the same here?)
(Also, this is going to offend the sensibilities of some here, but Lonzo Ball appears to be helping Randle's game quite a bit. Of the two-man combinations with Randle, only Randle/Ball net over 6 points/100 possessions, the remainder are three or fewer (well, IT/Randle does as well, in a much smaller sample). It seems to me Ball is getting Randle the ball in a position to finish efficiently. Could Fox and Bogi do the same here?)
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Randle is 23 years old, he still has plenty of time to improve his game and he has done so every season. With the Kings staff showing the ability to develop their players, I would have high hopes that he would be a positive asset to the Kings if he chose to sign here.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Is there still going to be a concern that we won’t be playing on even ground due to the franchise’s rep? It’s the difficult part of being a Kings fan.. Not only thinking the middle market doesn’t work in the franchise’s favor, but also the reputation, which has led to a “tax” or surcharge in previous years. might this still be in place to get a Hezonja here over competition?
Hopefully in the coming years we are able to put that behind us, and I’m able to look forward to FA on even ground with other fanbases
Hopefully in the coming years we are able to put that behind us, and I’m able to look forward to FA on even ground with other fanbases
The Kings are not a FA destination. We had to pay 40yearold Vince Carter $8million to come here while the rest of the league would've barely paid him league minimum, around $1.5million/year. We also gave 36yearold Zach Randolph a 2 year $24mpy contract, while the rest of the league wouldn't spend a dime over their MLE. He'd get less than 6mpy on any other team, but the Kings were forced to pay $12mpy.
If we have to overpay for these 35yearold+ vets WELL OVER market price, imagine us with 25yearolds? Kings are not a FA destination. We are still a dysfunctional franchise until we're not. No top player will even consider us until we find at least a franchise player. You have to remember.. Wes Matthews and Danny Green took smaller contracts to go elsewhere while we still had Cousins and Gay under contract. There's no one on our current roster who's anywhere remotely as good as them.
So for the Kings to be on ground with other franchises, they'll need to prove that they are no longer idiots, and also that they are at least a top 4 seed in the NBA.
KingsSelecao
Bench
I think the Kings are going after Randle hard.
He’s better than Nurkic and he would be cheaper than Gordon. Even though, I would offer Gordon the Max. His 3 is coming around. Gordon’s all around game is better than Randle or Nurkic.
He’s better than Nurkic and he would be cheaper than Gordon. Even though, I would offer Gordon the Max. His 3 is coming around. Gordon’s all around game is better than Randle or Nurkic.
kingsfan1984
Starter
Stronglu disagree we should MAX a player on Nurkics tier. We would be far better off long term swapping that cap space for assets
Did you just say that no one on our roster is as good as Matthews and Danny Green? If so, just have to disagree with this. Green is a system player and no different in his skill set than Temple......and I'm not even going to look up shooting %'s if they are skewed to Green, it doesn't matter. Same skill set. I'll keep it simple with Matthews...once upon a time it might have been true that he's better than anyone on our roster but just picking Bogdanovich as a guy better than Matthews inmost facets of the game currently.
It's going to be tough to fit Randle into the modern NBA if he doesn't have a 3 point shot. The team will have to be built around him specifically because he's not big enough to be a center. I don't know about you guys but I'm not constructing a roster around Julius Randle.
I don't think Nurkic is much better than WCS. He rebounds a bit better and is comparable on defense but he turns the ball over a lot and fouls a lot more. Plus he's inefficient for a guy who takes most of his shots at the rim. I'm not a fan at all and I definitely wouldn't give him a fat contract for a mild upgrade or a potential tread water type of upgrade in performance.
I don't think Nurkic is much better than WCS. He rebounds a bit better and is comparable on defense but he turns the ball over a lot and fouls a lot more. Plus he's inefficient for a guy who takes most of his shots at the rim. I'm not a fan at all and I definitely wouldn't give him a fat contract for a mild upgrade or a potential tread water type of upgrade in performance.
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No, I'm saying we have no one as good as Cousins nor Gay on this roster. When we had Cousins and Gay, we couldn't even get C caliber free agents like Matthews and Green. What makes anyone think we have a legitimate shot the A and B talent freeagents with the roster we have now?
kingsfan1984
Starter
I think the trouble with signing free agents has a few factors and over the last few years all of tjose have been at all time lows for us.
1) management disfuntion
2) locker room chemistry
3) coaching stability
4) bad environment for development
5) small market
6) roster talent
7) reputation
8) etc
Id argue the plethera of bad ratings in these areas is the cause of the free agent difficulties and much more than not being distination city.
This is good news as we can change all the other items but stuck with team in Sacramento obviously.
Sactown is on the upswing as a city and it is next to everything (mountains/bay area) as well as being lightyears ahead of many places in regards to weather.
Cousins and Gay being here were not enough especially when you factor in all the turmoil going on at the time.
I think there is reason to believe we will improve in free agency over the next few years after being at rock bottom for so long.
Mike
Bench
It depends on what kind of team you want to build. At the minute everyone wants to field teams of shooters on the perimeter that don't really play defense or at least commit to it. Now I'm not suggesting that we should go against the grain and field a team that is defense first, but not every player on the court needs to call the perimeter home.
For me there is still a place in the league for players like Randle, but the team potentially has to account for him not being a stretch four, or at least he isn't a stretch four at this point. I compare Randle to Paul Millsap and he didn't really start shooting treys until he moved to Atlanta after spending seven seasons in Utah. If you look at Randle stats he has made some treys, so there's no reason why he couldn't develop like Millsap did in the right situation. With that said, I wouldn't overpay him, nor would I bring him in to play center.
As for Nurkic, I think offering him a big contract would be a mistake. He doesn't strike me as someone that will ascend and become one of the premier centers. I see him as someone that will be solid but not spectacular. Kinda like Nikola Vucevic, but where Nurkic is a bit better shot blocker, Vucevic is a better scorer. But that's the caliber of player we would be getting. If we paid him too much he might be difficult to move if things didn't work out.
I agree and I really like this optimism outlook. Kings are slowly improving in a lot of areas. We now have a well-respected coach in Joerger which is a big step. What the Kings are seriously lacking right now is a franchise player. Not many stars are going to come to a team without a direction already in place. We don't have the luxury of the Knicks with being in NYC, so it means we have to work 2x as hard as them. If we want to be a top FA destination in the next 3-4 years, we'll have to put together what Philadelphia has right now. It's going to be difficult. 76ers aren't legitimate contenders this year, but they're a team who has potential to go deep into the playoffs in the next 5 years. I wouldn't be shocked if they were able to sign Lebron, George, Paul, or Cousins next year.
It's going to be hard, but it's doable. This is why I value the 2018 draft pick so much. This draft could instantly accelerate the Kings 3 years forward, or put us 3 years back. This draft pick could mean the difference between picking Karl-Anthony Towns or WCS. I don't mean to derail this into another LIN thread, but it really does all tie together.
CelticsFan
Bench
It's funny you say that. Yesterday espn insider ran an article of the top 25 players under 25. I don't have the subscription but I believe the top 5 were skilled bigs.
Mike
Bench
I suspect the top five would be Giannis, Towns, Embiid, Porzingis and Davis.
Obviously having a player like them is ideal, but they are all special players that their teams found in the draft. That caliber of player doesn't generally become available in free agency, and if they did they probably wouldn't consider coming to Sacramento.
So that leaves a team like Sacramento with looking at the next tier down or couple of tiers down. Players like Randle and Okafor are likely to be available because teams don't want to pay them big money because they aren't "unicorns" and they don't consider them to be a fit for the modern NBA. But does that mean that a team couldn't sign one of them and start them? Or even feature one of them? Of course not. Not every team has to conform to what everyone else is doing. Besides, Randle hasn't been tasked with shooting treys with the Lakers, just like Millsap wasn't tasked to shoot them with Utah, but with Atlanta and Denver he has been shooting them. So perhaps Randle can shoot them and help a team with floor spacing, and if he can't, he's still got enough of an offensive skill set to score but the team would have to account for that shortcoming.
Like I said, it depends on what kind of team you want to build. Do we want to conform to the norm, or are we willing to take a risk on someone that is being shunned (e.g. Okafor) and is not a "modern" player or "unicorn" (e.g. Randle)? Sometimes it is worth taking a calculated risk when rebuilding and not doing what everyone else is or has done.
There is a player nobody mentions in free agency, but I would not be surprised if Vlade tries to get him. He is called Nemanja Bjelica from Timberwolves.
He came to NBA as an MVP of a Euroleague, but since then he really struggled with injuries and his character that he is not too aggressive. He is a team first player, stretch four or a three, when he was younger he played even as a point guard. Really unselfish player who makes shots in high percentage, does not take bad shots, good rebounder and good passer. He would give Kings a lot of those small things that can be game changer, really an X factor type of player.
His value was really low, but since Jimmy Butler got injured, he took a starting small forward spot and plays really good, even scored 30 against Boston.
His age is a small concern, as he is 30 this year, and that does not go with Kings young core, but again he is such a valuable team player, that I wouldn't be surprised if Vlade tries to sign him.
He came to NBA as an MVP of a Euroleague, but since then he really struggled with injuries and his character that he is not too aggressive. He is a team first player, stretch four or a three, when he was younger he played even as a point guard. Really unselfish player who makes shots in high percentage, does not take bad shots, good rebounder and good passer. He would give Kings a lot of those small things that can be game changer, really an X factor type of player.
His value was really low, but since Jimmy Butler got injured, he took a starting small forward spot and plays really good, even scored 30 against Boston.
His age is a small concern, as he is 30 this year, and that does not go with Kings young core, but again he is such a valuable team player, that I wouldn't be surprised if Vlade tries to sign him.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Didn’t realize that Bjelica is a FA this summer. Definitely a chance.
upinsmoke
All-Star
I would make an offer on Randle, at the very least we would be making L.A pay up. He could fit in nicely here with a front line combination of WCS, Skal, and Giles. Zbo could really help him unlock any untapped potential too as they play a similar old school game. Follow that up with drafting M. Bridges and we would have some muscle for the opposition to deal with.
KingsSelecao
Bench
Offer the max to Gordon. If Orlando matches look towards Randle or Nurkic.
Sign Kanter for Rim Protection
Draft Porter
Sign Kanter for Rim Protection
Draft Porter
By the time Orlando matches the contract Nurkic will be gone.
I still wanna know why people think Randle would entertain coming here when he can go home to Dallas
I still wanna know why people think Randle would entertain coming here when he can go home to Dallas
ParniValjak
All-Star
WTF?!
Yeah, there's a weird Randle bias around here. Maybe because he's a Laker? But has been straight hoopin' for 3 months and is normally a guy that wouldn't come close to being available. But because the Lakers are potentially very stupid and greedy, they're going to try and get George and LeBron to commit first and let an extremely talented player walk. 18-9-3 on 61% TS doesn't grow on trees.
Is Aaron Gordon worth the max? Isn't his numbers on defensive bad? I guess we might have to offer it to get him ala Otto Porter but I don't know. I wouldn't mind Nurkic but not at the max. Would not offer Randle the max....I guess similar to Nurkic in that he could bring something to this team but before doing any of these big contracts, it's imperative that Sac knows what it has in Giles. If Giles is the real deal, and they seem to think he is, the need for a big man on a huge contract is lessened. Focus on fixing that SF position because we are very weak there.
Max or near-max contracts for non-max players doesn’t seem to work out well for teams in the long term. If you pay max money - you better get an All Star, a leader, and someone who makes their teammates better. The Kings are better off poaching talent and assets from teams seeking to avoid the luxury tax.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Note of them are worth the max. At least with Otto Porter you could understand the logic behind it. A player who has improved in every season he has been in the league. He was a borderline all-star in his 4th year. Shot the ball from 3 really well, addressed the position of need for the team, is a very good two way player and was in the age bracket where he could provide "veteranish" leadership but still be young enough to grow with the team.
The 3 guys getting mentioned are not worth the max for varying reasons (not that Porter was but at least you could see the logic). Gordon is an undersized PF who is not a great rebounder or a defender for his position. People hoping he plays the 3 are just living a pipe dream here. His shot has also been hit and miss. Of the 3, he is the one most likely to get the max but it would be such a dumb move, especially for the Kings.
Nurkic would be very good get but then you are getting someone who has historically missed a log of games due to leg injuries. He is a big dude, not particularly mobile so those legs will only get worse as the years go on. Ig you get him, then you need to make sure that your PF is a stud defender. Still not worth the max deal.
Randle has fans within the organization. Coach is a big fan. I can see the attraction there. Solid scorer, solid rebounder, solid passer, doesn't spread the floor all that well and is not a great defender. Not worth the max but someone will be dumb enough to drop it on his probably.
All these guys address 1 or maybe two areas of need but none of them are great fits and none of them address multiple things that Kings need addressing.
Primarily, the Kings need a primary #1 scoring weapon, a tremendous rebounder and a great defender who can anchor the defense. A lot will depend on who the Kings draft. For example, if Kings strike it lucky and get Ayton in the draft then the scoring and the rebounding part is taken care of in a large part. Then the player you want at PF is someone who is a very good defender, rim protector, solid if not better rebounder who can spread the floor. You could get away with someone like Skal in time. Defensively he is a work in progress but there is a shot blocking component and spreading the floor component to his game that is interesting. You could get away with WCS if he caan extend that range on his jumper and be respected for it.
KingsSelecao
Bench
How is Gordon not worth the max?. 23 years old. Has improved incrementally every single year. Has a decent 3 pt shot. Will easily be a 20-10 guy next year. WCS sucks. Plain and Simple. He has a lot more issues than a broken jumper. WCS probably won’t even be on the Kings next year.
